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[Canadian Politics] Takin' out the trash to replace it with... whoops.

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Posts

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Goddammit... PEI referendum is 15 ridings for MMR, 12 against. Threshold for winning was 60% of ridings, which is 17.

    Sorry guys, it really sucks :cry:

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    CanadianWolverine
  • LorekLorek Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Goddammit... PEI referendum is 15 ridings for MMR, 12 against. Threshold for winning was 60% of ridings, which is 17.

    Sorry guys, it really sucks :cry:

    Sure we'll toss out a perfectly good government just for "some change" but the way we vote has been good enough since founding, so why bother fixing that, eh.

    steam_sig.png
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    .
    Richy wrote: »
    Goddammit... PEI referendum is 15 ridings for MMR, 12 against. Threshold for winning was 60% of ridings, which is 17.

    Sorry guys, it really sucks :cry:

    The silver lining is that if neither option wins in 17 ridings, it's considered unresolved, and there will eventually be another vote. Likely concurrent with the next election. Some stories about it don't include that bit of nuance, but that's the word from Elections PEI.

    CelloGnome-InterruptusShadowenRichyshrykeForar
  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    Also, while there will undoubtedly be plenty of coverage about this that just calls it a conservative victory without any nuance, and that will be annoying, the on the ground situation is actually not that bad.
    For a big chunk of its political history, PEI has ping-ponged back and forth between the Liberals and PCs at fairly regular intervals. This was basically a regular ping-pong back to the PCs. Except this time, it's a PC party that needs the Greens or Liberals on board with anything it wants to do. I also feel like if there's any province that can still have actual cooperation in the legislature, it's PEI. Especially with how upbeat and non-divisive the campaign was, from all parties.
    Also, the attitude PEI voters tend to approach provincial elections with is voting candidates in, rather than voting candidates out.

    The media will no doubt write a bunch of hot takes about a blue wave, and how this is "Bad news for Trudeau (TM)" while not making any effort to understand how PEI politics work. But there's actually no real cause for concern from an actual governance point of view.

    ArcticLancerRichyCanadianWolverine
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    Something I've noticed is that while basic ranked ballots or instant run-off elections that preserve the existing riding and MLA election structure are generally supported by many people all the various referendums always seem to make the choices between a variety of complex systems. I'm not quite sure how much of the complex systems being proposed is sabotaging the referendum by the party in power and how much it is those involved in selecting the choices for the referendum being so into the weeds of electoral systems they are blind to the populace's aversion to voting for something they may not understand or that making the question too complex makes it easy to malign.

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Lorek wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    Goddammit... PEI referendum is 15 ridings for MMR, 12 against. Threshold for winning was 60% of ridings, which is 17.

    Sorry guys, it really sucks :cry:

    Sure we'll toss out a perfectly good government just for "some change" but the way we vote has been good enough since founding, so why bother fixing that, eh.

    I mean, yeah. That's exactly how it goes. It's not even unexpected really. People generally don't think about changing the fundamentals of the system thy live within and instead think about how to maximise their own goals within that system.

  • El SkidEl Skid The frozen white northRegistered User regular
    I'm not sure why the NDP are not starting their messaging on electoral reform now.

    We're back into "anything but conservative" mode, and they desperately need something that sets them apart from the liberals for the ABC crowd to glom onto.

    Start your messaging now! Choose a system that is not FPTP and start educating people on how it works! Make your system the alternative everyone understands! Fucking hammer that you will be the party that finally gets rid of this shitstorm of FPTP and exactly how you will do it!

    Even if the Liberals counter, they have had 4 years and have accomplished nothing after touting electoral reform as a centerpiece of their platform, so they can't even really counter you!

    It's maddening that they have this simple way into the spotlight and are instead choosing to remain in the shadows...sigh.

    mrpaku wrote: »
    my name is precisionk and i'm ten tanks

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    This may surprise you, but the NDP are actually bad at their jobs.

    Disco11AegisKetBraAridholApogeeTeriferin
  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    I'm entirely amused the NDP came away with nothing and the Greens are now the opposition. I've noticed that the Greens leader in Ontario is getting a lot of press quotes lately, mainly because Mike Schreiner always sounds pretty reasonable. I wonder if the federal party will do any better, although they could stand to lose May, as she seems like a real wingnut.

    RichyGnome-Interruptus
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    I'll say the same thing I always say about the NDP: if they were smart they'd stop shooting for the prime ministers office and focus on building up a larger base of support. Because the unfortunate reality is that a combination of them being a minority minority party and that they have never actually had either the prime ministers office nor offical opposition status means that most people regard them as a glorified 3rd party.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular
    edited April 24
    Gaddez wrote: »
    I'll say the same thing I always say about the NDP: if they were smart they'd stop shooting for the prime ministers office and focus on building up a larger base of support. Because the unfortunate reality is that a combination of them being a minority minority party and that they have never actually had either the prime ministers office nor offical opposition status means that most people regard them as a glorified 3rd party.

    Wait are we just talking about pei or

    KetBra on
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  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    The NDP were the official opposition to the previous Conservative government. Mulcair did a pretty good job in the Commons and then went right wing in the election and sprinkled in some xenophobia to appease voters in Quebec while the liberals went left and put forward a more positive vision of the country.

    ArcticLancerGnome-InterruptusShadowenCanadianWolverine
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    The NDP were the official opposition to the previous Conservative government. Mulcair did a pretty good job in the Commons and then went right wing in the election and sprinkled in some xenophobia to appease voters in Quebec while the liberals went left and put forward a more positive vision of the country.

    They were the official opposition because the Liberals completely collapsed and so they got in by default. The minute the Liberals got their shit together, their seat count collapsed again.

    I like Mulcair, even voted for him directly several times, but he was not that great a party leader and it's not like there's been better since. Without Layton they don't have much in that regard imo and it shows.

    Gaddez
  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    The NDP were the official opposition to the previous Conservative government. Mulcair did a pretty good job in the Commons and then went right wing in the election and sprinkled in some xenophobia to appease voters in Quebec while the liberals went left and put forward a more positive vision of the country.

    They were the official opposition because the Liberals completely collapsed and so they got in by default. The minute the Liberals got their shit together, their seat count collapsed again.

    I like Mulcair, even voted for him directly several times, but he was not that great a party leader and it's not like there's been better since. Without Layton they don't have much in that regard imo and it shows.

    I mean, sure, but I wouldn't say the current Federal Liberals are currently putting on a masterclass of political cunning currently, either.

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  • The Cow KingThe Cow King Walls of Jakiro Registered User regular
    edited April 24
    Theres a interesting community grass roots effort to plan/purchase the gm factory space to convert it into renewable energy production stuff and itd be a good idea for the liberals to get behind the movement and give power to the workers. But since liberals dislike government in business theyll probably find a venture captialist who tries to build a shitty automated plant that runs off half production

    Now thats given they can even purchase the land, gm could keep it if they own it or maybe its like GE in peterborough and is super contaiminated and worthless once they leave

    Good riddance gm though gets bailed out, a billion in loans wrote off and the union members havent revieved a raise in 10 years.

    The Cow King on
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    Gnome-Interruptus
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    The NDP were the official opposition to the previous Conservative government. Mulcair did a pretty good job in the Commons and then went right wing in the election and sprinkled in some xenophobia to appease voters in Quebec while the liberals went left and put forward a more positive vision of the country.

    They were the official opposition because the Liberals completely collapsed and so they got in by default. The minute the Liberals got their shit together, their seat count collapsed again.

    I like Mulcair, even voted for him directly several times, but he was not that great a party leader and it's not like there's been better since. Without Layton they don't have much in that regard imo and it shows.

    I mean, sure, but I wouldn't say the current Federal Liberals are currently putting on a masterclass of political cunning currently, either.

    They are doing better and aren't starting from 100 feet back like the NDP is. They need to get their shit together if they wanna be anything but a 3rd party.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited April 24
    KetBra wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Caedwyr wrote: »
    The NDP were the official opposition to the previous Conservative government. Mulcair did a pretty good job in the Commons and then went right wing in the election and sprinkled in some xenophobia to appease voters in Quebec while the liberals went left and put forward a more positive vision of the country.

    They were the official opposition because the Liberals completely collapsed and so they got in by default. The minute the Liberals got their shit together, their seat count collapsed again.

    I like Mulcair, even voted for him directly several times, but he was not that great a party leader and it's not like there's been better since. Without Layton they don't have much in that regard imo and it shows.

    I mean, sure, but I wouldn't say the current Federal Liberals are currently putting on a masterclass of political cunning currently, either.

    I mean, who is? Scheer's current bump in the polls is just the fallout from the Liberals tearing themselves apart, it's not due to anything he did. If anything the stuff he did, like his ridiculous banging on the desks in the Commons during the budget or useless extended voting sessions, are hindering the gains he could be doing by making him look childish and immature. Bernier is only in the running because the CBC reports on him like he's a political superstar rather than 7th party. The only headline I've seen from May since the last election was about her getting married, which I mean good for her, I wish her a lifetime of happiness, but is not exactly a political supernova.

    Richy on
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  • DeciusDecius Registered User regular
    Disco11 wrote: »
    As the first place in Canada that will sink below sea level as the ocean rises, it's certainly understandable for PEI to have some draws with the Greens. :P

    Alberta is pretty high above sea level.

    Just saying..

    Alberta isn't getting out of this unscathed, none of us are. Prepare for a higher occurrence of flooding, heatwaves, tornadoes, etc. Landlocked doesn't mean that Green's message can't resonate, its Postmedia, Sun Media, Bell, and Newcap Broadcasting that have the most editorial say in what resonates in that province to help them realize that climate change is here and picking up speed.

    It's really sad people here either can't or won't see the writing on the wall. We just had the coldest February on record right smack dab in the middle of the warmest winter on record. Now that spring has sprung, we've had at last one brush fire a day that has forced traffic away from major roads. It was snowing while 7C this afternoon, and the wind has been relentless this week. Dust storms blowing across the roads everywhere.

    Now we do get some odd weather here in the in-between seasons, but the combinations we've been seeing, the severity, and the fluctuations, are seeming a little nuts. I'm afraid my mid-2000s prediction of another Alberta Dust bowl with 15 years might come true, and all the "sticking it to Ottawa" that the government wants to do isn't going to help for shit.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited April 25
    Decius wrote: »
    Disco11 wrote: »
    As the first place in Canada that will sink below sea level as the ocean rises, it's certainly understandable for PEI to have some draws with the Greens. :P

    Alberta is pretty high above sea level.

    Just saying..

    Alberta isn't getting out of this unscathed, none of us are. Prepare for a higher occurrence of flooding, heatwaves, tornadoes, etc. Landlocked doesn't mean that Green's message can't resonate, its Postmedia, Sun Media, Bell, and Newcap Broadcasting that have the most editorial say in what resonates in that province to help them realize that climate change is here and picking up speed.

    It's really sad people here either can't or won't see the writing on the wall. We just had the coldest February on record right smack dab in the middle of the warmest winter on record. Now that spring has sprung, we've had at last one brush fire a day that has forced traffic away from major roads. It was snowing while 7C this afternoon, and the wind has been relentless this week. Dust storms blowing across the roads everywhere.

    Now we do get some odd weather here in the in-between seasons, but the combinations we've been seeing, the severity, and the fluctuations, are seeming a little nuts. I'm afraid my mid-2000s prediction of another Alberta Dust bowl with 15 years might come true, and all the "sticking it to Ottawa" that the government wants to do isn't going to help for shit.

    The left believes climate change is real so the right thinks it's fake. That is literally what is going on.

    I've been following this shit for decades now thanks to my dad spamming my email inbox. It's been a major bellwether imo of how conservative political thinking works and where it's been headed. The entire anti-environmentalism movement for your average person is basically just a chance to smugly look down on "liberals" and such. "Hahaha, here's a study saying you are wrong. Suck it!" or whatnot. That's as deep as it goes.

    shryke on
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  • quovadis13quovadis13 Registered User regular
    So I am doing my taxes and I notice there is a new Climate Action Incentive Payment. Is this what Dougie Ford is going to sticker us about at the gas pumps? From what I read, it appears that we are taxing heavy polluters and returning a bit of that as a tax credit? It's helped us with a bit with our overall bill this year, so I am on board here??

    Yeah, slight gas tax too, but still, this seems like an okay idea????

  • BlarghyBlarghy Registered User regular
    Yes, that payment comes from the carbon tax system. Ottawa said that all provinces needed to come up with a carbon tax system that met its standards by this year, or else it would levy its own federal tax on whichever provinces failed to do so. Since the provinces that levied the tax could keep the money, the tax money raised from the federal tax gets returned to the provinces in which the taxes were raised. Ford pulled out, so the Feds levied their tax and is returning it to each Ontario taxpayer via their income tax returns. It is basically saying that since your provincial government didn't want the money, you can take it, in order to help discourage heavy polluters and compensate you for having to live in the same province as said polluters.

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  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    El Skid wrote: »
    I'm not sure why the NDP are not starting their messaging on electoral reform now.

    We're back into "anything but conservative" mode, and they desperately need something that sets them apart from the liberals for the ABC crowd to glom onto.

    Start your messaging now! Choose a system that is not FPTP and start educating people on how it works! Make your system the alternative everyone understands! Fucking hammer that you will be the party that finally gets rid of this shitstorm of FPTP and exactly how you will do it!

    Even if the Liberals counter, they have had 4 years and have accomplished nothing after touting electoral reform as a centerpiece of their platform, so they can't even really counter you!

    It's maddening that they have this simple way into the spotlight and are instead choosing to remain in the shadows...sigh.

    You mean sorta like this?

    https://www.fairvote.ca/2019/02/25/singh-will-be-a-strong-advocate-for-proportional-representation-in-the-house-of-commons-and-the-2019-federal-election/

    steam_sig.png
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    El Skid wrote: »
    I'm not sure why the NDP are not starting their messaging on electoral reform now.

    We're back into "anything but conservative" mode, and they desperately need something that sets them apart from the liberals for the ABC crowd to glom onto.

    Start your messaging now! Choose a system that is not FPTP and start educating people on how it works! Make your system the alternative everyone understands! Fucking hammer that you will be the party that finally gets rid of this shitstorm of FPTP and exactly how you will do it!

    Even if the Liberals counter, they have had 4 years and have accomplished nothing after touting electoral reform as a centerpiece of their platform, so they can't even really counter you!

    It's maddening that they have this simple way into the spotlight and are instead choosing to remain in the shadows...sigh.

    You mean sorta like this?

    https://www.fairvote.ca/2019/02/25/singh-will-be-a-strong-advocate-for-proportional-representation-in-the-house-of-commons-and-the-2019-federal-election/

    Not really since nobody noticed.

    AridholSteelhawkApogee
  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    quovadis13 wrote: »
    So I am doing my taxes and I notice there is a new Climate Action Incentive Payment. Is this what Dougie Ford is going to sticker us about at the gas pumps? From what I read, it appears that we are taxing heavy polluters and returning a bit of that as a tax credit? It's helped us with a bit with our overall bill this year, so I am on board here??

    Yeah, slight gas tax too, but still, this seems like an okay idea????

    He's stickering about the carbon tax but is omitting the fact that the Climate Action Incentive rebate exists and is being returned to residents of the 4 provinces to which Schedule 14 applies to.

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
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  • El SkidEl Skid The frozen white northRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    El Skid wrote: »
    I'm not sure why the NDP are not starting their messaging on electoral reform now.

    We're back into "anything but conservative" mode, and they desperately need something that sets them apart from the liberals for the ABC crowd to glom onto.

    Start your messaging now! Choose a system that is not FPTP and start educating people on how it works! Make your system the alternative everyone understands! Fucking hammer that you will be the party that finally gets rid of this shitstorm of FPTP and exactly how you will do it!

    Even if the Liberals counter, they have had 4 years and have accomplished nothing after touting electoral reform as a centerpiece of their platform, so they can't even really counter you!

    It's maddening that they have this simple way into the spotlight and are instead choosing to remain in the shadows...sigh.

    You mean sorta like this?

    https://www.fairvote.ca/2019/02/25/singh-will-be-a-strong-advocate-for-proportional-representation-in-the-house-of-commons-and-the-2019-federal-election/

    Not really since nobody noticed.

    Exactly. When people ask Singh in interviews, he says
    I believe the NDP can form government in 2019 and can bring in mixed member proportional representation.

    In a minority parliament, I would consult with our caucus and advocate for the inclusion of proportional representation as a condition of any alliance or support for a minority government.

    So that's fine... But it's not what I am talking about at all.

    Beat the drums. Make some inflammatory statements. Start talking about what proportional representation is and educating people on it. Get people talking about it!

    "Justin Trudeau promised Canadians to do away with First Past the Post and he lied to each and every one of us! Andrew Sheer will make sure First Past the Post is here forever! An NDP government WILL change this broken system into something where Canadians vote FOR what they believe in, not AGAINST what they don't! We are putting out a bunch of information on what Proportional Representation is and how it will change elections in Canada for the better... and we want everyone to read it and understand what it means for them. Go to our website to learn more, and to learn what else the NDP is going to do for Canada to fight Climate Change and poverty right across this great country!"

    Start your messaging now! Get everyone on board now! Don't sit back and answer interview questions and wait until the election happens!

    mrpaku wrote: »
    my name is precisionk and i'm ten tanks

    wrath God fear traitor evil
    Gnome-InterruptusLordSolarMachariusApogeeDescendant XShadowenCanadianWolverine
  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    El Skid wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    El Skid wrote: »
    I'm not sure why the NDP are not starting their messaging on electoral reform now.

    We're back into "anything but conservative" mode, and they desperately need something that sets them apart from the liberals for the ABC crowd to glom onto.

    Start your messaging now! Choose a system that is not FPTP and start educating people on how it works! Make your system the alternative everyone understands! Fucking hammer that you will be the party that finally gets rid of this shitstorm of FPTP and exactly how you will do it!

    Even if the Liberals counter, they have had 4 years and have accomplished nothing after touting electoral reform as a centerpiece of their platform, so they can't even really counter you!

    It's maddening that they have this simple way into the spotlight and are instead choosing to remain in the shadows...sigh.

    You mean sorta like this?

    https://www.fairvote.ca/2019/02/25/singh-will-be-a-strong-advocate-for-proportional-representation-in-the-house-of-commons-and-the-2019-federal-election/

    Not really since nobody noticed.

    Exactly. When people ask Singh in interviews, he says
    I believe the NDP can form government in 2019 and can bring in mixed member proportional representation.

    In a minority parliament, I would consult with our caucus and advocate for the inclusion of proportional representation as a condition of any alliance or support for a minority government.

    So that's fine... But it's not what I am talking about at all.

    Beat the drums. Make some inflammatory statements. Start talking about what proportional representation is and educating people on it. Get people talking about it!

    "Justin Trudeau promised Canadians to do away with First Past the Post and he lied to each and every one of us! Andrew Sheer will make sure First Past the Post is here forever! An NDP government WILL change this broken system into something where Canadians vote FOR what they believe in, not AGAINST what they don't! We are putting out a bunch of information on what Proportional Representation is and how it will change elections in Canada for the better... and we want everyone to read it and understand what it means for them. Go to our website to learn more, and to learn what else the NDP is going to do for Canada to fight Climate Change and poverty right across this great country!"

    Start your messaging now! Get everyone on board now! Don't sit back and answer interview questions and wait until the election happens!

    The NDP could have taken half a loaf and gotten STV. Instead they decided they'd rather watch the Liberals fail. Which sort of suggests they'd actually be terrible as a coalition partner if they're that unwilling to compromise.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited April 25
    Tenek wrote: »
    El Skid wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    El Skid wrote: »
    I'm not sure why the NDP are not starting their messaging on electoral reform now.

    We're back into "anything but conservative" mode, and they desperately need something that sets them apart from the liberals for the ABC crowd to glom onto.

    Start your messaging now! Choose a system that is not FPTP and start educating people on how it works! Make your system the alternative everyone understands! Fucking hammer that you will be the party that finally gets rid of this shitstorm of FPTP and exactly how you will do it!

    Even if the Liberals counter, they have had 4 years and have accomplished nothing after touting electoral reform as a centerpiece of their platform, so they can't even really counter you!

    It's maddening that they have this simple way into the spotlight and are instead choosing to remain in the shadows...sigh.

    You mean sorta like this?

    https://www.fairvote.ca/2019/02/25/singh-will-be-a-strong-advocate-for-proportional-representation-in-the-house-of-commons-and-the-2019-federal-election/

    Not really since nobody noticed.

    Exactly. When people ask Singh in interviews, he says
    I believe the NDP can form government in 2019 and can bring in mixed member proportional representation.

    In a minority parliament, I would consult with our caucus and advocate for the inclusion of proportional representation as a condition of any alliance or support for a minority government.

    So that's fine... But it's not what I am talking about at all.

    Beat the drums. Make some inflammatory statements. Start talking about what proportional representation is and educating people on it. Get people talking about it!

    "Justin Trudeau promised Canadians to do away with First Past the Post and he lied to each and every one of us! Andrew Sheer will make sure First Past the Post is here forever! An NDP government WILL change this broken system into something where Canadians vote FOR what they believe in, not AGAINST what they don't! We are putting out a bunch of information on what Proportional Representation is and how it will change elections in Canada for the better... and we want everyone to read it and understand what it means for them. Go to our website to learn more, and to learn what else the NDP is going to do for Canada to fight Climate Change and poverty right across this great country!"

    Start your messaging now! Get everyone on board now! Don't sit back and answer interview questions and wait until the election happens!

    The NDP could have taken half a loaf and gotten STV. Instead they decided they'd rather watch the Liberals fail. Which sort of suggests they'd actually be terrible as a coalition partner if they're that unwilling to compromise.

    As I keep saying, electoral reform failed because none of the 3 parties would agree on the same system. The Cons are whatever. Bunch of fucking racist death-cultists so they were a write-off anyway. But the NDP and the Liberals refusing to get on the same page is, while expected, still stupid as fuck and has left us back where we started.

    shryke on
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  • Beef AvengerBeef Avenger Registered User regular
    I've been feeling pessimistic about any sort of vote reform since the failed referendum in BC. Things just keep going the same way. Feel like it'll be a while before anyone wants to give it a go again in the hopes of a different result

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  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    edited April 25
    shryke wrote: »
    Tenek wrote: »
    El Skid wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    El Skid wrote: »
    I'm not sure why the NDP are not starting their messaging on electoral reform now.

    We're back into "anything but conservative" mode, and they desperately need something that sets them apart from the liberals for the ABC crowd to glom onto.

    Start your messaging now! Choose a system that is not FPTP and start educating people on how it works! Make your system the alternative everyone understands! Fucking hammer that you will be the party that finally gets rid of this shitstorm of FPTP and exactly how you will do it!

    Even if the Liberals counter, they have had 4 years and have accomplished nothing after touting electoral reform as a centerpiece of their platform, so they can't even really counter you!

    It's maddening that they have this simple way into the spotlight and are instead choosing to remain in the shadows...sigh.

    You mean sorta like this?

    https://www.fairvote.ca/2019/02/25/singh-will-be-a-strong-advocate-for-proportional-representation-in-the-house-of-commons-and-the-2019-federal-election/

    Not really since nobody noticed.

    Exactly. When people ask Singh in interviews, he says
    I believe the NDP can form government in 2019 and can bring in mixed member proportional representation.

    In a minority parliament, I would consult with our caucus and advocate for the inclusion of proportional representation as a condition of any alliance or support for a minority government.

    So that's fine... But it's not what I am talking about at all.

    Beat the drums. Make some inflammatory statements. Start talking about what proportional representation is and educating people on it. Get people talking about it!

    "Justin Trudeau promised Canadians to do away with First Past the Post and he lied to each and every one of us! Andrew Sheer will make sure First Past the Post is here forever! An NDP government WILL change this broken system into something where Canadians vote FOR what they believe in, not AGAINST what they don't! We are putting out a bunch of information on what Proportional Representation is and how it will change elections in Canada for the better... and we want everyone to read it and understand what it means for them. Go to our website to learn more, and to learn what else the NDP is going to do for Canada to fight Climate Change and poverty right across this great country!"

    Start your messaging now! Get everyone on board now! Don't sit back and answer interview questions and wait until the election happens!

    The NDP could have taken half a loaf and gotten STV. Instead they decided they'd rather watch the Liberals fail. Which sort of suggests they'd actually be terrible as a coalition partner if they're that unwilling to compromise.

    As I keep saying, electoral reform failed because none of the 3 parties would agree on the same system. The Cons are whatever. Bunch of fucking racist death-cultists so they were a write-off anyway. But the NDP and the Liberals refusing to get on the same page is, while expected, still stupid as fuck and has left us back where we started.

    Yes. And it also means that either a) the NDP thinks FPTP is the second-best system or b) they were willing to block anything (including their own best chance of forming a government) from passing because they didn't get exactly what they wanted. (If you think the Liberal majority government should have just caved to the third-largest party, you may be Mitch McConnell).

    If Singh is actually serious about PR being a condition of supporting... who are we kidding, the Liberal minority... then it sounds like they're promising a rerun of Martin's 2004/5 term.

    Tenek on
    shrykeGnome-InterruptusAridhol
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    El Skid wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    El Skid wrote: »
    I'm not sure why the NDP are not starting their messaging on electoral reform now.

    We're back into "anything but conservative" mode, and they desperately need something that sets them apart from the liberals for the ABC crowd to glom onto.

    Start your messaging now! Choose a system that is not FPTP and start educating people on how it works! Make your system the alternative everyone understands! Fucking hammer that you will be the party that finally gets rid of this shitstorm of FPTP and exactly how you will do it!

    Even if the Liberals counter, they have had 4 years and have accomplished nothing after touting electoral reform as a centerpiece of their platform, so they can't even really counter you!

    It's maddening that they have this simple way into the spotlight and are instead choosing to remain in the shadows...sigh.

    You mean sorta like this?

    https://www.fairvote.ca/2019/02/25/singh-will-be-a-strong-advocate-for-proportional-representation-in-the-house-of-commons-and-the-2019-federal-election/

    Not really since nobody noticed.

    Exactly. When people ask Singh in interviews, he says
    I believe the NDP can form government in 2019 and can bring in mixed member proportional representation.

    In a minority parliament, I would consult with our caucus and advocate for the inclusion of proportional representation as a condition of any alliance or support for a minority government.

    So that's fine... But it's not what I am talking about at all.

    Beat the drums. Make some inflammatory statements. Start talking about what proportional representation is and educating people on it. Get people talking about it!

    "Justin Trudeau promised Canadians to do away with First Past the Post and he lied to each and every one of us! Andrew Sheer will make sure First Past the Post is here forever! An NDP government WILL change this broken system into something where Canadians vote FOR what they believe in, not AGAINST what they don't! We are putting out a bunch of information on what Proportional Representation is and how it will change elections in Canada for the better... and we want everyone to read it and understand what it means for them. Go to our website to learn more, and to learn what else the NDP is going to do for Canada to fight Climate Change and poverty right across this great country!"

    Start your messaging now! Get everyone on board now! Don't sit back and answer interview questions and wait until the election happens!

    I think this is 100% correct.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    I've been feeling pessimistic about any sort of vote reform since the failed referendum in BC. Things just keep going the same way. Feel like it'll be a while before anyone wants to give it a go again in the hopes of a different result

    Cheer up. In Québec, the CAQ are working on implementing MMR. And they said clearly they intend to do it without a referendum. They argue that 3/4 major parties ran on a promise of bringing about MMR in the last election, and got a combined 75% of ridings and 70% of votes, so that's a pretty clear public mandate for the change. Their plan is already supported publicly by 2 of 3 opposition parties, the major non-partisan electoral reform group, and by all worker unions in the province in a rare joint public statement. So I'm cautiously optimistic that this one will happen.

    sig.gif
    shrykeCanadianWolverine
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Well if the parties all support the same method then they don't need a referendum yeah. The argument for unilaterally implementing your preferred method without the support of any other parties is much shakier

    Magic Box
    Academician Prokhor "Phyphor" Zakharov, Chief Scientist of China, Provost of the University of Planet - SE++ Megagame
    Gnome-Interruptus
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Phyphor wrote: »
    Well if the parties all support the same method then they don't need a referendum yeah. The argument for unilaterally implementing your preferred method without the support of any other parties is much shakier

    Not all parties. The Liberals are the one hold-out out of 4 parties with elected MMPs. Unsurprisingly they're also the only ones pushing for a referendum on the question.

    sig.gif
  • Descendant XDescendant X Hank Facepunch Registered User regular
    I really wish that our governments would stop doing referenda about stuff like the voting system and provincial sales taxes, at least in BC. The electorate is not to be trusted with these important decisions and are way too easy to manipulate.

    Bill van der Zalm managed to fuck up HST in BC for Christ’s sake.

    Something used to be here. It's gone now.
    RichyAridholmrondeauAegisCanadianWolverineForar
  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    I really wish that our governments would stop doing referenda about stuff like the voting system and provincial sales taxes, at least in BC. The electorate is not to be trusted with these important decisions and are way too easy to manipulate.

    Bill van der Zalm managed to fuck up HST in BC for Christ’s sake.

    I'm not saying you are wrong, I don't want this to be a whole thing. But this, right there? In bold? This is what they mean when they say that the "Far Left" is arrogant and sanctimonious.

    Is the electorate not to be trusted then on questions of video lottery terminals in NB? Or the building of a fixed link (which led to the awesome Confederation Bridge) in PEI? Or perhaps, most importantly, sovereignty in Quebec?

  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    It's not arrogant and sanctimonious to believe that the electorate often makes bad or short sighted selfish decisions.

    We elect governments to do what is best for the community, country etc...

    I'd NEVER suggest that people not be allowed to vote.
    I would suggest that governments need to stop asking people to weigh in on shit they don't understand and might not like in the short term.
    Why don't we let the government do a referendum on whether people should pay taxes? Because we know how it'll go.

    I think we can disagree whether electoral reform goes into that kind of category and I think it does.

    Gnome-InterruptusDescendant XmrondeauMortiousCaulk Bite 6
  • Descendant XDescendant X Hank Facepunch Registered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    I really wish that our governments would stop doing referenda about stuff like the voting system and provincial sales taxes, at least in BC. The electorate is not to be trusted with these important decisions and are way too easy to manipulate.

    Bill van der Zalm managed to fuck up HST in BC for Christ’s sake.

    I'm not saying you are wrong, I don't want this to be a whole thing. But this, right there? In bold? This is what they mean when they say that the "Far Left" is arrogant and sanctimonious.

    Is the electorate not to be trusted then on questions of video lottery terminals in NB? Or the building of a fixed link (which led to the awesome Confederation Bridge) in PEI? Or perhaps, most importantly, sovereignty in Quebec?

    Dude, I am arrogant and sanctimonious. :biggrin:

    But seriously, I do believe that there are important decisions that the electorate should not be allowed to get within spitting distance of. In general, I believe those things are generally related to how government is run and taxes, because the electorate is going to rush to shoot itself in the foot every time.

    Your examples are good issues for referendums. Amusingly enough, while I agree with a referendum for Quebec sovereignty, I disagree with the Brexit referendum.

    Something used to be here. It's gone now.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Unilaterally changing the voting system remains a dangerous idea. You want buy in from either other political parties or the public via referendum. Or something else equivalent to that.

    Gnome-InterruptusBouwsTfinnithSteelhawk
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Steelhawk wrote: »
    I really wish that our governments would stop doing referenda about stuff like the voting system and provincial sales taxes, at least in BC. The electorate is not to be trusted with these important decisions and are way too easy to manipulate.

    Bill van der Zalm managed to fuck up HST in BC for Christ’s sake.

    I'm not saying you are wrong, I don't want this to be a whole thing. But this, right there? In bold? This is what they mean when they say that the "Far Left" is arrogant and sanctimonious.

    Is the electorate not to be trusted then on questions of video lottery terminals in NB? Or the building of a fixed link (which led to the awesome Confederation Bridge) in PEI? Or perhaps, most importantly, sovereignty in Quebec?

    Wait, why should building a bridge require a referendum rather than just having the Premiere(s) tell DOT to issue bonds and build a bridge?

    AridholCaulk Bite 6
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