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[Canadian Politics] Takin' out the trash to replace it with... whoops.

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Posts

  • Descendant XDescendant X Outpost 31Registered User regular
    We just need to remember that we vote for the MPs we want representing us, not the leader of the party.

    (he said, while dipping his cookie in a nice warm mug of his tears.)

    Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time, I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
    Disco11ArcticLancerCanadianWolverine
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    oldmanken wrote: »
    Yeah, and they have nobody to blame but themselves... terrible terrible over-reach.

    Can we get a new leader??? Preferably Chrystia Freeland?

    Can we elect zombie jack layton?

    :so_raven:
    CanadianWolverineJohn C. Turbine
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Jody Wilson-Raybould is actually my MP. So my choice is actually pretty simple.

    Caedwyr on
    CanadianWolverine
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Super glad he decided to not pursue election reform and keep FPTP

    PSN: Canadian_llama
    Caulk Bite 6
  • Descendant XDescendant X Outpost 31Registered User regular
    Fuck. What did you have to remind me of that?

    Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time, I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
  • The Cow KingThe Cow King a island Registered User regular
    Its fun cause a lot of the public probably supports canadian companies exploiting other nations, hell its the basis of our wealth

    The cons woulda done the same thing but now they get to pretend they are some how more noble

    Oh liberals you desperatly need to change

    icGJy2C.png
    Disco11BroloShadowen
  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    wellp, guess I'm once again throwing my vote away going NDP.

    Do... Re.... Mi... Ti... La...
    Do... Re... Mi... So... Fa.... Do... Re.... Do...
    Forget it...
  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    Maybe I'm jaded but I'm neither surprised nor concerned by all this and I suppose I should be, but the Conservatives would have done the same sooooooo yeah.

    So they wanted her to go with the DPA, and did they not pass legislation to specifically allow that previous to all this?

    AridholGnome-InterruptusShadowen
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Nosf wrote: »
    Maybe I'm jaded but I'm neither surprised nor concerned by all this and I suppose I should be, but the Conservatives would have done the same sooooooo yeah.

    So they wanted her to go with the DPA, and did they not pass legislation to specifically allow that previous to all this?

    Just sucks to lose the moral high ground.... We are in the mud with the rest of the pigs at this point.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
    Descendant XApogee
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    For fuck sake, Liberals. Clutching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    TubularLuggage on
    Caulk Bite 6
  • CorporateGoonCorporateGoon Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    Maybe I'm jaded but I'm neither surprised nor concerned by all this and I suppose I should be, but the Conservatives would have done the same sooooooo yeah.

    So they wanted her to go with the DPA, and did they not pass legislation to specifically allow that previous to all this?

    Just sucks to lose the moral high ground.... We are in the mud with the rest of the pigs at this point.

    No one took any bribes (that we know of) and no one died. The moral low ground is comparatively high in this country

  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    Maybe I'm jaded but I'm neither surprised nor concerned by all this and I suppose I should be, but the Conservatives would have done the same sooooooo yeah.

    So they wanted her to go with the DPA, and did they not pass legislation to specifically allow that previous to all this?

    Just sucks to lose the moral high ground.... We are in the mud with the rest of the pigs at this point.

    No one took any bribes (that we know of) and no one died. The moral low ground is comparatively high in this country

    I mean.... Did you read the charges? The PMO was trying to get justice to NOT persecute SNC for paying bribes.... That's essentially the same thing in my book.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    This is really appalling and not at all shocking, and of course seems really bad for the Liberals. They will get hammered for this.

    I hope we'll see an energized NDP take advantage instead of the Cons, but

    This feels gloomily familiar

    Evil Multifarious on
    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
    Descendant XCorvusDisco11CanadianWolverine
  • CorporateGoonCorporateGoon Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Disco11 wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    Maybe I'm jaded but I'm neither surprised nor concerned by all this and I suppose I should be, but the Conservatives would have done the same sooooooo yeah.

    So they wanted her to go with the DPA, and did they not pass legislation to specifically allow that previous to all this?

    Just sucks to lose the moral high ground.... We are in the mud with the rest of the pigs at this point.

    No one took any bribes (that we know of) and no one died. The moral low ground is comparatively high in this country

    I mean.... Did you read the charges? The PMO was trying to get justice to NOT persecute SNC for paying bribes.... That's essentially the same thing in my book.

    It was for paying bribes to unrelated people, so there's a pretty clear difference between that and taking a paper bag full of money to vote a particular way or whatever

  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    He was pressuring them to go with a DPA instead.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deferred_prosecution_agreement_(Canada)

    Nosf on
  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    This is really appalling and not at all shocking, and of course seems really bad for the Liberals. They will get hammered for this.

    I hope we'll see an energized NDP take advantage instead of the Cons, but

    This feels gloomily familiar

    Could someone briefly sum up what's going on for me? I'm having trouble following and want to know what exactly has been happening in Canada, what with the immigration and what not, but I feel like I don't have the background to know where to start.

  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    The NDP is in no position to rescue anyone, even with this scandal.
    I hope people don't moral high ground themselves into a conservative government but I won't be surprised if people can't think 5 minutes ahead.

    TubularLuggagemrondeauGnome-InterruptusshrykeJohn C. Turbine
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    This is really appalling and not at all shocking, and of course seems really bad for the Liberals. They will get hammered for this.

    I hope we'll see an energized NDP take advantage instead of the Cons, but

    This feels gloomily familiar

    Could someone briefly sum up what's going on for me? I'm having trouble following and want to know what exactly has been happening in Canada, what with the immigration and what not, but I feel like I don't have the background to know where to start.

    Basically, the Prime Minister and his office may have illegally pressured the former Minister of Justice, while she was the minister, to offer SNC Lavalin, one of Canada's largest companies (from Quebec, crucially), a deffered prosecution agreement, which would have the result of not banning them from government contracts for ten years.

    :so_raven:
  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    Corvus wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    This is really appalling and not at all shocking, and of course seems really bad for the Liberals. They will get hammered for this.

    I hope we'll see an energized NDP take advantage instead of the Cons, but

    This feels gloomily familiar

    Could someone briefly sum up what's going on for me? I'm having trouble following and want to know what exactly has been happening in Canada, what with the immigration and what not, but I feel like I don't have the background to know where to start.

    Basically, the Prime Minister and his office may have illegally pressured the former Minister of Justice, while she was the minister, to offer SNC Lavalin, one of Canada's largest companies (from Quebec, crucially), a deffered prosecution agreement, which would have the result of not banning them from government contracts for ten years.

    Ok, SNC was throwing me. So basically the PM was coercing the minister of justice to benefit a specific company? More or less like if the president was coercing the justice department to not punish specific companies? That does seem pretty bad!

    AridholSteelhawkKetBraDisco11Apogee
  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Yeah, both Trudeau and Scheer would have to cook and devour a child on Parliament hill for Singh to matter, and even then there's the Greens.
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    This is really appalling and not at all shocking, and of course seems really bad for the Liberals. They will get hammered for this.

    I hope we'll see an energized NDP take advantage instead of the Cons, but

    This feels gloomily familiar

    Could someone briefly sum up what's going on for me? I'm having trouble following and want to know what exactly has been happening in Canada, what with the immigration and what not, but I feel like I don't have the background to know where to start.

    Basically, the Prime Minister and his office may have illegally pressured the former Minister of Justice, while she was the minister, to offer SNC Lavalin, one of Canada's largest companies (from Quebec, crucially), a deffered prosecution agreement, which would have the result of not banning them from government contracts for ten years.

    Ok, SNC was throwing me. So basically the PM was coercing the minister of justice to benefit a specific company? More or less like if the president was coercing the justice department to not punish specific companies? That does seem pretty bad!

    It's not great for sure, but there are legal avenues available to prosecutors that would have let them punish the company without hurting their employees / the province etc. I'm sort of curious why they wouldn't go with the DPA, unless they figured there's no righting the ship at SNC Lavalin, but that's a pretty harsh blow to everyone who works there and not just the C suite pricks.

    Nosf on
    Gnome-InterruptusJohn C. TurbineCaulk Bite 6
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    This is really appalling and not at all shocking, and of course seems really bad for the Liberals. They will get hammered for this.

    I hope we'll see an energized NDP take advantage instead of the Cons, but

    This feels gloomily familiar

    Could someone briefly sum up what's going on for me? I'm having trouble following and want to know what exactly has been happening in Canada, what with the immigration and what not, but I feel like I don't have the background to know where to start.

    Basically, the Prime Minister and his office may have illegally pressured the former Minister of Justice, while she was the minister, to offer SNC Lavalin, one of Canada's largest companies (from Quebec, crucially), a deffered prosecution agreement, which would have the result of not banning them from government contracts for ten years.

    Ok, SNC was throwing me. So basically the PM was coercing the minister of justice to benefit a specific company? More or less like if the president was coercing the justice department to not punish specific companies? That does seem pretty bad!

    It is bad.
    Major employer leaving a province during your term in a crucial province during an election year is also up there on a bad scale.

    Pick your poison.


    ShivahnKetBrashrykeRear Admiral Choco
  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    This is really appalling and not at all shocking, and of course seems really bad for the Liberals. They will get hammered for this.

    I hope we'll see an energized NDP take advantage instead of the Cons, but

    This feels gloomily familiar

    Could someone briefly sum up what's going on for me? I'm having trouble following and want to know what exactly has been happening in Canada, what with the immigration and what not, but I feel like I don't have the background to know where to start.

    Basically, the Prime Minister and his office may have illegally pressured the former Minister of Justice, while she was the minister, to offer SNC Lavalin, one of Canada's largest companies (from Quebec, crucially), a deffered prosecution agreement, which would have the result of not banning them from government contracts for ten years.

    Ok, SNC was throwing me. So basically the PM was coercing the minister of justice to benefit a specific company? More or less like if the president was coercing the justice department to not punish specific companies? That does seem pretty bad!

    Of note is the nature of the charges against the company in question: corruption and fraud in dealings with Libya. Very serious.

    Also of note is the crackling lightning rod of Quebec politics and SNC-Lavalin's economic and political importance as an employer in that region.

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
    ShivahnRear Admiral Choco
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    It's infuriating to know that the Cons absolutely would have done this too, and probably far worse, and yet now we're going to have months of them whining about this.

    ShadowenGnome-InterruptusAridholEtiowsaCanadianWolverine
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Nosf wrote: »
    Yeah, both Trudeau and Scheer would have to cook and devour a child on Parliament hill for Singh to matter, and even then there's the Greens.
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    This is really appalling and not at all shocking, and of course seems really bad for the Liberals. They will get hammered for this.

    I hope we'll see an energized NDP take advantage instead of the Cons, but

    This feels gloomily familiar

    Could someone briefly sum up what's going on for me? I'm having trouble following and want to know what exactly has been happening in Canada, what with the immigration and what not, but I feel like I don't have the background to know where to start.

    Basically, the Prime Minister and his office may have illegally pressured the former Minister of Justice, while she was the minister, to offer SNC Lavalin, one of Canada's largest companies (from Quebec, crucially), a deffered prosecution agreement, which would have the result of not banning them from government contracts for ten years.

    Ok, SNC was throwing me. So basically the PM was coercing the minister of justice to benefit a specific company? More or less like if the president was coercing the justice department to not punish specific companies? That does seem pretty bad!

    It's not great for sure, but there are legal avenues available to prosecutors that would have let them punish the company without hurting their employees / the province etc. I'm sort of curious why they wouldn't go with the DPA, unless they figured there's no righting the ship at SNC Lavalin, but that's a pretty harsh blow to everyone who works there and not just the C suite pricks.

    It seems pretty clear from the testimony I've been watching for a couple years that Wilson-Raybould has a particular stance on things that brooks no disagreement. I'll leave it up to the thread whether this is a good thing.

    edit: haha I wrote "years" instead of "hours" but fuck it, I'm leaving it.

    Aridhol on
  • ShivahnShivahn Unaware of her barrel shifter privilege Western coastal temptressRegistered User regular
    Shivahn wrote: »
    Corvus wrote: »
    Shivahn wrote: »
    This is really appalling and not at all shocking, and of course seems really bad for the Liberals. They will get hammered for this.

    I hope we'll see an energized NDP take advantage instead of the Cons, but

    This feels gloomily familiar

    Could someone briefly sum up what's going on for me? I'm having trouble following and want to know what exactly has been happening in Canada, what with the immigration and what not, but I feel like I don't have the background to know where to start.

    Basically, the Prime Minister and his office may have illegally pressured the former Minister of Justice, while she was the minister, to offer SNC Lavalin, one of Canada's largest companies (from Quebec, crucially), a deffered prosecution agreement, which would have the result of not banning them from government contracts for ten years.

    Ok, SNC was throwing me. So basically the PM was coercing the minister of justice to benefit a specific company? More or less like if the president was coercing the justice department to not punish specific companies? That does seem pretty bad!

    Of note is the nature of the charges against the company in question: corruption and fraud in dealings with Libya. Very serious.

    Also of note is the crackling lightning rod of Quebec politics and SNC-Lavalin's economic and political importance as an employer in that region.

    Eep, yeah, those specifics are particularly egregious. I don't know much about Quebec politics and specific corporations is part of why this is confusing, I think.

    ...That and I live near Washington DC, so I may be experiencing a slight saturation of political malfeasance.

  • BlarghyBlarghy Registered User regular
    Note that pressuring the minister to take an alternate (and legal) course of action is not in itself illegal. Perhaps not the action that looks the best, but there's no indication that the PMO was bribed, but instead wanted to preserve jobs in a sensitive province.

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    That's what makes me curious; did the PMO actually break the law in asking them to go with a DPA for a giant employer in a crucial province? I mean, if the optics are bad, that's a drag but if no law was actually broken well fuck off and let's move on.

  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    From what we know right now, this is more just, "Not a good look" rather than illegal.

    If I were to be cynical for a moment and look at the political angle, there's a good chance this won't hurt the Liberals in Quebec, and they may actually pick up some seats there.

    AridholGnome-Interruptus
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    I'm so tired of anything have to with Quebec being such a sensitive subject for the rest of the country. So. Gawddamn. Tired,

    And I'm so disappointed with Trudeau, moreso the man rather than the party, for not being better than this.

    Descendant X
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    From what we know right now, this is more just, "Not a good look" rather than illegal.

    If I were to be cynical for a moment and look at the political angle, there's a good chance this won't hurt the Liberals in Quebec, and they may actually pick up some seats there.

    I agree. I think the PMO protecting quebeccer jobs is going to play well.
    Out west this is the easiest campaign ad for the cons.

    SteelhawkTubularLuggageGnome-InterruptusDisco11shrykeCaulk Bite 6
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    The Minister of Justice (and Attorney General) refused to do so and this past January was shuffled out of the MoJ role and over to the Minister of Veteran Affairs.

  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    IDK, out west Trudeau has been working to get the pipeline built to the point where he bought the goddamn thing, no?

  • finnithfinnith TorontoRegistered User regular
    Yeah this wont end well. I don't know that the Conservatives have enough, especially in Quebec, to make significant enough inroads, but I've yet to read updated polling. If the Outremont by-election means anything my guess is a Liberal minority, which is pretty tragic. I bet Trudeau was expected to get a bit more mileage.

    Bnet: CavilatRest#1874
    Steam: CavilatRest
  • Descendant XDescendant X Outpost 31Registered User regular
    Nosf wrote: »
    IDK, out west Trudeau has been working to get the pipeline built to the point where he bought the goddamn thing, no?

    Do you live out west? Trudeau could build the goddamn pipeline himself with his own two hands and the right out here would give him shit for using the wrong brand of wrench. It’s infuriating.

    Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time, I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
    AridholShadowenTubularLuggageKetBraGnome-InterruptusshrykeLaOsApogeeJohn C. TurbineCaulk Bite 6
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    finnith wrote: »
    Yeah this wont end well. I don't know that the Conservatives have enough, especially in Quebec, to make significant enough inroads, but I've yet to read updated polling. If the Outremont by-election means anything my guess is a Liberal minority, which is pretty tragic. I bet Trudeau was expected to get a bit more mileage.

    We'll see how this plays out ahead of the election.
    Campaigns, as we've seen, can bring pretty big changes.

    I live out west and we just love to cut off our noses to spite our faces.
    We also hate not being the centre of the universe and so resent any and all politicians.

    I want to see the next few weeks of polling by province.

    TubularLuggageshryke
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Nosf wrote: »
    IDK, out west Trudeau has been working to get the pipeline built to the point where he bought the goddamn thing, no?

    Trudeau could have built the entire pipeline with his bare hands and bare chest while Scheer yelled about dirty oil and cried over global warming, and Trudeau would not win a single vote nor Scheer lose a single one out west.

    sig.gif
    AridholshrykeCaulk Bite 6
  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    edited February 2019
    Nosf wrote: »
    IDK, out west Trudeau has been working to get the pipeline built to the point where he bought the goddamn thing, no?

    Do you live out west? Trudeau could build the goddamn pipeline himself with his own two hands and the right out here would give him shit for using the wrong brand of wrench. It’s infuriating.

    So wait, hear me out...

    ...if there's nothing Trudeau can do to win over conservative Albertan voters why should he care about trying?

    Shadowen on
    Aridhol
  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    Well, that's kind of his job and why he does the pipeline thing as is.

  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Nosf wrote: »
    IDK, out west Trudeau has been working to get the pipeline built to the point where he bought the goddamn thing, no?

    Do you live out west? Trudeau could build the goddamn pipeline himself with his own two hands and the right out here would give him shit for using the wrong brand of wrench. It’s infuriating.

    So wait, hear me out...

    ...if there's nothing Trudeau can do to win over conservative Albertan voters why should he care about trying?

    Canadian politicians still don't say the quiet parts out loud.
    Have to be seen to try even if you know it's pointless.

    Gnome-InterruptusLaOs
  • KetBraKetBra Dressed Ridiculously Registered User regular
    Aridhol wrote: »
    From what we know right now, this is more just, "Not a good look" rather than illegal.

    If I were to be cynical for a moment and look at the political angle, there's a good chance this won't hurt the Liberals in Quebec, and they may actually pick up some seats there.

    I agree. I think the PMO protecting quebeccer jobs is going to play well.
    Out west this is the easiest campaign ad for the cons.

    Out west I feel like most gained seats were going to be lost, anyways.

    KGMvDLc.jpg?1
This discussion has been closed.