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[Magic The Gathering: Arena] The CCG that started it all, now F2P. New set incoming

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Posts

  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited February 19


    lol pewdiepie apparently just hit mythic in mtga. The game has hit peak internet.

    furbat on
  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    Well, that's not a content creator I expected to see here.

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  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    Well shit what deck is he running

    I have to be higher in mythic than pewdiepie

    And maybe title my MTGA stream this evening "More mythic than pewdiepie"

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  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Gruul "Aggro" I think.

  • discriderdiscrider Registered User regular
    Does the rank system funnel everyone into mythic eventually?
    That is does a win rate of 50% always gain or at least keep stable the number of rank pips you have?
    (If your pips stay stable at a certain rank, eventually new players will also get stuck in the same rank, forcing your win rate up)

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  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    discrider wrote: »
    Does the rank system funnel everyone into mythic eventually?
    That is does a win rate of 50% always gain or at least keep stable the number of rank pips you have?
    (If your pips stay stable at a certain rank, eventually new players will also get stuck in the same rank, forcing your win rate up)

    Yeah. Even at Diamond you gain and lose equal pips for wins and losses, and it takes an additional loss to drop a tier.

  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited February 19
    Its a pretty massive grind to hit mythic though. Even at a 60% winrate its a couple hundred games. At 50% I cant even imagine.

    I know they just changed it, but going from plat 4 to mythic is 48 wins more than losses? Or is it 7 pips a rank?

    Either way, doing that with a 55% win rate even with a free loss at the floors is going to take at least 700 games?

    furbat on
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    It's way less than a couple of hundred games if you're doing BO3. Getting from diamond to mythic last season doing BO1 it only took be 50-100ish

    But yeah, you gotta have that winrate.

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  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    My win rate is something like 20% and i still hit gold somehow

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  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited February 19
    My win rate is something like 20% and i still hit gold somehow

    Well, in Silver you earn twice as many pips for winning as you do for losing so combined with the difficulty of de-ranking it's hard not to.

    (Though if I had to guess I'd say you were closer to 30-40% than 20%)

    admanb on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    I started with a Mardu type deck but its kind of morphed into BW Agrro with Judith splashed.

    Armoroc
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited February 20
    admanb wrote: »
    Gruul "Aggro" I think.

    Boros from the video I saw of his play. Didn't look like he was running a single card from this expansion either.

    furbat on
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    It's way less than a couple of hundred games if you're doing BO3. Getting from diamond to mythic last season doing BO1 it only took be 50-100ish

    But yeah, you gotta have that winrate.

    How is there any difference?

  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    furbat wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    It's way less than a couple of hundred games if you're doing BO3. Getting from diamond to mythic last season doing BO1 it only took be 50-100ish

    But yeah, you gotta have that winrate.

    How is there any difference?

    https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-many-games-do-you-need-to-play-to-hit-mythic-in-mtg-arena/
    Before the unveiling of the Preseason 2 changes, there were fears that ranking up in best-of-three would take considerably more time than ranking up in best-of-one. But in the current implementation, my results show that you get to Mythic faster if you jam best-of-three matches from Gold onward.

    Essentially from gold and up, it's less games on average to rank up. Anecdotally, it took me a lot less time to hit mythic even with a slightly worse winrate using BO3 this season than it took me last season. Anyone know when we're leaving "preseasons"? I imagine we'll start getting cosmetic cardbacks and stuff at some point.

    Also went 7-1 with a silly dimir deck today, was shocked it did so well and had a ton of fun on stream. Obviously better than pewdiepie, clearly.

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  • admanbadmanb the bored genie Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Certainly a better person.

    21stCenturySniperGuyHahnsoo1jakobaggermilskiDr. Flamingo
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited February 20
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    furbat wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    It's way less than a couple of hundred games if you're doing BO3. Getting from diamond to mythic last season doing BO1 it only took be 50-100ish

    But yeah, you gotta have that winrate.

    How is there any difference?

    https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-many-games-do-you-need-to-play-to-hit-mythic-in-mtg-arena/
    Before the unveiling of the Preseason 2 changes, there were fears that ranking up in best-of-three would take considerably more time than ranking up in best-of-one. But in the current implementation, my results show that you get to Mythic faster if you jam best-of-three matches from Gold onward.

    Essentially from gold and up, it's less games on average to rank up. Anecdotally, it took me a lot less time to hit mythic even with a slightly worse winrate using BO3 this season than it took me last season. Anyone know when we're leaving "preseasons"? I imagine we'll start getting cosmetic cardbacks and stuff at some point.

    Also went 7-1 with a silly dimir deck today, was shocked it did so well and had a ton of fun on stream. Obviously better than pewdiepie, clearly.

    I'm pretty skeptical of that analysis because it essentially takes the same number of wins to earn 2 pips.

    It's essentially saying that if you have an x% win rate in Bo1, that winrate translates to each individual game in Bo3 giving you a higher effective win rate.

    furbat on
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    furbat wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    furbat wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    It's way less than a couple of hundred games if you're doing BO3. Getting from diamond to mythic last season doing BO1 it only took be 50-100ish

    But yeah, you gotta have that winrate.

    How is there any difference?

    https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-many-games-do-you-need-to-play-to-hit-mythic-in-mtg-arena/
    Before the unveiling of the Preseason 2 changes, there were fears that ranking up in best-of-three would take considerably more time than ranking up in best-of-one. But in the current implementation, my results show that you get to Mythic faster if you jam best-of-three matches from Gold onward.

    Essentially from gold and up, it's less games on average to rank up. Anecdotally, it took me a lot less time to hit mythic even with a slightly worse winrate using BO3 this season than it took me last season. Anyone know when we're leaving "preseasons"? I imagine we'll start getting cosmetic cardbacks and stuff at some point.

    Also went 7-1 with a silly dimir deck today, was shocked it did so well and had a ton of fun on stream. Obviously better than pewdiepie, clearly.

    I'm pretty skeptical of that analysis because it essentially takes the same number of wins to earn 2 pips.

    It's essentially saying that if you have an x% win rate in Bo1, that winrate translates to each individual game in Bo3 giving you a higher effective win rate.

    Well consider that in a best of three game, if you win game 1, lose game 2, then win game 3, you still get two pips. In BO1, that would earn you a single pip, as you'd win one, lose one, win one. Makes sense to me and the author is one Frank Karsten, who is in the MTG hall of fame, so I'm guessing his math is fairly accurate.

    Twitch Streaming T/W/TH and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Me on Steam
  • GriswoldGriswold (a superset of all possible mathematics) (his body disintegrated)Registered User regular
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  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    I hate losing due to my own screw-ups. Stupid Biz forgetting which Hostage Taker had an active hostage!

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    CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    I hate losing due to my own screw-ups. Stupid Biz forgetting which Hostage Taker had an active hostage!

    If you hover over the cards in exile, they will point to the correct hostage taker.

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    http://www.ccfa.org/
  • furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited February 21
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    furbat wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    furbat wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    It's way less than a couple of hundred games if you're doing BO3. Getting from diamond to mythic last season doing BO1 it only took be 50-100ish

    But yeah, you gotta have that winrate.

    How is there any difference?

    https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-many-games-do-you-need-to-play-to-hit-mythic-in-mtg-arena/
    Before the unveiling of the Preseason 2 changes, there were fears that ranking up in best-of-three would take considerably more time than ranking up in best-of-one. But in the current implementation, my results show that you get to Mythic faster if you jam best-of-three matches from Gold onward.

    Essentially from gold and up, it's less games on average to rank up. Anecdotally, it took me a lot less time to hit mythic even with a slightly worse winrate using BO3 this season than it took me last season. Anyone know when we're leaving "preseasons"? I imagine we'll start getting cosmetic cardbacks and stuff at some point.

    Also went 7-1 with a silly dimir deck today, was shocked it did so well and had a ton of fun on stream. Obviously better than pewdiepie, clearly.

    I'm pretty skeptical of that analysis because it essentially takes the same number of wins to earn 2 pips.

    It's essentially saying that if you have an x% win rate in Bo1, that winrate translates to each individual game in Bo3 giving you a higher effective win rate.

    Well consider that in a best of three game, if you win game 1, lose game 2, then win game 3, you still get two pips. In BO1, that would earn you a single pip, as you'd win one, lose one, win one. Makes sense to me and the author is one Frank Karsten, who is in the MTG hall of fame, so I'm guessing his math is fairly accurate.

    I mean it's not really an issue of math, he even acknowledges the limitations of his analysis here:
    I compared best-of-one and best-of-three under the assumption that your game win rate is constant in all modes. So for a game win probability P, your match win probability is P^2 + 2(1-P)P^2. Yet if the best players move to best-of-three, then best-of-one may be easier. On the other hand, there is skill in sideboarding that the formula doesn’t account for.

    If you assume that a 60% winrate in Bo1 translates to winning 65% of your Bo3 matches (which is what the article does), it's going to take less time. And maybe that's the case! Also, the instance you provided of a 2-1 record counting as 2 pips is also negated by a 1-2 record costing you 2 pips.

    Also, I keep seeing random Kayas getting played. Every time I see it get played it does work despite it being a 'bad' card. It's pretty annoying to deal with for esper since it prevents azcanta and eats chemister's, it's strong vs rdw and mono-u too.

    furbat on
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    My point of it being way less than a "couple of hundred" games still stands. BO3 is faster, both anecdotally in my experience and many others, and according to people who are likely much better at magic than any of us in this thread. But also BO3 is subjectively more fun so it's worth it for that alone :surprised:

    I don't think my example is negated by that. If you have a positive winrate, such as 60%, you're making better gains than you would by playing BO1, even with those losses bringing you down two pips.

    I can see Kaya being a decent sideboard card, but I feel like she's probably too slow to be terribly effective in Bo1 against stuff like red or mono-u. Against red you have to have creatures in a graveyard for that to work, so against burn you're not seeing enough to really get much life (plus she's not terribly difficult to zap off the board) and the things you hit with her -1 aren't that prevalent. She has some use, but I think there's probably better stuff for the decks that might use her. Planeswalkers are fun though!

    Twitch Streaming T/W/TH and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Me on Steam
  • cncaudatacncaudata Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    My point of it being way less than a "couple of hundred" games still stands. BO3 is faster, both anecdotally in my experience and many others, and according to people who are likely much better at magic than any of us in this thread. But also BO3 is subjectively more fun so it's worth it for that alone :surprised:

    I don't think my example is negated by that. If you have a positive winrate, such as 60%, you're making better gains than you would by playing BO1, even with those losses bringing you down two pips.

    I can see Kaya being a decent sideboard card, but I feel like she's probably too slow to be terribly effective in Bo1 against stuff like red or mono-u. Against red you have to have creatures in a graveyard for that to work, so against burn you're not seeing enough to really get much life (plus she's not terribly difficult to zap off the board) and the things you hit with her -1 aren't that prevalent. She has some use, but I think there's probably better stuff for the decks that might use her. Planeswalkers are fun though!

    What have you been having success with so far in RNA? I went from 65%+ winrate in GRN to like 53% now... I can't seem to pick anything that wins consistently.

    PSN: Broodax- battle.net: broodax#1163
  • milskimilski Their Will comes, at last, to Earth, to the Neath, as a storm crosses the sea. Registered User regular
    furbat wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    furbat wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    furbat wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    It's way less than a couple of hundred games if you're doing BO3. Getting from diamond to mythic last season doing BO1 it only took be 50-100ish

    But yeah, you gotta have that winrate.

    How is there any difference?

    https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-many-games-do-you-need-to-play-to-hit-mythic-in-mtg-arena/
    Before the unveiling of the Preseason 2 changes, there were fears that ranking up in best-of-three would take considerably more time than ranking up in best-of-one. But in the current implementation, my results show that you get to Mythic faster if you jam best-of-three matches from Gold onward.

    Essentially from gold and up, it's less games on average to rank up. Anecdotally, it took me a lot less time to hit mythic even with a slightly worse winrate using BO3 this season than it took me last season. Anyone know when we're leaving "preseasons"? I imagine we'll start getting cosmetic cardbacks and stuff at some point.

    Also went 7-1 with a silly dimir deck today, was shocked it did so well and had a ton of fun on stream. Obviously better than pewdiepie, clearly.

    I'm pretty skeptical of that analysis because it essentially takes the same number of wins to earn 2 pips.

    It's essentially saying that if you have an x% win rate in Bo1, that winrate translates to each individual game in Bo3 giving you a higher effective win rate.

    Well consider that in a best of three game, if you win game 1, lose game 2, then win game 3, you still get two pips. In BO1, that would earn you a single pip, as you'd win one, lose one, win one. Makes sense to me and the author is one Frank Karsten, who is in the MTG hall of fame, so I'm guessing his math is fairly accurate.

    I mean it's not really an issue of math, he even acknowledges the limitations of his analysis here:
    I compared best-of-one and best-of-three under the assumption that your game win rate is constant in all modes. So for a game win probability P, your match win probability is P^2 + 2(1-P)P^2. Yet if the best players move to best-of-three, then best-of-one may be easier. On the other hand, there is skill in sideboarding that the formula doesn’t account for.

    If you assume that a 60% winrate in Bo1 translates to winning 65% of your Bo3 matches (which is what the article does), it's going to take less time. And maybe that's the case! Also, the instance you provided of a 2-1 record counting as 2 pips is also negated by a 1-2 record costing you 2 pips.

    Also, I keep seeing random Kayas getting played. Every time I see it get played it does work despite it being a 'bad' card. It's pretty annoying to deal with for esper since it prevents azcanta and eats chemister's, it's strong vs rdw and mono-u too.

    Marginal advantages in skill are magnified in a Bo3 (or higher) format. Trivially, if I have a 51% winrate I win 51% of Bo1 matches, but if you put me in a Bo99 game suddenly my odds of winning 50 pips at once from a match win are incredibly good.

    I've never really seen Kaya do anything whenever I see her played. For the exact same mana cost as her Mortify deals with Azcanta better and has similar life saved against RDW unless like, Kaya's controller is on the play and RDW stumbles badly.

    High, cold, eternal, immobile, minuscule. You endure; you burn.
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    cncaudata wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    My point of it being way less than a "couple of hundred" games still stands. BO3 is faster, both anecdotally in my experience and many others, and according to people who are likely much better at magic than any of us in this thread. But also BO3 is subjectively more fun so it's worth it for that alone :surprised:

    I don't think my example is negated by that. If you have a positive winrate, such as 60%, you're making better gains than you would by playing BO1, even with those losses bringing you down two pips.

    I can see Kaya being a decent sideboard card, but I feel like she's probably too slow to be terribly effective in Bo1 against stuff like red or mono-u. Against red you have to have creatures in a graveyard for that to work, so against burn you're not seeing enough to really get much life (plus she's not terribly difficult to zap off the board) and the things you hit with her -1 aren't that prevalent. She has some use, but I think there's probably better stuff for the decks that might use her. Planeswalkers are fun though!

    What have you been having success with so far in RNA? I went from 65%+ winrate in GRN to like 53% now... I can't seem to pick anything that wins consistently.

    Sultai still seems pretty good, but I'm definitely not an expert at piloting that one. I made it to mythic with Azorious Aggro. Basically white weenie, but with the blue check/shock lands and counterspells in the sideboard. Some versions are running Deputy of Detention but I went all white and sided in the blue and it worked really well. Apparently Mono Blue is quite good and consistent right now too!

    There's an interesting version of the Nexus deck that runs Hydroid Krasis and that Ooze that keeps getting bigger, that seems fun. Nexus game 1, side out nexus for game 2 and put in the oozes. Wilderness Reclamation+Ooze is terrifying.

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  • ArmorocArmoroc Registered User regular
    I spent some wildcards to make a Nicol Bolas Grixis deck and I've been having a lot of fun with it. It's built for best of one and it just destroys most other decks in gold rank. What kills me consistently though is the lack of red mana in my shuffles. I'm missing some dragonskull summits and I don't have enough wildcards for them.

    It's funny, in that I've been able to flip Bolas into his planewalker consistently, but it's kind of pointless at that point since I'm already winning. Still cool!

  • milskimilski Their Will comes, at last, to Earth, to the Neath, as a storm crosses the sea. Registered User regular
    High, cold, eternal, immobile, minuscule. You endure; you burn.
    Yilias
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    3 Elenda, the Dusk Rose (RIX) 157
    6 Plains (RIX) 192
    6 Swamp (RIX) 194
    4 Basilica Bell-Haunt (RNA) 156
    3 Mortify (RNA) 192
    1 Final Payment (RNA) 171
    2 Seraph of the Scales (RNA) 205
    2 Midnight Reaper (GRN) 77
    2 Judith, the Scourge Diva (RNA) 185
    2 Teysa Karlov (RNA) 212
    4 Godless Shrine (RNA) 248
    3 Isolated Chapel (DAR) 241
    4 Hero of Precinct One (RNA) 11
    4 Pitiless Pontiff (RNA) 194
    4 Imperious Oligarch (RNA) 184
    1 Ethereal Absolution (RNA) 170
    3 Dragonskull Summit (XLN) 252
    2 Clifftop Retreat (DAR) 239
    4 Heroic Reinforcements (M19) 217


    This is what I'm playing around with right now. Any thoughts?

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Bo1 or Bo3?

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    BO1 right now

  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Might want to run two ritual of soots then.

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Might want to run two ritual of soots then.

    indeed

  • milskimilski Their Will comes, at last, to Earth, to the Neath, as a storm crosses the sea. Registered User regular
    3 Elenda, the Dusk Rose (RIX) 157
    6 Plains (RIX) 192
    6 Swamp (RIX) 194
    4 Basilica Bell-Haunt (RNA) 156
    3 Mortify (RNA) 192
    1 Final Payment (RNA) 171
    2 Seraph of the Scales (RNA) 205
    2 Midnight Reaper (GRN) 77
    2 Judith, the Scourge Diva (RNA) 185
    2 Teysa Karlov (RNA) 212
    4 Godless Shrine (RNA) 248
    3 Isolated Chapel (DAR) 241
    4 Hero of Precinct One (RNA) 11
    4 Pitiless Pontiff (RNA) 194
    4 Imperious Oligarch (RNA) 184
    1 Ethereal Absolution (RNA) 170
    3 Dragonskull Summit (XLN) 252
    2 Clifftop Retreat (DAR) 239
    4 Heroic Reinforcements (M19) 217


    This is what I'm playing around with right now. Any thoughts?
    • Needs more dual lands for a three color deck, especially with WB, 1BR, 2WR, and WWBB costs; you're running the hardest to cast duals and still running red cards that you want to curve out into.
    • There's a tension in the deck between the Judith + Hero + Heroic aggro package and the midrange Aristocrats package.
    • For all the sacrifice outlets and death triggers in your deck, you aren't running very many cards that benefit from them. No recursion, no Priest of Forgotten Gods, and 2-3x of all of the sacrifice payoffs in the deck seems rough. Judith is especially weird, since she's a legendary you're fine seeing multiples of, because she acts like a Forked Bolt if you play a second copy (both Judith's trigger on the dying Judith).
    • Final Payment seems too cute; it works for both Hero of Precinct One and as a sacrifice payoff, but you're not committed enough to either plan for an extra token or a sacrifice to be worth your only cheap interaction costing you 5 life instead of gaining you two life.
    • Your curve seems really wonky. You have seven three drops and fifteen four drops, which is a bit top heavy, especially with how a full nine of your four drops are "combo pieces" that you really want to have curved into from a relevant three drop.
    • Ethereal Absolution absolutely seems too cute; a six mana card in a 24 land deck with limited card draw is really questionable; there are absolutely better 5-drops for this sort of deck if you want a big top end (Lyra! Doom Whisperer! Angrath!), and The Immortal Sun is probably a better 6 mana card if you really want to have it in the deck.
    • Imperious Oligarch is.... eeeeeeeeh? I tried playing it in Mardumans before, and it's just not that amazing. 2/1 vigilance is kind of a weird statline.
    • Basilica Bell-Haunt is a fine midrange value card but also doesn't really support either half of this deck's plan that much. In my Esper Hero Value Pile midrange deck it's an auto-include, but it miiiiiiiiight be worth cutting it to either make your semi-janky aristocrats deck hit more frequently, or because it does nothing for Mardumans aggro.

      I think your best bet would be to either focus on the Mardumans aggro strategy, with a limited sacrifice theme: Priest of the Forgotten Gods, Midnight Reaper, 4x Judith, and Footlight Fiend so you can fling cards at your opponent for reach and draw, or focus more heavily on the Aristocrats theme and cut Judith + Heroic and maybe the Heroes in exchange for more payoffs or interaction.

    High, cold, eternal, immobile, minuscule. You endure; you burn.
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited February 22
    Oligarch is fine in some lists, but if you're not playing Hero of Precinct One then it should probably be replaced by Tithe Takers.

    edit: oh you are playing Heroes, misread the list

    KalTorak on
  • milskimilski Their Will comes, at last, to Earth, to the Neath, as a storm crosses the sea. Registered User regular
    Even with Hero I don't like it very much. It isn't quite aggressive or high value enough for the aggro/midrange hero decks, and I think primary Orzhov hero decks tend to be worse than other combinations.

    High, cold, eternal, immobile, minuscule. You endure; you burn.
  • GriswoldGriswold (a superset of all possible mathematics) (his body disintegrated)Registered User regular
    milski wrote: »
    3 Elenda, the Dusk Rose (RIX) 157
    6 Plains (RIX) 192
    6 Swamp (RIX) 194
    4 Basilica Bell-Haunt (RNA) 156
    3 Mortify (RNA) 192
    1 Final Payment (RNA) 171
    2 Seraph of the Scales (RNA) 205
    2 Midnight Reaper (GRN) 77
    2 Judith, the Scourge Diva (RNA) 185
    2 Teysa Karlov (RNA) 212
    4 Godless Shrine (RNA) 248
    3 Isolated Chapel (DAR) 241
    4 Hero of Precinct One (RNA) 11
    4 Pitiless Pontiff (RNA) 194
    4 Imperious Oligarch (RNA) 184
    1 Ethereal Absolution (RNA) 170
    3 Dragonskull Summit (XLN) 252
    2 Clifftop Retreat (DAR) 239
    4 Heroic Reinforcements (M19) 217


    This is what I'm playing around with right now. Any thoughts?
    [*] Needs more dual lands for a three color deck, especially with WB, 1BR, 2WR, and WWBB costs; you're running the hardest to cast duals and still running red cards that you want to curve out into.
    [*] There's a tension in the deck between the Judith + Hero + Heroic aggro package and the midrange Aristocrats package.
    [*] For all the sacrifice outlets and death triggers in your deck, you aren't running very many cards that benefit from them. No recursion, no Priest of Forgotten Gods, and 2-3x of all of the sacrifice payoffs in the deck seems rough. Judith is especially weird, since she's a legendary you're fine seeing multiples of, because she acts like a Forked Bolt if you play a second copy (both Judith's trigger on the dying Judith).
    [*] Final Payment seems too cute; it works for both Hero of Precinct One and as a sacrifice payoff, but you're not committed enough to either plan for an extra token or a sacrifice to be worth your only cheap interaction costing you 5 life instead of gaining you two life.
    [*] Your curve seems really wonky. You have seven three drops and fifteen four drops, which is a bit top heavy, especially with how a full nine of your four drops are "combo pieces" that you really want to have curved into from a relevant three drop.
    [*] Ethereal Absolution absolutely seems too cute; a six mana card in a 24 land deck with limited card draw is really questionable; there are absolutely better 5-drops for this sort of deck if you want a big top end (Lyra! Doom Whisperer! Angrath!), and The Immortal Sun is probably a better 6 mana card if you really want to have it in the deck.
    [*] Imperious Oligarch is.... eeeeeeeeh? I tried playing it in Mardumans before, and it's just not that amazing. 2/1 vigilance is kind of a weird statline.
    [*] Basilica Bell-Haunt is a fine midrange value card but also doesn't really support either half of this deck's plan that much. In my Esper Hero Value Pile midrange deck it's an auto-include, but it miiiiiiiiight be worth cutting it to either make your semi-janky aristocrats deck hit more frequently, or because it does nothing for Mardumans aggro.

    I think your best bet would be to either focus on the Mardumans aggro strategy, with a limited sacrifice theme: Priest of the Forgotten Gods, Midnight Reaper, 4x Judith, and Footlight Fiend so you can fling cards at your opponent for reach and draw, or focus more heavily on the Aristocrats theme and cut Judith + Heroic and maybe the Heroes in exchange for more payoffs or interaction.

    The bolded is the most important piece of feedback by far. You have five red sources for six red spells in a 60-card deck with no card draw or card selection. I don't think it's nearly enough.

    Battle.net: Snowcrash#1873
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  • SuperRuperSuperRuper Registered User regular
    Griswold wrote: »
    milski wrote: »
    3 Elenda, the Dusk Rose (RIX) 157
    6 Plains (RIX) 192
    6 Swamp (RIX) 194
    4 Basilica Bell-Haunt (RNA) 156
    3 Mortify (RNA) 192
    1 Final Payment (RNA) 171
    2 Seraph of the Scales (RNA) 205
    2 Midnight Reaper (GRN) 77
    2 Judith, the Scourge Diva (RNA) 185
    2 Teysa Karlov (RNA) 212
    4 Godless Shrine (RNA) 248
    3 Isolated Chapel (DAR) 241
    4 Hero of Precinct One (RNA) 11
    4 Pitiless Pontiff (RNA) 194
    4 Imperious Oligarch (RNA) 184
    1 Ethereal Absolution (RNA) 170
    3 Dragonskull Summit (XLN) 252
    2 Clifftop Retreat (DAR) 239
    4 Heroic Reinforcements (M19) 217


    This is what I'm playing around with right now. Any thoughts?
    [*] Needs more dual lands for a three color deck, especially with WB, 1BR, 2WR, and WWBB costs; you're running the hardest to cast duals and still running red cards that you want to curve out into.
    [*] There's a tension in the deck between the Judith + Hero + Heroic aggro package and the midrange Aristocrats package.
    [*] For all the sacrifice outlets and death triggers in your deck, you aren't running very many cards that benefit from them. No recursion, no Priest of Forgotten Gods, and 2-3x of all of the sacrifice payoffs in the deck seems rough. Judith is especially weird, since she's a legendary you're fine seeing multiples of, because she acts like a Forked Bolt if you play a second copy (both Judith's trigger on the dying Judith).
    [*] Final Payment seems too cute; it works for both Hero of Precinct One and as a sacrifice payoff, but you're not committed enough to either plan for an extra token or a sacrifice to be worth your only cheap interaction costing you 5 life instead of gaining you two life.
    [*] Your curve seems really wonky. You have seven three drops and fifteen four drops, which is a bit top heavy, especially with how a full nine of your four drops are "combo pieces" that you really want to have curved into from a relevant three drop.
    [*] Ethereal Absolution absolutely seems too cute; a six mana card in a 24 land deck with limited card draw is really questionable; there are absolutely better 5-drops for this sort of deck if you want a big top end (Lyra! Doom Whisperer! Angrath!), and The Immortal Sun is probably a better 6 mana card if you really want to have it in the deck.
    [*] Imperious Oligarch is.... eeeeeeeeh? I tried playing it in Mardumans before, and it's just not that amazing. 2/1 vigilance is kind of a weird statline.
    [*] Basilica Bell-Haunt is a fine midrange value card but also doesn't really support either half of this deck's plan that much. In my Esper Hero Value Pile midrange deck it's an auto-include, but it miiiiiiiiight be worth cutting it to either make your semi-janky aristocrats deck hit more frequently, or because it does nothing for Mardumans aggro.

    I think your best bet would be to either focus on the Mardumans aggro strategy, with a limited sacrifice theme: Priest of the Forgotten Gods, Midnight Reaper, 4x Judith, and Footlight Fiend so you can fling cards at your opponent for reach and draw, or focus more heavily on the Aristocrats theme and cut Judith + Heroic and maybe the Heroes in exchange for more payoffs or interaction.

    The bolded is the most important piece of feedback by far. You have five red sources for six red spells in a 60-card deck with no card draw or card selection. I don't think it's nearly enough.

    It also seems like the only red splash is for Judith and Heroic, which (while great cards) I'm not confident warrants the hit to your mana base. If you're really in for Mardu weenie/sacrifice theme, you should get some more payoffs for using red in there. Direfleet daredevil? Fireblade artist?

    In either case I would cut the oligarchs for footlight fiends. Easier to cast and combo with Hero and Tesa and if you stick to Mardu, Judith.

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    Hahnsoo1
  • milskimilski Their Will comes, at last, to Earth, to the Neath, as a storm crosses the sea. Registered User regular
    Footlight Fiends are not where you want to be if you're going midrange Aristocrats/sacrifice themed, I feel. They techinically benefit from being sacrificed but they're still pretty unreliable interaction. Maybe it works out but I'm convinced they're 1000x better for aggro.

    High, cold, eternal, immobile, minuscule. You endure; you burn.
  • navgoosenavgoose Registered User regular
    My raptor hatchlings and both card draw effects I've tried in my Gruul deck seem to be underperforming (light up the stage and risk factor). The hatchlings get ignored on attack and played around on defense while the card draw cards seem clunky for an aggro deck and don't help.

    I'm considering crafting a second Domri and then swapping the card draw for finds but I dunno what to replace Raptors with or maybe leave them for now..?

    My blue deck could use some tweaks but that's way more straightforward just need to burn the wildcards.

  • milskimilski Their Will comes, at last, to Earth, to the Neath, as a storm crosses the sea. Registered User regular
    Raptor Hatchlings are mediocre in all scenarios.

    LutS and Risk Factor are good when your deck is cheap and you have a lot of reach to deal direct damage. Gruul isn't that, since it is likely a fat midrange deck with powerful/flexible threats at low mana costs and a bit of interaction. Gruul doesn't really want to go out of its way for card draw (Domri might be an exception) since your goal is basically just to stick enough threats to either lock the board and turn the corner against aggro, kill control fairly quickly, or go bigger than sultai and beat them down with Phoenixes.

    High, cold, eternal, immobile, minuscule. You endure; you burn.
    navgooseGriswold
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