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RDR 2 online direly needs some tweeks to pvp. Like players shouldn't just be visible on your radar. There should be some kind of cool down on someone getting killed and being able to respawn, and cities need some kind of protection/quest givers.
I'm hoping the beta part is to work out this kind of stuff or it won't be long for this world.
People being visible on your radar is consistent with GTA Online, and IMO it helps direct you to where the people are if you want to interact.
It definitely also helps to join a posse. Less chance of being griefed when you're surrounded by up to 7 people.
I recall the early days of GTAO where it was swarms of twitch streamers trying to grief pubs for channel views. Sabatoging missions for channels views. Being giant assholes to try to get youtube subs.
I thought there was supposed to be a passive mode where you couldn't get constantly murdered in online?
There is not. You can set up your own camp, where you can change outfits, swap horses, etc. And you have the option to deactivate combat in that area, but outside of that, it’s a free-for-all. The intent seems to be, as many people have suggested already, that you feel obligated to create a posse for more protection in free roam, which I don’t see any use to when 1. Half the server actively wants to just run around and shoot each other and 2. There’s an apparent lack of any cool down, penalty, or disincentive to just continuously walk up to the same person and shoot them over and over.
Apparently there is some sort of “parlay” function where you can open a communications channel to a person after they have killed you four or five times in a row so you can, I guess, politely asked them to stop doing it... Which, again, seems almost more like rockstar insulting you then actually trying to help.
The Parley sets a ten minute timer where the two of you can't shoot each other
I'm not aware if the voice chat part is mandatory or if that only applies if you've got world chat turned on
Another annoying thing. I set up my camp closer to me as I didn't want to back track across the entire map and it kept shifting location before I got there. I had to keep resetting it and it costs 2 dollars a time which is a lot in game.
The Parley sets a ten minute timer where the two of you can't shoot each other
I'm not aware if the voice chat part is mandatory or if that only applies if you've got world chat turned on
Giving me the option of interacting with a person for whom my specific problem was they didn’t leave me alone in the first place feels, again, like the literal opposite of a solution.
Look I’m not gonna keep nitpicking at it, clearly I’m Getting Mad at Video Games and being upset a game company didn’t make a thing the way I wanted is fruitless, but, man, just seems like a wasted opportunity when other open world and MMORPG studios are specifically putting in passive modes, historical modes, things for people who want to try a little non violent interaction and such. I have had so many friends say how all they wanted to do in RDO was gamble or hunt/fish or just wander around while chatting with folks online and “can I set it so people can’t walk up to me and shoot me in the head when I do this?” Is a question I hear so frequently that it’s kind of heartbreaking to have to say no.
Oh I wasn’t calling you out, I was calling myself out with that, I just mean I know I’ve made like four comments about Online is Bad so I’m going to stop now
RDR 2 online direly needs some tweeks to pvp. Like players shouldn't just be visible on your radar. There should be some kind of cool down on someone getting killed and being able to respawn, and cities need some kind of protection/quest givers.
I'm hoping the beta part is to work out this kind of stuff or it won't be long for this world.
People being visible on your radar is consistent with GTA Online, and IMO it helps direct you to where the people are if you want to interact.
It definitely also helps to join a posse. Less chance of being griefed when you're surrounded by up to 7 people.
I could see that, but it also lets people find you when you're just out in the wild exploring and kill you from a distance, which is the opposite of fun.
Also game wide voice chat is an abomination.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I'm going to reset my online character and start over. I've decided I don't like too many things about how I customized him. And it's not like I've lost a ton of progress.
I actually like my jay leno chinned pippy long stockings lady. She looks like a murfee that is trying to do good.
Mostly I just spend time trapping and harvesting herbs, taking down gang hide outs as they show up.
I did chuckle I worked up to buy the varmint rifle and proceeded to miss every god damn shot on varmints...
Also pro tip if your horse "de spawns" with hides on its back they go away, so if you are trapping for hides to sell make sure to keep your horse near you.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I would say that the Red Dead games, through Micah, Mr Milton and Edgar Ross are very good at making villains that you fucking despise, but not necessarily ones that are very deep. I fucking hate Micah, he's very well characterised but he's not very deep. Edgar Ross is such a disgusting piece of shit that when he first showed up in RDR 2, a decade or so after I played the original, I reflexively yelled "fuck you!" at the screen, but we can't imagine much about his inner life. I think the reason for this is that the villain in both games (prepare for mind-blowing hot take) is really Dutch. Micah is an antagonist, a simple low grade shithead who had his thumb in the wound at the right time. Ross is a physical manifestation of the crimes committed in the name of the oncoming rush of civilization. Dutch, on the other hand, is the progenitor of all the evil done by the gang. Whether he's on screen or not (and for most of Red Dead Redemption, he isn't), he's the one who moulded John and Arthur into child soldiers for his own enrichment, who fostered the cult like attitude of the Van Der Lind gang.
As his cult slipped away, he's the one whose ego leads all of those around him to destruction. Even Bill & Javier still bear the indelible psychological scars left by Dutch, even towards the end Bill can't fathom why Arthur would question him. Even Micah is, when it comes to Dutch, essentially on the level. He loves Dutch! That much is clear! His hatred of Arthur isn't based on who Arthur is, it's on the fact that he's the favourite, that Dutch loves him more than he loves Micah.
At the root of the key theme of redemption in both games is the fact that without Dutch, many of the things that John & Arthur seek to be redeemed for would never have happened.
Last evening I went back to Strawberry to make amends for the terrible things I had done there but I had been drinking cocktails last evening and one thing lead to another and I ended up brutally murdering the mayor of Strawberry with an axe in front of a large crowd of people
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Last evening I went back to Strawberry to make amends for the terrible things I had done there but I had been drinking cocktails last evening and one thing lead to another and I ended up brutally murdering the mayor of Strawberry with an axe in front of a large crowd of people
There are a couple of full game Micah-based plotholes that might not even be plotholes:
Micah is the rat. He flipped (if Milton is telling the truth, and there's no narrative reason why he'd lie to someone he's about to kill) after Guarma. So... what was the material effect of him flipping? He tells them where the camp is (which is blamed on Bill) but then there are no real There Are A Rat In The Camp red flags in the same sense of say, the disastrous heists of earlier chapters. Those heists were actually disastrous because Dutch's plans are bad, because Dutch is a dunce. What did Micah flipping gain the Pinkertons? How did that manifest? I might be missing something in my memory. This isn't necessarily important (because most plot holes aren't) but it undercuts one of the big plot beats.
Not so much a plothole as questionable character work: we can see, above, numerous examples of Micah mocking a wide variety of people who A. physically outmatch him B. know where he sleeps and C. have extremely limited qualms about murdering people. In similar situations in the real world, I'm pretty certain the Micah Problem would have been resolved by one of them simply murdering him. There are reasons to believe that Arthur wouldn't have done it; what about Charles? What about Sadie? What about Lenny? What about Bill? What about Javier? Hell, what about Grimshaw?
I think this problem comes from them hitting the "Micah is a piece of shit" button too hard at various points, where it goes past the necessary "The Player Hates Micah" and reaches into "Why have none of these killers killed Micah?". I don't really buy that Sadie, in particular, wouldn't have shot him dead without even raising her heart rate.
No, you’re right, and that’s something that’s been bugging me too. The timing is all messed up.
Whole game spoilers
It would have made more sense if he’d given up the bank job, with Hosea being caught and/or killed being a major part of Micah’s plan so he could take over as Dutch’s number 2.
After Guarma, there’s only the Pinkerton raid in the swamps, but how would Micah even know about the swamp hideout when he got grabbed up in town. Arthur finds the hideout first, and then the rest show up later, but then the Pinkerton immediately attack after that.
I suppose he could have tipped off the oil fields about Eagle Flies, but that place is always crawling with guards anyway. And he definitely didn’t tell anybody the bridge would be blown up, or the dynamite stolen.
The biggest evidence is the raid on Beaver Hollow but even that comes after Arthur and Sadie just made a big scene in Van Horn so it’s plausible they were just scouring the countryside and found the camp.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
the game correctly assumes that you aren't going to see all of these scenes. I didn't see any! In the context of seeing one of these (or perhaps just the mandatory cutscene where he slaps Bill), it comes across as "Micah is a shitty bully sometimes, when he can get away with it". In the context of watching them all cued up on Youtube it becomes "Micah is trying to get himself shot".
Is it fun to fuck around in as a palate cleanser? Kinda like going for a sidewalk drive in GTA?
Mostly I felt really compelled to see the story through towards the end even skipped some of the strangers stuff (there was just... so much of it) to get through the big story missions.
Yeah online can be griefer land. Mostly around the first area you show up in from what I've seen. It doesn't really cost you much other than annoyance, but right now the online is basically GTA in the old west with idiots. Though there is a story mode to it that is interesting and at least one Rdr 1 character shows up as a quest giver...
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
There are a couple of full game Micah-based plotholes that might not even be plotholes:
Micah is the rat. He flipped (if Milton is telling the truth, and there's no narrative reason why he'd lie to someone he's about to kill) after Guarma. So... what was the material effect of him flipping? He tells them where the camp is (which is blamed on Bill) but then there are no real There Are A Rat In The Camp red flags in the same sense of say, the disastrous heists of earlier chapters. Those heists were actually disastrous because Dutch's plans are bad, because Dutch is a dunce. What did Micah flipping gain the Pinkertons? How did that manifest? I might be missing something in my memory. This isn't necessarily important (because most plot holes aren't) but it undercuts one of the big plot beats.
Not so much a plothole as questionable character work: we can see, above, numerous examples of Micah mocking a wide variety of people who A. physically outmatch him B. know where he sleeps and C. have extremely limited qualms about murdering people. In similar situations in the real world, I'm pretty certain the Micah Problem would have been resolved by one of them simply murdering him. There are reasons to believe that Arthur wouldn't have done it; what about Charles? What about Sadie? What about Lenny? What about Bill? What about Javier? Hell, what about Grimshaw?
I think this problem comes from them hitting the "Micah is a piece of shit" button too hard at various points, where it goes past the necessary "The Player Hates Micah" and reaches into "Why have none of these killers killed Micah?". I don't really buy that Sadie, in particular, wouldn't have shot him dead without even raising her heart rate.
Micah
I think part of why nobody has killed him is that Dutch wants him around. Dutch is quick to chide Arthur for even expressing dislike of him early on. I assume nobody wanted to face the repercussions of killing him, which would likely be exile from the gang or, later on, maybe having Dutch kill them in return. Everyone is generally way too slow on the uptake regarding when to stop going along with Dutch's way
There are a couple of full game Micah-based plotholes that might not even be plotholes:
Micah is the rat. He flipped (if Milton is telling the truth, and there's no narrative reason why he'd lie to someone he's about to kill) after Guarma. So... what was the material effect of him flipping? He tells them where the camp is (which is blamed on Bill) but then there are no real There Are A Rat In The Camp red flags in the same sense of say, the disastrous heists of earlier chapters. Those heists were actually disastrous because Dutch's plans are bad, because Dutch is a dunce. What did Micah flipping gain the Pinkertons? How did that manifest? I might be missing something in my memory. This isn't necessarily important (because most plot holes aren't) but it undercuts one of the big plot beats.
Not so much a plothole as questionable character work: we can see, above, numerous examples of Micah mocking a wide variety of people who A. physically outmatch him B. know where he sleeps and C. have extremely limited qualms about murdering people. In similar situations in the real world, I'm pretty certain the Micah Problem would have been resolved by one of them simply murdering him. There are reasons to believe that Arthur wouldn't have done it; what about Charles? What about Sadie? What about Lenny? What about Bill? What about Javier? Hell, what about Grimshaw?
I think this problem comes from them hitting the "Micah is a piece of shit" button too hard at various points, where it goes past the necessary "The Player Hates Micah" and reaches into "Why have none of these killers killed Micah?". I don't really buy that Sadie, in particular, wouldn't have shot him dead without even raising her heart rate.
Micah
I think part of why nobody has killed him is that Dutch wants him around. Dutch is quick to chide Arthur for even expressing dislike of him early on. I assume nobody wanted to face the repercussions of killing him, which would likely be exile from the gang or, later on, maybe having Dutch kill them in return. Everyone is generally way too slow on the uptake regarding when to stop going along with Dutch's way
I think that's definitely a good explanation, but the game should sell that point a little better. Micah is maybe the best gunfighter of the group (as displayed by him being the only person to be able to no-sell dead eye and completely shut down John), but that's not something that the narrative tells us a lot about, we'd need to hear more of this "Micah sucks, but we need him because X & Y". Otherwise it comes across as kind of bizarre that he never meets with an unfortunate accident.
So the griefing is obviously worsening as new people can come into the game. I was in Blackwater and someone just started shooting me for no reason. I managed to kill them then thought I'll go into the bar and chill while I try to find out how to properly quit online to save my progress. While I'm in the menu, someone else comes into the bar, tackles me and instant kills me because I'm not able to get out of the menu in time to press counter. Then I spawn outside the town where someone, I assume part of the posse, headshots me.
There are a couple of full game Micah-based plotholes that might not even be plotholes:
Micah is the rat. He flipped (if Milton is telling the truth, and there's no narrative reason why he'd lie to someone he's about to kill) after Guarma. So... what was the material effect of him flipping? He tells them where the camp is (which is blamed on Bill) but then there are no real There Are A Rat In The Camp red flags in the same sense of say, the disastrous heists of earlier chapters. Those heists were actually disastrous because Dutch's plans are bad, because Dutch is a dunce. What did Micah flipping gain the Pinkertons? How did that manifest? I might be missing something in my memory. This isn't necessarily important (because most plot holes aren't) but it undercuts one of the big plot beats.
Not so much a plothole as questionable character work: we can see, above, numerous examples of Micah mocking a wide variety of people who A. physically outmatch him B. know where he sleeps and C. have extremely limited qualms about murdering people. In similar situations in the real world, I'm pretty certain the Micah Problem would have been resolved by one of them simply murdering him. There are reasons to believe that Arthur wouldn't have done it; what about Charles? What about Sadie? What about Lenny? What about Bill? What about Javier? Hell, what about Grimshaw?
I think this problem comes from them hitting the "Micah is a piece of shit" button too hard at various points, where it goes past the necessary "The Player Hates Micah" and reaches into "Why have none of these killers killed Micah?". I don't really buy that Sadie, in particular, wouldn't have shot him dead without even raising her heart rate.
Micah
I think part of why nobody has killed him is that Dutch wants him around. Dutch is quick to chide Arthur for even expressing dislike of him early on. I assume nobody wanted to face the repercussions of killing him, which would likely be exile from the gang or, later on, maybe having Dutch kill them in return. Everyone is generally way too slow on the uptake regarding when to stop going along with Dutch's way
Yeah, I mean it's important to remember that
full game spoilers
It's not just a gang, it's a family and/or cult. Nobody likes Micah, but Dad/Cult Leader Dutch says he's part of the gang, sooo he's part of the gang. And of course the people who are the most moral and would most object to Micah's bullshit are, well, the most moral, the people least likely to just haul off and murder someone. And we do definitely get the characterization of the gang considering themselves to be following a set of rules. Shooting guards and cops and other criminals - basically those "in the game" to steal a philosophy from The Wire - are fair game, because they know what they're in for. But you generally don't get to shoot random civilians, and you don't attack fellow gang members. Like everyone's a little disturbed by Dutch shooting some girl during the Blackwater job and gossip about it, even though they all shoot people pretty regularly. But there's rules.
Also Micah isn't exactly antagonizing EVERYONE. He's antagonizing the guys who are newer to the gang than he is, thinking they owe him respect as an elder gang member. He's purposefully starting shit because he wants them to put up with it, as a sign of his seniority. Of course, nobody gives a fuck about what he thinks, and early on Micah's definitely not considered a senior man, even if he has been around longer than some of the other guys.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Also Youtube has shown me that Arthur's antagonise options around camp make him pretty much worse than Micah in interpersonal terms. Like Micah never goes up to Jack and tells him he "looks more like a Williamson or an Escuela"
Also Youtube has shown me that Arthur's antagonise options around camp make him pretty much worse than Micah in interpersonal terms. Like Micah never goes up to Jack and tells him he "looks more like a Williamson or an Escuela"
Wow, well at least when you go asshole in RDR 2 you go the full asshole. Like this isn't some kind of minor difference.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
Yes, the gang follows a certain code, cops and guards and other criminals are fair game, civilians are off limits.
Dutch sees himself as some sort of revolutionary, even if he doesn't make the actual jump to it, he's not just a crook, he's rebelling against civilization. He frames his actions and his gang as a type of revolution.
Micah goes a huge shooting sore in Strawberry, and murders a deputy? in his house and his family to get his pistols back, and that's treated as a bad thing, even before Arthur stops ignoring his conscience.
It's even worse than the loan shark and beating up debtors racket Strauss runs
I have a few of the low honour things running on my other monitor, and it looks like a low honour Arthur has a lot more dialogue where he talks about needing money to go "on vacation" to help him recover from his TB. That makes the option to go for the money in the end a lot more understandable, on a high honour run it's totally out of character, on low honour he's been talking about it for a while.
Posts
People being visible on your radar is consistent with GTA Online, and IMO it helps direct you to where the people are if you want to interact.
It definitely also helps to join a posse. Less chance of being griefed when you're surrounded by up to 7 people.
There is not. You can set up your own camp, where you can change outfits, swap horses, etc. And you have the option to deactivate combat in that area, but outside of that, it’s a free-for-all. The intent seems to be, as many people have suggested already, that you feel obligated to create a posse for more protection in free roam, which I don’t see any use to when 1. Half the server actively wants to just run around and shoot each other and 2. There’s an apparent lack of any cool down, penalty, or disincentive to just continuously walk up to the same person and shoot them over and over.
Apparently there is some sort of “parlay” function where you can open a communications channel to a person after they have killed you four or five times in a row so you can, I guess, politely asked them to stop doing it... Which, again, seems almost more like rockstar insulting you then actually trying to help.
I'm not aware if the voice chat part is mandatory or if that only applies if you've got world chat turned on
Giving me the option of interacting with a person for whom my specific problem was they didn’t leave me alone in the first place feels, again, like the literal opposite of a solution.
Look I’m not gonna keep nitpicking at it, clearly I’m Getting Mad at Video Games and being upset a game company didn’t make a thing the way I wanted is fruitless, but, man, just seems like a wasted opportunity when other open world and MMORPG studios are specifically putting in passive modes, historical modes, things for people who want to try a little non violent interaction and such. I have had so many friends say how all they wanted to do in RDO was gamble or hunt/fish or just wander around while chatting with folks online and “can I set it so people can’t walk up to me and shoot me in the head when I do this?” Is a question I hear so frequently that it’s kind of heartbreaking to have to say no.
I'm just talking about what Parley does
You lose honour. And his in turn can impact missions you can so apparently
I could see that, but it also lets people find you when you're just out in the wild exploring and kill you from a distance, which is the opposite of fun.
Also game wide voice chat is an abomination.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Mostly I just spend time trapping and harvesting herbs, taking down gang hide outs as they show up.
I did chuckle I worked up to buy the varmint rifle and proceeded to miss every god damn shot on varmints...
Also pro tip if your horse "de spawns" with hides on its back they go away, so if you are trapping for hides to sell make sure to keep your horse near you.
pleasepaypreacher.net
That is a very insightful take.
https://www.paypal.me/hobnailtaylor
I mean
Did they at least accept your apology
Not so much a plothole as questionable character work: we can see, above, numerous examples of Micah mocking a wide variety of people who A. physically outmatch him B. know where he sleeps and C. have extremely limited qualms about murdering people. In similar situations in the real world, I'm pretty certain the Micah Problem would have been resolved by one of them simply murdering him. There are reasons to believe that Arthur wouldn't have done it; what about Charles? What about Sadie? What about Lenny? What about Bill? What about Javier? Hell, what about Grimshaw?
I think this problem comes from them hitting the "Micah is a piece of shit" button too hard at various points, where it goes past the necessary "The Player Hates Micah" and reaches into "Why have none of these killers killed Micah?". I don't really buy that Sadie, in particular, wouldn't have shot him dead without even raising her heart rate.
Whole game spoilers
After Guarma, there’s only the Pinkerton raid in the swamps, but how would Micah even know about the swamp hideout when he got grabbed up in town. Arthur finds the hideout first, and then the rest show up later, but then the Pinkerton immediately attack after that.
I suppose he could have tipped off the oil fields about Eagle Flies, but that place is always crawling with guards anyway. And he definitely didn’t tell anybody the bridge would be blown up, or the dynamite stolen.
The biggest evidence is the raid on Beaver Hollow but even that comes after Arthur and Sadie just made a big scene in Van Horn so it’s plausible they were just scouring the countryside and found the camp.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I Redeemed the Two Dead Reds.
well I have the epilogue left but I'm getting burned out having played through chapter 6 so fast and I hear
Treat it like a DLC. It's somewhere between 6-10 hours, go take a break and come back to it when you want more Red Dead.
Is it fun to fuck around in as a palate cleanser? Kinda like going for a sidewalk drive in GTA?
Mostly I felt really compelled to see the story through towards the end even skipped some of the strangers stuff (there was just... so much of it) to get through the big story missions.
No way to instance your way into a private group?
Can I buy other people, esp. strangers, a drink at the saloon?
pleasepaypreacher.net
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
There is a free roam. I would save the collectibles for that and do sidequests before finishing.
Micah
I chased him down, got him back and quit.
Yeah, I mean it's important to remember that
full game spoilers
Also Micah isn't exactly antagonizing EVERYONE. He's antagonizing the guys who are newer to the gang than he is, thinking they owe him respect as an elder gang member. He's purposefully starting shit because he wants them to put up with it, as a sign of his seniority. Of course, nobody gives a fuck about what he thinks, and early on Micah's definitely not considered a senior man, even if he has been around longer than some of the other guys.
Wow, well at least when you go asshole in RDR 2 you go the full asshole. Like this isn't some kind of minor difference.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Dutch sees himself as some sort of revolutionary, even if he doesn't make the actual jump to it, he's not just a crook, he's rebelling against civilization. He frames his actions and his gang as a type of revolution.
Micah goes a huge shooting sore in Strawberry, and murders a deputy? in his house and his family to get his pistols back, and that's treated as a bad thing, even before Arthur stops ignoring his conscience.
It's even worse than the loan shark and beating up debtors racket Strauss runs
I think I only used it on O'Driscolls and Lemoyne Raiders outside of that
pleasepaypreacher.net