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[Magic The Gathering: Arena] The CCG that started it all, now F2P. New set incoming

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Posts

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I crafted Nexii and played a bunch of bo1 ladder with Simic Nexus (I would play bo3 but I don’t have the wildcards for the transformative sideboard.)

    Nexus needs to be banned.

    The deck isn’t broken and I honestly don’t even think the troll looping is a problem, because that needs to be solved on a player level. However, Nexus is a non-deterministic combo deck that loops while shuffling. We’ve seen this before with Four Horsemen and it’s a Problem. Even eggs was never this bad, since you could far more clearly establish an infinite loop that Nexus just doesn’t guarantee.

    Elldren
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited February 12
    I think the troll looping needs to be solved via game mechanics or the UI. I don't think the troll looping is super common, but when you consider something like 350 million games have been played on arena (that was the number hasbro put out for their earnings statement), if even 1 in 1,000 generates a complaint they have 50,000 complaints a month to investigate. (just spit balling numbers here)

    Nothing reasonable is going to be accomplished by widespread reporting. How many people would you have to hire to investigate 2k slow play/trolling/roping a day? Nothing is done with any of those reports because they don't have the resources. There is just no way.

    Nexus obviously needs to be banned. But not because of the troll looping. The card is unfun and anti-play.

    furbat on
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    A 'tap all' button would be welcome. Then it wouldn't be neccessary to manually tap 15+ lands.

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    furbat wrote: »
    I think the troll looping needs to be solved via game mechanics or the UI. I don't think the troll looping is super common, but when you consider something like 350 million games have been played on arena, if even 1 in 1,000 generates a complaint they have 50,000 complaints a month to investigate. (just spit balling numbers here)

    Nothing reasonable is going to be accomplished by widespread reporting. How many people would you have to hire to investigate 2k slow play/trolling/roping a day?

    Actually, not all that many.

    Consider a system like League of Legends used, or uses, I'm not sure if it's been changed. You have an option in the UI to report a player for whatever bad behavior you want to, drop down, etc.

    After a player has been reported a requisite number of times, they are automatically warned. "You've been reported for bad conduct or something. See the community guidelines for how to be a good person etc." If that same player is reported another requisite number of times, a human looks at the record and decides on disciplinary action. A report will die off of your record after some amount of time.

    Additionally, if a player is constantly sending spurious reports (significantly many more reports than the average player, and a very low percentage of reports which actually lead to a warning or other disciplinary action), you can weight their reports lower if you want. This step isn't necessary but could possibly solve problems IF you observe them first.

    Let's hypothetically set the requisite numbers to 10 and 20, with a falloff time of maybe 2 months. If 10 people in a 2 months report you for roping, you get warned. Another 10 and you get manual attention.

    Even if every single report filed was genuine and every person who was reported deserved disciplinary action and made it to the 20 mark, that reduces the number of individual instances that a person's history needs to be reviewed by about 20 times (with only a marginal increase in the amount of time it would take to process whatever they're doing wrong).

    Suddenly instead of 50,000 complaints a month you've got 2500, or 83 per day, which is easily accomplished by a small team of 2-3 people. And that is of course assuming that EVERY SINGLE REPORT results in a person manually reviewing it. The actual number of reports viewed by a human would probably be significantly less.

  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    in other news I've been trying to run Dovin in a number of decks

    I'm pretty sure he just sucks

  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    Rend wrote: »
    furbat wrote: »
    I think the troll looping needs to be solved via game mechanics or the UI. I don't think the troll looping is super common, but when you consider something like 350 million games have been played on arena, if even 1 in 1,000 generates a complaint they have 50,000 complaints a month to investigate. (just spit balling numbers here)

    Nothing reasonable is going to be accomplished by widespread reporting. How many people would you have to hire to investigate 2k slow play/trolling/roping a day?

    Actually, not all that many.

    Consider a system like League of Legends used, or uses, I'm not sure if it's been changed. You have an option in the UI to report a player for whatever bad behavior you want to, drop down, etc.

    After a player has been reported a requisite number of times, they are automatically warned. "You've been reported for bad conduct or something. See the community guidelines for how to be a good person etc." If that same player is reported another requisite number of times, a human looks at the record and decides on disciplinary action. A report will die off of your record after some amount of time.

    Additionally, if a player is constantly sending spurious reports (significantly many more reports than the average player, and a very low percentage of reports which actually lead to a warning or other disciplinary action), you can weight their reports lower if you want. This step isn't necessary but could possibly solve problems IF you observe them first.

    Let's hypothetically set the requisite numbers to 10 and 20, with a falloff time of maybe 2 months. If 10 people in a 2 months report you for roping, you get warned. Another 10 and you get manual attention.

    Even if every single report filed was genuine and every person who was reported deserved disciplinary action and made it to the 20 mark, that reduces the number of individual instances that a person's history needs to be reviewed by about 20 times (with only a marginal increase in the amount of time it would take to process whatever they're doing wrong).

    Suddenly instead of 50,000 complaints a month you've got 2500, or 83 per day, which is easily accomplished by a small team of 2-3 people. And that is of course assuming that EVERY SINGLE REPORT results in a person manually reviewing it. The actual number of reports viewed by a human would probably be significantly less.

    I don't think a system like that really works with MTGA because it's very difficult to prove bad behavior. You could just throw out all the complaints from people who report people for using their entire turn timer, because those people are likely to generate the majority of the complaints for something unenforceable and investigate reports only from people who rarely report.

    I remain skeptical though.

  • RendRend Registered User regular
    furbat wrote: »
    I don't think a system like that really works with MTGA because it's very difficult to prove bad behavior. You could just throw out all the complaints from people who report people for using their entire turn timer, because those people are likely to generate the majority of the complaints for something unenforceable and investigate reports only from people who rarely report.

    I remain skeptical though.

    The beauty of such a system is that no single person is likely to be even warned unless they're a repeat offender. Systems like that are used all the time elsewhere and they work very well, magic isn't special in that it's secretly super difficult to know what's going on. You still have the same transcript of actions and emotes.

    People always say "[x] disciplinary system just won't work!" for whatever reason, but the truth is while it's not exactly a solved problem, good mitigation DOES exist even for games like MTG without a chat log.

  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    In this particular instance though, you are talking about locking people into 1-2 hour long games enough times to generate multiple reports before a warning is given.

  • RendRend Registered User regular
    edited February 12
    That's not true. If you're talking about nexus looping in particular, you wait long enough to realize they're looping without a win condition, report, and then concede. Then move on.

    If you are a roper or looper or whatever, each of the X number of games you need to be warned or disciplined is going to be against (almost certainly) a different opponent, so your total harm is diffused.

    Additionally, if you're a spurious reporter, each of your spurious reports is just as likely to be against a different opponent, so your total harm is diffused.

    Systems like this only jump into action when many different people have a negative enough experience to open up the reporting UI and say the same thing about the same person.

    Rend on
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited February 12
    You aren't really refuting what I'm saying. For all we know they could be using the exact system you describe, but to the outside observer it appears that nothing if occurring since offenders are likely to be reported infrequently and the situation itself arises infrequently. Chris Clay claims that reports are investigated.

    So then the system does not prevent or discourage these offenses.

    furbat on
  • RendRend Registered User regular
    Yeah what you really need is a UI in the game itself so that it's not onerous to file a report. At that point, if you're receiving too many reports, you pare them down with such a system so that the resources you've committed to community discipline can keep up the pace.

  • GriswoldGriswold (a superset of all possible mathematics) (his body disintegrated)Registered User regular
    Rend wrote: »
    Yeah what you really need is a UI in the game itself so that it's not onerous to file a report. At that point, if you're receiving too many reports, you pare them down with such a system so that the resources you've committed to community discipline can keep up the pace.

    I have to imagine this is a feature, not a bug, currently. Everything I've read suggests the Arena team is pretty small and doesn't have the resources to dedicate a group of employees to handling player reports. Until their budget scales up, expect things to stay as they are

    Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
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    MTG Arena: Snow_Crash#34179
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular


    So uh, singleton event this weekend.

    Thanks Day9 and...Danny Trejo?

    Twitch Streaming T/W/TH and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Me on Steam
    NeadenBoomerAang SquadLucedesArmorocWotanAnubisElldren
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    Griswold wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    Yeah what you really need is a UI in the game itself so that it's not onerous to file a report. At that point, if you're receiving too many reports, you pare them down with such a system so that the resources you've committed to community discipline can keep up the pace.

    I have to imagine this is a feature, not a bug, currently. Everything I've read suggests the Arena team is pretty small and doesn't have the resources to dedicate a group of employees to handling player reports. Until their budget scales up, expect things to stay as they are

    They claimed that guilds was the most played expansion in MTG's history due to MTGA, so I expect this to change.

    Probably why they are also doing the Bo1 tournament. They want competitive magic to reflect how most people play it.

  • GoodKingJayIIIGoodKingJayIII Registered User regular
    Can anyone recommend a list that focuses on blinking permanents on and off the board to get additional triggers of the "enters the battlefield" effects? I'm working on a commander deck focused on the same thing but I'd like to get a sense of what's in arena to see if I can try something similar.

    Battletag: Threeve#1501
    PSN: Threeve703
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Lumbering Battlement off the top of my head.

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
    Elbasunu
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    furbat wrote: »
    Griswold wrote: »
    Rend wrote: »
    Yeah what you really need is a UI in the game itself so that it's not onerous to file a report. At that point, if you're receiving too many reports, you pare them down with such a system so that the resources you've committed to community discipline can keep up the pace.

    I have to imagine this is a feature, not a bug, currently. Everything I've read suggests the Arena team is pretty small and doesn't have the resources to dedicate a group of employees to handling player reports. Until their budget scales up, expect things to stay as they are

    They claimed that guilds was the most played expansion in MTG's history due to MTGA, so I expect this to change.

    Probably why they are also doing the Bo1 tournament. They want competitive magic to reflect how most people play it.

    Most people play magic casually

    Making the competitive tournaments based on casual play is a mistake

    But the tournament is also just an invitational and there's been enough backlash I can't imagine they won't be back to doing best of three stuff soon. BO3 is great and a lot less random than BO1. Even with the weird bring two decks thing.

    Also they really need to redo the UI for the different modes, that little toggle for regular and advanced play is very confusing. Having the three titles change so you can't see all of the game modes even when advanced play is clicked, unless you click "play" in the corner is weird.

    Twitch Streaming T/W/TH and more
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    Elldren
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited February 12
    Can anyone recommend a list that focuses on blinking permanents on and off the board to get additional triggers of the "enters the battlefield" effects? I'm working on a commander deck focused on the same thing but I'd like to get a sense of what's in arena to see if I can try something similar.

    I've been trying out different versions of this deck in standard a bit; it's tough to build because there are a lot of good targets out there across the colors. I think Hostage Taker is pretty much a must-include, not just because she's great a killing Krases and stealing stuff, but because she's an excellent blink effect for your stuff. So that gets you blue, which you wanted anyway for Siren's Ruse, and gives you Exclusion Mage and Dream Eater. Black has good targets too, with Chupacabra, Plaguecrafter, maybe Lotleth Giant. Justiciar's Portal isn't as good as Siren's Ruse+Hostage Taker, but adding white does get you Militia Bugler, Basilica Bell-Haunt, Deputy of Detention, and (if you want to get really silly), Lumbering Battlement.

    Green is tempting for stuff like Reclamation Sage, Findbroker, Knight of Autumn, Frilled Mystic, Trostani etc., but I think spreading beyond esper isn't worth it.

    KalTorak on
    GoodKingJayIII
  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    Can anyone recommend a list that focuses on blinking permanents on and off the board to get additional triggers of the "enters the battlefield" effects? I'm working on a commander deck focused on the same thing but I'd like to get a sense of what's in arena to see if I can try something similar.

    Alternatively, Naban and a bunch of wizards like exclusion mage, viashino pyromancer, and so on. And then mirror march why not.

    Steam
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    Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
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  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    Hmm, I built a deck around Quasiduplicate and those effects back in Guild Ravnica Standard. I think it had stuff like:

    Chupacabra
    Vampire Sovereign
    Hostake Taker
    Dream Eater
    Exclusion Mage
    Blood Operative as a 1 of (phoenix decks were everywhere at the time)

    They all did a ton of work. I had Kitesail Freebooter too but that is better for copy and not blink. Connive/Concoct actually did some work too.

    Steam
    Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
    Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
    3ds: 3282-2248-0453
    discrider
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    If you want a stupid deck that wins games, throw a bunch of removal, board clears, 3x devious cover ups, and 2 unmoored egos into a deck and mill them. I call the deck 'bag of dicks'.


    Zombie HeroArmoroc
  • ElbasunuElbasunu Registered User regular
    Can anyone recommend a list that focuses on blinking permanents on and off the board to get additional triggers of the "enters the battlefield" effects? I'm working on a commander deck focused on the same thing but I'd like to get a sense of what's in arena to see if I can try something similar.

    There's no good equivalent to blinking right now besides Justiciar's Portal. Just lots of conditional exiling like Hostage Taker, Deputy of Detention, and the various exiling enchantments like Seal Away, Ixalan's Binding, and Conclave Tribunal.

    Abnormal Endurance kind of does it, too.

    g1xfUKU.png?10zfegkyoor3b.png
    Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
  • morgan_cokemorgan_coke Registered User regular
    Ran into a really interesting Gates deck. Guy used a bunch of planeswalkers and Legendary spells, and Squee, the Immortal to make sure he always had a legendary out to cast the stuff. Primevals Glorious Rebirth for a couple of 'walkers is strong stuff.

    XBL: Morgan Coke Yes, there is a space, not an underscore. I'm old school like that.
    Battle.net: morgancoke#1589

    Titan's Creed: Jump first, don't ask questions, punch everything
  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    Ran into a really interesting Gates deck. Guy used a bunch of planeswalkers and Legendary spells, and Squee, the Immortal to make sure he always had a legendary out to cast the stuff. Primevals Glorious Rebirth for a couple of 'walkers is strong stuff.

    Why hasn't Squee gotten the promotion to planeswalker yet? Gobbos need to walk some planes.

    Steam
    Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
    Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
    3ds: 3282-2248-0453
    Hahnsoo121stCentury
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Squee is just cursed with immortality.

    Why others have not cursed themselves in a similar manner, I have no idea.

    Twitch Channel
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    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
    21stCenturyElldren
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    Ran into a really interesting Gates deck. Guy used a bunch of planeswalkers and Legendary spells, and Squee, the Immortal to make sure he always had a legendary out to cast the stuff. Primevals Glorious Rebirth for a couple of 'walkers is strong stuff.

    That sounds tasty; I already have been having fun with the Gate-walkers deck that was in the standard league winner list a week or so ago.

  • NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    Squee is just cursed with immortality.

    Why others have not cursed themselves in a similar manner, I have no idea.

    Well he was cursed by Yawgmoth so that Corax could eternally torture him, which wouldn't be fun. But that ended up lasting like an hour so he got off pretty easy.
    One is my favorite parts of the Dominaria storyline is how it involved Liliana who made a deal with 4 demons for immortality kept running into people on Dominaria who just fell ass backwards into immortality. Jodah jumped into a fountain to hide one time and ends up living 4000 years and still going

    21stCenturyjakobagger
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Daretti is a goblin planeswalker: https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Daretti

    Twitch - Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I find it hilarious when a character curses/grants immortality to someone, and then dies. Like with Yawgmoth.

    Twitch Channel
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  • NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    edited February 13
    I find it hilarious when a character curses/grants immortality to someone, and then dies. Like with Yawgmoth.
    Did you ever hear the tragedy of Yawgmoth the Father of Machines? I thought not. It's not a story the Gatewatch would tell you. It's a Phyrexian legend. Yawgmoth was a Plansewalker of the Tehran, so powerful and so wise he could use magic to use machines to create life… He had such a knowledge of the black mana that he could even keep the ones he hated from dying. Black mana is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught Urza everything he knew, then Urza killed him with plansewalker powered bombs, a moon of white mana, and a living ship. Ironic. He could curse others from death, but not himself.

    Neaden on
    21stCentury
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Neaden wrote: »
    I find it hilarious when a character curses/grants immortality to someone, and then dies. Like with Yawgmoth.
    Did you ever hear the tragedy of Yawgmoth the Father of Machines? I thought not. It's not a story the Gatewatch would tell you. It's a Phyrexian legend. Yawgmoth was a Plansewalker of the Tehran, so powerful and so wise he could use magic to use machines to create life… He had such a knowledge of the black mans that he could even keep the ones he hated from dying. Black mana is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught Urza everything he knew, then Urza killed him with plansewalker powered bombs, a moon of white mana, and a living ship. Ironic. He could curse others from death, but not himself.

    Excuse me,

    What?

    What?

    Twitch Channel
    Steam: munkus_beaver
    Humor can be dissected, as a frog can, but it dies in the process.
    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • NeadenNeaden Registered User regular
    Neaden wrote: »
    I find it hilarious when a character curses/grants immortality to someone, and then dies. Like with Yawgmoth.
    Did you ever hear the tragedy of Yawgmoth the Father of Machines? I thought not. It's not a story the Gatewatch would tell you. It's a Phyrexian legend. Yawgmoth was a Plansewalker of the Tehran, so powerful and so wise he could use magic to use machines to create life… He had such a knowledge of the black mans that he could even keep the ones he hated from dying. Black mana is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught Urza everything he knew, then Urza killed him with plansewalker powered bombs, a moon of white mana, and a living ship. Ironic. He could curse others from death, but not himself.

    Excuse me,

    What?

    What?

    Oops, fixed.

  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited February 13
    I can't wait for the nexus ban. It's just stupid in Bo1. Untap with wilderness reclamation = win. Just dumb.

    It then warps the meta because all the midrange decks that would keep RDW in check get squeezed out.

    furbat on
  • TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    uhhlldfpcfof.jpg

    Ok drafting friends, what do you think for p1p1 here.

    I kinda think Summary? I like Orzhov a lot, and it's not great in that build, but it's removal...

    Partial open otherwise to maybe Rakdos Firewheeler (Though I hate the commit) or maybe savage? Or commit to ill-gotten memery.

    What say you?

    PAD ID - 328,762,218
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Ill gotten memery.

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  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Judgement or Savage Smash depending on your color preference. Rakdos Firewheeler is probably nearly as good but I think you need a significant incentive to go Rakdos and it's not that good. IGI is decent but I find bots pass so many it's hard to not end up with a couple.

    21stCentury
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    I think Smash is better enough than Judgment to justify the extra color.

    Personally I’d probably be swayed by Firewheeler but that’s just because it gets taken so highly that I barely ever see it and it’s very fun and turns on all those “power 4 or greater” cards which I never get to do either.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Can anyone recommend a list that focuses on blinking permanents on and off the board to get additional triggers of the "enters the battlefield" effects? I'm working on a commander deck focused on the same thing but I'd like to get a sense of what's in arena to see if I can try something similar.

    Dunno your format but this guy is king of that mechanic

    wgomuspzju25.jpeg

  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Can anyone recommend a list that focuses on blinking permanents on and off the board to get additional triggers of the "enters the battlefield" effects? I'm working on a commander deck focused on the same thing but I'd like to get a sense of what's in arena to see if I can try something similar.

    Dunno your format but this guy is king of that mechanic

    wgomuspzju25.jpeg

    I can't believe you would post this here. I thought this, the Magic thread, was a safe place.

    Armoroc
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Get thragged binch

    Armoroc
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