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[Fallout] Remember when we said no NPC's or Companions in West Virginia ? Never mind.

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Posts

  • CreganTurCreganTur Registered User regular
    Cog wrote: »
    TES 6 went from a sure purchase to "lol no. If it's universally lauded as a lifechanging experience, maybe I'll give it a look, but otherwise no" based completely on how bad a taste I got from 76.

    This is similar to my reaction. Bethesda has dropped from a "Day 1 publisher" for me to "only if the reviews are great and the sale is good."

    The reaction to Bethesda has been interesting to watch. If this event had happened in isolation from the rest of this year I believe Bethesda's good will would have bought them much more leniency. However, given that this year has seen major missteps from numerous major publishers, the well was already nearing empty when Bethesda's turn came around.

    Shamus wrote a great article about Bethesda that alludes to Fallout 76 being a culmination of bad culture and decision making. His followup article about the "bag" situation adds some more weight to this idea.

    Combining this with his Mass Effect retrospective, where he discusses how the bad ending can be traced through storytelling changes starting from the beginning of ME2, is making me see all of this in a different light. My opinion is that Fallout 76 and all it's issues are the most recent symptom of issues that have existed for a very long time.

    Morrowind is where I begin my personal thought process because it was my first Bethesda game, but also because of how powerful and solid its main narrative is. Morrowind is where Bethesda's world building and storytelling skills mesh the best and support each other to create a memorable experience that is still lauded. The main narrative leads the player to become a mythic figure.

    Oblivion's main story is quite different. Instead of being the mythic figure you're cast as the right hand man of the mythic figure. Personally I don't like that change, but there is compelling narrative to be told here. However, the main quest is one I never completed in this game because the Oblivion gates quickly stopped being fun and became a chore. I stopped caring about Martin because he never did anything that made me want to follow him as a leader.

    All of the greatest moments I experienced in Oblivion happened outside of the main quest. I'm very happy that the side content is so rich and rife with potential for exploration, but I hate that the main quest quickly bogs down to a chore.

    This is also one of the first major points where people start pointing out the major bugs inherent in the engine.

    Next comes Fallout 3. There are many things about this game I love. The ruins of DC are a wonderful environment to explore and there are sidequests that I truly enjoy here. But, the main quest is not good. There are numerous writers who have analyzed the problems with this main quest much better than I could, so I'm not going to expound on this. The story of the main quest has lots of problems. The engine issues also persist.

    Fallout: New Vegas doesn't fit here because it was developed by Obsidian, but it does serve as a counterpoint of a very good main quest.

    Skyrim's main quest is much better than the previous 2 Bethesda games. I've played through it multiple times, but unfortunately the problems with storytelling didn't disappear- they just got pushed to the side content.

    The Civil War is a broken experience that contains no resolution. There's also a great argument to be made that there is no reason to stop the Dragonborn from becoming High King. In fact it should be an option, but it's one that's never explored. The thieves guild quest line is mechanically damaged. There are also many bugs that still have never been addressed in the engine.

    Fallout 4's main story, especially the Institute, contains a lot of poorly written/conceived plot, as well as even more engine bugs that should have been fixed long ago.

    There's so much more that could be said about all of this, but I think my very rough sketch shows a history of issues that, when combined with chasing the "live services" business model, provides a roadmap of how Bethesda ended up here.

  • CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I don’t remember where I read it but a good summary I’ve seen is that as time has gone on, Bethesda have consistently shied further away from forcing the player into difficult choices in favor of making sure they can experience everything.

    In subsequent releases your choices are less impactful and decisions that irrevocably set you on one path or another are delayed until later and later, or the impact of those paths are further diminished.

    Fallout 4’s dialogue was a good example of this (yes, sarcastic yes, yes later, no but really yes) and decisions like joining the BoS could be put off until the very late end-game.

    76 is the culmination where your choice is to be a passive observer in the plot (you perform some fetch/kill missions but that just unlocks the next time the plot talks at you), or to simply not partake in it wholesale. Which does not sacrifice your ability to continue it later if you want.

    Cog on
  • CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    I mean shit with no true NPCs, you can’t even slaughter them and make them hate you and lock yourself out of questlines.

    Maybe that was a hamfisted way to solve the fact that you can’t load a save in an online game if you fuck yourself accidentally?

    Can’t aggro the quest NPC if they’re already dead.

  • ZavianZavian universal peace sounds better than forever war Registered User regular
    I wasn't a fan of Fallout 4 vanilla, but Far Harbor was my fav Fallout questline in the series

  • Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    In the end, warts and all, 76 is still my favorite Fallout. Whatever complaints I might have about it (which are minor, overall), I'm just having bucketloads of fun. :D

    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Cog wrote: »
    I mean shit with no true NPCs, you can’t even slaughter them and make them hate you and lock yourself out of questlines.

    Maybe that was a hamfisted way to solve the fact that you can’t load a save in an online game if you fuck yourself accidentally?

    Can’t aggro the quest NPC if they’re already dead.

    I suspect they are also being conservative about the number of active NPCs and AI behavior that needs to be pushed through the server. Honestly, they should have just gone open access for a bit, and used the time to work out some of these issues while still being able to call it a beta.

  • CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    In the end, warts and all, 76 is still my favorite Fallout. Whatever complaints I might have about it (which are minor, overall), I'm just having bucketloads of fun. :D

    For all my bagging on it, I do want to be clear I never feel anyone is wrong for enjoying it. There’s totally fun stuff in the game.

  • Skull2185Skull2185 Registered User regular
    I don't think the FO76 kerfuffle is enough to put me off of Day 1ing TESVI. The only way I don't pick that up at launch (in the next decade or so) is if it turns out to be TES76 with online shared world stuff I don't want.

    Everyone has a price. Throw enough gold around and someone will risk disintegration.
  • AxenAxen My avatar is Excalibur. Yes, the sword.Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Cog wrote: »
    In the end, warts and all, 76 is still my favorite Fallout. Whatever complaints I might have about it (which are minor, overall), I'm just having bucketloads of fun. :D

    For all my bagging on it, I do want to be clear I never feel anyone is wrong for enjoying it. There’s totally fun stuff in the game.

    Indeed!

    Lord knows I've legitimately enjoyed my fair share of "bad" games. "Bad" in this case meaning from a technical sense, because clearly if I enjoyed them then I still found them fun.

    Axen on
    A Capellan's favorite sheath for any blade is your back.
  • LucascraftLucascraft Registered User regular
    They either lowered the CAMP budget, or they increased the cost of some things, because I logged in to my camp being way over budget. That was kind of annoying. The budget is just too tiny to have much fun with.

    This post, plus the general conversation that this game is more MMO and less survival builder leads me to believe that this game probably isn't for me. I was hoping for a really in-depth, big budget survival builder with a lot more to offer than the current offerings on the market.

    Guess I'll keep waiting for that.

    My dream is that Blizzard makes either a Starcraft survival builder, where all players are terrans, and are building outposts on a zerg infested world that also sees occasional Protoss incursions as scripted events, or else a Warcraft survival builder that would have elements of RTS mixed in. Like. Imagine if you will Brutal Legend from the PS3 era, with survival building, and Warcraft on top.

    I'd also be very happy with a full Fallout themed survival builder, where players have to work together to build settlements to survive the wasteland. But it sounds like the "settlement" part does not exist in FO76.

  • mojojoeomojojoeo A block off the park, living the dream.Registered User regular
    Skull2185 wrote: »
    I don't think the FO76 kerfuffle is enough to put me off of Day 1ing TESVI. The only way I don't pick that up at launch (in the next decade or so) is if it turns out to be TES76 with online shared world stuff I don't want.

    Mod support is all that puts me off day one bethesda games. Mods make thier games sing and work. They take that away im out.

    Fo76 gets a pass for multiplayer.

    Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    But it sounds like the "settlement" part does not exist in FO76.

    It kinda-sorta does, but on a much smaller scale than compared with, say, CONAN EXILES. In FO76 you can build a shack or even a small house- some of the CAMPs that I've seen online have been quite impressive-- but unless you closely coordinate with other players online, you can't build FO4 scale settlements.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Fairchild wrote: »
    But it sounds like the "settlement" part does not exist in FO76.

    It kinda-sorta does, but on a much smaller scale than compared with, say, CONAN EXILES. In FO76 you can build a shack or even a small house- some of the CAMPs that I've seen online have been quite impressive-- but unless you closely coordinate with other players online, you can't build FO4 scale settlements.

    It's really weird, in that Fallout 4 felt like a conservative dip of the toe in the survival building space, but their actual entry into the genre is actually far more limited and tentative than the base building there.

  • cptruggedcptrugged I think it has something to do with free will. Registered User regular
    Fairchild wrote: »
    But it sounds like the "settlement" part does not exist in FO76.

    It kinda-sorta does, but on a much smaller scale than compared with, say, CONAN EXILES. In FO76 you can build a shack or even a small house- some of the CAMPs that I've seen online have been quite impressive-- but unless you closely coordinate with other players online, you can't build FO4 scale settlements.

    It's really weird, in that Fallout 4 felt like a conservative dip of the toe in the survival building space, but their actual entry into the genre is actually far more limited and tentative than the base building there.

    I think this is due to their dip into the multiplayer aspect. They are trying to keep it conservative because I'm betting they fear if someone makes that 40 story dong shaped dream home that it will crash all their servers or some such.

    I bet that as they iron out more bugs and make the servers more stable they will probably expand the building aspect.

    Right now this game is definitely survival builder lite with a fallout skin. Which is still great. But they could definitely expand on the idea.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    cptrugged wrote: »
    Fairchild wrote: »
    But it sounds like the "settlement" part does not exist in FO76.

    It kinda-sorta does, but on a much smaller scale than compared with, say, CONAN EXILES. In FO76 you can build a shack or even a small house- some of the CAMPs that I've seen online have been quite impressive-- but unless you closely coordinate with other players online, you can't build FO4 scale settlements.

    It's really weird, in that Fallout 4 felt like a conservative dip of the toe in the survival building space, but their actual entry into the genre is actually far more limited and tentative than the base building there.

    I think this is due to their dip into the multiplayer aspect. They are trying to keep it conservative because I'm betting they fear if someone makes that 40 story dong shaped dream home that it will crash all their servers or some such.

    I bet that as they iron out more bugs and make the servers more stable they will probably expand the building aspect.

    Right now this game is definitely survival builder lite with a fallout skin. Which is still great. But they could definitely expand on the idea.

    That's why I think they should have embraced Open Access. This is obviously a tentative, early build that they want to build features around, but that doesn't gel well with a full commercial release these days. Just by putting that tag there (and maybe foregoing console versions for a bit), the reviews would be changed to, "Fallout 76 is a promising start that I am eager to follow as it heads toward full release."

    Phillishere on
  • cptruggedcptrugged I think it has something to do with free will. Registered User regular
    I mean. If the servers were very stable, the workshop aspect of the game could be an amazing builder / pvp aspect. You get this whole other area to build with expanded resources and budget but have the possibility of having to defend it.

    I imagine that would be pretty interesting as holding some of the workshops becomes a team activity.

    Buuuut, not only did they just nerf the workshops, the crashs and disconnects render your ability to hold them a crap shoot. So it's a system that has a ton of potential with little payoff right now. There are fewer things that frustrate me more right now than taking a workshop, dropping a fusion reactor, running all the defenses and power to resource collectors only to 10 minutes later see the dreaded "Server not responding, Controls temporarily disabled" message.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    cptrugged wrote: »
    I mean. If the servers were very stable, the workshop aspect of the game could be an amazing builder / pvp aspect. You get this whole other area to build with expanded resources and budget but have the possibility of having to defend it.

    I imagine that would be pretty interesting as holding some of the workshops becomes a team activity.

    Buuuut, not only did they just nerf the workshops, the crashs and disconnects render your ability to hold them a crap shoot. So it's a system that has a ton of potential with little payoff right now. There are fewer things that frustrate me more right now than taking a workshop, dropping a fusion reactor, running all the defenses and power to resource collectors only to 10 minutes later see the dreaded "Server not responding, Controls temporarily disabled" message.

    And while I cannot verify if this is just happenstance, it certainly seems like I get a lot more disconnects when I engage with the workshop and the free-for-all online events than when I'm just out exploring the world.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Cog wrote: »
    I don’t remember where I read it but a good summary I’ve seen is that as time has gone on, Bethesda have consistently shied further away from forcing the player into difficult choices in favor of making sure they can experience everything.

    In subsequent releases your choices are less impactful and decisions that irrevocably set you on one path or another are delayed until later and later, or the impact of those paths are further diminished.

    Fallout 4’s dialogue was a good example of this (yes, sarcastic yes, yes later, no but really yes) and decisions like joining the BoS could be put off until the very late end-game.

    76 is the culmination where your choice is to be a passive observer in the plot (you perform some fetch/kill missions but that just unlocks the next time the plot talks at you), or to simply not partake in it wholesale. Which does not sacrifice your ability to continue it later if you want.

    The changes in guild advancement between Morrowwind and Skyrim are a good example. You had to actually be good at particular kinds of magic to get anywhere with the Mage's guild for instance.
    cptrugged wrote: »
    I mean. If the servers were very stable, the workshop aspect of the game could be an amazing builder / pvp aspect. You get this whole other area to build with expanded resources and budget but have the possibility of having to defend it.

    I imagine that would be pretty interesting as holding some of the workshops becomes a team activity.

    Buuuut, not only did they just nerf the workshops, the crashs and disconnects render your ability to hold them a crap shoot. So it's a system that has a ton of potential with little payoff right now. There are fewer things that frustrate me more right now than taking a workshop, dropping a fusion reactor, running all the defenses and power to resource collectors only to 10 minutes later see the dreaded "Server not responding, Controls temporarily disabled" message.

    And while I cannot verify if this is just happenstance, it certainly seems like I get a lot more disconnects when I engage with the workshop and the free-for-all online events than when I'm just out exploring the world.

    Most of my disconnects are during events.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • SirialisSirialis of the Halite Throne. Registered User regular
    If they really do offer lootboxes with extra carry capacity after their spiel about them having issues upping the Stash limit etc.

    They can go fuck themselves then.

  • Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    Apparently you can only have five character slots. I ran into this limit last night. Now I am sad. I hope they add/sell slots at some point [soon]...

    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    cptrugged wrote: »
    everyone makes that 40 story dong shaped dream home

    Fixed.

  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. normal (not weird)Registered User regular
    A dongscape

    wq09t4opzrlc.jpg
  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    the dongageddon

    5gsowHm.png
  • cptruggedcptrugged I think it has something to do with free will. Registered User regular
    What are folk's favorite heavy weapons? I'm trying to find ones that have a solid damage output while being fun to use. Are things like the broadsider or harpoon gun even viable as actual consistent weapons?

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    cptrugged wrote: »
    What are folk's favorite heavy weapons? I'm trying to find ones that have a solid damage output while being fun to use. Are things like the broadsider or harpoon gun even viable as actual consistent weapons?

    The non-automatic assault rifles plus stacking rifleman perks have been my go-to in Fallout for a long time. It does double duty because the perks transfer to a backup sniper rifle.

    Phillishere on
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    I'm eager to try the .50 Caliber M2 once I hit Level 25, which should be tonite.

  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    cptrugged wrote: »
    What are folk's favorite heavy weapons? I'm trying to find ones that have a solid damage output while being fun to use. Are things like the broadsider or harpoon gun even viable as actual consistent weapons?

    The non-automatic assault rifles plus stacking rifleman perks have been my go-to in Fallout for a long time. It does double duty because the perks transfer to a backup sniper rifle.

    Pair them up with the Vats perks and armour mods to pop skulls with each lever rifle round like the worlds coolest cowboy.

  • SirialisSirialis of the Halite Throne. Registered User regular
    Also if you go Rifleman and only plan on using 3 perk cards on damage, dont get Rifleman rank 3 (+20% damage), get Rifleman rank 1 (+10%), Expert Rifleman rank 1 (+10%) and Master Rifleman rank 1 (+10%) instead.

  • cptruggedcptrugged I think it has something to do with free will. Registered User regular
    Was looking for more of recommendations in the Heavy Weapons category. My rifleman character is strong and has an amazing alpha strike out of stealth. But I have an old love for the big heavy weapons so I've finally got a good heavy character built up. But so far I've only found the .50 cal and flamer to really be consistent. I saw a video that seemed to show the hand crank Gatling to do some work. But I was wondering if folks have had good experiences trying to use some of the ones I've never gotten my hands on, like a gatling laser, broadsider, or tesla rifle.

  • Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    I dunno about 76, but I had a ridiculous amount of fun with the Broadsider in FO4. It wasn't ideal. But it was fun.

    In not-big-guns talk, I fell in love with good ol' double-barrel shotguns last night. Holy cow is it fun to blast things with a sawed-off...

    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
  • SyngyneSyngyne Registered User regular
    Fairchild wrote: »
    I'm eager to try the .50 Caliber M2 once I hit Level 25, which should be tonite.

    The ma deuce with heavy gunner perks does work. Even better if you pick up the Stabilized (+accuracy when in power armor) and One Gun Army (chance to stagger and I think ignore some % of armor) perks. It’s my go-to weapn for big bads, or if I get swarmed by a bunch of mobs I can’t semi auto or Grognak my way out of in a timely manner.

    5gsowHm.png
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    I dunno about 76, but I had a ridiculous amount of fun with the Broadsider in FO4. It wasn't ideal. But it was fun.

    In not-big-guns talk, I fell in love with good ol' double-barrel shotguns last night. Holy cow is it fun to blast things with a sawed-off...

    I was using the shotgun you get from the Prison quest for a long time until some random Mole Rat dropped a Suppressed Snappy Pump Shotgun.

    A suppressed shotgun ? Anyway, my goodness does this thing prod buttock.

  • Pixelated PixiePixelated Pixie They/Them Registered User regular
    Yeah, the pump shotgun was my go-to until now, and I was super reluctant to even try out the double-barrel one because of having to reload every other shot, but it is so worth it.

    ~~ Pixie on Steam ~~
    ironzerg wrote: »
    Chipmunks are like nature's nipple clamps, I guess?
  • cptruggedcptrugged I think it has something to do with free will. Registered User regular
    I do have the most silly alpha strike on my rifleman thought. I found a black powder rifle that shoots an extra bullet when it fires. So that means out of stealth I'm doing 480 x 2 x 2.5. My first big use of it was one shotting the lvl 50 deathclaws in this one quest cave I was in.

  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    I want a magic gun. Instead all I get are things like pool cues that work better at night or walking canes that work better if I'm addicted to something.

  • SirialisSirialis of the Halite Throne. Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    I want an Assault Rifle that shoots explosive rounds and a bleed shotgun which is what I had in F4, yet I keep getting small melee weapons with stupid perks.

    Sirialis on
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    I want a billion dollars and Kate Upton's cellphone number, but here I am playing FALLOUT 76 instead.

  • ChiselphaneChiselphane Registered User regular
    I dunno about 76, but I had a ridiculous amount of fun with the Broadsider in FO4. It wasn't ideal. But it was fun.

    In not-big-guns talk, I fell in love with good ol' double-barrel shotguns last night. Holy cow is it fun to blast things with a sawed-off...

    Everything about the Broadsider, especially how you get it, is maybe my favorite thing about FO4. I am a big naval history guy and it was just so wonderful.

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    I want a magic gun. Instead all I get are things like pool cues that work better at night or walking canes that work better if I'm addicted to something.

    The gamma gun is a lot of fun to whip out when someone wants to PvP. That thing just makes people panic.

  • CogCog What'd you expect? Registered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    I want a magic gun. Instead all I get are things like pool cues that work better at night or walking canes that work better if I'm addicted to something.

    These both sort of make sense in a really odd way.

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