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[WH40K] Vigilus? But you barely know us!

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Posts

  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    The Ambul preview is up
    https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/02/10/pre-order-next-week-the-dreaded-ambull/

    I am curious how much it will be and since it has the rules for it in 40k bundled with it you can do some crazy stuff in kill team with it

  • DayspringDayspring the Phoenician Registered User regular
    As an Eldar player with all 3 types, Ynnari needs to be put in the trash, then done as a proper stand alone force.
    I'm betting that's what happens. The last Eldar releases were the Y trio, then before that the plastic Jetbikes and plastic Wracks, right? I'm betting Ynnari relaunches as a whole new faction, with "Aspects but better" as new kits, Primaris style.

  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    I like the ideal of the Ynnari but I feel they need a lot of help figuring out what that army is as it's too easy to cherry pick from the 3 lists to build your force



    I know much of what was new when I quit playing for a time is still there for the aeldari. My brother makes fun of how much of my force was new when he was in Junior high.

    I don't want a primaris like relaunch for the Aeldari. I want new models which I feel will come out when the Ynnari book is out

    No-Quarter
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    the phoenix lord models were around when I was in middle school

    I'm 33 now

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  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    I need that Mecha Ambull to be released so I can convert it into something Orky

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
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  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Played my friends Custodes with my Space Wolves and they are so difficult to kill. I was doing good at the start with my pound puppy, my 6 Thunderwolves and my wulfen but the 4 wounds and high toughness made a chunk of my army not great against the Custodes.

    I ended up losing, pretty much tabled at the end of turn 4.

    Not sure what I can build to take them down but i don't think a battalion is going to work out.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    the phoenix lord models were around when I was in middle school

    I'm 33 now

    Shaddup you whippersnapper! Why I remember the day when both sides of the Horus Heresey relied heavily on robot troops in order to limit human casualties and - Oh god, my lumbago is acting up!

    KhraulTheColonelvalhalla130
  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Well I'll definitely be buying some of the new Primaris Eliminator models. Great sculpts. The Vanguard Librarian is an amazing sculpt as well.

    I hope the Eliminators get kill team rules, I'd love to ruin a kill team of them.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Stragint wrote: »
    I've seen that a Space Wolves slam captain can hit on 2s with a thunder hammer but I don't see how.

    What am I missing?

    Wolves gain a +1 to hit on the turn they charge, are charged, or heroically intervene.

    A Wolf slam captain has a base ws of 2+ that has a -1 from the hammer and then gains a +1 in that first round of combat so he hits on 2+.

    Edit: The reason that BA's are still the best is they have an artifact thunderhammer with out the -1 and does 4D instead of 3D and they get a +1 to wound instead of hit meaning they wounding everything in the game pretty much on a 3+ or 2+ while hitting on 2+1 re-rolling 1s.

    On top of all the charge/deep strike shenanigans.

    Thank you, don't know why I didn't see that rule.

    My pound puppy was pretty awesome against Custodes until he got all 6 hits and then whiffed all but 1 on the wound roll.

    Custodes are rough.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    In a game we played with the tiny force of custodes we have they tore threw a necron monolith like it was nothing

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Allies is one area where it seems like GW didn't think through any of the ramifications. It's basically just take what you want as long as things share a keyword. No consideration of CPs, relics, varying availability of allies, etc.

  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Allies is one area where it seems like GW didn't think through any of the ramifications. It's basically just take what you want as long as things share a keyword. No consideration of CPs, relics, varying availability of allies, etc.

    I have this strong sense that GW's rules writers don't play or understand the game in the cutthroat way that a lot of their players (especially competitive ones) do. Allies are a way to play fluffy lists with more variety, not a way to break the game by taking advantage of interactions and the most powerful units.

    I dunno if that's an overly harsh characterisation but they've definitely been pushing towards the open/narrative play models in recent years.

    italianranmaKhraulvalhalla130
  • SmokeStacksSmokeStacks The Myth, the Legend, the Bowman, the Shambler FuckerRegistered User regular
    The thing that bothers me about the rules writers is that every time new rules get released the competitive/tournament scene finds a way to abuse the shit out of something, so the rules team panics and does some sort of sweeping change to matched play rules to "fix" the issue, which impacts a bunch of other things that aren't being abused and likely breaks something, and then the cycle repeats. I wish there was some sort of distinction between people who are trying to min/max their netlists to cheese tournaments and people who just want to play fun games at their local LGS but who also prefer to use points and battle forged armies while they do so.

    I really like the concept of allies when they're used for fun or fluff and not just the same Imperial Guard command point spam detachment that everyone runs. My fear is that GW will eventually get around to making a change to try and mitigate the IG CP battery but instead of fixing the problem they'll make some blanket changes that will bork allies for everyone, including players who don't abuse it.

    I think it would have been better to explore giving armies a flat CP amount based on their points cost (you have X CP at 500 points, Y at 1,000 points, Z at 1,500 points, etc) and then balance the individual army strategem costs instead of the current system where a player might start with 2-3 times as many CP as their opponent when both of them are at the same points cost.

    73CQcJZ.png
    Khraul
  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    EZ-fix: Detachments that contain models which don’t share at least two faction keywords with your Warlord only generate half CP (this is a more general form of part of the Brood Brothers rule) in Matched Play, except for Auxiliary Detacments.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
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    No-Quarter
  • KhraulKhraul Registered User regular
    I mean, I think the best option would be for GW to acknowledge that the problems exist and to tacitly allow major tournament runners to do things like "Your army can only use strats from their warlords detachment" or "CP can only be used by a detachment that generates it".

    There should probably be different rulesets for tournament circuit stuff, leaving narrative and regular matched play at the LGS alone.... call it "Matched Play ++" or something

    Bnet - Khraul#1822
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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Allies is one area where it seems like GW didn't think through any of the ramifications. It's basically just take what you want as long as things share a keyword. No consideration of CPs, relics, varying availability of allies, etc.

    I have this strong sense that GW's rules writers don't play or understand the game in the cutthroat way that a lot of their players (especially competitive ones) do. Allies are a way to play fluffy lists with more variety, not a way to break the game by taking advantage of interactions and the most powerful units.

    I dunno if that's an overly harsh characterisation but they've definitely been pushing towards the open/narrative play models in recent years.

    I'd agree, except that this sort of thing has been a bit of an ongoing problem for years. Every edition there's something that's completely out of whack with things, and it just seems less like they don't understand how the more competitive types play and more like they don't care. Which is fine and all, their game, their rules. Just strange that they're willing to make certain changes via Chapter Approved and FAQs, but seem to be ignoring certain elements that are generally considered to be problems.

    valhalla130
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    I was at the mega Warhammer store in Dallas and noticed something interesting. They're no longer stocking tactical Marines on the shelves. It's not that they were out, and I'm sure you can order them, but they are REAL clearly phasing them out by not giving them shelf space.

    What is this I don't even.
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Allies is one area where it seems like GW didn't think through any of the ramifications. It's basically just take what you want as long as things share a keyword. No consideration of CPs, relics, varying availability of allies, etc.

    I have this strong sense that GW's rules writers don't play or understand the game in the cutthroat way that a lot of their players (especially competitive ones) do. Allies are a way to play fluffy lists with more variety, not a way to break the game by taking advantage of interactions and the most powerful units.

    I dunno if that's an overly harsh characterisation but they've definitely been pushing towards the open/narrative play models in recent years.

    It's always been that way. The British players and design team play Beerhammer and have always been baffled by the American need to out-peenzor each other. It was something we discussed at the corporate level when I worked there in ages lost to darkness. Originally they just ignored the hyper competitive scene, but as it's grown in importance to sales they've had to make concessions.

    What is this I don't even.
    BurnageTheColonelvalhalla130
  • novaspikenovaspike Registered User regular
    Mixing discussions here, but the balance concerns are one reason why I keep playing warmachine as my primary wargame.

    I'm kinda in the camp that if game rules are tight and balanced enough for hyper-competitive play then casual games are better too.

    That being said, new GW does a significantly better job of trying to fix things then in days past. I think stuff like allies just keep getting patch fixes because they want it in the game (design wise), but don't know how to balance its inclusion to begin with.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Again after playing a shit ton of 8th from hyper competitive prep games for the NoVA GT to escalation leagues with power level to a story campaign with points and varied missions to a ton of 2k match play both maelstrom and eternal war. 8th is pretty damn balanced and outside a few specific list 90% of the games re very close and a ton of fun.

    And I think the biggest issue with knights and guard is they just abuse the edges. And that is what a lot of top competitive play is.

    I do also think a lot of the old beerhammer/hyper competitive lines are more blurred now. GW is at the major ITC events like BAO, LVO, NOVA and so on. They are running their own competitive scene. And they have brought in a bunch of the highest level competitive American players as play testers.

    Their bigger issue is being tied to print more than anything. What we learned with this CA2018 is it was written in 9 months before release. And that is tied to printing. A shift and focus on less physical and more digital would cut that time down a lot. I think that would help a bunch. Because 9 months before release DE were not out properly and the Knight/Guard/Special Sauce list wasn't out and about for another 2-3 months.

    And again for all the grumbling, we are seeing fixes going from 2 years to never to 3-6 months but sometimes down to 2 weeks.

    03x29di.png
    BizazedoDarkewolfe
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    I wonder what the sales are for CA and if they can move from print. It feels like they should be able to, but....

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Bizazedo wrote: »
    I wonder what the sales are for CA and if they can move from print. It feels like they should be able to, but....

    Wargamers are beast of comfort. Change is scary.

    I will admit I like physical copies of my codices and I have both CAs. I like physical books.

    03x29di.png
    GnomeTankitalianranmavalhalla130Khraul
  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    I liked physical books until I needed to potentially carry seven of the damn things around to play one army.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    I've played 40K off and on since Rogue Trader. GW has always looked at ultra competitive 40K as a fun thing some people do, but not the core of what 40K is. That's why huge sections of all the books are taken up by narrative and open play. It's basically always been this way. GW is happy that competitive play moves models, but they've always wanted to keep it at arms length. Of course this is the "new GW", and things like Kill Team Arena may signal that they are more interested in wading in to the tournament side of the game, given that Arena is basically a competitive play organizers kit they are selling ti players.

    I wouldn't hold your breath for 40K to become Warmachine though. GW is generally going to let cool fluff and narrative win out over balance at the top end of play.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    I will say the old statement on GW and competitive isn't true anymore. It will not be Warmachine but it isn't the old 40k. And GW does see the competitive scene as a scene they not only must participate in but they must incorporate in their rules. There was over 1200 40k players at the LVO. They had up to 5k people on twitch watching the stream. They have brought in the competitive players into their testing of the rules.

    The fluff and narrative will always play a huge part. And the variety will probably stay there. But it isn't the GW of 5th, 6th, or even 7th. They have shown a huge willingness to let the competitive scene influence the rest of the game.

    03x29di.png
  • TIFunkaliciousTIFunkalicious Kicking back in NebraskaRegistered User regular
    Every ravenwing dark shroud I've ever seen is missing the little sword from the statue because it's so easy to break

    Good to know mine fits in now

    italianranma
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    One of the main opponents I play against is an Imperial Guard guy. He picked them way before their power was known, so no problem there. He just messaged me saying LVO winner used the Vigilus detachment that he used against my Daemons / Death Guard army recently and apologized lol.

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  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    What units are good to use in my Space Wolves to fight against Custodes? My Wulfen put out some serious hurt but my Thunderwolves weren't as strong but that might be because one group of 3 had no thunder hammers and the other 3 had 2.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    Stragint wrote: »
    What units are good to use in my Space Wolves to fight against Custodes? My Wulfen put out some serious hurt but my Thunderwolves weren't as strong but that might be because one group of 3 had no thunder hammers and the other 3 had 2.

    anything that does mortal wounds or multiple wounds

  • Mr_RoseMr_Rose 83 Blue Ridge Protects the Holy Registered User regular
    Plasma Hellblasters.
    What I want for the next Wolf Codex is Frost Rifle Helblaters, just because.

    ...because dragons are AWESOME! That's why.
    Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
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    Stragint
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    So a squad of 10 Hellblasters with the rapid fire plasma gun and a squad of 6 Long Fangs including the Pack Leader, 5 multi melta, and a Terminator Wolf Guard with cyclone missile launcher?

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing to Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    EZ-fix: Detachments that contain models which don’t share at least two faction keywords with your Warlord only generate half CP (this is a more general form of part of the Brood Brothers rule) in Matched Play, except for Auxiliary Detacments.

    This.

    I have little problem with someone taking Guard to support tactical options in a list/ in play. I DO have a problem with Loyal 32 cp padding.

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Mr_Rose wrote: »
    EZ-fix: Detachments that contain models which don’t share at least two faction keywords with your Warlord only generate half CP (this is a more general form of part of the Brood Brothers rule) in Matched Play, except for Auxiliary Detacments.

    This.

    I have little problem with someone taking Guard to support tactical options in a list/ in play. I DO have a problem with Loyal 32 cp padding.

    I do think you will still a lot of loyal 32 just because guard get so much for the points. Its a cheap productive screen even if it only provides 3 cp instead of 5. Those 3 cp are still cheaper than most other armies can produce.

    It will help but not a pure fix.

    03x29di.png
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    I don't care about Loyal 32 CP add ons, I care that guardsmen and a couple commanders do a hell of a lot, very durable for their points, but cheap enough to be a throwaway screen, cover a lot of ground, are obj sec troops who can cover a tremendous amount of ground in one turn with Move! Move! Move! and are actually very dangerous for their points with FRFSRF or Catachan melee. All this, and a cheap +5 CP.

    The Castellan and various flavor of Eldar units everyone also knows are too good. I really don't think messing around with how CP are gained and spent in mixed faction armies will accomplish anything, certain units just do too much, GW can raise their points or, as I'd prefer, actually errata their stats to something more reasonable, and that's the only way forward.

    Bizazedo
  • TheGerbilTheGerbil Registered User regular
    So I finally got around to paint stripping, rebasing and putting jetpacks on some of my old metal death company from 2004. They came out okay. I have a box of the newer plastic ones and they are waaaaaayyy more detailed.

    nGsxlzVh.jpg
    sXYGzg3h.jpg
    vygqeWrh.jpg


    IanatorExtreaminatusWatcherNipsNo-QuarterH3Knuckles
  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    The robot casually shows off

    Golden YakH3Knuckles
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    I don't care about Loyal 32 CP add ons, I care that guardsmen and a couple commanders do a hell of a lot, very durable for their points, but cheap enough to be a throwaway screen, cover a lot of ground, are obj sec troops who can cover a tremendous amount of ground in one turn with Move! Move! Move! and are actually very dangerous for their points with FRFSRF or Catachan melee. All this, and a cheap +5 CP.

    The Castellan and various flavor of Eldar units everyone also knows are too good. I really don't think messing around with how CP are gained and spent in mixed faction armies will accomplish anything, certain units just do too much, GW can raise their points or, as I'd prefer, actually errata their stats to something more reasonable, and that's the only way forward.

    Just out of curiosity how would you errata their stats?

    03x29di.png
  • StragintStragint Do Not Gift Always DeclinesRegistered User regular
    Where do I see in the rulebook about which unit types can capture objectives? For some reason I'm not seeing it.

    PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
    What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak

    I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    Stragint wrote: »
    Where do I see in the rulebook about which unit types can capture objectives? For some reason I'm not seeing it.

    All units can capture objectives except for those with the flyer battlefield role per the boots on the ground rule in the FAQs/Chapter Approved.

    Troops in battle forged armies have objective secured meaning they hold an objective over any other unit type no matter how many models there are unless the opposing unit has objective secured and then it is total models with in 3".

    Some missions have unique rules on this, read the mission.

    Mazzyx on
    03x29di.png
  • LanlaornLanlaorn Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Lanlaorn wrote: »
    I don't care about Loyal 32 CP add ons, I care that guardsmen and a couple commanders do a hell of a lot, very durable for their points, but cheap enough to be a throwaway screen, cover a lot of ground, are obj sec troops who can cover a tremendous amount of ground in one turn with Move! Move! Move! and are actually very dangerous for their points with FRFSRF or Catachan melee. All this, and a cheap +5 CP.

    The Castellan and various flavor of Eldar units everyone also knows are too good. I really don't think messing around with how CP are gained and spent in mixed faction armies will accomplish anything, certain units just do too much, GW can raise their points or, as I'd prefer, actually errata their stats to something more reasonable, and that's the only way forward.

    Just out of curiosity how would you errata their stats?

    Guardsmen I'd actually leave alone statwise but make Marines, Terminators, etc. dramatically better; more wounds, move faster, ignore some AP, better BS or fire more shots, etc., guardsmen basically epitomize the chaff vs. elite problem and I'd rather GW fixes that by making elite units feel elite. Orders may need a psychic power style test vs. the target unit's leadership, as they're extremely strong for being completely free. Compare to the new Sisters Faith system where you spend limited resources to make difficult tests to get weaker effects. On the topic of guard units in general all the indirect fire needs a ballistic skill penalty, say -2 when firing with no LoS at all, -1 when you have another unit as a spotter.

    But the Castellan can stand to be a lot weaker. First off, the warlord trait and relic that give a 4++ invuln and 2+ armor save respectively need to go. Both are ridiculous, but especially the invuln save that then goes to 3++ with RIS. Next, IMO simply lower the wounds and number of guns on the damn thing. I'd ballpark around 20 wounds and only two siegebreaker cannons plus the main guns. To match the model you can halve the number of shots on each siegebreaker instead. The other knights are obnoxious, but at least they're generally coming up the field and expose themselves to more shooting and/or melee, the huge pile of wounds just killing anything it can see from four to five feet away is too safe for what it does.

    For Eldar units I think in general everyone can agree -1 to hit modifiers need to go, it's the best defensive ability in the game and it tends to be spread out liberally among units that also have great invuln saves and the ability to stack further -1 penalties with craftworld or strategem, and that Haywire guns are complete bullshit, just completely remove the mortal wounds and have them always wound vehicles on a 4+ and finally that Ynnari Soul Burst needs to go. Just drop it entirely until you can revisit the idea in a codex. After that it's a lot of case by case stuff, say break dark eldar disintegraters (maybe 1 damage each?), tweak many psychic powers (Jynx & Doom especially)

    Anyway everything IMO and off the cuff with a few minutes bored at work

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