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[Fallout] Almost Heaven, West Virginia

11819212324

Posts

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    CroakerBC wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I'm not saying they found it or not, because that doesn't matter. They fucked up is the problem.

    I'm looking at my own bug tracker right now, and on a project of less systemic complexity, and with a QA team which I would imagine is far, far smaller than Bethesda's, we've got somewhere in the region of 200 open defects. These are things people know about and care about, but due to business priorities, resourcing and what have you, haven't been got around to yet.

    If i had to hazard a guess, the Fallout 76 tracker will be large, prioritised daily (or more) and have as many people as they can working on it, given the PR impacts. And their defect count will, I suspect, be an order of magnitude higher than mine.

    I guess I'd suggest a) it is unlikely that the QA involved were incompetent.
    b) it is more than likely that all the issues everyone (including me!) are annoyed about are in their JIRA-equivalent somewhere
    c) those issues are probably just not as much of a priority as all the other bugs we haven't seen, or all the other day to day dev tasks getting done, or any of the new features we're all wanting.
    And d) that doesn't mean that the business/project team screwed up either. They get paid to make the calls on the priorities, and while we may be sitting at the far end of the process, looking at what they chose to leave in given the time and resource available, and wondering why, I guarantee you nobody wants to ship sub-par product.

    Now this isn't to say that I'm thrilled with the state of things on '76. But looking at the state of the game and suggesting it's because QA screwed the pooch, or that whoever's running their team could be equivalent to whoever masterminded canvasgate, or that the project team in charge of the game made the wrong priority calls...doesn't feel right to me. We don't know what calls the folks on the firing line are having to make, or live with.

    Full disclosure: I haven't had many issues with the game either, so my anger/frustration level isn't that high. But if you're annoyed, I'd suggest looking upstream, at the C-level, where the decision to release the game at <time x> to meet revenues for <quarter-y> will have come from. Everyone else will have been firefighting since release day, and I suspect deserve sympathy far more than "You done fucked up"

    It's still an industry recognized thing that Bethesda has the most trouble with bugs. Part of that is that they don't hire segmented teams like other shops, where they'll have a production manager, a content person, etc. Bethesda expects all their staff to be content creators in addition to their other duties. As a result, there's less management between groups to see whether teams are stepping on each other's toes, or to prioritize addressing the bug backlog. It's partially why they're so unique with all the crazy infinite content they have; everyone is always making something cool. There is a clear downside which always shows in their games as well though: they can be somewhat disjointed, the core story isn't always tied to other stuff in a way that suggests an overarching line, and they really struggle with technical debt.

    This isn't just a C-level issue. It's a known eccentricity specific to Bethesda.

    They have also become really bad at managing an IP for consistency. It was very noticeable in Fallout 4, although it is one of the places where I think Fallout 76 shows improvement.

    That goes beyond contradicting their own lore. They are increasingly having issues with syncing up timelines and events within a single game in a way that makes sense.

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    M-Vickers wrote: »
    I finally gave up and uninstalled this last night. What finally broke me is that i need to get to the golf course and do two quests - grab an item, and read some holotapes.

    Since getting the quests, a video came out on youtube showing how to farm xp at the golf course, at any level

    So for the last week, ive been logging in several times a day, to find the clubhouse full of mobs 30 or 40 levels higher than me, as high level characters just camp there, logging in an out over and over.

    So I'm giving up - unless they come out with an offline mode, which i assume is against their vision...

    I had some luck stealthing through the madness, but the respawn system makes that very difficult. It is way too common to enter an empty room, hear a sound, and suddenly be getting mobbed by insta-spawn high level mobs.

    Whitesprings gets nuked a lot, too. I think the best answer is to just avoid it and quest elsewhere.

  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    CroakerBC wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    I'm not saying they found it or not, because that doesn't matter. They fucked up is the problem.

    I'm looking at my own bug tracker right now, and on a project of less systemic complexity, and with a QA team which I would imagine is far, far smaller than Bethesda's, we've got somewhere in the region of 200 open defects. These are things people know about and care about, but due to business priorities, resourcing and what have you, haven't been got around to yet.

    If i had to hazard a guess, the Fallout 76 tracker will be large, prioritised daily (or more) and have as many people as they can working on it, given the PR impacts. And their defect count will, I suspect, be an order of magnitude higher than mine.

    I guess I'd suggest a) it is unlikely that the QA involved were incompetent.
    b) it is more than likely that all the issues everyone (including me!) are annoyed about are in their JIRA-equivalent somewhere
    c) those issues are probably just not as much of a priority as all the other bugs we haven't seen, or all the other day to day dev tasks getting done, or any of the new features we're all wanting.
    And d) that doesn't mean that the business/project team screwed up either. They get paid to make the calls on the priorities, and while we may be sitting at the far end of the process, looking at what they chose to leave in given the time and resource available, and wondering why, I guarantee you nobody wants to ship sub-par product.

    Now this isn't to say that I'm thrilled with the state of things on '76. But looking at the state of the game and suggesting it's because QA screwed the pooch, or that whoever's running their team could be equivalent to whoever masterminded canvasgate, or that the project team in charge of the game made the wrong priority calls...doesn't feel right to me. We don't know what calls the folks on the firing line are having to make, or live with.

    Full disclosure: I haven't had many issues with the game either, so my anger/frustration level isn't that high. But if you're annoyed, I'd suggest looking upstream, at the C-level, where the decision to release the game at <time x> to meet revenues for <quarter-y> will have come from. Everyone else will have been firefighting since release day, and I suspect deserve sympathy far more than "You done fucked up"

    It's still an industry recognized thing that Bethesda has the most trouble with bugs. Part of that is that they don't hire segmented teams like other shops, where they'll have a production manager, a content person, etc. Bethesda expects all their staff to be content creators in addition to their other duties. As a result, there's less management between groups to see whether teams are stepping on each other's toes, or to prioritize addressing the bug backlog. It's partially why they're so unique with all the crazy infinite content they have; everyone is always making something cool. There is a clear downside which always shows in their games as well though: they can be somewhat disjointed, the core story isn't always tied to other stuff in a way that suggests an overarching line, and they really struggle with technical debt.

    This isn't just a C-level issue. It's a known eccentricity specific to Bethesda.

    They have also become really bad at managing an IP for consistency. It was very noticeable in Fallout 4, although it is one of the places where I think Fallout 76 shows improvement.

    That goes beyond contradicting their own lore. They are increasingly having issues with syncing up timelines and events within a single game in a way that makes sense.

    That's in part because their design process doesn't call for storyline managers or any of the stuff most companies do. They have folks do free for all content creation. Which works really well until it doesn't.

    What is this I don't even.
    Phillishere
  • SiskaSiska Shorty Registered User regular
    Is there any way to tell which weapons benefits from which perks?

    Izuela.png
  • Alex WilderAlex Wilder Registered User regular
    Siska wrote: »
    Is there any way to tell which weapons benefits from which perks?

    Not in game. The easiest way is to directly google it or if you aren't finding an answer look up how the weapon was classified in FO4.

    Time is a flat circle
  • RonaldoTheGypsyRonaldoTheGypsy Or just "Ron" Registered User regular
    I have bear arms equipped (heavy weapons weigh 90% less) so I use that as a gauge to tell what weapons are considered heavy weapons.

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Remind me, please, not to set up my CAMP in The Mire again. Every time I teleported to it there was a Scorchbeast circling overhead. Finally moved it just over the mountains to the west where it's nice and peaceful but not ruinously expensive to fast travel to Mire locations.

    Styrofoam Sammich
  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    Fairchild wrote: »
    Remind me, please, not to set up my CAMP in The Mire again. Every time I teleported to it there was a Scorchbeast circling overhead. Finally moved it just over the mountains to the west where it's nice and peaceful but not ruinously expensive to fast travel to Mire locations.

    Yeah, there's quite a few fissure sites in the Mire. I actually had my camp there for quite a long time without issue, but it was way over to the East, near the General Atomics building, far away from any fissures.

    5gsowHm.png
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    The dried out lake bed near the capitol building is the only place I've put my camp without issue.

  • cptruggedcptrugged Buster Machine Registered User regular
    The dried out lake bed near the capitol building is the only place I've put my camp without issue.

    I had a great spot just south east of The Top of the World. It had this great little creek running through it. It was nice cause I was doing the Rose quests at the time so it was convenient.

    But then I found a non workstation junk extractor spot and put my house there so I can mine screws, springs, and gears
    (This worlds most valuable currency).

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited December 5
    The dried out lake bed near the capitol building is the only place I've put my camp without issue.

    I’ve had a camp next to the slope down to the crashed space station for awhile. The only downside is that its so far north that its not great for fast travel, but I use the Vault to compensate.

    Phillishere on
  • NorgothNorgoth Registered User regular
    I’m set up by the hotel that gives the bomb difusal daily, but there’s a junk point there, it’s pretty far from the Vault for fast travel and right next to cranberry bogs and Harper’s ferry.

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Syngyne wrote: »
    Fairchild wrote: »
    Remind me, please, not to set up my CAMP in The Mire again. Every time I teleported to it there was a Scorchbeast circling overhead. Finally moved it just over the mountains to the west where it's nice and peaceful but not ruinously expensive to fast travel to Mire locations.

    Yeah, there's quite a few fissure sites in the Mire. I actually had my camp there for quite a long time without issue, but it was way over to the East, near the General Atomics building, far away from any fissures.

    Heh, yes, I was near Mosstown, which it turns out has a Fissure next to it. Oops.

  • NorgothNorgoth Registered User regular
    Any turrets above the basic ones (except maybe shotguns) can give a scorchbeast a nasty fright.

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I hate to come in with bad news but
    A Bethesda web glitch today revealed everyone’s support tickets, including personal info.
    Like home address info and all that. So. Y'know.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
    Styrofoam SammichDonnictonCogTOGSolidA Kobold's KoboldYerMumAxenThe DeliveratorcptruggedHeffling
  • Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie Future world ruler Registered User regular
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if this all doesn’t end in major resignations at the top. Even cutting through the Internet bullshit, this feels bigger than a single bad game.

    PreacherDr. Phibbs McAtheyCogA Kobold's KoboldYerMumThe DeliveratorAxenBlackbird SR-71CfurlionJeep-EepHefflingMvrckFencingsax
  • CogCog I'm festive as fuck. Registered User regular
    I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if this all doesn’t end in major resignations at the top. Even cutting through the Internet bullshit, this feels bigger than a single bad game.

    Yeah... these sort of problems on this scale are cultural.

    PhillishereA Kobold's KoboldAxenThe DeliveratorCroakerBCJeep-EepHefflingFencingsax
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
  • YerMumYerMum Registered User regular
    Cog wrote: »
    I honestly wouldn’t be shocked if this all doesn’t end in major resignations at the top. Even cutting through the Internet bullshit, this feels bigger than a single bad game.

    Yeah... these sort of problems on this scale are cultural.

    Yeah this is CTO/CIO level stuff, shitty information security policy, data governance, development processes, infrastructure etc etc

    Rugged individualist
    3DS Friend Code - 3437-3066-2510

    Pugilation.jpg
    Destiny Profile : http://www.bungie.net/en/Profile/254/7028016
    Jeep-Eep
  • StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    And now, somewhere in Maryland an IT manager is looking for a job this week...

    Or worse - NOT looking for a job.

    I was killing Thresher Maws on foot before I knew it was a Krogan rite of passage.
    Commander ZoomCorsini
  • XeddicusXeddicus Registered User regular
    Fairchild wrote: »
    I was wrong, the patch to fix the patch seems to be going in tonite.

    Alas, it did not.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie Future world ruler Registered User regular
    I found a seemingly random deposit of black titanium on the western end of Toxic Valley, so I dropped my camp on it and built an extractor which is generating 25 ore/hour, so figure I'll mine that for a few days and have a nice stockpile by the time I need it for anything (level 13 character). Sweet. :D

    cptrugged
  • furlionfurlion Riskbreaker Lea MondeRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    I hate to come in with bad news but
    A Bethesda web glitch today revealed everyone’s support tickets, including personal info.
    Like home address info and all that. So. Y'know.

    First comment I saw on the article said to report them for a GDPR breach since Zenimax is located in the UK. Aren't the fines for that potentially pretty hefty?

    sig.gif Gamertag: KL Retribution
    PSN:Furlion
    Jeep-Eep
  • NorgothNorgoth Registered User regular
    furlion wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I hate to come in with bad news but
    A Bethesda web glitch today revealed everyone’s support tickets, including personal info.
    Like home address info and all that. So. Y'know.

    First comment I saw on the article said to report them for a GDPR breach since Zenimax is located in the UK. Aren't the fines for that potentially pretty hefty?

    It’s up to 4% turnover or €20million whichever is higher.

  • Skull2185Skull2185 In Greece, misthios. Number one. Lethal hands. One day, malakas need attitude adjustment. I kill malakas. Registered User regular
    Cripes man... how fitting is it that it wasn't some "hacker" breaching that info, but rather a glitch on Bethesda's end.

    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
    StrikorJeep-EepCogfurlion
  • StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    edited December 6
    At least they don't have any other PR nightmares going on lately.

    Maybe they can give 500 atoms to everyone who potentially had their personal information stolen by submitting their personal information?

    Strikor on
    I was killing Thresher Maws on foot before I knew it was a Krogan rite of passage.
    Sir CarcassAxenCogYerMumCommander Zoom
  • Skull2185Skull2185 In Greece, misthios. Number one. Lethal hands. One day, malakas need attitude adjustment. I kill malakas. Registered User regular
    I wonder how much of a negative impact all this will have on upcoming Bethesda published games like Doom and Rage 2.

    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    I wonder how much of a negative impact all this will have on upcoming Bethesda published games like Doom and Rage 2.

    It might make sense at this point to make the ID logo very large and put the Bethesda logo on the back of the box.

    NotoriusBENAxenfurlionFencingsax
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    And launch on Steam.

    Anon the FelonSir CarcassStrikorNotoriusBENfurlionTOGSolidCommander ZoomAegisFencingsax
  • StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    I wonder how much of a negative impact all this will have on upcoming Bethesda published games like Doom and Rage 2.

    It might make sense at this point to make the ID logo very large and put the Bethesda logo on the back of the box.

    They could change their name and hope no one catches on, like Blackwater did after some uh, incidents.

    I was killing Thresher Maws on foot before I knew it was a Krogan rite of passage.
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    It's almost like Bethesda has no idea how to do online services and games, and instead of hiring people who do or investing in learning how to handle online services, they figured "let's wing it and learn on the fly."

    What is this I don't even.
    urahonkyStrikorPhillishereCommander ZoomFencingsax
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    I really hope their next Elder Scrolls game has 0 online functionality. Or at least separate the two.

    Jeep-EepChiselphane
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    It's almost like Bethesda has no idea how to do online services and games, and instead of hiring people who do or investing in learning how to handle online services, they figured "let's wing it and learn on the fly."

    I can almost see it working. There's a really good Bethesda game hidden in Fallout 76, and Bethesda literally has decades of experience with putting out some of the buggiest games in the industry, getting great reviews and sales, and then having the fans fix the issues on their own.

    This is a company that has sold Skyrim on multiple devices over the years not only without updating the game but also without fixing major, known bugs in any of the versions. I'm not shocked that they thought they could sell what is essentially an Early Access title for full price and have the audience accept it as just more "Lol Bethesda."

    Fencingsax
  • Jeep-EepJeep-Eep Registered User regular
    Jesus Christ, did someone from Obsidian make a deal with a witch to curse Beth; because if they did, they got their money's worth.

    StrikorAxen
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    Strikor wrote: »
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    I wonder how much of a negative impact all this will have on upcoming Bethesda published games like Doom and Rage 2.

    It might make sense at this point to make the ID logo very large and put the Bethesda logo on the back of the box.

    They could change their name and hope no one catches on, like Blackwater did after some uh, incidents.

    And it worked! I remember being in Afghanistan talking to a PMC and asking them what company they were with. They gave me whatever name it was and the conversation played out like this,

    Me: "Never heard of ya."
    PMC: "Yeah we use Blackwater."
    Me: "You fucking kidding me?"
    PMC: "Nah man, all they did was change the name. I didn't even miss a paycheck."
    Me: "They uh still hiring?'

    Strikor
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Someone mentioned earlier that this game really tries to force you into Power Armor at higher levels, and I'm learning the truth to that. My stealthy sniper works just fine outdoors with long engagement ranges and plenty of room to maneuver, but once he goes indoors with those cramped, claustrophobic hallways he really struggles, especially against bullet sponges like Super Mutants and Mole Men who close the range and then the melee stunning and long reloading animations become fatal.

    Has anyone built the Excavator Armor, is it worth it or am I better off with conventional Power Armor ?

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Jeep-Eep wrote: »
    Jesus Christ, did someone from Obsidian make a deal with a witch to curse Beth; because if they did, they got their money's worth.

    A Metacritic bonus worth, you might even say.

    PSN: Donnicton - Switch FC: SW-6944-1374-2020 - Wii/3DS FC: 1633-4230-5354 - Steam: Donnicton - BNet: Donnicton#11763
    Sir CarcassfurlionStrikorFencingsax
  • ZavianZavian Senātus Populusque Rōmānus Registered User regular
    Doing quests has become quite the chore. I'm lvl 18 doing quests, and I have to beat a wendigo enemy to complete quest. Wendigo is lvl 32. I waste all my ammo and grenades, get it down to low health... then it kills me. I respawn, and oh look, Mr. Wendigo is back to full health. Without grenades I can't get his health down enough to kill him. Why must they make quest mobs so overleveled? After the 5th attempt I'm pretty much giving up on this wendigo quest.

    Steam - PSN: Zavian2099
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