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I suspect there's some shaky reporting there and it would default to the unofficial previous counts?
The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
Guys honestly I think you might want to just go ahead and bring UN observers in for 2020 because holy fucking shit an entire county in Florida just got disenfranchised over a two minute deadline after a solid week of every bullshit delay tactic possible being thrown at them.
International observers in US elections have become a thing lately. 2016 was watched by the OAS and OSCE, who had about five hundred observers across the country. They also had a few dozen in 2012 when things weren't quite as obviously shenanigannish.
Shame we have 5 shitheads on SCOTUS because an honest court would call horseshit on FL's count deadline. Next Congress isn't even seated until January fucking 8th, why the fuck do we have a shitty setup that ignores votes because some impatient fuckers can't even wait two weeks for the count to finish.
Shame we have 5 shitheads on SCOTUS because an honest court would call horseshit on FL's count deadline. Next Congress isn't even seated until January fucking 8th, why the fuck do we have a shitty setup that ignores votes because some impatient fuckers can't even wait two weeks for the count to finish.
This is the part I really don't understand. There's no rush. Right? Are there actual legitimate reasons why we need to make sure the count is finished months in advance?
I can't think of any really legitimate reasons. The actual reason is a mix of "we demand instant gratification for everything and can't function without same-day resolutions" coupled with "if we stop talking about this it benefits Republicans."
Shame we have 5 shitheads on SCOTUS because an honest court would call horseshit on FL's count deadline. Next Congress isn't even seated until January fucking 8th, why the fuck do we have a shitty setup that ignores votes because some impatient fuckers can't even wait two weeks for the count to finish.
This is the part I really don't understand. There's no rush. Right? Are there actual legitimate reasons why we need to make sure the count is finished months in advance?
There are certainly reasons to have counting done in a prompt and timely manner, but none of them outweigh doing the thing properly.
Lame-duck sessions are certainly useful when everyone is acting honestly but lol. They should just be tightened up significantly. Plenty of room for recounts without having unaccountable dead men in charge for so long.
Lame-duck sessions are certainly useful when everyone is acting honestly but lol. They should just be tightened up significantly. Plenty of room for recounts without having unaccountable dead men in charge for so long.
Lame-duck sessions are certainly useful when everyone is acting honestly but lol. They should just be tightened up significantly. Plenty of room for recounts without having unaccountable dead men in charge for so long.
In what possible way?
Like you mention, gives us time to do recounts, make sure all the mail-ins are ready to go etc. Additionally, I think there's value in having a national period to process election results before they take effect.
That said, none of that necessitates a lame duck session as long as the one we have.
Yeah, nowadays the only thing they seem to be used for is doing as much damage as possible if the wrong party manages to eke out a win despite the outgoing legislature's best efforts. There hasn't been good faith there in awhile, and plenty of places operate just fine with no active legislature between an election and the seating of the next government.
Lame-duck sessions are certainly useful when everyone is acting honestly but lol. They should just be tightened up significantly. Plenty of room for recounts without having unaccountable dead men in charge for so long.
In what possible way?
Like you mention, gives us time to do recounts, make sure all the mail-ins are ready to go etc. Additionally, I think there's value in having a national period to process election results before they take effect.
That said, none of that necessitates a lame duck session as long as the one we have.
Or you could just suspend the legislature while you count the votes. Works quite well, and avoid a lot of problems.
Lame-duck sessions are certainly useful when everyone is acting honestly but lol. They should just be tightened up significantly. Plenty of room for recounts without having unaccountable dead men in charge for so long.
In what possible way?
Like you mention, gives us time to do recounts, make sure all the mail-ins are ready to go etc. Additionally, I think there's value in having a national period to process election results before they take effect.
That said, none of that necessitates a lame duck session as long as the one we have.
Or you could just suspend the legislature while you count the votes. Works quite well, and avoid a lot of problems.
You could. You can't suspend every office you have elections for though.
MSNBC are reporting that Boward County missed the recount deadline by 2 minutes and that therefore none of their votes will be counted towards the final tally.
Counties have 12 days to certify their results (Sunday). That's the final tally.
All the county reporting deadlines to date are referred to as "unofficial returns."
The statute defining recount procedures says they shall report the initial unofficial results as the new unofficial results, include an explanation of why they missed the deadline, and shall complete the recount and certify results per 102.112 (linked above; 12 days hence).
Shame we have 5 shitheads on SCOTUS because an honest court would call horseshit on FL's count deadline. Next Congress isn't even seated until January fucking 8th, why the fuck do we have a shitty setup that ignores votes because some impatient fuckers can't even wait two weeks for the count to finish.
This is the part I really don't understand. There's no rush. Right? Are there actual legitimate reasons why we need to make sure the count is finished months in advance?
There is at least an argument that a whole lot of prep work goes into a new Presidential administration (errr...current administration excluded.) That is rather untrue with Governors and way way way less true for Senators.
Lame-duck sessions are certainly useful when everyone is acting honestly but lol. They should just be tightened up significantly. Plenty of room for recounts without having unaccountable dead men in charge for so long.
In what possible way?
Like you mention, gives us time to do recounts, make sure all the mail-ins are ready to go etc. Additionally, I think there's value in having a national period to process election results before they take effect.
That said, none of that necessitates a lame duck session as long as the one we have.
Or you could just suspend the legislature while you count the votes. Works quite well, and avoid a lot of problems.
You could. You can't suspend every office you have elections for though.
That's what public servants are for: to run the day to day operations of government.
Lame-duck sessions are certainly useful when everyone is acting honestly but lol. They should just be tightened up significantly. Plenty of room for recounts without having unaccountable dead men in charge for so long.
In what possible way?
Transition periods lasting more than a day in case something crazy happens like a global economic meltdown.
Lame-duck sessions are certainly useful when everyone is acting honestly but lol. They should just be tightened up significantly. Plenty of room for recounts without having unaccountable dead men in charge for so long.
In what possible way?
Like you mention, gives us time to do recounts, make sure all the mail-ins are ready to go etc. Additionally, I think there's value in having a national period to process election results before they take effect.
That said, none of that necessitates a lame duck session as long as the one we have.
Or you could just suspend the legislature while you count the votes. Works quite well, and avoid a lot of problems.
You could. You can't suspend every office you have elections for though.
That's what public servants are for: to run the day to day operations of government.
Lame-duck sessions are certainly useful when everyone is acting honestly but lol. They should just be tightened up significantly. Plenty of room for recounts without having unaccountable dead men in charge for so long.
In what possible way?
Transition periods lasting more than a day in case something crazy happens like a global economic meltdown.
That's what the civil service is for. Get your election shit done, reconvene the new government. Lame-duck sessions only encourage fuckery because now you have nothing to lose and you know who holds what power come January.
Lame-duck sessions are certainly useful when everyone is acting honestly but lol. They should just be tightened up significantly. Plenty of room for recounts without having unaccountable dead men in charge for so long.
In what possible way?
Transition periods lasting more than a day in case something crazy happens like a global economic meltdown.
That's what the civil service is for. Get your election shit done, reconvene the new government. Lame-duck sessions only encourage fuckery because now you have nothing to lose and you know who holds what power come January.
The Civil Service cannot enact new Law nor should they be empowered to.
TARP was enacted mid-October during an election year. Mostly by chance. If you move that back a month to post election and the economy collapses while we're determining who the new heads of the Executive are, what do they do? They need new legal authority to respond, but cannot.
Cabinet secretaries and deputy secretaries aren't (1) members of Congress or (2) elected positions in the first place, so I'm not seeing how that's relevant to a legislative role they wouldn't have anyway.
That said, in countries where they are legislators, yes, they are often in fact not sitting and passing legislation between one election and the installation of the next legislature.
Guys honestly I think you might want to just go ahead and bring UN observers in for 2020 because holy fucking shit an entire county in Florida just got disenfranchised over a two minute deadline after a solid week of every bullshit delay tactic possible being thrown at them.
I'm hoping a lot of this apparent chaos is just people making a lot of noise trying to rush the process or jump the gun to declare victory.
I've read all the statutes with seemingly related titles, nothing ever says "stop counting" with the exception of the final certification deadline of the second Sunday (where counties must certify their returns or have them discarded).
- There is no referenced instruction for what happens if they don't submit their initial unofficial results by the first Saturday; it just says they shall.
- They're explicitly told to keep counting if they miss the recount reporting deadline.
The purpose of the two unofficial return deadlines appears to only be for determining if recounts are in order.
The first was due Sat to determine if a machine recount was required, the second was today to determine if hand recounts are required.
It seems unlikely Gillum would have closed the ~20ish thousand gap to get to a hand recount, and Nelson's already getting one in the initial count.
Florida Dem group pointing out that signature matches are...stupid.
Also how the fuck do you have a counting deadline now if the judge gave voters more time to contest their ballot being thrown out?
He gave them until Saturday to resolve, county certification is due noon Sunday.
Alt-post:. Holy shit, does this mean Rick Scott was never legally Governor and is personally liable for any damages caused by any piece of legislation he fraudulently passed off as legitimate?
Cabinet secretaries and deputy secretaries aren't (1) members of Congress or (2) elected positions in the first place, so I'm not seeing how that's relevant to a legislative role they wouldn't have anyway.
That said, in countries where they are legislators, yes, they are often in fact not sitting and passing legislation between one election and the installation of the next legislature.
If you suspend the politicians while counting the votes but not all the people they choose to make their will reality you're not really suspending politicians. Lame duck sessions are fine, they just need to be shorter.
Cabinet secretaries and deputy secretaries aren't (1) members of Congress or (2) elected positions in the first place, so I'm not seeing how that's relevant to a legislative role they wouldn't have anyway.
That said, in countries where they are legislators, yes, they are often in fact not sitting and passing legislation between one election and the installation of the next legislature.
If you suspend the politicians while counting the votes but not all the people they choose to make their will reality you're not really suspending politicians. Lame duck sessions are fine, they just need to be shorter.
Like, parliamentary democracies have solved this problem for over a hundred years now minimum. It works fine. And has the bonus of not allowing fuckery like, say, the North Carolina legislature stripping the governorship they just lost of power after the election is over.
Cabinet secretaries and deputy secretaries aren't (1) members of Congress or (2) elected positions in the first place, so I'm not seeing how that's relevant to a legislative role they wouldn't have anyway.
That said, in countries where they are legislators, yes, they are often in fact not sitting and passing legislation between one election and the installation of the next legislature.
If you suspend the politicians while counting the votes but not all the people they choose to make their will reality you're not really suspending politicians. Lame duck sessions are fine, they just need to be shorter.
Like, parliamentary democracies have solved this problem for over a hundred years now minimum. It works fine. And has the bonus of not allowing fuckery like, say, the North Carolina legislature stripping the governorship they just lost of power after the election is over.
Parliamentary systems have rather significant differences between Presidential systems which allow them to do that. The Chancellor of the Exchequer is elected in along with the new Government, for instance, rather than requiring multiple Senate hearings and votes to be granted that authority. Hell, parliamentary systems elect a Government. We don't. We elect 3 governments, not even all at the same time, and tell them to get along with each other.
This is getting pretty far afield and is not going to alter the current lame duck session we are in right now.
Cabinet secretaries and deputy secretaries aren't (1) members of Congress or (2) elected positions in the first place, so I'm not seeing how that's relevant to a legislative role they wouldn't have anyway.
That said, in countries where they are legislators, yes, they are often in fact not sitting and passing legislation between one election and the installation of the next legislature.
If you suspend the politicians while counting the votes but not all the people they choose to make their will reality you're not really suspending politicians. Lame duck sessions are fine, they just need to be shorter.
Like, parliamentary democracies have solved this problem for over a hundred years now minimum. It works fine. And has the bonus of not allowing fuckery like, say, the North Carolina legislature stripping the governorship they just lost of power after the election is over.
Parliamentary systems have rather significant differences between Presidential systems which allow them to do that. The Chancellor of the Exchequer is elected in along with the new Government, for instance, rather than requiring multiple Senate hearings and votes to be granted that authority. Hell, parliamentary systems elect a Government. We don't. We elect 3 governments, not even all at the same time, and tell them to get along with each other.
This is getting pretty far afield and is not going to alter the current lame duck session we are in right now.
Can we try to restrain ourselves from galloping off into these tangential woods every few pages, please
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Because the GOP is currently winning the counts. See Bush V Gore.
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How convenient!
No way that hold up in court. (In before someone mentions Bush v Gore)
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International observers in US elections have become a thing lately. 2016 was watched by the OAS and OSCE, who had about five hundred observers across the country. They also had a few dozen in 2012 when things weren't quite as obviously shenanigannish.
This is the part I really don't understand. There's no rush. Right? Are there actual legitimate reasons why we need to make sure the count is finished months in advance?
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There are certainly reasons to have counting done in a prompt and timely manner, but none of them outweigh doing the thing properly.
In what possible way?
Like you mention, gives us time to do recounts, make sure all the mail-ins are ready to go etc. Additionally, I think there's value in having a national period to process election results before they take effect.
That said, none of that necessitates a lame duck session as long as the one we have.
You could. You can't suspend every office you have elections for though.
I'm so fucking confused as to whether this matters or if the mean "final unofficial tally"
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0100-0199/0102/Sections/0102.112.html
Counties have 12 days to certify their results (Sunday). That's the final tally.
All the county reporting deadlines to date are referred to as "unofficial returns."
The statute defining recount procedures says they shall report the initial unofficial results as the new unofficial results, include an explanation of why they missed the deadline, and shall complete the recount and certify results per 102.112 (linked above; 12 days hence).
There is at least an argument that a whole lot of prep work goes into a new Presidential administration (errr...current administration excluded.) That is rather untrue with Governors and way way way less true for Senators.
Transition periods lasting more than a day in case something crazy happens like a global economic meltdown.
The executive doesmt really work that way
That's what the civil service is for. Get your election shit done, reconvene the new government. Lame-duck sessions only encourage fuckery because now you have nothing to lose and you know who holds what power come January.
The Civil Service cannot enact new Law nor should they be empowered to.
TARP was enacted mid-October during an election year. Mostly by chance. If you move that back a month to post election and the economy collapses while we're determining who the new heads of the Executive are, what do they do? They need new legal authority to respond, but cannot.
Theyre not that distinct either. Do you suspend cabinet members? Deputy secretaries?
That said, in countries where they are legislators, yes, they are often in fact not sitting and passing legislation between one election and the installation of the next legislature.
I'm hoping a lot of this apparent chaos is just people making a lot of noise trying to rush the process or jump the gun to declare victory.
I've read all the statutes with seemingly related titles, nothing ever says "stop counting" with the exception of the final certification deadline of the second Sunday (where counties must certify their returns or have them discarded).
- There is no referenced instruction for what happens if they don't submit their initial unofficial results by the first Saturday; it just says they shall.
- They're explicitly told to keep counting if they miss the recount reporting deadline.
The purpose of the two unofficial return deadlines appears to only be for determining if recounts are in order.
The first was due Sat to determine if a machine recount was required, the second was today to determine if hand recounts are required.
It seems unlikely Gillum would have closed the ~20ish thousand gap to get to a hand recount, and Nelson's already getting one in the initial count.
Florida Dem group pointing out that signature matches are...stupid.
Also how the fuck do you have a counting deadline now if the judge gave voters more time to contest their ballot being thrown out?
He gave them until Saturday to resolve, county certification is due noon Sunday.
Alt-post:. Holy shit, does this mean Rick Scott was never legally Governor and is personally liable for any damages caused by any piece of legislation he fraudulently passed off as legitimate?
If you suspend the politicians while counting the votes but not all the people they choose to make their will reality you're not really suspending politicians. Lame duck sessions are fine, they just need to be shorter.
On the other hand, this is WAY more relaxed than it was the week leading up to the election.
Y'all remember when 538's tracker freaked the hell out and said the Pubs were going to take the House. Good times. (Note: that was not good times)
Like, parliamentary democracies have solved this problem for over a hundred years now minimum. It works fine. And has the bonus of not allowing fuckery like, say, the North Carolina legislature stripping the governorship they just lost of power after the election is over.
Parliamentary systems have rather significant differences between Presidential systems which allow them to do that. The Chancellor of the Exchequer is elected in along with the new Government, for instance, rather than requiring multiple Senate hearings and votes to be granted that authority. Hell, parliamentary systems elect a Government. We don't. We elect 3 governments, not even all at the same time, and tell them to get along with each other.
This is getting pretty far afield and is not going to alter the current lame duck session we are in right now.
Can we try to restrain ourselves from galloping off into these tangential woods every few pages, please
I convinced myself that what I saw was fake and eventually the numbers caught up and normalized and I know they relaxed their tracker. it paid off.