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[WH40K] We are that guy. He is us.

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Posts

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    Cool, thank you. I think we played that wrong when I ran a Necron list with the intent to let things explode but next time there will be no survivors.

    So what happens if you fail the skill test? And what kind of skills do they test?

    That's what I was wondering. I gathered it was anti-gambling, but, what if I get it wrong?!

    they ask a single simple question normally, like what is 2x3 or the capital of BC

    you do not get the prize and also everybody laughs at you(seriously you don't get the prize)

  • TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    £250 seems pretty steep for a box of Marines. Maybe I'll skip this Sisters release.

    I mean... It's not a box. The 250 is the whole army line.

    I was trying to make witty social commentary about GW prices.

    Clearly I was outwitted.


  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Moving onto the dry brush portion of my knight. The armor panels are going to end up Space Wolves colors with gold trim.

    As far as dry brushing I'm not sure what color to use. I was gonna use necron compound but I kind of want to do a different color.

    Would anyone have suggestions on what would look good?

    Current picture for reference.

    UudlKGx.jpg

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
    H3Knucklesvalhalla130ExtreaminatusNipsTheColonel
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    Cool, thank you. I think we played that wrong when I ran a Necron list with the intent to let things explode but next time there will be no survivors.

    So what happens if you fail the skill test? And what kind of skills do they test?

    That's what I was wondering. I gathered it was anti-gambling, but, what if I get it wrong?!

    they ask a single simple question normally, like what is 2x3 or the capital of BC

    you do not get the prize and also everybody laughs at you(seriously you don't get the prize)
    In situations like this, you have to deliberately get the answer wrong. Like, 'headquartered in Nottingham England, with the Sisters of Battle being their much anticipated next release, what do their initials GW stand for?'

  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    Gerald Willyfordingham!

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Apparently last weekend there was a pretty big tournament where a Castellan got one-shot by the Genestealer Cults' Mental Onslaught power.

    Castellans are kind of bullshit, but fucking yikes. 28 wounds just gone from a single ability is crazy.

    italianranma
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Isn't it a combination of 3 or 4 abilities? Still a weird loophole but also kinda funny.

  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    I was thinking of dry brushing a gold or bronze color on my knight and warglaives instead of silver. Would that look good?

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Isn't it a combination of 3 or 4 abilities? Still a weird loophole but also kinda funny.

    For maximum effectiveness, yeah, but they're all cheap units that GSC would probably want to take anyway. Less than 300 points to point and click delete almost any model in the game is ridiculous.

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    Please note that it is “any model” not any unit; the power checks for the target being dead before looping back to test to inflict the next wound. That’s still bad in a game where Knights and Titans exist but then there are some people that consider Knights and Titans bad for the game too…

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
    italianranmaExtreaminatusvalhalla130Moridin889
  • ExtreaminatusExtreaminatus Registered User regular
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    TheGerbil wrote: »
    £250 seems pretty steep for a box of Marines. Maybe I'll skip this Sisters release.

    I mean... It's not a box. The 250 is the whole army line.

    I was trying to make witty social commentary about GW prices.

    Clearly I was outwitted.

    Not really, it was just an un-funny and tired joke.

    Preacher wrote: »
    There are plenty of people out there that believe in white supremacy and sweet sweet big foot dick.
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    I was thinking of dry brushing a gold or bronze color on my knight and warglaives instead of silver. Would that look good?

    Yes.

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Please note that it is “any model” not any unit; the power checks for the target being dead before looping back to test to inflict the next wound. That’s still bad in a game where Knights and Titans exist but then there are some people that consider Knights and Titans bad for the game too…

    Killing your general is also bad for the game. It’s a clearly unintended loophole that needs to be axed

    italianranma
  • ExtreaminatusExtreaminatus Registered User regular
    What is this nonsense ability? I haven't heard of this thing before.

    Preacher wrote: »
    There are plenty of people out there that believe in white supremacy and sweet sweet big foot dick.
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    What is this nonsense ability? I haven't heard of this thing before.
    IIRC it’s called “Mental Onslaught” and the psyker and the target roll off, adding their respective leadership. If the psyker wins, they inflict a mortal wound and roll again. If they lose, the power ends.
    The problem is that genecults have easy access to several leadership modifiers that can buff the psyker or weaken the target to the point that the difference in leadership is so great that the die roll can’t save the target and they suffer unlimited wounds with no redress.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
    ExtreaminatusH3Knuckles
  • ExtreaminatusExtreaminatus Registered User regular
    edited April 16
    Thanks for the explanation! That sounds super dumb.

    Extreaminatus on
    Preacher wrote: »
    There are plenty of people out there that believe in white supremacy and sweet sweet big foot dick.
    H3Knucklesvalhalla130
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    edited April 16
    Stragint wrote: »
    I was thinking of dry brushing a gold or bronze color on my knight and warglaives instead of silver. Would that look good?

    Yes.

    What would potentially look better? The details on the skeletons are retributor gold and the exhaust pipes at the top are warplock bronze.

    I have auric gold, balthazar gold, gehennas gold, liberator gold, warplock bronze, sycorax bronze, and skullcrusher brass.

    Stragint on
    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • H3KnucklesH3Knuckles Jack of all interests... ...master of noneRegistered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    I was thinking of dry brushing a gold or bronze color on my knight and warglaives instead of silver. Would that look good?

    Yes.

    What would potentially look better? The details on the skeletons are retributor gold and the exhaust pipes at the top are warplock bronze.

    I have auric gold, balthazar gold, gehennas gold, liberator gold, warplock bronze, sycorax bronze, and skullcrusher brass.

    Do you have any leftover sprue bits you could paint bands of each on to see a side-by-side comparison of?

    If you're curious about my icon; it's an update of the early Lego Castle theme's "Black Falcons" faction.
    camo_sig2-400.png
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    H3Knuckles wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    I was thinking of dry brushing a gold or bronze color on my knight and warglaives instead of silver. Would that look good?

    Yes.

    What would potentially look better? The details on the skeletons are retributor gold and the exhaust pipes at the top are warplock bronze.

    I have auric gold, balthazar gold, gehennas gold, liberator gold, warplock bronze, sycorax bronze, and skullcrusher brass.

    Do you have any leftover sprue bits you could paint bands of each on to see a side-by-side comparison of?

    I did this, did not like any of those colors and went with the necron compound. Not sure I got all of it out of the bristles from the dry brush after cleaning.

    I only dry brushed the weapons so far but I like it. Dulled the gold pretty well.

    Also did up the right shoulder part, not sure if I should use agrax on it or not.
    JguqdgF.jpg
    0KRykaG.jpg
    uTBUNXf.jpg
    klmQ6bN.jpg
    i9FTG3i.jpg
    2KUNn04.jpg

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
    ExtreaminatusH3Knucklesvalhalla130Khraul
  • Moridin889Moridin889 Registered User regular
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    What is this nonsense ability? I haven't heard of this thing before.
    IIRC it’s called “Mental Onslaught” and the psyker and the target roll off, adding their respective leadership. If the psyker wins, they inflict a mortal wound and roll again. If they lose, the power ends.
    The problem is that genecults have easy access to several leadership modifiers that can buff the psyker or weaken the target to the point that the difference in leadership is so great that the die roll can’t save the target and they suffer unlimited wounds with no redress.

    So it's like the old terror bomb Slaanesh army from WHFB. Just debuff their LD, make them roll 3d6 and take the highest, and then make the whole army rout off the field.

    Yay mechanics.

    Can they use it on any model? Like landraiders and stuff?

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Moridin889 wrote: »
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    What is this nonsense ability? I haven't heard of this thing before.
    IIRC it’s called “Mental Onslaught” and the psyker and the target roll off, adding their respective leadership. If the psyker wins, they inflict a mortal wound and roll again. If they lose, the power ends.
    The problem is that genecults have easy access to several leadership modifiers that can buff the psyker or weaken the target to the point that the difference in leadership is so great that the die roll can’t save the target and they suffer unlimited wounds with no redress.

    So it's like the old terror bomb Slaanesh army from WHFB. Just debuff their LD, make them roll 3d6 and take the highest, and then make the whole army rout off the field.

    Yay mechanics.

    Can they use it on any model? Like landraiders and stuff?

    Anything with a LD score

  • ElaroElaro Mister No Fun AllowedRegistered User regular
    Psychic power, you say? Finally, a use for my grey kni-Hahahahahahahaha, sorry, couldn't do it.

    "Most people don't look at the world through your asshole"
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Is there an easy way to make stencils? I want to put the iron wolf symbol on the left shoulder of my imperial knight but there is no way I can free hand it.

    88sZpUY.jpg

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
    H3Knuckles
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    Technically yes there is but it’s expensive; such things as automatic knives exist for the hobbyist/home crafting market for precisely this sort of thing. You just need a $300 device, some vinyl frisk, and an SVG file.
    The less easy but vastly cheaper (for a one-off at least) method is to get the image copied/printed onto tracing paper, pin it and the mask material to a backboard, and carefully cut around it with a scalpel.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
    honovere
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    Technically yes there is but it’s expensive; such things as automatic knives exist for the hobbyist/home crafting market for precisely this sort of thing. You just need a $300 device, some vinyl frisk, and an SVG file.
    The less easy but vastly cheaper (for a one-off at least) method is to get the image copied/printed onto tracing paper, pin it and the mask material to a backboard, and carefully cut around it with a scalpel.

    Gonna have to try the cheap option. I might also ask my friend who used to draw a lot if he might be able to free hand it.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • NorgothNorgoth cardiffRegistered User regular
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    What is this nonsense ability? I haven't heard of this thing before.
    IIRC it’s called “Mental Onslaught” and the psyker and the target roll off, adding their respective leadership. If the psyker wins, they inflict a mortal wound and roll again. If they lose, the power ends.
    The problem is that genecults have easy access to several leadership modifiers that can buff the psyker or weaken the target to the point that the difference in leadership is so great that the die roll can’t save the target and they suffer unlimited wounds with no redress.

    Easy fix, just have the power ignore modifiers.

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    You could also limit the maximum damage capacity or, my favourite, make each subsequent attempt harder for the psyker by -1 or something.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
    H3Knuckles
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    even a "natural 1 always fails" would be okay I think.

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Just turn it into the Eldar's Mind War. Both of you roll a die, add your leadership, target takes the difference between the results as Mortal Wounds.

    italianranmaH3Knuckles
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    So, yeah, more or less anything except the one they actually published…

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
    DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    Just turn it into the Eldar's Mind War. Both of you roll a die, add your leadership, target takes the difference between the results as Mortal Wounds.

    This is how the Grey Knights version of this power works as well, and the Space Marine version is even more tame, if you win the LD difference roll off you deal d3 mortal wounds.

    There's a noticeable trend of many newer chapter/warlord traits, relics, psychic powers and strategems being strictly superior to previous versions of the exact same ability found in other books, sometimes outright doing the effects of two previous traits in one.

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    Burnage wrote: »
    Just turn it into the Eldar's Mind War. Both of you roll a die, add your leadership, target takes the difference between the results as Mortal Wounds.

    This is how the Grey Knights version of this power works as well, and the Space Marine version is even more tame, if you win the LD difference roll off you deal d3 mortal wounds.

    There's a noticeable trend of many newer chapter/warlord traits, relics, psychic powers and strategems being strictly superior to previous versions of the exact same ability found in other books, sometimes outright doing the effects of two previous traits in one.

    it's the same as knight's Death Grip, but there aren't ways to decrease opponents strength and even a strength 3 model can tie a strength 8 knight and end the checks

    it's just a very dumb thing that was caught by players immediately and should've been faq'd away

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Speaking of FAQs.

    GW is being very slow with the new big FAQ.

    03x29di.png
    italianranmaKetBra
  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    I blame Genestealers. The robot wasn’t a robot after all...

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited April 17
    It's not that easy a gimmick though, with a Patriarch having Ld10 and a Knight Castellan having LD9 you need:

    1. Patriarch (+ Familar and Cursling to reliably get the power off) within 18" of the Knight. Fairly easy. He then takes generic "Inspiring Leader" warlord trait from the rulebook as +1Ld and the Crouchling Familiar. (11 vs 9)
    2. Locus within 6" of the Knight - little trickier without strats, but you could pay 2CP to get lying in wait and deploy within 3". He debuffs enemy LD. (11 vs 8)
    3. Clamavus within 6" of the Patriarch - gets a boost of +1LD, and +1 to charge against something else. Pretty useful guy to take here anyway. (12 vs 8)
    4. Iconward in a Deliverance Broodsurge detachment (1CP) - he spends another 1CP to get the Grandsire's blood relic for +1 LD within 6" (13 vs 8)
    5. Primaris Psyker in a Brood Brothers detachment within 18" of the Knight (note he can't infiltrate or deepstrike on his own). He takes Terrifying Visions power to get -2Ld on the targat (13 vs 6 - Autolose!)

    So you then need to spend 4CP, then pass a Psychic test on a 5 (Mental Onslaught with a buffed Patriarch) having done a Psychic test on a 7 to get Visions off first. Gives a 48% chance of success, 65 if you use a reroll, before taking any Deny rolls into account*
    It's also 310+ points, but the units are generally pretty useful ones. 3 HQ and two Elite, 2+ detachments.

    *Normal 2D6 deny would have the first get through only 55% of the time, giving a total chance of 35% if they have some kind of psychic defence. If they get a chance to deny both, then you're going to be in the region of a 1 in 6 chance of getting the power off at all.

    So with a bit of luck and some preparation against someone who's never seen this before and is unaware of it - you can pull it off. You're never going to win a tournament using this as a key part of your strategy though, but I guess the flipside is that you can find other uses for the components and save it for when the time is just perfect. Which is pretty genestealery...

    Tastyfish on
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    You're never going to win a tournament using this as a key part of your strategy though

    A player using this strategy literally just came 2nd at the Dallas Open this weekend with zero losses or draws.

  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    It's not that easy a gimmick though, with a Patriarch having Ld10 and a Knight Castellan having LD9 you need:

    1. Patriarch (+ Familar and Cursling to reliably get the power off) within 18" of the Knight. Fairly easy. He then takes generic "Inspiring Leader" warlord trait from the rulebook as +1Ld and the Crouchling Familiar. (11 vs 9)
    2. Locus within 6" of the Knight - little trickier without strats, but you could pay 2CP to get lying in wait and deploy within 3". He debuffs enemy LD. (11 vs 8)
    3. Clamavus within 6" of the Patriarch - gets a boost of +1LD, and +1 to charge against something else. Pretty useful guy to take here anyway. (12 vs 8)
    4. Iconward in a Deliverance Broodsurge detachment (1CP) - he spends another 1CP to get the Grandsire's blood relic for +1 LD within 6" (13 vs 8)
    5. Primaris Psyker in a Brood Brothers detachment within 18" of the Knight (note he can't infiltrate or deepstrike on his own). He takes Terrifying Visions power to get -2Ld on the targat (13 vs 6 - Autolose!)

    So you then need to spend 4CP, then pass a Psychic test on a 5 (Mental Onslaught with a buffed Patriarch) having done a Psychic test on a 7 to get Visions off first. Gives a 48% chance of success, 65 if you use a reroll, before taking any Deny rolls into account*
    It's also 310+ points, but the units are generally pretty useful ones. 3 HQ and two Elite, 2+ detachments.

    *Normal 2D6 deny would have the first get through only 55% of the time, giving a total chance of 35% if they have some kind of psychic defence. If they get a chance to deny both, then you're going to be in the region of a 1 in 6 chance of getting the power off at all.

    So with a bit of luck and some preparation against someone who's never seen this before and is unaware of it - you can pull it off. You're never going to win a tournament using this as a key part of your strategy though, but I guess the flipside is that you can find other uses for the components and save it for when the time is just perfect. Which is pretty genestealery...

    somebody literally placed in a tournament using it

    and any rate, killing a knight is the outside possibility, the bigger threat is that it can be used to remove pretty much any model on the board with little recourse

  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited April 17
    Burnage wrote: »
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    You're never going to win a tournament using this as a key part of your strategy though

    A player using this strategy literally just came 2nd at the Dallas Open this weekend with zero losses or draws.

    And I bet it wasn't the main focus of the list/strategy, but a tool they could draw upon against a specific opponent. It's not reliable enough to win tournaments, even if you win a tournament using it.
    Same odds as winning because you seized the initiative and the opponent deployed assuming you couldn't.

    Little recourse? Have to be able to get a Locus in 6" and have no deny capability (also prevents you using Lying in Wait on more useful things). And even then it'll work 1 in 3 times, so you've got to position everyone so that they are set for that outcome too. Plus Imperials have access to Scyerskull or Auspex to shoot deepstrikers, or Infiltrators to push the range out to 12" (and buckets of chances to Deny), Tau get no Deny but with Genestealer cult as an army a tournament list will need some EWO's anyway and the T3 4W 5+ Locus will be the closest available target, Eldar can use Agents of Vect to prevent the Locus appearing. Less sure on the other armies, but there's definitely mitigation against a combo of two psychic powers, 4 deepstriking units and one regular one plus a stratagem. It's like Fool's Mate in Chess.

    Would have thought with 300+pts and 4CP, not a lot you can't kill at those odds.

    Tastyfish on
    TheColonel
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    You don't need all the pieces against most targets though, there are plenty of vehicles in the 6-8 LD range that you can blow up or grievously wound and it only costs you a few CP to do it.

    The cost in CP is of course completely meaningless in a faction that can so easily form battalions and brigades.

    Norgoth
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    If we're being flexible with CP, and accepting that 4-6 is not trivial but not so costly you'll reconsider - then we're comparing this damage output to 15 Hammer Aberrants deploying 9-D6" and getting +1" to charge, fighting twice. 10pts cheaper but 2CP more.

    Also as the vehicle's get cheaper, they're moving into the 150pt range where you'll generally find that a unit that is twice the price of the target will usually kill it with no casualties (assuming the aggressor is the right type to hurt the defender - AT vs AT and AP vs AP etc). But even then - if you're LD8 you can save 2 CP by not taking the Locus, you still need to get two psychic powers off and be in range. The two successful non-denied psychics is the main hurdle to this being a no-brainer strategy.

    Single deny means we're still talking a 1 in 6 chance - trickier for Tau admittedly, but everyone else is still in the game. Two options to deny? Less likely to happen in a six game tournament than not, even with perfect positioning from the Genestealer player into openings left by his opponent. It's something I could see coming in as a final dramatic blow, but if you can pull it off, you'd have won anyway.

    I'm not saying it's rubbish, just looks way better on paper than it does in practice. It's a lot of points, a lot of sacrificed synergy elsewhere and reliant on positioning. There's some situations where getting this power off in this will win you a game, but that's a small niche and reliant on luck. There's a bigger effect in that you need to counter this in deployment or army build - but in the same way that including the combo of units to get Mental Onslaught off isn't that restrictive in a tournament list. The counters - screens for a knight and some kind of psychic defence, are hardly specific to this list either.

    It's very easy to shut this list down, and most tournament lists will be doing that anyway.

    TheColonel
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