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[Discworld] Who Watches The Watchmen In The Watch?

124

Posts

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Yeah, I just saw a description of the series that say Sybil is a vigilante, Corporal Angua has to teach the new naive Constable Carrot and describes Cheery as "native".

    So I'm thinking they're changing quite a bit.

    At that point, I'm wondering why even bother with the Discworld setting

    Name recognition? Sure, but it's not like procedural cop shows are a struggling genre

    AridholJuliusElvenshae
  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    Well if you're gonna do a comedy cop show set in a fantasy world and you have the Discworld license...seems kind of a waste not to do it.

    FencingsaxCouscous
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    I don't think I can watch a show that just uses the character names and creates completely different people.

    I prefer a straight retelling.

    Pretty disappointed really.

    ChiselphaneSmrtnik[Expletive deleted]MorganVCaedwyrJulius
  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    Much of that casting has me scratching my head, particularly Carrot and Sybil. Angua too, who I think should be Amazonian but instead is quite elfin?

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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    Well maybe they want the contrast with her werewolf form.

  • ChiselphaneChiselphane Registered User regular
    Aridhol wrote: »
    I don't think I can watch a show that just uses the character names and creates completely different people.

    I prefer a straight retelling.

    Pretty disappointed really.

    I'm trying to keep an open mind but yes it will be really frustrating to watch if they are changing things to the degree they're hinting at.

  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Also, describing Carcer as wronged is... huh.

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    Rhesus Positive
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Sybil to me will always be the proverbial full bodied operatic Valkyrie style matriarch who kills you with kindness.

    A new young vigilante Sybil (obviously in direct opposition to Vimes) is so wrong I think it will legit turn me off the show.

    GnizmoFencingsaxSmrtnikBurnageMonwynChiselphaneDanHibikiCrimson KingAntinumericCaedwyrElvenshae
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited September 12
    Aridhol wrote: »
    I don't think I can watch a show that just uses the character names and creates completely different people.

    I prefer a straight retelling.

    Pretty disappointed really.

    I'd rather adaptations actually be adaptations and make changes that are necessary for the medium to translate well. Pratchett's style in particular depends a lot on narrator humor and internal monologues (or narrator saying what the character is thinking) for effect.

    Also making Carcer a regular part of the city before the events in Night Watch is a positive change imo, since that's basically the 'lore' of Night Watch.

    EDIT: The only major issue I have so far is them drastically changing Sybil's body type, since it would have been a good opportunity for diversity there.

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  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Adaptations generally don't change who a character is and keep the name.

    Anyway, that's my 2 cents and it's gonna be a personal perspective thing at the end of the day.

  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    Aridhol wrote: »
    I don't think I can watch a show that just uses the character names and creates completely different people.

    I prefer a straight retelling.

    Pretty disappointed really.

    I don't mind if they take these characters and make new stories with them. It'd be nice to have a Guards! Guards! adaptation, but new tales can be fun too.

    But I would like these characters to be these characters.

    FencingsaxtynicSmrtnikMr_RosehonovereShadowenmonikerBlackDragon480ChiselphaneBoomerAang SquadMorganVCaedwyrJuliusElvenshae
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    DarkPrimus wrote: »
    What Carrot is, is sincere.
    I always pictured Carrot as Paul Gross in Due South. Honest, sincere, trusting. But also incredibly good at his job. The type who will 'lend' the begger twenty dollars so he can get a shave and a change of clothes so he can get a job, he'll pay him back honest. Then sheer charisma and narrative convention ensure that his faith is paid off.

    If he joined a Watch where Angua was already a member, I can see her working on Carrots naivete. but I can also see that Carrot guilting a bar full of drunken fighting dwarfs into writing home to their dear old mum like they promised, while she looks on in astonishment.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    Rhesus PositiveMr_RosemrondeauShadowentynicStempyTofystedethElvenshae
  • WatcherWatcher Registered User regular
    I want this to be good, I do. But, I fear that it just won't match my imagination well enough. Yes, the curmudgeon shouting "The books were better!" I try to view books and movies as different, and I'm working on it, but, I just don't want to mess with what I've worked out in my noggin with these really fun books. I'll continue to read the thread in hopes that most folks enjoy it, then maybe sneak over and watch when it gets rolling.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Yeah, this is one property I know I'm too into to forgive even entirely practical changes, let alone minor stuff. I'm fine with IPs I don't care about so much.
    They added a bunch of elves to the Battle of Helms Deep? That fine, it widens the scope of things. Cut half the explanations from the Harry Potter films? Well how did you expect to fit them in a movie? Change Angua in Going Postal so she's fine with showing off that she's a werewolf to catch someone? Burn the Heretic.

    I'm still having trouble with Good Omens pronouncing Crowley's name like the bird instead of to rhyme with cow. Presumable Gaimen would have mentioned it if he felt it was wrong, but that doesn't fix my head-canon.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
  • knitdanknitdan Oh no Too much hunnyRegistered User regular
    I’d be happy with giving Angua some actual characterization because tbh what she gets in the books is woefully thin in comparison to even say, Nobby Nobbs or his partner Sgt Fat-Dumb-and-Racist-and-That’s-All-I-Recall-About-Him

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    knitdan wrote: »
    I’d be happy with giving Angua some actual characterization because tbh what she gets in the books is woefully thin in comparison to even say, Nobby Nobbs or his partner Sgt Fat-Dumb-and-Racist-and-That’s-All-I-Recall-About-Him

    One of nature's Sergeants.

    ShadowenFencingsaxAridholNobeardJuliusElvenshae
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    You're thinking of Colon

    ShadowenFencingsaxtynicAridholknitdanNobeardElvenshae
  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    I suppose Colon wouldn't really fly today without heavy rewrites. Even Pratchett had to write the last Watch book (though presumably only he and his family knew it was going to be the last Watch book, and that's assuming even they did) with Colon
    finally getting the fuck over his racism by literally being possessed by the most marginalized minority on the Disc for most of his page time.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Colon was never malicious racist/bigoted, he was lazy racist/bigoted. He always took the easiest option, and that was to echo whatever Everybody Knows About X Species/Race/Gender, as taught in the higher education facility of the nearest pub.

    He had to be forced to work with Dwarfs/Trolls etc, but he got over it when he was. He was just never ever going to change his base assumptions on his own.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    Rhesus PositiveWatcherJuliusElvenshae
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Colon was never malicious racist/bigoted, he was lazy racist/bigoted. He always took the easiest option, and that was to echo whatever Everybody Knows About X Species/Race/Gender, as taught in the higher education facility of the nearest pub.

    He had to be forced to work with Dwarfs/Trolls etc, but he got over it when he was. He was just never ever going to change his base assumptions on his own.

    He always struck me as a combination of Archie Bunker and generic Boston/ Chicago/ New York/ London donut focused copper.

    ____ people are good for nothin' stereotypes, exceptin' my dear friend who's one of the good ones.

    ChiselphaneAridholElvenshae
  • SpaffySpaffy Fuck the Zero Registered User regular
    edited September 12
    Shadowen wrote: »
    I suppose Colon wouldn't really fly today without heavy rewrites. Even Pratchett had to write the last Watch book (though presumably only he and his family knew it was going to be the last Watch book, and that's assuming even they did) with Colon
    finally getting the fuck over his racism by literally being possessed by the most marginalized minority on the Disc for most of his page time.

    I think Colon would fly fine. The whole point of the character is that he's always wrong.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Yeah, his stupidity is a huge part of the character (and the racism.)

    monikerDarkPrimusNobeardElvenshae
  • PhotosaurusPhotosaurus Registered User regular
    And doesn't Vimes chew him out for it pretty early on in the series? Over a comment about... I want to say dwarves? Klatchians?

    Honestly, I don't see how you do Nobby without Colon, and without those two it's barely a Watch series at all.

    "If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
    DanHibikiFencingsaxDevoutlyApatheticAridholmonikerNobeardElvenshae
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    you people act like Brooklyn 99 doesn't exist. It's basically the exact same setup but with slightly fewer fantasy characters.

  • ChiselphaneChiselphane Registered User regular
    DanHibiki wrote: »
    you people act like Brooklyn 99 doesn't exist. It's basically the exact same setup but with slightly fewer fantasy characters.

    Who you callin ‘you people’, Fred

    AridholmonikerMorganVJuliusElvenshae
  • WearingglassesWearingglasses Of the friendly neighborhood variety Registered User regular
    Colon and Nobbs as Scully and Hitchcock?

    ... Yeah, that can track.

    monikerTofystedethMcFodderLindJandaruThorn413
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I mean, it's a very common cop show trope

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    I mean, it's a very common cop show trope

    they were designed to be familiar stock characters, it would almost be hard to have a cop show without them (or equivalent).

    FencingsaxDevoutlyApatheticmonikerChiselphaneAridholRhesus PositiveNobeardElvenshae
  • BursarBursar Hee Noooo! Registered User regular
    I think the real question to ask is who they're casting as CMOT Dibbler.

    It ain't Ankh-Morpork without them sausages inna bun, and we all know it.

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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure that their introductions are along the lines of "there's one in every squad"
    And doesn't Vimes chew him out for it pretty early on in the series? Over a comment about... I want to say dwarves? Klatchians?

    Klatchians, in Jingo

    Which also has the brilliant scene where Colon's trying to fit in with a group of Klatchians later on, using his knowledge that everyone knows about Klatchians
    "Why would I want to get on a camel? I'm a plumber... I mean, the damn things spit and they're a devil to get upstairs with my tool box...

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  • DrascinDrascin Registered User regular
    And doesn't Vimes chew him out for it pretty early on in the series? Over a comment about... I want to say dwarves? Klatchians?

    Honestly, I don't see how you do Nobby without Colon, and without those two it's barely a Watch series at all.

    Colon gets a lot of moments to progressively unlearn his racism. He starts racist against damn near fucking everything, but via interacting with people he ends up losing pretty much all his racism against dwarves, trolls, klatchians, and etcetera.

    Hell, Vimes starts up pretty racist against a lot of classes. He gets multiple callouts about dwarves, trolls, and undead. Even Carrot needs Angua to yell at him about female dwarves. Prejudice is kind of a theme in Watch books, is what I'm getting at.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I'm pretty sure that their introductions are along the lines of "there's one in every squad"
    And doesn't Vimes chew him out for it pretty early on in the series? Over a comment about... I want to say dwarves? Klatchians?

    Klatchians, in Jingo

    And that's a great example of how he can be made to change. He uses a slur, gets told not to use that word again, and doesn't. Not because he realises it's wrong (what's wrong with it? They have got towels on their heads, stands to reason), but because Mister Vimes told him not to. He always takes the path of least resistance in life, and the path that involves using that word now has a lot of resistance in the form of Mister Vimes being angry with him, so he won't do it again.
    He stops calling dwarves 'gritsuckers' because in the present company that would involve axes at knee height, which would count as suicide under Ankh-Morpork law.

    He's turned into a decent copper (not a great copper, but one with uses) because being a bad copper would simply be more trouble than it's worth in the face of the likes of Vimes and Carrot.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    Rhesus PositiveMorganVStempyElvenshae
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    Yeah, these changes bug me. Cherry as Non-Binary rather than Trans* sticks out, and making Carcer black is... uhhh. Seems iffy, frankly? No complaints iwth Sybil being black (Hell, Vimes being black would have been fine), but i do agree with having issue with the a: being young, and b: being not opera build.

    Consider me going "Hrrrrrmmmm" at things heavily.

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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    edited September 13
    Every time I hear something else about the series it replaces another plank on the Ship of Theseus

    It might get to the point where I can just enjoy it as its own IP, rather than as a Discworld thing

    Rhesus Positive on
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  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Drascin wrote: »
    And doesn't Vimes chew him out for it pretty early on in the series? Over a comment about... I want to say dwarves? Klatchians?

    Honestly, I don't see how you do Nobby without Colon, and without those two it's barely a Watch series at all.

    Colon gets a lot of moments to progressively unlearn his racism. He starts racist against damn near fucking everything, but via interacting with people he ends up losing pretty much all his racism against dwarves, trolls, klatchians, and etcetera.

    Hell, Vimes starts up pretty racist against a lot of classes. He gets multiple callouts about dwarves, trolls, and undead. Even Carrot needs Angua to yell at him about female dwarves. Prejudice is kind of a theme in Watch books, is what I'm getting at.

    Colon in that regards reminds me of Witch-finder Sergeant Shadwell, who is racist towards all southerners, and by inference is standing on the North Pole.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    It's not that malicious, though. He's just someone who learnt about other races and cultures to the level of primary school learning about a country (everything you need to know summarised in one cartoon picture. Africa = tribes with spears, Egypt = Pyramids and Walking Like An Egyption, Japan = everyone wears kimonos, etc) and never bothered to learn any more than that because he didn't need to.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    DevoutlyApatheticNobeardElvenshae
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    It's not that malicious, though. He's just someone who learnt about other races and cultures to the level of primary school learning about a country (everything you need to know summarised in one cartoon picture. Africa = tribes with spears, Egypt = Pyramids and Walking Like An Egyption, Japan = everyone wears kimonos, etc) and never bothered to learn any more than that because he didn't need to.

    Yeah, Colon is the guy who was told that absolutely outrageous stuff about folks not like him and just believed it, because stupid. Not like the actively malicious stuff, mostly, but the "Oh they're totally different than us!" stuff. It is, generally, not really mean spirited but he can shade that way depending on the current mood. He kinda feels like an "uneducated masses" stand in.

    It is kind of funny as Colon has practically no redeeming qualities through most of the book. His lack of active malice is about the nicest thing you can say about him. Yet he doesn't tend to inspire hatred from most folks I know. Kinda weird.

  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    It's probably because we all know one

    AntinumericElvenshae
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    The only issue I have with Angua showing Carrot the ropes is that Carrot arriving is the turning point for the Watch where they stop being a nearly useless organization and Angua is too competent for the old watch.

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    I like the way that the books consistently show what a pre-industrial/communication world was like. Up until about halfway there's almost no communication or travel faster than horses (besides magic, but that's more trouble than it's worth for most of the time), so most people live their entire lives within ten or twenty miles of where they were born, apart from the migrations to the Big City to seek theirsomeone else's fortune. No newspapers, no mass-produced books, and no standard of education so rumour was the main way people learned about the world beyond the horizon (usually passed through a sieve of alcohol in the pub to boot), and that was all someone else's problem anyway.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
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