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Red Thread Redemption

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Posts

  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Lanz wrote: »
    I mean by chapter four, if memory serves
    You should have already had to have rescued him from the sheriff's office in Strawberry, at which point instead of getting away before chaos happens, he drags you into a shootout with a body count in the dozens all so he could steal his stupid fucking guns back.

    Also all the shit he tries to pull with Abigail in Camp.

    And the shit he pulls with Charles, that gets him laid out for being a stupid fucking jackass.

    I did this part already. But everyone is saying like "Awww man, I never wanted to
    rescue Micah
    " So they couldn't have been holding that against him already.

    I haven't seen the shit with Abigail or Charles.

    I think he's a douchebag, but he does seem to be a pretty ride or die homie. I like the part near the end of chapter 3 where
    We are killing like every motherfucker in Rhodes and he is like. "We can that these fuckers! It's you and me Morgan! We can kill anyone". And I had to be kind like "well, yeah, we kind of can. Props dog."

    However, I suppose that
    He may have sold me out to the O' Driscolls
    .

    If that pans out I think I will be happy with a dead Micah.

    burbo on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    One of Micah's earliest moments (that you've probably forgotten because all the characters blend into one in the prologue) is using racial slurs to refer to Lenny & Charles and sucker punching Bill.

    Micah sucks. It's to my intense regret that we never get to see Bill run through him like a fucking freight train.

    ShortyKanaDouglasDangerStrikorStiltsQanamilnever die
  • ShortyShorty touching the meat Intergalactic Cool CourtRegistered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    One of Micah's earliest moments (that you've probably forgotten because all the characters blend into one in the prologue) is using racial slurs to refer to Lenny & Charles and sucker punching Bill.

    Micah sucks. It's to my intense regret that we never get to see Bill run through him like a fucking freight train.

    yeah it would have made Bill a much better character if they had had him completely destroy Micah in a fistfight

    like it's not even a real fight, micah shoots his mouth off and bill straight picks him up and drops him on his head

  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    I can never get mad at the people who set up dumb jobs that result in a big fight because it's always just like, "so what?" Arthur is so deadly he never really seems in danger, and it's not like he has any real problems with doing some extra killing either. He's just like "You dumb bastard! You just made me get into a fight 1/5 as dangerous as the random bounty hunter ambushes I run into twice a day!"

  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I do wonder though between RDR 2 and RDR 1 Bill has shrunk as a person, is this supposed to be a retcon, or have the years away from the van der lind gang supposed to have been so lean he kind of scrawnys out? I can see either one being correct.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    I have a certain amount of fondness for Bill Williamson in RDR2

    ShortyJoolandernever dieBrovid Hasselsmof
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I liked Javier early on too. But to be fair in RDR 1 Javier is just a name and then he shows up briefly. Bill legitimately tries to kill you.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
    Joolander
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    Bill is too stupid and simple to really hate, like if Bill had gotten hooked up with a decent dude instead of Dutch he would be fine

    KanaShortyDouglasDangerJoolanderStrikorStiltsPhillisherenever die
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    To be fair, from Bill's perspective John is a rotten sumbitch who turned his back on his family. John has Abigail and Jack. Who does Marion William Williamson have in his life besides the gang?

    ShortyDouglasDangerButters
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    Shorty wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    One of Micah's earliest moments (that you've probably forgotten because all the characters blend into one in the prologue) is using racial slurs to refer to Lenny & Charles and sucker punching Bill.

    Micah sucks. It's to my intense regret that we never get to see Bill run through him like a fucking freight train.

    yeah it would have made Bill a much better character if they had had him completely destroy Micah in a fistfight

    like it's not even a real fight, micah shoots his mouth off and bill straight picks him up and drops him on his head

    The game is pretty committed to not giving you the catharsis you want from say, Bill kicking the shit out of Micah. It makes sense, because while all indications are that Bill is so big that punching Micah would cause Micah to straight up die, Micah is also exactly the kind of guy who picks a fight with a giant dude as long as there are people there ready to hold said giant dude back.
    Preacher wrote: »
    I do wonder though between RDR 2 and RDR 1 Bill has shrunk as a person, is this supposed to be a retcon, or have the years away from the van der lind gang supposed to have been so lean he kind of scrawnys out? I can see either one being correct.

    I think it's just that he's getting older and less active, and subsequently losing muscle mass. All three of the returning characters in RDR have gone to seed, it's even more jarring with Javier.

    Preacher
  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    burbo wrote: »
    I can never get mad at the people who set up dumb jobs that result in a big fight because it's always just like, "so what?" Arthur is so deadly he never really seems in danger, and it's not like he has any real problems with doing some extra killing either. He's just like "You dumb bastard! You just made me get into a fight 1/5 as dangerous as the random bounty hunter ambushes I run into twice a day!"

    Just out of curiousity like... what kind of Arthur you playing here, honor-wise?


    But also there is the fact that even just from a goddamn logistics of being a gang hunted by the goddamn Pinkerton Detective Agency, this is a man whose preferred course of action is to set off the biggest goddamn explosion he can, fight his way out and then book it back to camp.


    There is no world in which Micah Bell isn't a liability that gets everyone goddamn dead in the end.

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
    Stilts
  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    To put it in Expanse terms, Micah Bell messes with the Agua.

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
    Weaver
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    Arthur is pretty consistent in wanting things to be kept relatively quiet and avoid unnecessary shootouts/risk/death. Even though you tend to win those shoot outs in game terms, there are almost always ramifications in the plot, and the gang is reeling from the Blackwater job in which they lost what, four people? Five?

    PreacherKanaShortyDouglasDangerStrikorStilts
  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Knob wrote: »
    I have a certain amount of fondness for Bill Williamson in RDR2

    I remember nothing about Bill from the first game, but like, the events of two make it very clear Bill's big problem is he does very little of his own thinking and basically follows whatever the person he trusts tells him is for the best.

    So if Bill is following someone with a half a brain and a somewhat good heart? Bill's good.

    If Bill is following someone whose ear is occupied by the whispers of goddamn Micah Bell....

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
    Kana
  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    I think the prowess of Arthur has to be scaled back in ones suspension of disbelief because he is a fucking combat monster, like who the fuck would pursue a bounty on this man, the last crew of like eight bounty hunters all got obliterated and it wasn't even like a close thing they caught Arthur Morgan totally flat footed in the middle of the street and he shot them all in the fuckin mouth in a split second

    Strikor
  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    Lanz wrote: »
    burbo wrote: »
    I can never get mad at the people who set up dumb jobs that result in a big fight because it's always just like, "so what?" Arthur is so deadly he never really seems in danger, and it's not like he has any real problems with doing some extra killing either. He's just like "You dumb bastard! You just made me get into a fight 1/5 as dangerous as the random bounty hunter ambushes I run into twice a day!"

    Just out of curiousity like... what kind of Arthur you playing here, honor-wise?


    But also there is the fact that even just from a goddamn logistics of being a gang hunted by the goddamn Pinkerton Detective Agency, this is a man whose preferred course of action is to set off the biggest goddamn explosion he can, fight his way out and then book it back to camp.


    There is no world in which Micah Bell isn't a liability that gets everyone goddamn dead in the end.

    My Arthur is a completely awful piece of shit by any actual ethical standard, but by the standards of the game, is more or less max honor. I try not to do any extra killing, because it makes me feel bad. For Arthur and the world he inhabits though, he's a great fella who may murder folks multiple times a day, but he also says howdy in a real friendly manner so that more than balances the scales!

    StrikorMuddy Water
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    Tube wrote: »
    Arthur is pretty consistent in wanting things to be kept relatively quiet and avoid unnecessary shootouts/risk/death. Even though you tend to win those shoot outs in game terms, there are almost always ramifications in the plot, and the gang is reeling from the Blackwater job in which they lost what, four people? Five?

    This is exactly it. It isn't so much that Arthur is worried about danger. He's extremely concerned about Noise.

    ShortyJoolander
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Well there is of course the story versus what you the player can do. But story Arthur clearly does not think all these shoot outs are a good thing for the longevity of the gang regardless of his ability to win them.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
    Joolander
  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Arthur and Dutch may be the only two people with a vague conception of operations security in that whole goddamn gang.

    Dutch seems to be the only one who realizes the idea of "Use a goddamn alias when addressing each other in the middle of your goddamn robbery."

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
    JoolanderStrikor
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    There are also situations in the plot where the only reason that someone else dies instead of Arthur is simply dumb luck such as (big spoilers)
    Sean & Lenny. ESPECIALLY Sean. Arthur is only alive because a sniper chose a different opening target.

    PreacherDouglasDangerJoolanderStrikorStilts
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    Hosea is actually wildly competent. It isn't much explored, but I get a real feeling that the reason the gang succeeded was a blend of Dutch's vision and boldness tempered by Hosea's wits and reason. By the Blackwater job Hosea is old and sick, and his influence is waning.

    PreacherMysstDouglasDangerShortyJoolanderKanaCelloStrikorStiltsButters
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Knob wrote: »
    Hosea is actually wildly competent. It isn't much explored, but I get a real feeling that the reason the gang succeeded was a blend of Dutch's vision and boldness tempered by Hosea's wits and reason. By the Blackwater job Hosea is old and sick, and his influence is waning.

    Yeah Hosea and Dutch are arthur's two "dads" as it were. And Hosea is definitely the moderating thoughtful planner.

    Like we see Dutch's plan in RDR 1 for robbing the blackwater bank and its an ugly shootout on a clearly staked out target.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
    Kana
  • burboburbo Registered User regular
    Yeah, I think that the rest of the game is so immersive and there are so many details to draw you in that the murder dissonance of this game is worst than most. It's just hard to get past the idea that the Arthur in cutscenes and missions is so different than the one in the rest of the game, esp. since they did such a good job of interweaving the character stuff into the free roam.

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    By RDR Dutch isn't even trying to get away with things, he's just creating chaos and killing people for the sake of killing them.

    One thing they state really early is that everyone told Dutch that Blackwater was a bad job and he didn't listen. He's clearly pretty resentful of this, with "you and Hosea can sit together and talk about where it's all gone wrong with old Dutch" and shit like that.

    ShortyJoolanderKanaStrikorStilts
  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Knob wrote: »
    Hosea is actually wildly competent. It isn't much explored, but I get a real feeling that the reason the gang succeeded was a blend of Dutch's vision and boldness tempered by Hosea's wits and reason. By the Blackwater job Hosea is old and sick, and his influence is waning.

    Wasn't Hosea not present for the Blackwater Job as well? Like it's Arthur, Hosea and someone else who are out and about while Dutch and some of the others run the job.

    Lanz on
    waNkm4k.jpg?1
  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Well there is of course the story versus what you the player can do. But story Arthur clearly does not think all these shoot outs are a good thing for the longevity of the gang regardless of his ability to win them.

    This is because Arthur has at least two functional brain cells and understands what it means when you are literally being hunted by the 19th century equivalent of a PMC

    waNkm4k.jpg?1
    PreacherStrikor
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    Once you have the context and know the characters, the first several hours of the game have a ton more impact. I didn't really have a good sense of how completely sideways the Blackwater job was on my first playthrough. Second time, though...jesus christ! Fucking everyone died! Dutch killed a girl!

    DouglasDangerKanaPreacher
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    Lanz wrote: »
    Knob wrote: »
    Hosea is actually wildly competent. It isn't much explored, but I get a real feeling that the reason the gang succeeded was a blend of Dutch's vision and boldness tempered by Hosea's wits and reason. By the Blackwater job Hosea is old and sick, and his influence is waning.

    Wasn't Hosea not present for the Blackwater Job as well? Like it's Arthur, Hosea and someone else who are out and about while Dutch and some of the others run the job.

    Arther and Hosea were off running a scam instead of participating in the ferry raid, but I'm more speaking of general gang politics. I get a strong feeling that there was a time when Hosea would say, 'Dutch, this is a terrible idea' and it would carry weight. By the beginning of the game, that time has passed.

    JoolanderKanaPreacherStrikorStilts
  • CelloCello Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Here's some stuff I noticed, playing the game again (full game spoilers):
    1. Thomas Downes is all over the start of this fucking game. He's the guy who splits up the big fight in the mud! He's standing in Valentine collecting money for the poor! He's a real great guy!
    2. There is an absolutely absurd number of camp events that I never saw the first time I played, but since this time I'm just doing all the free roam stuff I'm seeing a lot more. Notably:
    • I'm pretty sure Hoseah has TB and is running a similar arc to Arthur. He mentions being ill, makes medicine a lot and occasionally coughs.
    • I'm also pretty sure Hoseah is a reformed racist. He has a lot of dialogue with Lenny where he apologises for "not seeing what a good person he was" in non-specific ways. He even has a sit down with Lenny where he encourages him to leave the gang and become a lawyer, since Lenny is the most literate person in the gang. Lenny seems to be genuinely considering it. Hoseah's "good liberal" speech to Charles about the treatment of the natives also makes sense in this context. He's trying to make amends, and he's awkward at it.
    • There are camp interactions between Abigail and Grimshaw that make it clear that Abigail's role in the gang used to be prostitution, and that the same might still be true of the other women. Abigail yells at Grimshaw and says "she refuses to do that any more"
    • John is a fuckboy at the start of the game. He has repeated camp events where he hits on the other women in the gang, to their utter disgust. It seems performative, like he's trying to reject his role as a husband and father.
    • Uncle is the best member of the gang

      3. There's a real sense of loss when you play the game a second time, and it captures the feeling that one never knows when someone they love will be taken from them. A second time, you know that you're not simply robbing a house with Hoseah, you're spending some of your last moments with him. You know that Lenny, for all his potential, does not become a lawyer. As you start the game, people are complaining about the camp and... this is the best they'll ever have it. The party when Sean is rescued represents one of the last times everyone will be there, together, and happy.
      4. The game gates a lot of stuff in frustrating ways. Schofield Revolvers are locked behind rescuing Micah. New trapper locations seem to be locked behind something arbitrary. I can't proceed with the bandit challenge because the horse fence isn't unlocked until chapter 3. You can't finish the satchels until either chapter 5 (when you go to Guarma) or the epilogue
      5. Arthur's depression is more obvious a second time around. He's mean to everyone all the time, because he's playing a part and keeping everyone at bay. Arthur, Bill and Swanson are all characters who are dealing with depression in different ways.

    Abigail
    I remembered in the first game they mention she'd been a prostitute, and I never got a conversation in 2 where it came up, so I was wondering if they had quietly retconned that
    Guess not!

    Whole game
    Miss Grimshaw is definitely a madam, and the females in the camp are definitely prostitutes, you save Karen from abusive client in Valentine and there are fights and arguments about it at camp too

    I didn't read this scene that way and moreso assumed that it was a con to presumably deck the guy and take him for all he's worth, but I never heard those camp talks

    Disappointing if it turns out the only prominent women who aren't Sadie are all shelved into being sex workers though; it adds another layer of skeeviness to Dutch "saving" them that seems entirely unnecessary

    Cello on
    Steam
    3DS Friend Code: 0216-0898-6512
    Switch Friend Code: SW-7437-1538-7786
  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Man I barely remember anything from RDR 1 despite having played it through like 4 times.

    People keep saying Javier is in it but... I got nothing on that.

    Juggernut on
    valhalla130
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Juggernut wrote: »
    Man I barely remember anything from RDR 1 despite having played it through like 4 times.

    People keep saying Javier is in it but... I got nothing on that.

    He is barely in it, like he's a mentioned name a couple of times and one cutscene. That's it.

    Also they fixed the hideouts online! Or I got lucky and managed to just into 3 of them which seems not likely. And man I turned on wide auto aim like everyone else is using online? Holy shit that's why I lost so many ranged fights.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    pleasepaypreacher.net
  • KnobKnob TURN THE BEAT BACK InternetModerator mod
    Javier Esquella's business and doings are 1/3rd of the plot and like half the total playtime of rdr1!

  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    Cello wrote: »
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Here's some stuff I noticed, playing the game again (full game spoilers):
    1. Thomas Downes is all over the start of this fucking game. He's the guy who splits up the big fight in the mud! He's standing in Valentine collecting money for the poor! He's a real great guy!
    2. There is an absolutely absurd number of camp events that I never saw the first time I played, but since this time I'm just doing all the free roam stuff I'm seeing a lot more. Notably:
    • I'm pretty sure Hoseah has TB and is running a similar arc to Arthur. He mentions being ill, makes medicine a lot and occasionally coughs.
    • I'm also pretty sure Hoseah is a reformed racist. He has a lot of dialogue with Lenny where he apologises for "not seeing what a good person he was" in non-specific ways. He even has a sit down with Lenny where he encourages him to leave the gang and become a lawyer, since Lenny is the most literate person in the gang. Lenny seems to be genuinely considering it. Hoseah's "good liberal" speech to Charles about the treatment of the natives also makes sense in this context. He's trying to make amends, and he's awkward at it.
    • There are camp interactions between Abigail and Grimshaw that make it clear that Abigail's role in the gang used to be prostitution, and that the same might still be true of the other women. Abigail yells at Grimshaw and says "she refuses to do that any more"
    • John is a fuckboy at the start of the game. He has repeated camp events where he hits on the other women in the gang, to their utter disgust. It seems performative, like he's trying to reject his role as a husband and father.
    • Uncle is the best member of the gang

      3. There's a real sense of loss when you play the game a second time, and it captures the feeling that one never knows when someone they love will be taken from them. A second time, you know that you're not simply robbing a house with Hoseah, you're spending some of your last moments with him. You know that Lenny, for all his potential, does not become a lawyer. As you start the game, people are complaining about the camp and... this is the best they'll ever have it. The party when Sean is rescued represents one of the last times everyone will be there, together, and happy.
      4. The game gates a lot of stuff in frustrating ways. Schofield Revolvers are locked behind rescuing Micah. New trapper locations seem to be locked behind something arbitrary. I can't proceed with the bandit challenge because the horse fence isn't unlocked until chapter 3. You can't finish the satchels until either chapter 5 (when you go to Guarma) or the epilogue
      5. Arthur's depression is more obvious a second time around. He's mean to everyone all the time, because he's playing a part and keeping everyone at bay. Arthur, Bill and Swanson are all characters who are dealing with depression in different ways.

    Abigail
    I remembered in the first game they mention she'd been a prostitute, and I never got a conversation in 2 where it came up, so I was wondering if they had quietly retconned that
    Guess not!

    Whole game
    Miss Grimshaw is definitely a madam, and the females in the camp are definitely prostitutes, you save Karen from abusive client in Valentine and there are fights and arguments about it at camp too

    I didn't read this scene that way and moreso assumed that it was a con to presumably deck the guy and take him for all he's worth, but I never heard those camp talks

    Disappointing if it turns out the only prominent women who aren't Sadie are all shelved into being sex workers though; it adds another layer of skeeviness to Dutch "saving" them that seems entirely unnecessary

    It’s explicit that Abigail was at some point and that Grimshaw wants her to be again. That’s about it. Grimshaw refers to herself as a madam, but my impression is that the other women are doing camp work rather than being sex workers.

    My interpretation of that scene is that Karen was grifting, not working as a prostitute.

    knitdanKana
  • ED!ED! Registered User regular
    Someone at Rockstar really doesn't like them some gun dealers.

    . . . also in terms of gameplay and having a story and actions worth a damn, this is easily their best game yet. I was all for the mania that was Trevor and the absurdity of GTAV, but it's great having an open would game that actually treats itself seriously (and that includes the organically comedic bits).

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • CelloCello Registered User regular
    edited December 2018
    Tube wrote: »
    Cello wrote: »
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Here's some stuff I noticed, playing the game again (full game spoilers):
    1. Thomas Downes is all over the start of this fucking game. He's the guy who splits up the big fight in the mud! He's standing in Valentine collecting money for the poor! He's a real great guy!
    2. There is an absolutely absurd number of camp events that I never saw the first time I played, but since this time I'm just doing all the free roam stuff I'm seeing a lot more. Notably:
    • I'm pretty sure Hoseah has TB and is running a similar arc to Arthur. He mentions being ill, makes medicine a lot and occasionally coughs.
    • I'm also pretty sure Hoseah is a reformed racist. He has a lot of dialogue with Lenny where he apologises for "not seeing what a good person he was" in non-specific ways. He even has a sit down with Lenny where he encourages him to leave the gang and become a lawyer, since Lenny is the most literate person in the gang. Lenny seems to be genuinely considering it. Hoseah's "good liberal" speech to Charles about the treatment of the natives also makes sense in this context. He's trying to make amends, and he's awkward at it.
    • There are camp interactions between Abigail and Grimshaw that make it clear that Abigail's role in the gang used to be prostitution, and that the same might still be true of the other women. Abigail yells at Grimshaw and says "she refuses to do that any more"
    • John is a fuckboy at the start of the game. He has repeated camp events where he hits on the other women in the gang, to their utter disgust. It seems performative, like he's trying to reject his role as a husband and father.
    • Uncle is the best member of the gang

      3. There's a real sense of loss when you play the game a second time, and it captures the feeling that one never knows when someone they love will be taken from them. A second time, you know that you're not simply robbing a house with Hoseah, you're spending some of your last moments with him. You know that Lenny, for all his potential, does not become a lawyer. As you start the game, people are complaining about the camp and... this is the best they'll ever have it. The party when Sean is rescued represents one of the last times everyone will be there, together, and happy.
      4. The game gates a lot of stuff in frustrating ways. Schofield Revolvers are locked behind rescuing Micah. New trapper locations seem to be locked behind something arbitrary. I can't proceed with the bandit challenge because the horse fence isn't unlocked until chapter 3. You can't finish the satchels until either chapter 5 (when you go to Guarma) or the epilogue
      5. Arthur's depression is more obvious a second time around. He's mean to everyone all the time, because he's playing a part and keeping everyone at bay. Arthur, Bill and Swanson are all characters who are dealing with depression in different ways.

    Abigail
    I remembered in the first game they mention she'd been a prostitute, and I never got a conversation in 2 where it came up, so I was wondering if they had quietly retconned that
    Guess not!

    Whole game
    Miss Grimshaw is definitely a madam, and the females in the camp are definitely prostitutes, you save Karen from abusive client in Valentine and there are fights and arguments about it at camp too

    I didn't read this scene that way and moreso assumed that it was a con to presumably deck the guy and take him for all he's worth, but I never heard those camp talks

    Disappointing if it turns out the only prominent women who aren't Sadie are all shelved into being sex workers though; it adds another layer of skeeviness to Dutch "saving" them that seems entirely unnecessary

    It’s explicit that Abigail was at some point and that Grimshaw wants her to be again. That’s about it. Grimshaw refers to herself as a madam, but my impression is that the other women are doing camp work rather than being sex workers.

    My interpretation of that scene is that Karen was grifting, not working as a prostitute.

    Okay, yeah, that was my interpretation too (for both Abigail and the others). Glad to see it holds up.

    Cello on
    Steam
    3DS Friend Code: 0216-0898-6512
    Switch Friend Code: SW-7437-1538-7786
  • knitdanknitdan In ur base Killin ur guysRegistered User regular
    One of the things that has always stuck with me from RDR1 was Bill throwing Abigail’s alleged past in John’s face. I don’t even remember where it was in the game or what the exact context was, but he basically says “everybody in the gang screwed her, you married a whore!” And I always felt like that was Bill trying to play on insecurities that he assumed John must have, but John didn’t for whatever reason.

    If I go back and play again I’ll definitely pay more attention to camp stuff, because this time around I pretty much only used camp to check in, turn in pelts and meat, and sleep in my own bed.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
  • LanzLanz ...Za?Registered User regular
    Cello wrote: »
    Grey Ghost wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    Here's some stuff I noticed, playing the game again (full game spoilers):
    1. Thomas Downes is all over the start of this fucking game. He's the guy who splits up the big fight in the mud! He's standing in Valentine collecting money for the poor! He's a real great guy!
    2. There is an absolutely absurd number of camp events that I never saw the first time I played, but since this time I'm just doing all the free roam stuff I'm seeing a lot more. Notably:
    • I'm pretty sure Hoseah has TB and is running a similar arc to Arthur. He mentions being ill, makes medicine a lot and occasionally coughs.
    • I'm also pretty sure Hoseah is a reformed racist. He has a lot of dialogue with Lenny where he apologises for "not seeing what a good person he was" in non-specific ways. He even has a sit down with Lenny where he encourages him to leave the gang and become a lawyer, since Lenny is the most literate person in the gang. Lenny seems to be genuinely considering it. Hoseah's "good liberal" speech to Charles about the treatment of the natives also makes sense in this context. He's trying to make amends, and he's awkward at it.
    • There are camp interactions between Abigail and Grimshaw that make it clear that Abigail's role in the gang used to be prostitution, and that the same might still be true of the other women. Abigail yells at Grimshaw and says "she refuses to do that any more"
    • John is a fuckboy at the start of the game. He has repeated camp events where he hits on the other women in the gang, to their utter disgust. It seems performative, like he's trying to reject his role as a husband and father.
    • Uncle is the best member of the gang

      3. There's a real sense of loss when you play the game a second time, and it captures the feeling that one never knows when someone they love will be taken from them. A second time, you know that you're not simply robbing a house with Hoseah, you're spending some of your last moments with him. You know that Lenny, for all his potential, does not become a lawyer. As you start the game, people are complaining about the camp and... this is the best they'll ever have it. The party when Sean is rescued represents one of the last times everyone will be there, together, and happy.
      4. The game gates a lot of stuff in frustrating ways. Schofield Revolvers are locked behind rescuing Micah. New trapper locations seem to be locked behind something arbitrary. I can't proceed with the bandit challenge because the horse fence isn't unlocked until chapter 3. You can't finish the satchels until either chapter 5 (when you go to Guarma) or the epilogue
      5. Arthur's depression is more obvious a second time around. He's mean to everyone all the time, because he's playing a part and keeping everyone at bay. Arthur, Bill and Swanson are all characters who are dealing with depression in different ways.

    Abigail
    I remembered in the first game they mention she'd been a prostitute, and I never got a conversation in 2 where it came up, so I was wondering if they had quietly retconned that
    Guess not!

    Whole game
    Miss Grimshaw is definitely a madam, and the females in the camp are definitely prostitutes, you save Karen from abusive client in Valentine and there are fights and arguments about it at camp too

    I didn't read this scene that way and moreso assumed that it was a con to presumably deck the guy and take him for all he's worth, but I never heard those camp talks

    Disappointing if it turns out the only prominent women who aren't Sadie are all shelved into being sex workers though; it adds another layer of skeeviness to Dutch "saving" them that seems entirely unnecessary
    Reading the wiki, I'm not sure where they got it from but apparently part of the reason Grimshaw is there is that she Dutch's ex who stayed with the group, even after he got together with Annabelle.

    Which now that I think of it puts another fucked up angle on her being the one who pulled the trigger on Molly.

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  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    knitdan wrote: »
    One of the things that has always stuck with me from RDR1 was Bill throwing Abigail’s alleged past in John’s face. I don’t even remember where it was in the game or what the exact context was, but he basically says “everybody in the gang screwed her, you married a whore!” And I always felt like that was Bill trying to play on insecurities that he assumed John must have, but John didn’t for whatever reason.

    If I go back and play again I’ll definitely pay more attention to camp stuff, because this time around I pretty much only used camp to check in, turn in pelts and meat, and sleep in my own bed.

    John definitely has those insecurities in the beginning of 2, but gets over them as the game progresses. His whole arc is accepting his role as a husband and father. That’s why he no-sells those insults in the first game, and why both Bill & Javier thought they’d work.

    StrikorknitdanJoolanderShorty
  • StrikorStrikor Calibrations? Calibrations! Registered User regular
    Plus, Bill is an idiot.

    ShortyPreacher
  • PinfeldorfPinfeldorf Yeah ZestRegistered User regular
    So today's conent update scuttled my last 30 hours or so of story mode. Fucking why would they do that? Ir out me back at the beginning of chapter two after i was already past the big party in chapter 3. No saves past 44%. Fucking why and how?

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