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[Canadian Politics] Takin' out the trash to replace it with... whoops.

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Posts

  • KetBraKetBra FISTS OF JUSTICE! Registered User regular
    I think that would be a reasonable thing to do. There's not really room for two parties left of the Liberals.

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  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    I think that would be a reasonable thing to do. There's not really room for two parties left of the Liberals.

    Not in the current FPTP regime anyway...thanks Justin.

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  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    The greens don't seem like they'd be keen on merging. Why erase a party on the rise?

  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    That's why merger talk is really just a misunderstood coalition deal, like what we have in BC on the provincial level. They don't have to erase their party to be in a position that is favourable to both parties on the ballot. And the more openly they discuss it in a confident and "this is inevitable" manner leading up to the election, the better chance it has of voters backing their play.

    But that's easy for me to say, I see parties themselves as just coalitions of MPs or MLAs that have agreed to a common header. If tomorrow every single MP and MLA in our country just sat as a Independent, we would still have a government made up of those that could get along enough to have a majority of seats and I would be ok with that.

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    Aridhol
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    I'm ok with coalition governments.
    I think it's a hard equation to manage with FPTP voting in each riding though.


    It's a frustrating dilemma. The left doesn't want their parties to amalgamate as one uber center-left party (libs, greens, NDP) but the right has no problem whatsoever doing this as long as they can stick it to the (Libs, muslims, natives, insert group we hate here). How do you win when the other side doesn't give a shit about anything but beating you?

  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    Thing is, that isn't all they care about or Bernier's party would have never got off the ground. I mean, its like kinda only doing some weird yoga move that just barely counts as not lying flat on their back but given what I remember being the beginnings of Reform, I haven't counted them out as a possible source of future misery that I didn't recognize till it was too late again.

    Shit, one of the things we begrudgingly gave Harper kudos for was keeping their big tent from being ripped open by their wack jobs until suddenly he just couldn't keep em in check anymore and joined in their cries for just giving hatred another chance, yeeeeesh.

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    DanHibiki
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Berniers party is dead in the water and the much more relevant example is UCP.


  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Thing is, that isn't all they care about or Bernier's party would have never got off the ground. I mean, its like kinda only doing some weird yoga move that just barely counts as not lying flat on their back but given what I remember being the beginnings of Reform, I haven't counted them out as a possible source of future misery that I didn't recognize till it was too late again.

    Shit, one of the things we begrudgingly gave Harper kudos for was keeping their big tent from being ripped open by their wack jobs until suddenly he just couldn't keep em in check anymore and joined in their cries for just giving hatred another chance, yeeeeesh.

    I sure as hell didn't give him credit for that shit. Harper didn't keep them in check, he kept them quiet. Because his entire strategy was always to appear like way less of a wack job then he was through incredibly strict message discipline. He sold hard-right as centre-right.

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  • CanadianWolverineCanadianWolverine Registered User regular
    Keeping them quiet isn't keeping them in check? I don't know how many politicians you know, but the few I know really like to talk.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Keeping them quiet isn't keeping them in check? I don't know how many politicians you know, but the few I know really like to talk.

    No, it's not. Keeping them in check implies you want to stop what they are doing. Keeping them quiet just means you don't want them to tell anyone what they wanna do. All Harper cared about was that they shut their fucking mouths so no one caught on how fucking crazy they were.

  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    Hey as an Ontarian what can I do to make Doug Ford's life as miserable as possible?

    Fucking sick of these morally bankrupt garbage humans.

    I've voted NDP in every election but clearly that hasn't done anything. What is the next step in actually taking political action?

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  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    Hey as an Ontarian what can I do to make Doug Ford's life as miserable as possible?

    Fucking sick of these morally bankrupt garbage humans.

    I've voted NDP in every election but clearly that hasn't done anything. What is the next step in actually taking political action?

    Protest, voter drives, letter writing campaign, etc.

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    Brolo
  • GeddoeGeddoe Registered User regular
    I'm not sure Ford cares about any of those things.

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  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited May 1
    Geddoe wrote: »
    I'm not sure Ford cares about any of those things.

    The more active the opposition, the more the rest of the Ontario Conservatives are miserable, and then they make Ford miserable with their whining about it.

    Bonus points if you can get your protests or letter writing campaign publicity and into the news, so Ford will be harassed by reporters looking for a reaction to them.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Geddoe wrote: »
    I'm not sure Ford cares about any of those things.

    The more active the opposition, the more the rest of the Ontario Conservatives are miserable, and then they make Ford miserable with their whining about it.

    Bonus points if you can get your protests or letter writing campaign publicity and into the news, so Ford will be harassed by reporters looking for a reaction to them.

    You mean the reporters hiding behind a barrier of paid government employees who applaud Ford loudly? Yeah they seem like real go-getters. I mean, they gave Ford a pass on all his other scandals, but I'm sure the letter-writing campaign is the one they'll really stick him on!

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  • CorporateGoonCorporateGoon Registered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    Hey as an Ontarian what can I do to make Doug Ford's life as miserable as possible?

    Fucking sick of these morally bankrupt garbage humans.

    I've voted NDP in every election but clearly that hasn't done anything. What is the next step in actually taking political action?

    Memes and videos. Make memes that show him in a bad light, regardless of context or overall veracity. In particular, you can focus on how much money his actions have cost the province. Show up at any public event where he's scheduled to be, yell at him, and post video on youtube. Tweets are also good if you can get a group together to make something trend.

  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    edited May 1
    Reznik wrote: »
    Hey as an Ontarian what can I do to make Doug Ford's life as miserable as possible?

    Fucking sick of these morally bankrupt garbage humans.

    I've voted NDP in every election but clearly that hasn't done anything. What is the next step in actually taking political action?

    Memes and videos. Make memes that show him in a bad light, regardless of context or overall veracity. In particular, you can focus on how much money his actions have cost the province. Show up at any public event where he's scheduled to be, yell at him, and post video on youtube. Tweets are also good if you can get a group together to make something trend.

    I did come up with a few 'Doug Ford Hates Ontario' poster ideas on the way to work this morning...

    Was also trying to figure out how much ad space would cost in a conservative leaning paper.

    Reznik on
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  • SteelhawkSteelhawk Registered User regular
    I don't know your age, but if I can assume that you are on the younger side then I would also assume that you have many friends and/or acquaintances who tend not to vote. Get them informed and get them out to the polling stations on voting day. The best, most effective thing I can think of get old white men out of power is to enfranchise the millennials and encourage them to vote. Not bitch about government yet do nothing on voting day. But to actually get out there and vote.

    Easier said than done, of course. But that is the only thing that is going to do it.

    AridholAegis
  • CorporateGoonCorporateGoon Registered User regular
    edited May 1
    Reznik wrote: »
    Reznik wrote: »
    Hey as an Ontarian what can I do to make Doug Ford's life as miserable as possible?

    Fucking sick of these morally bankrupt garbage humans.

    I've voted NDP in every election but clearly that hasn't done anything. What is the next step in actually taking political action?

    Memes and videos. Make memes that show him in a bad light, regardless of context or overall veracity. In particular, you can focus on how much money his actions have cost the province. Show up at any public event where he's scheduled to be, yell at him, and post video on youtube. Tweets are also good if you can get a group together to make something trend.

    I did come up with a few 'Doug Ford Hates Ontario' poster ideas on the way to work this morning...

    Was also trying to figure out how much ad space would cost in a conservative leaning paper.

    Newspaper ads probably aren't worth it. The people who are influenced by them are just as likely to be influenced by something they saw on Facebook, and sharing a meme costs nothing. The ideal method would be to attack him from both the left and the right, for example by saying he's both too tough and too soft on teachers.

    Edit: In two different memes, of course. Although, it might be interesting to see the effects of a meme that contradicts itself. Any of the academics here want to run a study on something like that?

    CorporateGoon on
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  • EtiowsaEtiowsa Registered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    Hey as an Ontarian what can I do to make Doug Ford's life as miserable as possible?

    Fucking sick of these morally bankrupt garbage humans.

    I've voted NDP in every election but clearly that hasn't done anything. What is the next step in actually taking political action?

    I would suggest getting a party membership and joining your local riding association. The NDP and the Liberals especially are fucking desperate for money and bodies to get people to remember they exist. Plus they sometimes will do some of those fun protest things.

    Gnome-InterruptusCanadianWolverine
  • Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    Reznik wrote: »
    Hey as an Ontarian what can I do to make Doug Ford's life as miserable as possible?

    Fucking sick of these morally bankrupt garbage humans.

    I've voted NDP in every election but clearly that hasn't done anything. What is the next step in actually taking political action?

    If you're able, show up to the rallies. There were a couple last month, and I'm sure there will be more in the future.

  • ReznikReznik Registered User regular
    Well, there's step one done. I'm now a member of the ONDP. Let's see what they've got planned.

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    Forget it...
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Given the past like 10 years with them? Nothing smart.

    ApogeeKetBra
  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    Just watched an attack ad on Justin Trudeau... oof.

    Not sure if it's effective at all, since it does a gotcha! (You thought we were talking about Trump, but really we were talking about Justin Trudeau!), plus pretending it's a news program (ticker tape at the bottom) just makes it sneaky.

    Might even turn off Trudeau haters, since it implies that Trump is just as corrupt as Trudeau, which many of them support.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Don't underestimate right-wing cognitive dissonance. I'm still bitter about my parents, during the Canada Post lock-out/back-to-work thing during Harper's reign, arguing that "Canada Post is useless and dying, we can't afford benefits, but they're an essential service so we need this law." Conservative voters are people who accept "climate change is real and a problem, let's vote against the party trying to do something about it and for the party making things worse".

    "Trudeau is as bad as Trump, we should vote for Scheer he's as great as Trump" can work on these people. They'll never see the contradiction in it.

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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular


    This guy's a PPC supporter and apparently utterly irrelevant in every other way. Which...okay, sure. I mean I think a fetus grows fastest in the embryo stage, at least by percentage. If you go from 1 person one day to 2 the next, that's 100% growth for your party in a day.

    And he's also right in that I think the media should be paying more attention to the growing threat of white supremacy being mainstreamed in Canadian politics.

    That said there's still several months to the election. It's quite possible that the PPC could make a lot of inroads.

    But on the very faint bright side, if they get just big enough by the election, they might siphon off enough Conservative votes that the Liberals, or maybe even the NDP if enough Liberal voters switch or abstain, to hold on to a majority. Then there'll be a whole 'nother governmental term to figure out how to crush them properly.

    Still, I do not trust to hope. It has forsaken these lands.

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
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  • TubularLuggageTubularLuggage Registered User regular
    KetBra wrote: »
    I think that would be a reasonable thing to do. There's not really room for two parties left of the Liberals.

    In provincial politics, this is pretty well demonstrated in Atlantic Canada. In PEI and New Brunswick, the Greens are on the rise while the NDP are basically non-existent. Meanwhile, in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland and Labrador, the NDP have become mainstays (having even formed a majority government in NS), while the Greens are nowhere to be seen.

  • NosfNosf Registered User regular
    Those crazy Greens took another federal riding in BC. Articles trumpet "Environment might matter this election!"

    Wonder how the greens and bernier's goof troop will spoil the election?

  • El SkidEl Skid The frozen white northRegistered User regular
    The Greens winning this (after the same candidate came 4th in the last election) is a super good sign. I'm hoping this moves climate change to the centre stage in the upcoming Federal elections, and into every party's talking points and plans if they are elected.

    The 3 left/centre parties splitting the not-right votes evenly three ways is nightmare fuel for me though in a FPTP system.

    mrpaku wrote: »
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  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    El Skid wrote: »
    The Greens winning this (after the same candidate came 4th in the last election) is a super good sign. I'm hoping this moves climate change to the centre stage in the upcoming Federal elections, and into every party's talking points and plans if they are elected.

    The 3 left/centre parties splitting the not-right votes evenly three ways is nightmare fuel for me though in a FPTP system.

    I'm not really sure how to reconcile those two statements. Is there some option where the Liberal climate plan is so awesome that the Greens just agree to disband the party? Or are they content to let Scheer nuke the carbon tax as long as they get to complain about it?

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • ComahawkComahawk Registered User regular
    edited May 7
    CBC Article About Gun Control

    New CBC article about the debate over gun control in Canada.

    It annoys me a little bit that doctors are starting to lobby against lawful gun ownership on what appears to be pretty spurious grounds. Also, accusing gun owners of lobbying while you are also doing the same thing is a little disingenuous.

    I'm a long time gun owner and used to (haven't had time recently) actively compete in competitions. I believe gun control is necessary and really think there are ways to make our system better. I don't believe banning "assault rifle style" and handguns will have any of the desired effects those supporting such changes want them to. That said, I also don't think anything is going to happen before the election, just based on how support for the various parties is shifting across the country.

    I'm starting to think the writing is on the wall, and some sort of un-rational, ineffective laws impacting law abiding gun owners are going to pass sooner rather than later. It's disappointing that shooting sports and responsible gun owners are going to take the hit on this. But I know myself and others in my family are considering selling our collections, at least to mitigate the financial loss.

    edit: I suck at BBCode

    Comahawk on
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  • El SkidEl Skid The frozen white northRegistered User regular
    Tenek wrote: »
    El Skid wrote: »
    The Greens winning this (after the same candidate came 4th in the last election) is a super good sign. I'm hoping this moves climate change to the centre stage in the upcoming Federal elections, and into every party's talking points and plans if they are elected.

    The 3 left/centre parties splitting the not-right votes evenly three ways is nightmare fuel for me though in a FPTP system.

    I'm not really sure how to reconcile those two statements. Is there some option where the Liberal climate plan is so awesome that the Greens just agree to disband the party? Or are they content to let Scheer nuke the carbon tax as long as they get to complain about it?

    Climate change needs to be discussed more in debates, and be part of people's choice when they vote. Especially considering the Conservatives' plan is likely going to be at best pseudo science and disproven ideas. This is separate from the second statement, which is having a third viable party is going to be a nightmare, only because FPTP doesn't lend itself to electing multiple parties on the same sort of spectrum of policies.

    mrpaku wrote: »
    my name is precisionk and i'm ten tanks

    wrath God fear traitor evil
  • ComahawkComahawk Registered User regular
    El Skid wrote: »
    Tenek wrote: »
    El Skid wrote: »
    The Greens winning this (after the same candidate came 4th in the last election) is a super good sign. I'm hoping this moves climate change to the centre stage in the upcoming Federal elections, and into every party's talking points and plans if they are elected.

    The 3 left/centre parties splitting the not-right votes evenly three ways is nightmare fuel for me though in a FPTP system.

    I'm not really sure how to reconcile those two statements. Is there some option where the Liberal climate plan is so awesome that the Greens just agree to disband the party? Or are they content to let Scheer nuke the carbon tax as long as they get to complain about it?

    Climate change needs to be discussed more in debates, and be part of people's choice when they vote. Especially considering the Conservatives' plan is likely going to be at best pseudo science and disproven ideas. This is separate from the second statement, which is having a third viable party is going to be a nightmare, only because FPTP doesn't lend itself to electing multiple parties on the same sort of spectrum of policies.

    It would be nice to have a centrist party that doesn't just seem to get themselves caught up in scandals every time they are elected.

    I'm concerned with the upcoming election as I don't really know which party to vote for anymore. Normally I vote federally with a mind to get a certain party in power, but I think I will just be choosing whatever local, non-Conservative politician seems best. Which will likely be a waste, since I'm in Saskatchewan now and can pretty much guarantee it will be the Conservatives who win.

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    Apogee
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    Barring some miracle in the debates or news the only party currently with a shot at defeating the Conservatives is the liberals so that choice is pretty easy for me.

    I fully expect a split left and minority con government though and since the NDP and liberals are pathologically unable to get along it will stay a minority.

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  • LaOsLaOs Registered User regular
    Comahawk wrote: »
    I'm concerned with the upcoming election as I don't really know which party to vote for anymore. Normally I vote federally with a mind to get a certain party in power, but I think I will just be choosing whatever local, non-Conservative politician seems best. Which will likely be a waste, since I'm in Saskatchewan now and can pretty much guarantee it will be the Conservatives who win.

    Yeah, we're pretty screwed here.

    At least our provincial courts upheld the validity of the Federal carbon tax.

    Comahawk
  • ComahawkComahawk Registered User regular
    LaOs wrote: »
    Comahawk wrote: »
    I'm concerned with the upcoming election as I don't really know which party to vote for anymore. Normally I vote federally with a mind to get a certain party in power, but I think I will just be choosing whatever local, non-Conservative politician seems best. Which will likely be a waste, since I'm in Saskatchewan now and can pretty much guarantee it will be the Conservatives who win.

    Yeah, we're pretty screwed here.

    At least our provincial courts upheld the validity of the Federal carbon tax.

    The hatred of the Carbon Tax here is incredible to me. It has virtually no impact on the average citizen once you do your taxes, but everyone is convinced the federal government is trying to kill the middle class here.

    Although, I think they don't want to acknowledge that they can't really afford the truck they drive and this is just putting more nails in the coffin of their ownership. I forgot how many people have SUVs and trucks on the prairies. I get the farmers and trades people who need them for work, but people using them to commute to work is just bizarre. It's like they hate having money.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • ArcticLancerArcticLancer Best served chilled. Registered User regular
    It really goes back to that cultural identity. Trucks are what they are, even if they aren't practical. It's just what they've dealt with all their life and never had to think differently (a common thread across a lot of these issues). I don't even mean this in a shady way.

    Gnome-InterruptusComahawkTubularLuggage
  • AridholAridhol Daddliest Catch Registered User regular
    I love my truck but there's no way I'm using it to drive to my office job.
    I don't need a v8 to get through stop and go traffic.

    That said, it might be tough as you need it sometimes and not everyone has enough cash to own and insure 2 vehicles.

    The carbon tax still benefits most people though so the whole thing is "damn tree hugging liberals!"
    It's pure us vs them, not an intellectual response to the policy itself.

    If King Harper introduced it it would be a "smart business move."

    ComahawkGnome-InterruptusCaulk Bite 6Shadowen
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