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[WH40K] The Blood Ravens are going to steal all your stuff

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Posts

  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    GWs video games are weird. You get a ton of trash but then you get absolute gems like total war: Warhammer and 40k: Mechanicus.

    I am weirdly ok with this game and marketing philosophy. True, a lot of the games are trash from a game standpoint, but I've yet to see one, even a trash game, go against the IP or lore.
    GW seems to say, "go for whatever game you want, but DO. NOT. FUCK. THE. IP."

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  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    I love Terminators, but let me tell you how much more fun they are to take with the new Rapid Fire rule.

    A Storm Bolter's S4 AP0 D1 statline is still fairly mediocre, but when you're firing off dozens of shots it gets pretty decent.

    73CQcJZ.png
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    I love Terminators, but let me tell you how much more fun they are to take with the new Rapid Fire rule.

    A Storm Bolter's S4 AP0 D1 statline is still fairly mediocre, but when you're firing off dozens of shots it gets pretty decent.

    Got a nasty surprise this weekend thanks to this combined with the Dark Angels' Deathwing Assault stratagem (which lets them fire twice in the turn they deep strike).

    Squishy Eldar very much do not like that many bolter shots aimed at them.

    BrainleechSmokeStacksMegaMek
  • MonwynMonwyn Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Got introduced to the joys of playing against Ad Mech on a board with very little terrain this weekend. A full two thirds of my list evaporating before my first turn sure was something to experience.

    It was also the first time I've played a Dark Eldar list since the FAQ, and I feel like I need to update my feelings on a lot of their units now - losing access to Doom and Jinx really hurts, as they've lost the only army-wide synergy they had access to.

    I also tried experimenting with some of their stuff for the first time in a while to see how I felt about it;
    • Close combat Archons still kind of suck and the Shadowfield remains hilariously unreliable. Cool, yeah, it's a 2++, but the first time you fail it the Archon is screwed.
    • Scourges feel pretty weak compared to other heavy weapon units post-FAQ, as they're fundamentally a T3 unit with zero access to any form of re-rolls or buffs.
    • A Red Grief Succubus actually seems really strong when kitted out with the warlord trait and relic, especially for 50 points, but her low speed relative to the rest of the army is a major issue. She either needs to take a personal transport or spend a turn or two just crossing the board. I think she worked well as an obnoxious target - even travelling up the board she's an obvious threat and the 3++/6+++ means she can take more of a beating than she really should be able to.
    • A good sized group of Reavers were solid as a distraction unit and I kind of want to start bringing them consistently. 19 points a piece is quite a hefty ask when they're not doing much but wrapping up other units and sometimes taking objectives, however.
    • Yvraine is good, but probably a bit too expensive for what she brings to the table (a Farseer Skyrunner is objectively better in almost every way for the exact same points cost) and very fragile. Almost certainly more useful than taking a second Archon in a Kabal Battalion, though.

    What was the Ad Mech build? Guessing either heavy bots, heavy Destroyers, or both?

  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    I'm going to be playing my friend's Admech on Saturday (he's gonna be playing it as Dark Mechanicus with some chaos stuff mixed in) so I'm hoping I don't get my ass shot off.

    73CQcJZ.png
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Monwyn wrote: »
    Burnage wrote: »
    Got introduced to the joys of playing against Ad Mech on a board with very little terrain this weekend. A full two thirds of my list evaporating before my first turn sure was something to experience.

    It was also the first time I've played a Dark Eldar list since the FAQ, and I feel like I need to update my feelings on a lot of their units now - losing access to Doom and Jinx really hurts, as they've lost the only army-wide synergy they had access to.

    I also tried experimenting with some of their stuff for the first time in a while to see how I felt about it;
    • Close combat Archons still kind of suck and the Shadowfield remains hilariously unreliable. Cool, yeah, it's a 2++, but the first time you fail it the Archon is screwed.
    • Scourges feel pretty weak compared to other heavy weapon units post-FAQ, as they're fundamentally a T3 unit with zero access to any form of re-rolls or buffs.
    • A Red Grief Succubus actually seems really strong when kitted out with the warlord trait and relic, especially for 50 points, but her low speed relative to the rest of the army is a major issue. She either needs to take a personal transport or spend a turn or two just crossing the board. I think she worked well as an obnoxious target - even travelling up the board she's an obvious threat and the 3++/6+++ means she can take more of a beating than she really should be able to.
    • A good sized group of Reavers were solid as a distraction unit and I kind of want to start bringing them consistently. 19 points a piece is quite a hefty ask when they're not doing much but wrapping up other units and sometimes taking objectives, however.
    • Yvraine is good, but probably a bit too expensive for what she brings to the table (a Farseer Skyrunner is objectively better in almost every way for the exact same points cost) and very fragile. Almost certainly more useful than taking a second Archon in a Kabal Battalion, though.

    What was the Ad Mech build? Guessing either heavy bots, heavy Destroyers, or both?

    It was something like four robots and two Dunecrawlers, five Destroyers and thirty Rangers.

  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    It's interesting to see people experiment with contrast



    While not super smooth I think this has some cool oppertunities for more weathered vehivles/larger miniatures with sunfaded paintjobs or gradients when applying different colours over larger surfaces

  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    Played Necrons vs Ultramarines over the weekend. The Marine player is trying to learn the army, so I didn't go balls to the wall (some of what I brought was 40 Necron Warriors in a 2k game, a f'ng Doom Scythe, and 10 Deathmarks), but I did bring Destroyers just to provide some pressure.

    He had Guilliman and went Dread heavy. Chaplain Dread was one (it sucks and will be pruned next time, I hear), Leviathan, Redemptor, etc. No hellblasters this time as he was disappointed w/them last time.

    It was a shockingly close game, all things considered (RNG didn't overly screw or benefit us on Maelstrom cards drawn), but my personal highlight was the 10 Deathmarks actually getting to unload on Roboute and landing 6 mortal wounds on him. Were it not for Armor of Contempt and Victrix Guard, he'd have been dead....survived with one wound.

    Yes, I know, he still could've come back, but.....

    I want to try to find a more ideal Space Marine list for him, though. It always feels like he has too many bolters and not enough anti-tank.

    As for the game, I lost on points, barely, but militarily had 6 unscathed Destroyers that were going to annihilate his last Dread and Roboute. It was a close game.

    XBL: Bizazedo
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    CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
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  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    I don't know I like the look of the ones without the crest like the old wraithguard
    i358udsxxwn6.png
    My brother referred to the one on the right as the seriously I died for this?

    MegaMek
  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    I'm still trying to decide between gluing little platforms before doing crackle, or pinning the feet after applying.

    Lord_Asmodeus.gifLord_Asmodeus2.gifz1i30sg.png
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    So its been fun watching the meta shift recently.

    CSM are rising, to no surprise. One of the big detachments is:

    Supreme Command (mixed)

    -Ahriman (duh)
    -World Eaters Master of Executions
    -Crimson Slaughter JP Sorc

    And usually Morty.

    The second is a murder machine that fights twice, deny's psychic powers, and can mortal wound on a 5+ with votlw.

    The last is for the stratagem.

    2 cp- Target a terrain piece with in 12" of a crimson slaughter unit during your opponents shooting phase. Any unit with in 3" of that terrain piece has a -1 penalty to hit for all shooting attacks.

    This is being stacked with 60+ plaguebearers basically giving your entire force of troops a -2/-3 to hit.

    03x29di.png
  • TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    edited June 12
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So its been fun watching the meta shift recently.

    CSM are rising, to no surprise. One of the big detachments is:

    Supreme Command (mixed)

    -Ahriman (duh)
    -World Eaters Master of Executions
    -Crimson Slaughter JP Sorc

    And usually Morty.

    The second is a murder machine that fights twice, deny's psychic powers, and can mortal wound on a 5+ with votlw.

    The last is for the stratagem.

    2 cp- Target a terrain piece with in 12" of a crimson slaughter unit during your opponents shooting phase. Any unit with in 3" of that terrain piece has a -1 penalty to hit for all shooting attacks.

    This is being stacked with 60+ plaguebearers basically giving your entire force of troops a -2/-3 to hit.

    Taking a command detachment like that means no legion traits for those guys right? So Ahriman doesn't get his extra 6 inches to cast right? Also it fucks with available stratagems a bit if I recall?

    TheGerbil on

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So its been fun watching the meta shift recently.

    CSM are rising, to no surprise. One of the big detachments is:

    Supreme Command (mixed)

    -Ahriman (duh)
    -World Eaters Master of Executions
    -Crimson Slaughter JP Sorc

    And usually Morty.

    The second is a murder machine that fights twice, deny's psychic powers, and can mortal wound on a 5+ with votlw.

    The last is for the stratagem.

    2 cp- Target a terrain piece with in 12" of a crimson slaughter unit during your opponents shooting phase. Any unit with in 3" of that terrain piece has a -1 penalty to hit for all shooting attacks.

    This is being stacked with 60+ plaguebearers basically giving your entire force of troops a -2/-3 to hit.

    Taking a command detachment like that means no legion traits for those guys right? So Ahriman doesn't get his extra 6 inches to cast right? Also it fucks with available stratagems a bit if I recall?

    No legion traits as in the 6" to cast or the +1 attack on the charge. It unlocks all the stratagems from the legions in it. Other detachments can have legion traits fine.

    So you don't get legion traits but you gain the 2 cp stratagem, access Ahriman and all the Tsons stratagems, and access to the WE stratagems. Also all the relics and stuff for legal targets.

    And Morty doesn't care about 18" rapid fire because he doesn't rapid fire or carry a heavy weapon.

    03x29di.png
  • ChrysisChrysis Registered User regular
    edited June 12
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So its been fun watching the meta shift recently.

    CSM are rising, to no surprise. One of the big detachments is:

    Supreme Command (mixed)

    -Ahriman (duh)
    -World Eaters Master of Executions
    -Crimson Slaughter JP Sorc

    And usually Morty.

    The second is a murder machine that fights twice, deny's psychic powers, and can mortal wound on a 5+ with votlw.

    The last is for the stratagem.

    2 cp- Target a terrain piece with in 12" of a crimson slaughter unit during your opponents shooting phase. Any unit with in 3" of that terrain piece has a -1 penalty to hit for all shooting attacks.

    This is being stacked with 60+ plaguebearers basically giving your entire force of troops a -2/-3 to hit.

    Taking a command detachment like that means no legion traits for those guys right? So Ahriman doesn't get his extra 6 inches to cast right? Also it fucks with available stratagems a bit if I recall?

    No legion traits as in the 6" to cast or the +1 attack on the charge. It unlocks all the stratagems from the legions in it. Other detachments can have legion traits fine.

    So you don't get legion traits but you gain the 2 cp stratagem, access Ahriman and all the Tsons stratagems, and access to the WE stratagems. Also all the relics and stuff for legal targets.

    And Morty doesn't care about 18" rapid fire because he doesn't rapid fire or carry a heavy weapon.

    It doesn't get you Thousand Sons stratagems. To unlock Thousand Sons Stratagems you need a Thousand Sons detachment (excl. Aux. Support), that is "any Detachment which includes only THOUSAND SONS units." World Eaters and Crimson Slaughter are not Thousand Sons, so no stratagems unlocked by this detachment.

    Almost certainly no Crimson Slaughter stratagems either, as they are unlocked by Chaos Space Marine detachments "taken from" Renegade Chapters. It's a bit more vague though.

    Chrysis on
    Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular

    notoriusben_zpsa205e831.png
    Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
    italianranmaH3KnucklesMonwynvalhalla130ForceVoidBizazedoOrogogusBrainleechGolden YakKhraulLord_Asmodeus
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Chrysis wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So its been fun watching the meta shift recently.

    CSM are rising, to no surprise. One of the big detachments is:

    Supreme Command (mixed)

    -Ahriman (duh)
    -World Eaters Master of Executions
    -Crimson Slaughter JP Sorc

    And usually Morty.

    The second is a murder machine that fights twice, deny's psychic powers, and can mortal wound on a 5+ with votlw.

    The last is for the stratagem.

    2 cp- Target a terrain piece with in 12" of a crimson slaughter unit during your opponents shooting phase. Any unit with in 3" of that terrain piece has a -1 penalty to hit for all shooting attacks.

    This is being stacked with 60+ plaguebearers basically giving your entire force of troops a -2/-3 to hit.

    Taking a command detachment like that means no legion traits for those guys right? So Ahriman doesn't get his extra 6 inches to cast right? Also it fucks with available stratagems a bit if I recall?

    No legion traits as in the 6" to cast or the +1 attack on the charge. It unlocks all the stratagems from the legions in it. Other detachments can have legion traits fine.

    So you don't get legion traits but you gain the 2 cp stratagem, access Ahriman and all the Tsons stratagems, and access to the WE stratagems. Also all the relics and stuff for legal targets.

    And Morty doesn't care about 18" rapid fire because he doesn't rapid fire or carry a heavy weapon.

    It doesn't get you Thousand Sons stratagems. To unlock Thousand Sons Stratagems you need a Thousand Sons detachment (excl. Aux. Support), that is "any Detachment which includes only THOUSAND SONS units." World Eaters and Crimson Slaughter are not Thousand Sons, so no stratagems unlocked by this detachment.

    Almost certainly no Crimson Slaughter stratagems either, as they are unlocked by Chaos Space Marine detachments "taken from" Renegade Chapters. It's a bit more vague though.

    You get the Renegade stratagems. Since it is written:

    "If your army is battle-forged, the stratagems on page 199 can be used in addition to those presented in chaos space marines to reflect the fighting style of renegade chapter warriors."

    The army is battle forged as T-Sons and all CSM have both the Chaos and Heretic Astartes Keyword.

    T-Sons I guess not but there isn't a lot you would be using there anyway. Plus the CSM stuff is unlocked by usually a supreme command of 3 flawless host lords discordants.

    03x29di.png
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    "In addition to those presented in Chaos Space Marines" sounds like you need to fulfill the criteria to unlock CSM strategems, and they'll probably have the same wording every other codex has where you need one non-auxiliary detachment to unlock them.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    "In addition to those presented in Chaos Space Marines" sounds like you need to fulfill the criteria to unlock CSM strategems, and they'll probably have the same wording every other codex has where you need one non-auxiliary detachment to unlock them.

    I think so. You have to realize this detachment is usually attached to a list with a CSM detachment and a daemon detachment on top of the mixed detachment.

    03x29di.png
  • valhalla130valhalla130 13 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered User regular
    Anybody else excited for Spear of the Emperor? I am waiting for Friday. (Payday)

  • ChrysisChrysis Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Chrysis wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So its been fun watching the meta shift recently.

    CSM are rising, to no surprise. One of the big detachments is:

    Supreme Command (mixed)

    -Ahriman (duh)
    -World Eaters Master of Executions
    -Crimson Slaughter JP Sorc

    And usually Morty.

    The second is a murder machine that fights twice, deny's psychic powers, and can mortal wound on a 5+ with votlw.

    The last is for the stratagem.

    2 cp- Target a terrain piece with in 12" of a crimson slaughter unit during your opponents shooting phase. Any unit with in 3" of that terrain piece has a -1 penalty to hit for all shooting attacks.

    This is being stacked with 60+ plaguebearers basically giving your entire force of troops a -2/-3 to hit.

    Taking a command detachment like that means no legion traits for those guys right? So Ahriman doesn't get his extra 6 inches to cast right? Also it fucks with available stratagems a bit if I recall?

    No legion traits as in the 6" to cast or the +1 attack on the charge. It unlocks all the stratagems from the legions in it. Other detachments can have legion traits fine.

    So you don't get legion traits but you gain the 2 cp stratagem, access Ahriman and all the Tsons stratagems, and access to the WE stratagems. Also all the relics and stuff for legal targets.

    And Morty doesn't care about 18" rapid fire because he doesn't rapid fire or carry a heavy weapon.

    It doesn't get you Thousand Sons stratagems. To unlock Thousand Sons Stratagems you need a Thousand Sons detachment (excl. Aux. Support), that is "any Detachment which includes only THOUSAND SONS units." World Eaters and Crimson Slaughter are not Thousand Sons, so no stratagems unlocked by this detachment.

    Almost certainly no Crimson Slaughter stratagems either, as they are unlocked by Chaos Space Marine detachments "taken from" Renegade Chapters. It's a bit more vague though.

    You get the Renegade stratagems. Since it is written:

    "If your army is battle-forged, the stratagems on page 199 can be used in addition to those presented in chaos space marines to reflect the fighting style of renegade chapter warriors."

    The army is battle forged as T-Sons and all CSM have both the Chaos and Heretic Astartes Keyword.

    T-Sons I guess not but there isn't a lot you would be using there anyway. Plus the CSM stuff is unlocked by usually a supreme command of 3 flawless host lords discordants.

    And then on page 199 it says you can use the stratagems if you have detachments "taken from Renegade Chapters. "
    The wording is inconsistent with other Stratagem pages, but I wouldn't say a Detachment with Ahriman was taken from a Renegade chapter.

    Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Chrysis wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Chrysis wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So its been fun watching the meta shift recently.

    CSM are rising, to no surprise. One of the big detachments is:

    Supreme Command (mixed)

    -Ahriman (duh)
    -World Eaters Master of Executions
    -Crimson Slaughter JP Sorc

    And usually Morty.

    The second is a murder machine that fights twice, deny's psychic powers, and can mortal wound on a 5+ with votlw.

    The last is for the stratagem.

    2 cp- Target a terrain piece with in 12" of a crimson slaughter unit during your opponents shooting phase. Any unit with in 3" of that terrain piece has a -1 penalty to hit for all shooting attacks.

    This is being stacked with 60+ plaguebearers basically giving your entire force of troops a -2/-3 to hit.

    Taking a command detachment like that means no legion traits for those guys right? So Ahriman doesn't get his extra 6 inches to cast right? Also it fucks with available stratagems a bit if I recall?

    No legion traits as in the 6" to cast or the +1 attack on the charge. It unlocks all the stratagems from the legions in it. Other detachments can have legion traits fine.

    So you don't get legion traits but you gain the 2 cp stratagem, access Ahriman and all the Tsons stratagems, and access to the WE stratagems. Also all the relics and stuff for legal targets.

    And Morty doesn't care about 18" rapid fire because he doesn't rapid fire or carry a heavy weapon.

    It doesn't get you Thousand Sons stratagems. To unlock Thousand Sons Stratagems you need a Thousand Sons detachment (excl. Aux. Support), that is "any Detachment which includes only THOUSAND SONS units." World Eaters and Crimson Slaughter are not Thousand Sons, so no stratagems unlocked by this detachment.

    Almost certainly no Crimson Slaughter stratagems either, as they are unlocked by Chaos Space Marine detachments "taken from" Renegade Chapters. It's a bit more vague though.

    You get the Renegade stratagems. Since it is written:

    "If your army is battle-forged, the stratagems on page 199 can be used in addition to those presented in chaos space marines to reflect the fighting style of renegade chapter warriors."

    The army is battle forged as T-Sons and all CSM have both the Chaos and Heretic Astartes Keyword.

    T-Sons I guess not but there isn't a lot you would be using there anyway. Plus the CSM stuff is unlocked by usually a supreme command of 3 flawless host lords discordants.

    And then on page 199 it says you can use the stratagems if you have detachments "taken from Renegade Chapters. "
    The wording is inconsistent with other Stratagem pages, but I wouldn't say a Detachment with Ahriman was taken from a Renegade chapter.

    I think what you are missing is that the CSM strats say:

    "If your army is battleforged and includes any Chaos Space Marine detachments..." As long as you have at least one CSM detachment you can use the stratagems. Doesn't have to be the same legion as your CSM detachment.

    So if you have the Flawless Host Lords Discordant detachment that gives you a CSM detachment which unlocks the stratagems. The restriction is you have to be with in 12" of a Crimson Slaughter unit to use the stratagem. So you can use it even if you don't have a full Crimson Slaughter detachment.

    03x29di.png
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    Anybody else excited for Spear of the Emperor? I am waiting for Friday. (Payday)

    Yes but part of me wanted the waterdecals

    valhalla130
  • ChrysisChrysis Registered User regular
    edited June 13
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Chrysis wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Chrysis wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So its been fun watching the meta shift recently.

    CSM are rising, to no surprise. One of the big detachments is:

    Supreme Command (mixed)

    -Ahriman (duh)
    -World Eaters Master of Executions
    -Crimson Slaughter JP Sorc

    And usually Morty.

    The second is a murder machine that fights twice, deny's psychic powers, and can mortal wound on a 5+ with votlw.

    The last is for the stratagem.

    2 cp- Target a terrain piece with in 12" of a crimson slaughter unit during your opponents shooting phase. Any unit with in 3" of that terrain piece has a -1 penalty to hit for all shooting attacks.

    This is being stacked with 60+ plaguebearers basically giving your entire force of troops a -2/-3 to hit.

    Taking a command detachment like that means no legion traits for those guys right? So Ahriman doesn't get his extra 6 inches to cast right? Also it fucks with available stratagems a bit if I recall?

    No legion traits as in the 6" to cast or the +1 attack on the charge. It unlocks all the stratagems from the legions in it. Other detachments can have legion traits fine.

    So you don't get legion traits but you gain the 2 cp stratagem, access Ahriman and all the Tsons stratagems, and access to the WE stratagems. Also all the relics and stuff for legal targets.

    And Morty doesn't care about 18" rapid fire because he doesn't rapid fire or carry a heavy weapon.

    It doesn't get you Thousand Sons stratagems. To unlock Thousand Sons Stratagems you need a Thousand Sons detachment (excl. Aux. Support), that is "any Detachment which includes only THOUSAND SONS units." World Eaters and Crimson Slaughter are not Thousand Sons, so no stratagems unlocked by this detachment.

    Almost certainly no Crimson Slaughter stratagems either, as they are unlocked by Chaos Space Marine detachments "taken from" Renegade Chapters. It's a bit more vague though.

    You get the Renegade stratagems. Since it is written:

    "If your army is battle-forged, the stratagems on page 199 can be used in addition to those presented in chaos space marines to reflect the fighting style of renegade chapter warriors."

    The army is battle forged as T-Sons and all CSM have both the Chaos and Heretic Astartes Keyword.

    T-Sons I guess not but there isn't a lot you would be using there anyway. Plus the CSM stuff is unlocked by usually a supreme command of 3 flawless host lords discordants.

    And then on page 199 it says you can use the stratagems if you have detachments "taken from Renegade Chapters. "
    The wording is inconsistent with other Stratagem pages, but I wouldn't say a Detachment with Ahriman was taken from a Renegade chapter.

    I think what you are missing is that the CSM strats say:

    "If your army is battleforged and includes any Chaos Space Marine detachments..." As long as you have at least one CSM detachment you can use the stratagems. Doesn't have to be the same legion as your CSM detachment.

    So if you have the Flawless Host Lords Discordant detachment that gives you a CSM detachment which unlocks the stratagems. The restriction is you have to be with in 12" of a Crimson Slaughter unit to use the stratagem. So you can use it even if you don't have a full Crimson Slaughter detachment.

    No, I didn't miss that. But I think we're talking about different things. Specifically I'm talking about this detachment in a vacuum, which obviously it wouldn't be, but is what I took from the "It unlocks all the stratagems from the legions in it." quote.

    My point was that the aforementioned detachment doesn't unlock any new stratagems. It certainly gives targets, but doesn't unlock anything itself. It's not a Thousand Sons detachment, so you don't get Thousand Sons if you didn't already. It's also not a Chaos Space Marines detachment (because they need a shared <LEGION>), so doesn't unlock those if they weren't already. I did get a little bogged down on the renegade stratagems part, as to whether you'd get access to the renegade stratagems if you didn't otherwise have a detachment taken from a Renegade Chapter. So for your example if it was a Black Legion Lords Discordant, would you still get the Crimson Slaughter stratagem? I think no, because the renegade stratagem page has the extra restriction that the intro section does not.

    Chrysis on
    Tri-Optimum reminds you that there are only one-hundred-sixty-three shopping days until Christmas. Just 1 extra work cycle twice a week will give you the spending money you need to make this holiday a very special one.
  • TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    edited June 13
    Chrysis wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So its been fun watching the meta shift recently.

    CSM are rising, to no surprise. One of the big detachments is:

    Supreme Command (mixed)

    -Ahriman (duh)
    -World Eaters Master of Executions
    -Crimson Slaughter JP Sorc

    And usually Morty.

    The second is a murder machine that fights twice, deny's psychic powers, and can mortal wound on a 5+ with votlw.

    The last is for the stratagem.

    2 cp- Target a terrain piece with in 12" of a crimson slaughter unit during your opponents shooting phase. Any unit with in 3" of that terrain piece has a -1 penalty to hit for all shooting attacks.

    This is being stacked with 60+ plaguebearers basically giving your entire force of troops a -2/-3 to hit.

    Taking a command detachment like that means no legion traits for those guys right? So Ahriman doesn't get his extra 6 inches to cast right? Also it fucks with available stratagems a bit if I recall?

    No legion traits as in the 6" to cast or the +1 attack on the charge. It unlocks all the stratagems from the legions in it. Other detachments can have legion traits fine.

    So you don't get legion traits but you gain the 2 cp stratagem, access Ahriman and all the Tsons stratagems, and access to the WE stratagems. Also all the relics and stuff for legal targets.

    And Morty doesn't care about 18" rapid fire because he doesn't rapid fire or carry a heavy weapon.

    It doesn't get you Thousand Sons stratagems. To unlock Thousand Sons Stratagems you need a Thousand Sons detachment (excl. Aux. Support), that is "any Detachment which includes only THOUSAND SONS units." World Eaters and Crimson Slaughter are not Thousand Sons, so no stratagems unlocked by this detachment.

    Almost certainly no Crimson Slaughter stratagems either, as they are unlocked by Chaos Space Marine detachments "taken from" Renegade Chapters. It's a bit more vague though.

    I think this is what I meant. I assumed another detachment would be heretic astartes and so their strategems are legal but without a DG or TS detachment none of their strategems are.

    Since you have access to all strategems in the CSM codex you can use the Crimson slaughter strategems on the sorc even though he's in a mixed detachment.

    TheGerbil on

  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    Yea with the additional note that there's going to be a CSM battalion anyway then there's no problem, the two CSM HQs in the Supreme Command are just there to make it easier to take Ahriman.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Chrysis wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Chrysis wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Chrysis wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So its been fun watching the meta shift recently.

    CSM are rising, to no surprise. One of the big detachments is:

    Supreme Command (mixed)

    -Ahriman (duh)
    -World Eaters Master of Executions
    -Crimson Slaughter JP Sorc

    And usually Morty.

    The second is a murder machine that fights twice, deny's psychic powers, and can mortal wound on a 5+ with votlw.

    The last is for the stratagem.

    2 cp- Target a terrain piece with in 12" of a crimson slaughter unit during your opponents shooting phase. Any unit with in 3" of that terrain piece has a -1 penalty to hit for all shooting attacks.

    This is being stacked with 60+ plaguebearers basically giving your entire force of troops a -2/-3 to hit.

    Taking a command detachment like that means no legion traits for those guys right? So Ahriman doesn't get his extra 6 inches to cast right? Also it fucks with available stratagems a bit if I recall?

    No legion traits as in the 6" to cast or the +1 attack on the charge. It unlocks all the stratagems from the legions in it. Other detachments can have legion traits fine.

    So you don't get legion traits but you gain the 2 cp stratagem, access Ahriman and all the Tsons stratagems, and access to the WE stratagems. Also all the relics and stuff for legal targets.

    And Morty doesn't care about 18" rapid fire because he doesn't rapid fire or carry a heavy weapon.

    It doesn't get you Thousand Sons stratagems. To unlock Thousand Sons Stratagems you need a Thousand Sons detachment (excl. Aux. Support), that is "any Detachment which includes only THOUSAND SONS units." World Eaters and Crimson Slaughter are not Thousand Sons, so no stratagems unlocked by this detachment.

    Almost certainly no Crimson Slaughter stratagems either, as they are unlocked by Chaos Space Marine detachments "taken from" Renegade Chapters. It's a bit more vague though.

    You get the Renegade stratagems. Since it is written:

    "If your army is battle-forged, the stratagems on page 199 can be used in addition to those presented in chaos space marines to reflect the fighting style of renegade chapter warriors."

    The army is battle forged as T-Sons and all CSM have both the Chaos and Heretic Astartes Keyword.

    T-Sons I guess not but there isn't a lot you would be using there anyway. Plus the CSM stuff is unlocked by usually a supreme command of 3 flawless host lords discordants.

    And then on page 199 it says you can use the stratagems if you have detachments "taken from Renegade Chapters. "
    The wording is inconsistent with other Stratagem pages, but I wouldn't say a Detachment with Ahriman was taken from a Renegade chapter.

    I think what you are missing is that the CSM strats say:

    "If your army is battleforged and includes any Chaos Space Marine detachments..." As long as you have at least one CSM detachment you can use the stratagems. Doesn't have to be the same legion as your CSM detachment.

    So if you have the Flawless Host Lords Discordant detachment that gives you a CSM detachment which unlocks the stratagems. The restriction is you have to be with in 12" of a Crimson Slaughter unit to use the stratagem. So you can use it even if you don't have a full Crimson Slaughter detachment.

    No, I didn't miss that. But I think we're talking about different things. Specifically I'm talking about this detachment in a vacuum, which obviously it wouldn't be, but is what I took from the "It unlocks all the stratagems from the legions in it." quote.

    My point was that the aforementioned detachment doesn't unlock any new stratagems. It certainly gives targets, but doesn't unlock anything itself. It's not a Thousand Sons detachment, so you don't get Thousand Sons if you didn't already. It's also not a Chaos Space Marines detachment (because they need a shared <LEGION>), so doesn't unlock those if they weren't already. I did get a little bogged down on the renegade stratagems part, as to whether you'd get access to the renegade stratagems if you didn't otherwise have a detachment taken from a Renegade Chapter. So for your example if it was a Black Legion Lords Discordant, would you still get the Crimson Slaughter stratagem? I think no, because the renegade stratagem page has the extra restriction that the intro section does not.

    I think actually that depends on the CSM 2.0 codex which I don't have. I have Vigilus Ablaze and CSM 1.0. If the 2.0 does not have that printed it supersedes the Vigilus rules and you do not need a renegade detachment just a CSM detachment. How I think it is intended is, "You can use these stratagems as well as those in the CSM codex."

    03x29di.png
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Gp6EcpQYsSWL9jAPCtS_zWOK1xxh0p7Zq3H7MmieBG0.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=553b6de3d5f6b208b5479b0d0c7a5cf2ba9c5730

    So hide your relics. The Blood Ravens are coming.

    03x29di.png
    italianranmaLord_AsmodeusH3Knucklesvalhalla130
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So hide your relics. The Blood Ravens are coming.

    Hippity Hoppity, where the fuck is my property!

    notoriusben_zpsa205e831.png
    Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
    see317NipsIanator
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    edited June 14
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So hide your relics. The Blood Ravens are coming.

    Hippity Hoppity, where the fuck is my property!

    "Bolt. Down. Everything."

    "Hey, you like my new warhammer? It was a gift. Even came with a collection of floor bolts."

    Edit:
    Didn't see it posted here, but Astartes part IV is up.

    see317 on
    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
    H3KnucklesNotoriusBEN
  • Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    edited June 14
    Mazzyx wrote: »

    So hide your relics. The Blood Ravens are coming.

    Oh. Oh shit.

    Now give me rules and model for Lieutenant Mira from Space Marine.

    Dr_Keenbean on
    PSN: Dr_Keenbean LIVE: Dr Keenbean Battle.net Drkeenbean#1951
    valhalla130BurnageitalianranmaBrainleech
  • NotoriusBENNotoriusBEN Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So hide your relics. The Blood Ravens are coming.

    Hippity Hoppity, where the fuck is my property!

    "Bolt. Down. Everything."

    "Hey, you like my new warhammer? It was a gift. Even came with a collection of floor bolts."

    Edit:
    Didn't see it posted here, but Astartes part IV is up.

    I'm like 4 posts above you with Astartes part IV :P


    notoriusben_zpsa205e831.png
    Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So hide your relics. The Blood Ravens are coming.

    Hippity Hoppity, where the fuck is my property!

    "Bolt. Down. Everything."

    "Hey, you like my new warhammer? It was a gift. Even came with a collection of floor bolts."

    Edit:
    Didn't see it posted here, but Astartes part IV is up.

    I'm like 4 posts above you with Astartes part IV :P

    Well, I'm not particularly observant.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    see317 wrote: »
    see317 wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So hide your relics. The Blood Ravens are coming.

    Hippity Hoppity, where the fuck is my property!

    "Bolt. Down. Everything."

    "Hey, you like my new warhammer? It was a gift. Even came with a collection of floor bolts."

    Edit:
    Didn't see it posted here, but Astartes part IV is up.

    I'm like 4 posts above you with Astartes part IV :P

    Well, I'm not particularly observant.

    Maybe you should get out of your box?

    (Alt: Ironic handle, then.)

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
    see317
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    So the War Store close out. Most of what I ordered didn't ship. E-mailing Neal he says he won't respond to e-mails anymore, but if you didn't get everything he'll get around to doing refunds eventually. Of course, it was all gift cards so I might be hosed. His departure like a thief in the night is a bummer and highly bizarre.

    What is this I don't even.
    H3KnucklesBrainleech
  • Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    I ordered a couple P3 paints and a $10 FFG Star Wars card game pretty much right after he announced it. I got the paints but no card game. In its place was a copy of Imperial Assault.

    I think his inventory of Fucks to Give was the first thing to run out.

    PSN: Dr_Keenbean LIVE: Dr Keenbean Battle.net Drkeenbean#1951
    KhraulDarkewolfeExtreaminatus
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    There is a rumour going around that he was screwed over by a couple of shitheels involved in a convict rehabilitation scheme he was participating in, to the order of five figures of stock disappearing over several months.
    Since this was apparently a religious programme organised out of his church it may have had a deeper psychological impact than the raw numbers would suggest too….

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I just wish we hadn't gotten that gift card to the store recently because I think we're out $70.

    What is this I don't even.
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    There is a rumour going around that he was screwed over by a couple of shitheels involved in a convict rehabilitation scheme he was participating in, to the order of five figures of stock disappearing over several months.
    Since this was apparently a religious programme organised out of his church it may have had a deeper psychological impact than the raw numbers would suggest too….

    It's not a rumor - there was an article in the local paper about it back in Dec 2017. Total loss that the two dickheads stole was about $200,000. Google 'Neil Capatano' and it's the first news result.

    I would imagine that the next yearish was spent sorting out business insurance, what's actually in inventory now that those two aren't screwing with it anymore, and finally, what actually could be done next in terms of business.

  • Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    Fuck, man. That's horrible.

    PSN: Dr_Keenbean LIVE: Dr Keenbean Battle.net Drkeenbean#1951
    Stragintvalhalla130Lord_AsmodeusH3KnucklesBurnageIanatorsee317NipsSleep
  • LockedOnTargetLockedOnTarget Registered User regular
    So these new contrast paints rule

    I did this in like 20 mins
    460drr3immpm.jpgnvlj502fdshn.jpg

    MazzyxH3KnucklesStragintVikingvalhalla130Nips
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