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[Heroes of the Storm] Old Thread.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    I really enjoy 25 minute QM games where the other team is losing the entire time but refuses to actually let us end the game because they have Abathur and Ragnaros.

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    ArcsurvivorArcsurvivor CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    I like some of the mounts. Originally, I played to get a HS cardback and the quotes for some heroes were funny and amusing. Really too bad Blizzard gave up on competitive scene.

    Hearthstone: (Wild and Arena)
    Currently Playing on Steam - Journey down Ch 3/ Shadowrun: Hong Kong
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    cptruggedcptrugged I think it has something to do with free will. Registered User regular
    I play QM with a group that only plays with 3 or more. So we always have a tank and a healer. And what we've seen pretty much always is that the randos will rarely lane on their own. BUT, as soon as we start soaking. Everyone starts soaking. As soon as we start taking camps. Everyone starts taking camps. Like, if we were to just all stay mid. I'm certain that's all that would happen. But when the randos are reminded that camps and lanes other than mid exist. They tend to start going there.

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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    DztU9mKWwAAhv_8.jpg
    DztgX6GXcAIcBJ_.jpg
    DztxlhuWsAAAK9f.jpg

    siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh

    0-5 today like jesus h christ

    every single game has been like this

    i give up

    Dibby on
    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    cptrugged wrote: »
    I play QM with a group that only plays with 3 or more. So we always have a tank and a healer. And what we've seen pretty much always is that the randos will rarely lane on their own. BUT, as soon as we start soaking. Everyone starts soaking. As soon as we start taking camps. Everyone starts taking camps. Like, if we were to just all stay mid. I'm certain that's all that would happen. But when the randos are reminded that camps and lanes other than mid exist. They tend to start going there.

    Oftentimes, it's good practice to get to lanes early then sit in a bush to soak. Because you're right; if the enemy team sees you soaking, they should know they have to counter-soak and get to lanes. But if they don't see you in lane, you're likely to get value while they continue to fuck around mid.

    This is especially important if you play a global or stealth hero, because if they can't see you, for all they know, you could literally be anywhere.

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    A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    Ok but sitting in shrubbery and soaking is anti-fun.

    vm8gvf5p7gqi.jpg
    Steam - Talon Valdez :Blizz - Talonious#1860 : Xbox Live & LoL - Talonious Monk @TaloniousMonk Hail Satan
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    also i was thinking about junkrat today and like boy he needs a rework.

    there's so much wrong with his talent tree. he has only two powerspike talents, one being Taste For Explosions (hoo boy that's a whole 'nother can of worms though) so it's an omega lategame stacking quest. and the other are his 16 talents, which are fine

    but if we don't include TFE, which is like actually fucking mandatory because he doesn't function without it, he only has one.

    so many of his talents are dedicated to just weird jank shit like his E or W. and a lot of them just feel bad, or boring or unexciting. i don't feel good picking my level 1, or picking up tricky shuffles (even tho tricky shuffles is good, it's still rather unexciting and the other two talents on that tier do not exist)

    all of his E talents feel really bad and even E as a button can feel pretty bad. most of the time you just toss it out in a bush or something and it doesn't do anything except provide vision. sometimes it can zone in a choke point (like infernal shrines or BoE) but most of the time it does nothing.

    he can contribute so much damage to a fight but it can still feel like you've done nothing of consequence. i've had games where i was shitting out 100k+ damage but it felt like i was just doing nothing.

    his talent tree reminds me a lot of lunara's original talent tree........ bleh.

    Dibby on
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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    SaerisSaeris Borb Enthusiast flapflapflapflapRegistered User regular
    The talent that makes the trap chase people is the best, and I will hear nothing to the contrary.

    borb_sig.png
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    SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Can confirm saeris's junkrat build manages to take none of the standard talents and it regularly confuses me

    PSN SeGaTai
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    cptrugged wrote: »
    I play QM with a group that only plays with 3 or more. So we always have a tank and a healer. And what we've seen pretty much always is that the randos will rarely lane on their own. BUT, as soon as we start soaking. Everyone starts soaking. As soon as we start taking camps. Everyone starts taking camps. Like, if we were to just all stay mid. I'm certain that's all that would happen. But when the randos are reminded that camps and lanes other than mid exist. They tend to start going there.

    Oftentimes, it's good practice to get to lanes early then sit in a bush to soak. Because you're right; if the enemy team sees you soaking, they should know they have to counter-soak and get to lanes. But if they don't see you in lane, you're likely to get value while they continue to fuck around mid.

    This is especially important if you play a global or stealth hero, because if they can't see you, for all they know, you could literally be anywhere.
    One issue with this in scrub tier is that if you go off to soak a lane at the start and your team ends up 4v5 in mid, there is a good chance they will fully commit as though they aren't outnumbered and end up with multiple deaths in the initial pointless ARAM clusterfuck.

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    Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Saeris wrote: »
    The talent that makes the trap chase people is the best, and I will hear nothing to the contrary.

    Every time I want to try Trap build, I see Taste for Explosions and go, eh, maybe next time. The Q stacking is just so much easy value. And even just trading Chattering Teeth for Ripper Air costs so much overall mobility in the late game, it rarely seems worth it.

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    SaerisSaeris Borb Enthusiast flapflapflapflapRegistered User regular
    Yeah, but here's the thing: the trap chases people! It's too funny to pass up. And it's amazing at zoning. I never feel like I need the mobility of Ripper Air, because by that stage in the game, we're all together all the time for team fights anyway.

    borb_sig.png
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Saeris wrote: »
    Yeah, but here's the thing: the trap chases people!
    He’s got you there.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Get it.

    Cause it’s a trap.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    akjakakjak Thera Spooky GymRegistered User regular
    My usual opening strategy is to join the mid melee, try to get that early kill or two, and then peel off to a lane.

    I’ll usually only miss 3 or 4 minion kills of xp.

    Switch: SW-4133-1546-2720 (Thera)
    Twitch: akThera
    Steam: Thera
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Since I play Maiev so much these days getting one or two early stacks is incredibly valuable to me.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Ok but sitting in shrubbery and soaking is anti-fun.

    I think a majority of players would agree with that statement, which is why, in hindsight, HotS was never taken seriously by the moba community and was eventually taken out behind the shed and shot.

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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Ok but sitting in shrubbery and soaking is anti-fun.

    I think a majority of players would agree with that statement, which is why, in hindsight, HotS was never taken seriously by the moba community and was eventually taken out behind the shed and shot.

    In the beginning that's not how it was, towers and forts had limited ammo. So the faster you push the creeps the better off your lane is. That's the very first thing I liked about it, the fact that it incentived pushing rather than passively last hitting.

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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Zek wrote: »
    milk ducks wrote: »
    Ok but sitting in shrubbery and soaking is anti-fun.

    I think a majority of players would agree with that statement, which is why, in hindsight, HotS was never taken seriously by the moba community and was eventually taken out behind the shed and shot.

    In the beginning that's not how it was, towers and forts had limited ammo. So the faster you push the creeps the better off your lane is. That's the very first thing I liked about it, the fact that it incentived pushing rather than passively last hitting.

    the end of the year sweeping mechanics changes they've been making have been pretty divisive to say the least

    i'm still not sure where i sit on the whole ammo removal thing tbh

    the only real sweeping mechanics changes i've liked have been the scaling changes (and even then i know some people preferred the old slower pace/TTK) aaaand probably the early game lane changes? i like that winning a lane feels more valuable, i liked that mercs were actually better.

    but otherwise look at what ammo removal did. it was no longer about winning the lane to push the lane up so you could drain the enemy's tower ammo (resource war), instead it became about passively soaking and NOT pushing up because pushing up makes it HARDER to soak that exp because tower damage hurts like hell

    so the laning dynamic changed entirely

    and i'm still not sure if it was the right move to make

    i'm still not sure where i sit on these latest exp changes either. like i'm not 100% sure they actually accomplished anything. the snowball still exists, it's just been painted over to make it look like it doesn't. one team is inevitably going to have a commanding lead over the other, even if the level gap is equal or minimized. or in some cases, yeah that 3-4 level constant lead still does exist because why the FUCK did they boost merc exp by 100% (and then remove the exp refund from killing opposing mercs?!)

    whoof

    tbh kinda wish they'd stop making changes for the sake of change. hm.

    Dibby on
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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    finnithfinnith ... TorontoRegistered User regular
    I don't know that I've seen a 3 level lead outside of games where one team is *heavily* dominating the other. More often than not I see a 2/2.5 level lead (10-8, 16-14, 5-3, etc.). Before the recent changes you could potentially get 17-14, 20-17 or 10-7 level-leads in a lot of games.

    Personally I don't really like the ammo change given how it's impacted certain maps (i.e. ToD) and the solo lane.

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    SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    Xp refund for killing mercs is straight bad since your feeding xp to your opponents side of the map (you already are by pushing your lane up) and creates situations where you should not take an available camp.

    Ammo did help create stronger personal agency over your own lane, but they could not balance it for heroes with high sustain (Sonya) or minions (zag/naz). How fucking long was Sonya a legit 1st pick.

    So keeping ammo would have been great, but their ability to balance the whole roster in terms of pushing power and team fight power, while making heroes feel unique, just doesn't exist and this seems like a better trade off

    PSN SeGaTai
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    Xp refund for killing mercs is straight bad since your feeding xp to your opponents side of the map (you already are by pushing your lane up) and creates situations where you should not take an available camp.

    Ammo did help create stronger personal agency over your own lane, but they could not balance it for heroes with high sustain (Sonya) or minions (zag/naz). How fucking long was Sonya a legit 1st pick.

    So keeping ammo would have been great, but their ability to balance the whole roster in terms of pushing power and team fight power, while making heroes feel unique, just doesn't exist and this seems like a better trade off

    but the alternative is that jungling is now a thing and it creates a "fourth lane" where the optimal strat is to just get every single merc camp on cd without any thought or strategy to the timing of it

    i don't think that's much better either

    i mean i don't think they should make the mercs refund exp either, but honestly at this point i'd just like to see them reduce the amount they do give. +100% is absurd.

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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    the more recent xp changes for forts are excellent and have made the 3 lane push maps significantly less snowbally. The objective leading to 10-8 which means you can't fight so you lose all your forts so you go down 13-10 so you lose the next objective so you go down 16-14 so you lose the next objective so you finally have a shot at 18-16 and then you just have to win every fight until the game ends script isn't nearly as set in stone as it used to be.

    Knight_ on
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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    Xp refund for killing mercs is straight bad since your feeding xp to your opponents side of the map (you already are by pushing your lane up) and creates situations where you should not take an available camp.

    Ammo did help create stronger personal agency over your own lane, but they could not balance it for heroes with high sustain (Sonya) or minions (zag/naz). How fucking long was Sonya a legit 1st pick.

    So keeping ammo would have been great, but their ability to balance the whole roster in terms of pushing power and team fight power, while making heroes feel unique, just doesn't exist and this seems like a better trade off

    but the alternative is that jungling is now a thing and it creates a "fourth lane" where the optimal strat is to just get every single merc camp on cd without any thought or strategy to the timing of it

    i don't think that's much better either

    i mean i don't think they should make the mercs refund exp either, but honestly at this point i'd just like to see them reduce the amount they do give. +100% is absurd.

    It would be absurd if the community understood how it worked. They very clearly have not.

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    I wish we still had ammo, at least on the towers. Maybe keep forts/keeps at infinite.

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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    Removing tower ammo was a Chen nerf.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    The only problem with ammo is that it pretty much made the towers a liability and not an actual benefit to your team. They ran out of ammo so fast and then they had nothing and were XP just waiting to be gobbled up by the other team.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Ammo used to be 2 shots/30 seconds on a reload. Bring ammo back and greatly increase the ammo recharge rate. 1 shot/5 seconds of not attacking might do it. Or maybe it refills slowly, then more quickly as shots are being fired, like Morales/Fenix energy/shields recharging.

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Shit if you want to be really neat about it put in npcs that walk back and forth between the fort/keep and the nearby towers carying ammo. Both NPCs alive = fast ammo recharge. 1 alive = slow recharge. Neither alive = no recharge. Now it becomes a strategic choice to go after a tower with a pushed in wave OR the gate so you can pop those NPCs.

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    I present to you
    'zbi6au7m10z2.jpg
    When Cheese goes wrong.

    A Draft Story.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    Nothing like a game where the deaths on your team look like
    1
    0
    1
    7
    8

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    MNC DoverMNC Dover Full-time Voice Actor Kirkland, WARegistered User regular
    Nothing like a game where the deaths on your team look like
    1
    0
    1
    7
    8

    Stop feeding Munkus!

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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    Nothing like a game where the deaths on your team look like
    1
    0
    1
    7
    8

    *looks at own Zeratul screenshot several posts up, nods firmly in agreement*

    and then your team goes "gg they had better comp"

    hmmm

    is that what you think, mr 10 deaths

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    Nothing like a game where the deaths on your team look like
    1
    0
    1
    7
    8

    *looks at own Zeratul screenshot several posts up, nods firmly in agreement*

    and then your team goes "gg they had better comp"

    hmmm

    is that what you think, mr 10 deaths

    Oh my goodness that's my biggest pet peeve in HotS yes

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    SmrtnikSmrtnik job boli zub Registered User regular
    Dibby wrote: »
    Nothing like a game where the deaths on your team look like
    1
    0
    1
    7
    8

    *looks at own Zeratul screenshot several posts up, nods firmly in agreement*

    and then your team goes "gg they had better comp"

    hmmm

    is that what you think, mr 10 deaths

    Had a 12 death Imperius bitching i wasn't going to the objective with him (2 of us vs 5 of them). Yeah ok buddy.

    steam_sig.png
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    cursed hollow, our probius literally stays top lane the entire time, enemy team has gotten two tribs so far, it's 0-2 and curse point

    we say "probius, need you for this one."

    obj is up. enemy team smacks our shit in.

    probius starts waddling down after the fight has ended, drops a pylon by our mid fort, waffles a bit about going in (yeah buddy it's fucking 1v5 that's not exactly difficult math), slightly enters the choke point, dips back out, enemy caps the obj. circles around mid for a bit, goes back top.

    ?????????????????????????????????????????

    DNiDlnb.png
    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    Waddling?? Probius glides!

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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    You ever have a game where you dominate the other team so completely and utterly that you honestly just pity them?

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver You don't have to attend every argument you are invited to. Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPA regular
    bub4h4aeluu1.jpg

    This isn't even the game I was talking about.

    Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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    milk ducksmilk ducks High Mucky Muck Big Tits TownRegistered User regular
    You ever have a game where you dominate the other team so completely and utterly that you honestly just pity them?

    Pretty much every match since December 11th, 2018, yeah.

This discussion has been closed.