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[Diablo 3] Season 16, 1/18: Free-RoRG effect (more info and Switch list in OP)

NogginNoggin Registered User regular
edited January 10 in Games and Technology
LHB88gh.png
PA Clan - The Merch Hungers *details below*


This thread is mostly for discussion of Diablo III - including sharing items, ideas and advice, plans for new seasons, hopes for new content, and so on. It sounds like those hopes will finally be addressed at this year's Blizzcon. We already know about the Switch version releasing the same day (11/2), so the remaining rumors include a Diablo I or II Remaster, a Druid class DLC, or even the long fabled Diablo 4!?

How to join The Merch Hungers
Join the community PAF to request an invite!
Everyone from the forum is absolutely welcome to join! However, it is important to remember that there is a cap of 150 players. The clan needs to keep space available for new and returning players, especially just before a new patch or season.

Unfortunately, this means players that have been missing for 2-3 months may lose their spot. Don't Panic! Even if you find yourself removed from the clan, you are always welcome to return! (Stricken but saved, since interest has been lower)

Switch player list
akjak - 4133-1546-2720
Bullhead - 8584-3896-5292
DoctorArch - 6732-9515-9697
eMoander - 3304-2356-9421
Kreutz - 1865-7515-8884
Kyanilis - 2835-3370-3810
Lindsay Lohan - 4979-2868-8944
Russad - 5307-0485-5998
Septus - 3333-7299-5216
skeldare - 3353-5433-5137
Stormwatcher - 5961-4777-3491
themightypuck - 1501-9129-2620
TimFiji - 2322-2047-3148
TNTrooper - 6905-2510-1809
UncleSporky - 5443-2358-9118
urahonky - 0354-0000-5457
Wraithverge - 0125-6851-0236
Entaru
Rehab
mojojoeo
DarkMecha

How to disable legendary item notifications in clan chat
  • Open the clan window ( Hotkey N )
  • Click the "News" tab
  • Above the top-right corner of the feed, click the "Gear" button
  • Uncheck "Items"

Season 16 Information:
Season 16: Season of Grandeur starts 1/18 and is expected to end on 3/17. During that time, seasonal characters can activate 3, 4, and 6 piece set bonuses with one less item (2, 3, or 5). The effect does not stack when wearing nor cubing RoRG, and does not work with Legacy of Nightmares or any other two-item set.

The free sets this season are:
- IK Barb ( open-ended... HotA, Charge )
- Seeker Crusader ( hammerdin )
- Natalya DH ( open-ended... N6M4 sentry hybrid for GRs )
- Uliana Monk ( seven sided strike & exploding palm )
- Trag'Oul Necro ( hp-spenders... mainly corpse lance or blood mages )
- Arachyr Doc ( Firebats, Angry Chicken )
- Vyr's Wizard ( Archon )

Early Progression Tips & Conquests:
- Make Journey Chapters 2-4 priority #1 (free set)
- At 70, go for the most important enchants on your RARE items
- Save DBs to upgrade rare weapon(s), Use Blood Shards for offhands & non-set armor, then rings
- (Optional) Do the Challenge Rift after the season starts for a boost of resources.
Conquests:
- Speed Demon - Torment X rift in < 2 minutes
- On a Good Day - 3x gems to level 65+
- Boss Mode - Torment X boss rush in < 20 minutes
- Curses - 350+ kills on a cursed chest
- Years of War - Clear GR55 with 6 different class sets

Chapters 2-4 are priority #1
Drops, including resources like blood shards and death's breaths, start out real slow and random and only become more common by raising the difficulty. Here is a table of how difficulty level affects monsters, XP, and drop rates. Haedrigs Gift isn't random at all, so focusing on getting your pieces as soon as possible makes a big difference. If you keep an eye on the first four boss objectives, run any 5 bounties, get your cube, and max your artisans it's possible to get your first two pieces the exact moment you hit 70.

At 70, go for the most important enchants on your RARE items
Enchanting is a great way to improve your damage and toughness, and enchanting rares does not use up your death's breaths, leaving you more DBs to upgrade weapons! You can go up another 1-2 torment levels just by having the right enchants. Certain slots are better for damage, while others are better for toughness:
Damage enchants on: Helm & offhands ( crit ), Amulets* ( crit hit dmg ), Gloves & Rings* ( crit / chd ), Bracers ( ele dmg % / cc), Weapon ( socket > dmg % )
Toughness enchants on: Shoulder, Chest, Pants, Boots, and Belt... All res** for Str/Dex classes, Armor for Int classes.

* Once you get legendary gems, sockets become the single most important stat on rings, and eventually amulets. Early on, CHD on neck is just too valuable compared to an unleveled gem.
** All Res will not be an option on gear that already has a secondary resist. Hit the '?' to see what else is good, like Life % or a skill damage increase.

Prioritize your blood shards
Kadala has varying costs and varying results, so it's best to use her to fill in your non-set armor first. For the most part that means offhands, bracers, and a belt.

Replace all your rares before going after specific items. Rings can be and often are worth it, but amulets are really, really not... just wait for one. Never buy weapons!

Note that the challenge rift reward helps with every previous point!
It's something like 4 million gold, 10 DBs, 15 of each bounty mat, and 450 blood shards... even if you don't do it right away before leveling, it helps SO much in those early chapters.

Also note that this creates concurrent, somewhat-overlapping progression paths. Use resources carefully!
The Journey gives you your set, enchants boost your stats, DBs get you weapons, and blood shards let you pursue your set-supporting skill boosts. Being careful about the overlap (too many enchants slows down weapons, and vice versa), and learning to prioritize the slots that can boost your skills, makes you more efficient with your resources and speeds up progression.

Doing the Challenge Rift early in the season (after it starts!) is a great way to get a head start. It's something like 4 million gold, 10 DBs, 15 of each bounty mat, and 450 blood shards.

Season 16 class specific advice:
This is my recommendation for how to use all of your starting resources for each class, including some starting skills, level 1 gambling opportunities, and my opinions on how to spend DBs and shards (after replacing all non-Neck rares).
Barbarian:
Free set: Immortal King's Call
Skills boosted: General purpose. Call of the Ancients - Together as One increases your toughness, Wrath of the Berserker - Insanity for more damage.

Lvl 1 gambling: Can get Band of Might for toughness, or bracers to make use of Slam/Hammer damage.
Lvl 70 gambling: Shoulders if you want to use Furious Charge, Bracers if you want to use Hammer of the Ancients. Wait on belts: You probably won't even need one because you'll already get the IK belt.

Death's Breath priority: 2H Polearms for Standoff (Furious Charge) or 2H Mighty Weapons for Gavel of Judgement (Hammer of the Ancients). If HotA, cube the hammer and start using fast 1h weapons, while trying to get Istvan's Paired Blades (1h swords).
Crusader:
Free set: Seeker of the Light
Skills boosted: Blessed Hammer

Lvl 1 gambling: Shields for Hammer damage, bracers for resource management.
Lvl 70 gambling: Lvl 70 versions of the above. Save Frydehr's (Condemn shield) if you get one.

Death's Breath priority: Depends on how lucky you feel. You're more likely to get the 1h flail for blessed hammer, but Faithful Memory (2h sword) can have more of an impact. Save Blade of Prophecy (Condemn 2h sword if you get one).
Demon Hunter:
Free set: Natalya's Vengeance
Skills boosted: General purpose. Requires a ranged weapon and frequent casting of Rain of Vengeance.

Lvl 1 gambling: Wraps of Clarity bracers for toughness, Hellcat Waistguard for grenades
Lvl 70 gambling: Get a skill boosting quiver and use that to get started. Bracers for Wraps of Clarity / Nemesis. Then you'll start going for other sets, along with belts for the flavors of Marauders (Zoey's Secret) or Impale (Chain of Shadows), and the relevant quiver (Bombardier's / Holy Point / Dead Man's).

Death's Breath priority: 2h Xbow for Manticore (sentries), 2h Bow for Yang's (Multishot), and/or 1h dagger for Karlei's (Impale). Dagger is a decent contender for first upgrade because it's a 50/50 shot between Impale or Fan of Knives.

*Discipline*: If going for Unhallowed Multishot, Discipline is extremely important. Use the Skill Preparation - Invigoration, and enchant 9-12 disc on your cloak, bow, and quiver. Aim for 80-85 disc, and keep it topped off... the damage is based on current disc, not max.
Monk:
Free set: Uliana's Stratagem
Skills boosted: Seven-Sided Strike and Exploding Palm.

Lvl 1 gambling: Crudest boots if you intend to play Inna's or Sunwuko Wave of Light, otherwise definitely Gungdo gear for exploding palm chains.
Lvl 70 gambling: Bracers if you still need gungdo gear, and spirit guards doesn't hurt. Belts for Bind of the Lost (toughness from SSS). Lefebvre's (shoulders) with Cyclone Strike is nice for toughness and gathering monsters.

Death's Breath priority: Daibos Daibos Daibos. You'll definitely need fists too (Lion's Claw & Fist of Az..) but the set is going to feel super clunky without Flow of Eternity extracted as your cube's weapon power.
Necromancer:
Free set: Trag'Oul's Avatar
Skills boosted: Life spenders and healing skills (including blood rush when passing through monsters).

Lvl 1 gambling: Rings - Circle of Nailuj doublecasts mages, so it's great for leveling and necessary if you want to use Blood Mages.
Lvl 70 gambling: Phylacteries, Rings, Belts. Get any legendary phylactery just to have the higher damage. Dayntee's Binding belt if you are lacking toughness, but the Circle of Nailuj and Krysbin's Sentence rings are both crucial for your damage. Tasker and Theo (gloves) if using mages, Corpsewhisper Pauldrons (shoulders) if you like Corpse Lance builds.

Death's Breath priority: 1h Scythes, followed by 2h. TragOul's Fang is good, Scythe of the Cycle with Bone Armor for mages. Switch to 2h Scythes for Reilena's Shadowhook, then get +Max Essence from paragon, the passive, and weapon+offhand enchants if you can. With both weapons, go for rings.
Witch Doctor:
Free set: Spirit of Arachyr
Skills boosted: Firebats for GRs, Locust Swarm or Hex in torments

Lvl 1 gambling: nothing really available.
Lvl 70 gambling: Mojo just to have one, Vile Hive if you plan to stick with it. Lakumba's bracers for toughness. Ring of Emptiness and/or Bakuli Jungle Wraps (belt) if staying fore firebats, otherwise go for Jade or Helltooth sets. Jade: Quetzalcoatl mask. Helltooth gargs: Mask of Jeram, Tasker of Theo (gloves), Short Man's Finger (ring).

Don't necessarily go for Manajuma's ( knife + mojo set ), but if you get both you can make a very fast Hex-Angry Chicken build with the Grave Injustice passive and/or In-geom as your cubed weapon.

Death's Breath priority: Sacred Harvester (ceremonial knife) boosts damage, and also toughness when paired with Lakumba's bracers. Once you have that, DBs can help you get the rings and masks.
Wizard:
Free set: Vyr's Amazing Arcana
Skills boosted: Archon.

Lvl 1 gambling: Ashnagarr's bracers, but you're going to want a level 70 pair anyway so...
Lvl 27-34 gambling: Wait what? Ya... wizards can benefit so much in this range that it gets it's own note. 27 for Manald Heal ring if you want to fry stuff with lightning, 30 for the Swami if you want to play Archon, 33 for Etched Sigil if you want to channel endless meteors, and 34 for Halo of Karini if you like not dying. All of these are harder to get at 70, so it can even be worth it to make an alt just to get them.
Lvl 70 gambling: The Swami (wiz hat) is absolutely necessary, the set feels terrible without it. Focus on that, then probably Fazula's belt for an all around boost and obsidian ring of the zodiac for resetting archon.

Death's Breath priority: THE SWAMI. Ahem... after that I dunno that I'd throw DBs at rings in this case, unless you're super invested in Archon. You'll also need to dump some DBs into enchants because you need CDR all over the place.

If you want to end up with one of the channeling or frozen orb builds instead... Deathwish sword and Etched Sigil orb for the former, Unstable Scepter wand and Triumvirate orb for the latter. You can even pretend that's your build when outside archon (thanks to Swami's buff) until you have Tal's / Firebird's / LoN.

So who has the best/easiest start in Season 16?
- Hammerdin might be the fastest "run and done" journey. Doesn't need much.
- IK Barb and Nat DH are open-ended, can use Sage's, and lead to strong combos.
- Blood Mage Necro and Arachyr Doc are better than they get credit for.
- Archon Wiz and Uliana Monk can be clunky without their key items, but have great alternatives.

Of course, that's just for starting out, and is not meant to be an assessment of the entire season. Rhykker's tier list is better for estimating GR potential, and also pretty good for seeing what other sorts of builds are out there.


Finally, some other helpful resources: Official Site | Diablofans.com | Builds | Difficulty Levels & Drop Rates | r/Diablo Subreddit

- Thanks to Previous Thread makers Skab, GoodKingJayIII, Bethryn, Shen, SkutSkut, HexDex, _J_, and Noggin

Battletag: Noggin#1936 || PSN: Noggin37 || Steam
Noggin on
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Posts

  • NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    To carry over a bit from the last thread... there's a PTR coming this week! Dehumanized had a pretty good summary:
    the tl;dr:

    -more armory sets
    -greater keystones are now a Material
    -primal legendaries get distinct new visuals from regular legendaries when on the ground
    -paragon points can't be swapped in GRs anymore (this will probably shift up the meta a bit, with wizards no longer able to paragon swap from Int to Vit to phase through mobs with Mutilation Guard)
    -new seasonal bonus is a Permanant RoRG effect for all players
    -primal legendary guaranteed drop from first GR70 clear of the season
    -LoN buffed to 500%
    -almost every class set's 6-bonus massively buffed too

    For some context on those set buffs... currently people tend to think of Condemn crusader, Firebird Star Pact wiz, and Corpse Lance necros as the top of the solo board. This provides a good frame of reference for what first appears to be nonsensical set buffs. Doubling your damage gets you roughly 5 more GR levels, quadrupling gets you about 10, and so on. Many builds just really are that far behind the top builds!

    Now there's going to be A LOT of builds at (or close) to that GR potential.

    If you've played it before, it's probably back. So much so that it's much easier to list the exceptions: Helltooth, Vyr, Inna, and Zuni seem like they'll still be on the lower end, but may now be on par with Rathma necros, which is pretty good.

    The only real losers are non-condemn akkhan ( blessed shield / heaven's fury ), Grace of Inarius, and Legacy of Nightmares. The buff to LoN isn't enough, and also cannot benefit from the seasonal RoRG effect.

    Noggin on
    Battletag: Noggin#1936 || PSN: Noggin37 || Steam
  • BetsuniBetsuni Insert Disk 4 and Press Any Key to Continue Registered User regular
    Woo, time for that new ash smell.

    oosik_betsuni.png
    Steam: betsuni7
    Klatu
  • DaimarDaimar A Million Feet Tall of Awesome Registered User regular
    With the buffs I think I'll give the next season a go as long as I can get a permission slip from Warframe.

    steam_sig.png
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    I'm not done-done yet but I got Civ 6 and then Warframe today. But I do want to finish the season journey and I got 2 more weeks to do that 20 min speed run. And of course will be back to try a new character next season, and the January Tristram event. :o

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    Noggin wrote: »
    If you've played it before, it's probably back. So much so that it's much easier to list the exceptions: Helltooth, Vyr, Inna, and Zuni seem like they'll still be on the lower end, but may now be on par with Rathma necros, which is pretty good.

    The only real losers are non-condemn akkhan ( blessed shield / heaven's fury ), Grace of Inarius, and Legacy of Nightmares. The buff to LoN isn't enough, and also cannot benefit from the seasonal RoRG effect.
    So should I interpret the changes to mean that all but one Necro set (I forgot which one and don't have a link to the notes) are considered top tier?

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Noggin wrote: »
    If you've played it before, it's probably back. So much so that it's much easier to list the exceptions: Helltooth, Vyr, Inna, and Zuni seem like they'll still be on the lower end, but may now be on par with Rathma necros, which is pretty good.

    The only real losers are non-condemn akkhan ( blessed shield / heaven's fury ), Grace of Inarius, and Legacy of Nightmares. The buff to LoN isn't enough, and also cannot benefit from the seasonal RoRG effect.
    So should I interpret the changes to mean that all but one Necro set (I forgot which one and don't have a link to the notes) are considered top tier?

    And even the necro set being modified is getting like a 15% boost when every other set is getting a 200% or 300% boost.

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
    forty
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Noggin wrote: »
    If you've played it before, it's probably back. So much so that it's much easier to list the exceptions: Helltooth, Vyr, Inna, and Zuni seem like they'll still be on the lower end, but may now be on par with Rathma necros, which is pretty good.

    The only real losers are non-condemn akkhan ( blessed shield / heaven's fury ), Grace of Inarius, and Legacy of Nightmares. The buff to LoN isn't enough, and also cannot benefit from the seasonal RoRG effect.
    So should I interpret the changes to mean that all but one Necro set (I forgot which one and don't have a link to the notes) are considered top tier?
    A link to the PTR notes: https://us.diablo3.com/en/blog/22753282/patch-264-ptr-preview-11-19-2018?linkId=100000004082190

    I think I'd interpret it as "We're really interested in testing these sets on the test realm, and the best way to guarantee that we'll have people testing them is to give them bigger numbers.".
    But that's kind of assuming there are some additional changes to the sets that they didn't publish, which I don't know if that's a thing Blizzard does or not.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    Noggin wrote: »
    If you've played it before, it's probably back. So much so that it's much easier to list the exceptions: Helltooth, Vyr, Inna, and Zuni seem like they'll still be on the lower end, but may now be on par with Rathma necros, which is pretty good.

    The only real losers are non-condemn akkhan ( blessed shield / heaven's fury ), Grace of Inarius, and Legacy of Nightmares. The buff to LoN isn't enough, and also cannot benefit from the seasonal RoRG effect.
    So should I interpret the changes to mean that all but one Necro set (I forgot which one and don't have a link to the notes) are considered top tier?

    In a way, yes.

    I haven't looked at the highest records in a while, but both Pestilence and Trag'Oul variants of the Land of the Dead Corpse Lance nonsense had very high clears. The bone spear/corpse explosion/blood nova/blood mages versions of those sets are not considered top tier for GRs, but see play in T13 farming.

    Rathma is in a weird spot where it's not the best solo but has been the best for 4 player speeds.

    Battletag: Noggin#1936 || PSN: Noggin37 || Steam
  • DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    rathma is just broken when provided infinite health globes, which it requires support from other players to acquire

    NogginKlatu
  • KlatuKlatu Registered User regular
    If you buff Trag'Oul too much you invalidate Pesti lance build. Trags is currently the least used set afaik.
    If you buff Inarius, you inadvertantly buff the best GR 120+ RGK (Rift Guardian Killer for those new to the thread) build going at the moment, when it doesn't really need buffs.
    If you buff Pesti, you further invalidate Trags.
    If you buff Rath you solidify the Rat xp Meta.

    Necro is in a weird spot at the moment. In Lord fluffys video about the PTR patch notes he suggests removing blood variant of corpse lance from the game, and removing thorns from Necros/pets. After those 2 changes you could buff Trags and Inarius without destroying other sets or making Inarius RGK mandatory.

    Steam id:Klatu - PS id: Klatu_PA - 3DS FC: 0920-0528-6680
    Noggin
  • themightypuckthemightypuck MontanaRegistered User regular
    I have no problem with D3 letting unexpected combos break the game for a season.

    “Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
    ― Marcus Aurelius

    Path of Exile: themightypuck
    forty
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Jokes on him!

    I already have zero thorns!

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
  • KlatuKlatu Registered User regular
    I have no problem with D3 letting unexpected combos break the game for a season.

    You missed season ... 7 or 8 then, where firebirds had a bug that would let people clear 107s - which at the time was 10-15GRs above the average top 5%. It didn't affect me personally, but it destroyed the wiz leaderboards that season and affected the others to a degree as everyone went wizard to push that high for the first time. It wasn't hard to accomplish either as it was based on the set bonus rather than individual pieces, though if you had ancients you were better off as your max dps was better, and you would definitely hit max.

    Steam id:Klatu - PS id: Klatu_PA - 3DS FC: 0920-0528-6680
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Every balance change they make seems simply to be targeted at buffing everyone to match whichever build is topping out the GR charts at the moment. I'm not a big fan of that strategy though, because it seems to disregard "common sense" balancing of the rest of the difficulty levels. GRs are on an expontential curve, so a build being behind by a few GR levels means it needs its DPS to be doubled. But then the earlier progression pacing is out of whack, and Torment difficulties become trivialized again, and they don't seem to care much about that. Torment 7 wasn't even needed until patch 2.3.0.

  • KlatuKlatu Registered User regular
    LOL someone on /r/pathofexile bought the playdiablo4.com domain and made it redirect to the Path of Exile official website. They received a trademark infringement notice from Blizzard's lawyers. This is where the website redirects now.
    Znf9P28AorhEbVy-_gQ4PY0FhwXZZGaOxKToEVLWXwo.png?width=1024&auto=webp&s=692457c526eb1d1542c099878e9f2af2c4c37f93

    playdiablo4.com

    Steam id:Klatu - PS id: Klatu_PA - 3DS FC: 0920-0528-6680
    KreutzthemightypuckkimefortyHexDexTNTrooperdavidsdurionsdanxSmrtnikBullheadPoketpixieRiokenn
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I will never complain about any change that makes it easier for me to grind for a stash slot in a season.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • WraithvergeWraithverge Registered User regular
    It's weird that no one seems to be having the issue we're having here. It makes our Switch Demon Hunters nearly unplayable unless we stick to grifts because there's only one big drop to deal with. Interesting note: It only happens when we both play our Demon Hunters.

    3DS Friend Code: 4725 7947 2964
    PSN ID: Wraithverge
  • BetsuniBetsuni Insert Disk 4 and Press Any Key to Continue Registered User regular
    I wish I had D3 on the Switch so I could test it out since I usually (always) play a DH.

    OH, only thing I thought of is that for the blood shards. On the PS4 if one person was full of shards the other could steal all of them. Was that the case for yours?

    As for the gear problem, I know that Seasons sucks since you can't "share" your loot drops on consoles. One of the main reasons I stopped doing seasons on the consoles.

    oosik_betsuni.png
    Steam: betsuni7
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    The main reason to do seasons on PC and not console is to carry/drag my season character through his or her journey after yours is all geared up.

    The best card in Hearthstone is your credit card.
  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    Zek wrote: »
    Every balance change they make seems simply to be targeted at buffing everyone to match whichever build is topping out the GR charts at the moment. I'm not a big fan of that strategy though, because it seems to disregard "common sense" balancing of the rest of the difficulty levels. GRs are on an expontential curve, so a build being behind by a few GR levels means it needs its DPS to be doubled. But then the earlier progression pacing is out of whack, and Torment difficulties become trivialized again, and they don't seem to care much about that. Torment 7 wasn't even needed until patch 2.3.0.

    I definitely wouldnt call it "good" balancing but it is decent enough as a long term life support thing where the likely alternative is letting total stagnation set in

    2x39jD4.jpg
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    People hate nerfs so just regularly buffing everything seems like a good plan.

    Switch Friend Code: SW - 5443 - 2358 - 9118 || 3DS Friend Code: 0989 - 1731 - 9504 || NNID: unclesporky
    DrezWraithvergeforty3clipse
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Powering non-optimal builds to match optimal builds is much, much, much better than nerfs. Much better.

    Just like moneysinks are better than deflation for in-game currency, though I think actual deflation and/or currency removal is rare in single player games.

    The Kingdom of Loathing devs had a whole series of posts/writeups on why value-added/content-added balancing is much more preferable to nerfs. And I agree.

    forty3clipse
  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Kotaku has an article about D4 and the overall future of Diablo. I only started reading it, but it's pretty interesting so far:
    https://kotaku.com/the-past-present-and-future-of-diablo-1830593195

    From the intro:
    I’ve spoken to 11 current and former Blizzard employees, all of whom spoke anonymously because they were not authorized to speak to press. They’ve told me about a canceled second expansion for Diablo III, and about Diablo IV, which is indeed in development but was rebooted in 2016.
    (If you're unsure of whether you can trust this kind of article or not, I would say that if there's one games journo you can trust to dig out information that a company isn't making public, it's Jason Schreier. Not that everything he digs up is 100% accurate and reflective of the company/game, more that it's as close to truth as you can get without being an executive at the company in question.)

  • DonnictonDonnicton Registered User regular
    Those who remained on Team 3 began talking about what Diablo IV might look like. Josh Mosqueira, the Canadian transplant who had started on the Diablo III console team before taking the franchise’s reins as director of Reaper of Souls, would lead development on the new project, which was code-named Hades. The goal was to take the franchise in a very different direction.

    Mosqueira and team designed Hades as a Diablo take on Dark Souls, according to three people familiar with the project. It would be a gothic, challenging dungeon crawler. Rather than maintain the isometric camera angle of the first three Diablo games, it would use an over-the-shoulder, third-person perspective. It was such a departure from previous games, some at Blizzard thought they might not even end up calling it Diablo IV. From 2014 until 2016, it was Team 3’s main project, developed alongside a handful of patches and light content updates for Diablo III. Then, like Diablo III’s second expansion before it, Hades was canceled.

    ...

    For example, developers told me, quite a few people at Blizzard play Pokémon Go, the massively popular mobile game that lets you use your phone’s camera to catch wild creatures. As one developer explained, the iconic orc statue in the center of Blizzard’s campus is a Pokéstop, and staff wage war over who gets to control the landmark on a daily basis.

    The natural extension of that was for one of Blizzard’s incubation teams to develop a Warcraft version of Pokémon Go, which is in development for smartphones now. Surely it occurred to the decision-makers at Blizzard that this Warcraft spinoff could be a massive revenue generator, but the game is also in production because lead designer Cory Stockton (formerly of World of Warcraft) is a huge fan of Pokémon. (People who have played the Warcraft mobile game say it’s also got a lot more to it than Pokémon Go, including single-player mechanics.)


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  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Delduwath wrote: »
    (If you're unsure of whether you can trust this kind of article or not, I would say that if there's one games journo you can trust to dig out information that a company isn't making public, it's Jason Schreier. Not that everything he digs up is 100% accurate and reflective of the company/game, more that it's as close to truth as you can get without being an executive at the company in question.)

    He was the one who wrote an article about how Diablo 4 was going to be at Blizzcon and then wasn't at the last minute and the company had to make him retract it though.

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  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Delduwath wrote: »
    (If you're unsure of whether you can trust this kind of article or not, I would say that if there's one games journo you can trust to dig out information that a company isn't making public, it's Jason Schreier. Not that everything he digs up is 100% accurate and reflective of the company/game, more that it's as close to truth as you can get without being an executive at the company in question.)

    He was the one who wrote an article about how Diablo 4 was going to be at Blizzcon and then wasn't at the last minute and the company had to make him retract it though.
    Yup. The article in question:
    https://kotaku.com/sources-blizzard-pulled-diablo-4-announcement-from-bli-1830232246
    Jason said that his sources indicated that a video about D4 was made, and was going to be shown at BlizzCon. Blizzard then said "We were not going to show a D4 video at BlizzCon", and Jason updated his article with their response. I suspect that people can interpret this as making Jason more credible or less credible, depending on their personal lens. To me, this just seems like responsible reporting.

    Here's him addressing that issue in this article:
    Earlier this month, I reported that Blizzard had made a video for BlizzCon in which co-founder Allen Adham talked about Diablo IV. Blizzard later disputed that the video had been made for BlizzCon. In conversations since then, two sources told me that regardless of the company’s statement, there had been plans throughout 2018 to announce the game this year. “In January, they were still full set on, ‘We’re going to do this right, we’re going to have a playable demo,’” said one. “By the time we’d hit May, that game wasn’t far enough along. It’s normal problems. Things going slower than they’d like.” By the summer, that person said, they were still under the impression that a tease was happening. “I think it’s semantics… If they changed their mind at any point, they can say, ‘Oh, it wasn’t scheduled.’ At least what we were told as a development team, it was supposed to get teased, that was always the intention.”

    On the flip side, a current developer in a non-Diablo department who was involved in BlizzCon planning told me that to their knowledge, there was no Diablo IV announcement ever planned for the show.
    This is the kind of thing that I meant when I said "it's as close to truth as you can get without being an executive at the company in question". Maybe that's weasel-language that can be used to excuse any and all mistakes on his part. On the other hand, even the most ardent critic has to agree: unless he is literally sneaking into their offices at night and downloading emails to a thumbstick/rifling through shredded documents, he will not be able to report on Things As They Are. At best, he can report on the Things He Is Told by people who only know a part of the full story (and who are fallible themselves). Two separate sources told him "Yes, they were gonna show a video", and this is what he reported.

    Based on my experience of games journalism, Jason seems to have the widest network of contacts, and/or is the journalist people are most willing to talk to. He routinely produces stuff about the inner workings of companies that few other reporters manage, and his reports tend to end up being accurate more often than most people's. My impression is that he is trustworthy.

    SnicketysnickDonnicton
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Although I think they really botched the PR with Immortal, there isn't that much in that article that really worries me. Even former employees are fairly optimistic about D4 now. I think ditching a second expansion in favor of D4 made sense. I just wish they hadn't wasted two years on "Diablo Dark Souls" - as much as I'd like to play that game, there are lots of studios making games like that, and hardly anybody making Diablo-style isometric ARPGs. So I'd rather Diablo remained as the flagship game of that genre. And the design concepts I'm hearing from them aligned with what I wanted - rethink it from scratch with a more grounded design and light MMO features. I like the gist of what Immortal seems to be doing there, where you have a shared open world and you can match with people in-game as you enter a dungeon.

    Zek on
  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    I dunno. I’m playing Diablo 3 on the Switch right now wondering why they should even bother with a Diablo 4.

    I mean, Diablo 3 is a refinement of Diablo 2 which was a refinement of Diablo. And at this point, it’s pretty damn well refined. If the narrative weren’t vomitously bad, I would be hungry for a continuation. But since the series essentially just offers engaging gameplay, how much more can they refine the formula?

    A genre shift would have made sense - i.e. Dark Souls of Diablo - but I’m not sure how much more they can do with this point-n-clicky formula, even within a generous margin of alteration.

    Note: None of the above is a criticism of Diablo 3 (except the bit about the narrative). But it sounds like Bethesda, once again, flirted with the idea of an experimental genre shift that could have been interesting and then wimped our. I think Diablo 4 would need to be significantly different from a gameplay perspective for me to be interested. The series does nothing for me narratively anymore. But it sounds like they don’t want to go in a different direction.

    I think a Diablo Souls would have been something else. Something really good. And they could have focused on the narrative, which has a lot of promise but just sucks.

    Wraithverge
  • fortyforty Registered User regular
    I don't feel like I need a Diablo Dark Souls. If I want that experience, I'll just play Dark Souls or the other Souls-likes.
    Drez wrote: »
    Note: None of the above is a criticism of Diablo 3 (except the bit about the narrative). But it sounds like Bethesda, once again, flirted with the idea of an experimental genre shift that could have been interesting and then wimped our.
    Wrong "B" company!

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  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    I'd play a diablo dark souls, I wouldn't really like it if that killed the ARPG diablo series in the way that world of warcraft killed the RTS warcraft series, but I'd still be up for an action game spinoff in that vein.

    BahamutZERO on
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  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    They said in the article that the Diablo Dark Souls prototype turned out to be so different from other Diablo games that they were thinking of giving it a different name.

    I am 100% in favor of spin-offs and experimental games in a series, but I also prefer that the main series not stray too much from what made it a hit to begin with. Like, I think Fallout 76 is an awesome experiment (which may or may not end up succeeding, whatever) and I'm glad it got made, even if I am not aflame with desire to play it - but if subsequent Fallouts just became multiplayer survivathons, I'd be bummed.

  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    forty wrote: »
    I don't feel like I need a Diablo Dark Souls. If I want that experience, I'll just play Dark Souls or the other Souls-likes.
    Drez wrote: »
    Note: None of the above is a criticism of Diablo 3 (except the bit about the narrative). But it sounds like Bethesda, once again, flirted with the idea of an experimental genre shift that could have been interesting and then wimped our.
    Wrong "B" company!

    Haha whoops I can’t believe I did that.

    I meant to say Bungie.

    DonnictonfortyLorek3clipse
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    I don't feel like I need a Diablo Dark Souls. If I want that experience, I'll just play Dark Souls or the other Souls-likes.
    Drez wrote: »
    Note: None of the above is a criticism of Diablo 3 (except the bit about the narrative). But it sounds like Bethesda, once again, flirted with the idea of an experimental genre shift that could have been interesting and then wimped our.
    Wrong "B" company!

    Haha whoops I can’t believe I did that.

    I meant to say Bungie.

    Surely you meant Bioware??

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  • DrezDrez Registered User regular
    Drez wrote: »
    forty wrote: »
    I don't feel like I need a Diablo Dark Souls. If I want that experience, I'll just play Dark Souls or the other Souls-likes.
    Drez wrote: »
    Note: None of the above is a criticism of Diablo 3 (except the bit about the narrative). But it sounds like Bethesda, once again, flirted with the idea of an experimental genre shift that could have been interesting and then wimped our.
    Wrong "B" company!

    Haha whoops I can’t believe I did that.

    I meant to say Bungie.

    Surely you meant Bioware??

    I think it's my phone. Keeps autocorrecting Bohemia Interactive to Bohemia Interactive.

    DelduwathKreutzdavidsdurionsTamerBill
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    I didn't know Broderbund made diablo

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    Delduwath
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    I didn't know Broderbund made diablo

    Black Isle Studios worked on the Switch port.

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  • rahkeesh2000rahkeesh2000 Registered User regular
    edited November 2018
    Drez wrote: »
    I mean, Diablo 3 is a refinement of Diablo 2 which was a refinement of Diablo. And at this point, it’s pretty damn well refined. If the narrative weren’t vomitously bad, I would be hungry for a continuation. But since the series essentially just offers engaging gameplay, how much more can they refine the formula?

    The oh-so-obvious direction is the MMO lite, which Immortal and Torchlight Frontiers are already doing. Less instancing and more connecting people in an open world. More challenges that encourage grouping, smarter boss mechanics often seen in raids, etc. Probably some tighter balancing to enable that. Rolling content updates supported by some kind of ongoing revenue. This was supposedly the *original* plan for Diablo 3, back when it was a Blizzard North project!

    With Blizzard games increasingly shifting to microtransaction services, that direction seems inevitable. Hades on the other hand might've been a difficult sell because none of the games in that genre to my knowledge have extensive microtransactions. Also any whiff of pay to win would just completely ruin a game style all about challenging yourself and/or killing other players.

    rahkeesh2000 on
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    Donnicton wrote: »
    Those who remained on Team 3 began talking about what Diablo IV might look like. Josh Mosqueira, the Canadian transplant who had started on the Diablo III console team before taking the franchise’s reins as director of Reaper of Souls, would lead development on the new project, which was code-named Hades. The goal was to take the franchise in a very different direction.

    Mosqueira and team designed Hades as a Diablo take on Dark Souls, according to three people familiar with the project. It would be a gothic, challenging dungeon crawler. Rather than maintain the isometric camera angle of the first three Diablo games, it would use an over-the-shoulder, third-person perspective. It was such a departure from previous games, some at Blizzard thought they might not even end up calling it Diablo IV. From 2014 until 2016, it was Team 3’s main project, developed alongside a handful of patches and light content updates for Diablo III. Then, like Diablo III’s second expansion before it, Hades was canceled.

    ...

    For example, developers told me, quite a few people at Blizzard play Pokémon Go, the massively popular mobile game that lets you use your phone’s camera to catch wild creatures. As one developer explained, the iconic orc statue in the center of Blizzard’s campus is a Pokéstop, and staff wage war over who gets to control the landmark on a daily basis.

    The natural extension of that was for one of Blizzard’s incubation teams to develop a Warcraft version of Pokémon Go, which is in development for smartphones now. Surely it occurred to the decision-makers at Blizzard that this Warcraft spinoff could be a massive revenue generator, but the game is also in production because lead designer Cory Stockton (formerly of World of Warcraft) is a huge fan of Pokémon. (People who have played the Warcraft mobile game say it’s also got a lot more to it than Pokémon Go, including single-player mechanics.)


    ffffuuuuuuccccckk yyyyoouuuuuuuu

    Mannnnnn. Diablo: Hades sounds like exactly what I want.

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  • NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    On PTR, apparently legendary potions are now slotted on the bar and removed from inventory.

    Also someone claimed to have found a witching hour with 5 primary stats.

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  • BetsuniBetsuni Insert Disk 4 and Press Any Key to Continue Registered User regular
    Noggin wrote: »
    On PTR, apparently legendary potions are now slotted on the bar and removed from inventory.

    Also someone claimed to have found a witching hour with 5 primary stats.

    Ooh no more accidentally destroying mine.

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    fortyBullheadE.Coyote
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