The concept of being tempered by Hydaelyn and what that means and where you go from there becomes even more interesting when you discover that Midgarsormr was able to break your bond with Hydaelyn pretty easily; which could mean that there's a way to reverse the process.
Yeah, but Midgardsormr is basically a god himself.
Though it's an interesting point, as the end result of that was WoL reforging the connection on their own power, which raises the question of whether it's already something else entirely.
Idk if they got into this, but Midgardsommr was around pre-split, right? So how did that work with the split? I assume he was like some of the Ascians and didn't split, so the source version is the true version of him. But did he have offspring at that point? Did they split? Is/was there a dragon society on the First or the other fragments?
What of Ryne? Does she have the Echo? (Possibly? We know she has the Blessing of Light, but that seems to be different?) How does that all relate to this? She inherited Minfilia's power as Voice of the Mother to a degree, but not her knowledge I think?
Idk if they got into this, but Midgardsommr was around pre-split, right? So how did that work with the split? I assume he was like some of the Ascians and didn't split, so the source version is the true version of him. But did he have offspring at that point? Did they split? Is/was there a dragon society on the First or the other fragments?
He may have existed pre-split but he didn't come to the source until after the split and fathered his brood there.
There are some interesting and disturbing revalations in Shadowbringers that I personally think would make for some great drama going forward, especially when combined with how the WoL tends to act even if that is largely due to constraints in how the game is built.
Don't click this unless you have finished ShB, like seriously.
With Hydaelyn being a primal chances are that we've gotten ourselves tempered and now she's riding our asses around like a rented mule.
Is it really tempering if you're born that way?
Though the actual link there seems qualitatively different from tempering. WoL isn't worshipping and feeding her crystals at every opportunity.
Minfilia did the thing of her own free will even. And still maintained her self after (while also being turned into an avatar of Hydaelyn, granted).
Although its also probably worth noting that Hydaelyn and Zodiark weren't created as religious idols, but more as systems for a specific purpose. Zodiark is a wish granting machine that runs on blood sacrifice. Hydaelyn is a Zodiark-smashing machine.
I think it becomes a matter of semantics, if Hydaelyn so chose they could enforce their will on you.
I'm hoping we get to a point where something like that happens. Up until now you've been doing things that benefit them. It would be cool if something happened where Hydaelyn is all "Do it, take the shot!" and we're all "You don't pay my sub!" and then they're all "Homie, I AM YOUR SUB" we have to fight Hydaelyn or something.
One problem with that
is that they tied gameplay mechanics such as wiping/resurrecting between fight attempts to the story, e.g. it's granted by our Echo. Since Hydaelyn gave us our Echo, if we were to have to oppose her they'd need a really convincing way of writing around this, unless they just flat out say that the Echo is not something that can just be taken away once granted.
There are some interesting and disturbing revalations in Shadowbringers that I personally think would make for some great drama going forward, especially when combined with how the WoL tends to act even if that is largely due to constraints in how the game is built.
Don't click this unless you have finished ShB, like seriously.
With Hydaelyn being a primal chances are that we've gotten ourselves tempered and now she's riding our asses around like a rented mule.
Is it really tempering if you're born that way?
Though the actual link there seems qualitatively different from tempering. WoL isn't worshipping and feeding her crystals at every opportunity.
Minfilia did the thing of her own free will even. And still maintained her self after (while also being turned into an avatar of Hydaelyn, granted).
Although its also probably worth noting that Hydaelyn and Zodiark weren't created as religious idols, but more as systems for a specific purpose. Zodiark is a wish granting machine that runs on blood sacrifice. Hydaelyn is a Zodiark-smashing machine.
I think it becomes a matter of semantics, if Hydaelyn so chose they could enforce their will on you.
I'm hoping we get to a point where something like that happens. Up until now you've been doing things that benefit them. It would be cool if something happened where Hydaelyn is all "Do it, take the shot!" and we're all "You don't pay my sub!" and then they're all "Homie, I AM YOUR SUB" we have to fight Hydaelyn or something.
One problem with that
is that they tied gameplay mechanics such as wiping/resurrecting between fight attempts to the story, e.g. it's granted by our Echo. Since Hydaelyn gave us our Echo, if we were to have to oppose her they'd need a really convincing way of writing around this, unless they just flat out say that the Echo is not something that can just be taken away once granted.
Echo is distinct from the link to Hydaelyn, see the Resonant bit. Zeno is (probably) not linked to either... though I could see an argument that copying Krile's Echo linked him and so now oops hes going to start opposing Ascians automatically...
Idk if they got into this, but Midgardsommr was around pre-split, right? So how did that work with the split? I assume he was like some of the Ascians and didn't split, so the source version is the true version of him. But did he have offspring at that point? Did they split? Is/was there a dragon society on the First or the other fragments?
He may have existed pre-split but he didn't come to the source until after the split and fathered his brood there.
Hm. I guess I'm kind of confused about how space and stuff works in this. I assumed, I guess, that the source and fragments were like, the entire universe split into a multiverse, basically.
Did Midgardsormr come from like, another planet in space or whatever? That's what it sounded like with the whole Omega thing last xpac. Is it just assumed that everything split unless otherwise specified?
Idk if they got into this, but Midgardsommr was around pre-split, right? So how did that work with the split? I assume he was like some of the Ascians and didn't split, so the source version is the true version of him. But did he have offspring at that point? Did they split? Is/was there a dragon society on the First or the other fragments?
He may have existed pre-split but he didn't come to the source until after the split and fathered his brood there.
Hm. I guess I'm kind of confused about how space and stuff works in this. I assumed, I guess, that the source and fragments were like, the entire universe split into a multiverse, basically.
Did Midgardsormr come from like, another planet in space or whatever? That's what it sounded like with the whole Omega thing last xpac. Is it just assumed that everything split unless otherwise specified?
Source is just the name for 'our' home system. The fracturing of the Source only consisted of splitting this one planet into several lesser copies of itself. There are still plenty of other star systems in the universe besides the one we're on, and Midgardsormr/Omega both come from a distant star - Midgardsormr leaving in the wake of their planet's death and Omega chasing after him.
There are some interesting and disturbing revalations in Shadowbringers that I personally think would make for some great drama going forward, especially when combined with how the WoL tends to act even if that is largely due to constraints in how the game is built.
Don't click this unless you have finished ShB, like seriously.
With Hydaelyn being a primal chances are that we've gotten ourselves tempered and now she's riding our asses around like a rented mule.
Is it really tempering if you're born that way?
Though the actual link there seems qualitatively different from tempering. WoL isn't worshipping and feeding her crystals at every opportunity.
Minfilia did the thing of her own free will even. And still maintained her self after (while also being turned into an avatar of Hydaelyn, granted).
Although its also probably worth noting that Hydaelyn and Zodiark weren't created as religious idols, but more as systems for a specific purpose. Zodiark is a wish granting machine that runs on blood sacrifice. Hydaelyn is a Zodiark-smashing machine.
I think it becomes a matter of semantics, if Hydaelyn so chose they could enforce their will on you.
I'm hoping we get to a point where something like that happens. Up until now you've been doing things that benefit them. It would be cool if something happened where Hydaelyn is all "Do it, take the shot!" and we're all "You don't pay my sub!" and then they're all "Homie, I AM YOUR SUB" we have to fight Hydaelyn or something.
One problem with that
is that they tied gameplay mechanics such as wiping/resurrecting between fight attempts to the story, e.g. it's granted by our Echo. Since Hydaelyn gave us our Echo, if we were to have to oppose her they'd need a really convincing way of writing around this, unless they just flat out say that the Echo is not something that can just be taken away once granted.
Echo is distinct from the link to Hydaelyn, see the Resonant bit. Zeno is (probably) not linked to either... though I could see an argument that copying Krile's Echo linked him and so now oops hes going to start opposing Ascians automatically...
The Echo is not related to the Blessing of Light, the WoL just happened to manifest their Echo when you gain your first crystal, however, they've made it clear that these are completely different concepts. We've seen other characters with the Echo who likely don't have any Blessing at all (Krile) and we know the Ascians have the Echo as well. In fact, they encourage you to master it so you can see "who they really are." As of Stormblood, we also know that the Echo can be artificially created. We've also seen the Echo manifest in the sahagin.
If the Echo were tied at all to the Blessing of Light we would have lost it as well when Midgardsormr took the Blessing from us, which we definitely didn't.
Idk if they got into this, but Midgardsommr was around pre-split, right? So how did that work with the split? I assume he was like some of the Ascians and didn't split, so the source version is the true version of him. But did he have offspring at that point? Did they split? Is/was there a dragon society on the First or the other fragments?
He may have existed pre-split but he didn't come to the source until after the split and fathered his brood there.
Hm. I guess I'm kind of confused about how space and stuff works in this. I assumed, I guess, that the source and fragments were like, the entire universe split into a multiverse, basically.
Did Midgardsormr come from like, another planet in space or whatever? That's what it sounded like with the whole Omega thing last xpac. Is it just assumed that everything split unless otherwise specified?
Source is just the name for 'our' home system. The fracturing of the Source only consisted of splitting this one planet into several lesser copies of itself. There are still plenty of other star systems in the universe besides the one we're on, and Midgardsormr/Omega both come from a distant star - Midgardsormr leaving in the wake of their planet's death and Omega chasing after him.
I guess I'm confused about where the copies exist then. Like, there are stars visible from the first, so they're obviously still in some sort of universe. If it's the whole universe that got split, that makes sense, but if not, then what is out there beyond their star system? If the normal universe was unchanged by the source splitting and anyone coming from outside the star end up going to the source, where does that put the copies and what are they seeing?
Idk if they got into this, but Midgardsommr was around pre-split, right? So how did that work with the split? I assume he was like some of the Ascians and didn't split, so the source version is the true version of him. But did he have offspring at that point? Did they split? Is/was there a dragon society on the First or the other fragments?
He may have existed pre-split but he didn't come to the source until after the split and fathered his brood there.
Hm. I guess I'm kind of confused about how space and stuff works in this. I assumed, I guess, that the source and fragments were like, the entire universe split into a multiverse, basically.
Did Midgardsormr come from like, another planet in space or whatever? That's what it sounded like with the whole Omega thing last xpac. Is it just assumed that everything split unless otherwise specified?
Source is just the name for 'our' home system. The fracturing of the Source only consisted of splitting this one planet into several lesser copies of itself. There are still plenty of other star systems in the universe besides the one we're on, and Midgardsormr/Omega both come from a distant star - Midgardsormr leaving in the wake of their planet's death and Omega chasing after him.
I guess I'm confused about where the copies exist then. Like, there are stars visible from the first, so they're obviously still in some sort of universe. If it's the whole universe that got split, that makes sense, but if not, then what is out there beyond their star system? If the normal universe was unchanged by the source splitting and anyone coming from outside the star end up going to the source, where does that put the copies and what are they seeing?
Idk if they got into this, but Midgardsommr was around pre-split, right? So how did that work with the split? I assume he was like some of the Ascians and didn't split, so the source version is the true version of him. But did he have offspring at that point? Did they split? Is/was there a dragon society on the First or the other fragments?
He may have existed pre-split but he didn't come to the source until after the split and fathered his brood there.
Hm. I guess I'm kind of confused about how space and stuff works in this. I assumed, I guess, that the source and fragments were like, the entire universe split into a multiverse, basically.
Did Midgardsormr come from like, another planet in space or whatever? That's what it sounded like with the whole Omega thing last xpac. Is it just assumed that everything split unless otherwise specified?
Source is just the name for 'our' home system. The fracturing of the Source only consisted of splitting this one planet into several lesser copies of itself. There are still plenty of other star systems in the universe besides the one we're on, and Midgardsormr/Omega both come from a distant star - Midgardsormr leaving in the wake of their planet's death and Omega chasing after him.
I guess I'm confused about where the copies exist then. Like, there are stars visible from the first, so they're obviously still in some sort of universe. If it's the whole universe that got split, that makes sense, but if not, then what is out there beyond their star system? If the normal universe was unchanged by the source splitting and anyone coming from outside the star end up going to the source, where does that put the copies and what are they seeing?
My current take is that the Source exists in what can be termed the "normal universe" in which other planets and stuff exist, but the shards exist in their own "pocket universes" where they're the only planet that exists.
Most of this comes from my interpretation on the term "the Source" which to me implies that everything splintered from that one point. But as Donnicton said, there's no real explanation so far. And other than Midgardsormr and Omega we haven't had any other aliens and those 2 weren't exactly explained thoroughly either
There are some interesting and disturbing revalations in Shadowbringers that I personally think would make for some great drama going forward, especially when combined with how the WoL tends to act even if that is largely due to constraints in how the game is built.
Don't click this unless you have finished ShB, like seriously.
With Hydaelyn being a primal chances are that we've gotten ourselves tempered and now she's riding our asses around like a rented mule.
Is it really tempering if you're born that way?
Though the actual link there seems qualitatively different from tempering. WoL isn't worshipping and feeding her crystals at every opportunity.
Minfilia did the thing of her own free will even. And still maintained her self after (while also being turned into an avatar of Hydaelyn, granted).
Although its also probably worth noting that Hydaelyn and Zodiark weren't created as religious idols, but more as systems for a specific purpose. Zodiark is a wish granting machine that runs on blood sacrifice. Hydaelyn is a Zodiark-smashing machine.
I think it becomes a matter of semantics, if Hydaelyn so chose they could enforce their will on you.
I'm hoping we get to a point where something like that happens. Up until now you've been doing things that benefit them. It would be cool if something happened where Hydaelyn is all "Do it, take the shot!" and we're all "You don't pay my sub!" and then they're all "Homie, I AM YOUR SUB" and then we have to fight Hydaelyn or something.
I think it could be quite cool if as part of a longer arc some of the decisions we've supposedly made on our own gets re-examined and we get to see Hydaelyns influence on those decisions.
Idk if they got into this, but Midgardsommr was around pre-split, right? So how did that work with the split? I assume he was like some of the Ascians and didn't split, so the source version is the true version of him. But did he have offspring at that point? Did they split? Is/was there a dragon society on the First or the other fragments?
He may have existed pre-split but he didn't come to the source until after the split and fathered his brood there.
Hm. I guess I'm kind of confused about how space and stuff works in this. I assumed, I guess, that the source and fragments were like, the entire universe split into a multiverse, basically.
Did Midgardsormr come from like, another planet in space or whatever? That's what it sounded like with the whole Omega thing last xpac. Is it just assumed that everything split unless otherwise specified?
Source is just the name for 'our' home system. The fracturing of the Source only consisted of splitting this one planet into several lesser copies of itself. There are still plenty of other star systems in the universe besides the one we're on, and Midgardsormr/Omega both come from a distant star - Midgardsormr leaving in the wake of their planet's death and Omega chasing after him.
I guess I'm confused about where the copies exist then. Like, there are stars visible from the first, so they're obviously still in some sort of universe. If it's the whole universe that got split, that makes sense, but if not, then what is out there beyond their star system? If the normal universe was unchanged by the source splitting and anyone coming from outside the star end up going to the source, where does that put the copies and what are they seeing?
did you play Metroid Prime 2? It's like that
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SaldonasSee you space cowboy...Registered Userregular
Sorry, there's just so many spoilers on this page.
The other day I was watching old 1.0 cutscenes on youtube and noticed that in the first meeting with Ifrit he tries to temper the WoL, fails, and then asks who already tempered you. Easily explained away if wanted, but it made me raise my eyebrow pretty hard.
Idk if they got into this, but Midgardsommr was around pre-split, right? So how did that work with the split? I assume he was like some of the Ascians and didn't split, so the source version is the true version of him. But did he have offspring at that point? Did they split? Is/was there a dragon society on the First or the other fragments?
He may have existed pre-split but he didn't come to the source until after the split and fathered his brood there.
Hm. I guess I'm kind of confused about how space and stuff works in this. I assumed, I guess, that the source and fragments were like, the entire universe split into a multiverse, basically.
Did Midgardsormr come from like, another planet in space or whatever? That's what it sounded like with the whole Omega thing last xpac. Is it just assumed that everything split unless otherwise specified?
Source is just the name for 'our' home system. The fracturing of the Source only consisted of splitting this one planet into several lesser copies of itself. There are still plenty of other star systems in the universe besides the one we're on, and Midgardsormr/Omega both come from a distant star - Midgardsormr leaving in the wake of their planet's death and Omega chasing after him.
I guess I'm confused about where the copies exist then. Like, there are stars visible from the first, so they're obviously still in some sort of universe. If it's the whole universe that got split, that makes sense, but if not, then what is out there beyond their star system? If the normal universe was unchanged by the source splitting and anyone coming from outside the star end up going to the source, where does that put the copies and what are they seeing?
My current take is that the Source exists in what can be termed the "normal universe" in which other planets and stuff exist, but the shards exist in their own "pocket universes" where they're the only planet that exists.
Most of this comes from my interpretation on the term "the Source" which to me implies that everything splintered from that one point. But as Donnicton said, there's no real explanation so far. And other than Midgardsormr and Omega we haven't had any other aliens and those 2 weren't exactly explained thoroughly either
What more needs explained? I thought we got enough of their story as matters in the raids.
Idk if they got into this, but Midgardsommr was around pre-split, right? So how did that work with the split? I assume he was like some of the Ascians and didn't split, so the source version is the true version of him. But did he have offspring at that point? Did they split? Is/was there a dragon society on the First or the other fragments?
He may have existed pre-split but he didn't come to the source until after the split and fathered his brood there.
Hm. I guess I'm kind of confused about how space and stuff works in this. I assumed, I guess, that the source and fragments were like, the entire universe split into a multiverse, basically.
Did Midgardsormr come from like, another planet in space or whatever? That's what it sounded like with the whole Omega thing last xpac. Is it just assumed that everything split unless otherwise specified?
Source is just the name for 'our' home system. The fracturing of the Source only consisted of splitting this one planet into several lesser copies of itself. There are still plenty of other star systems in the universe besides the one we're on, and Midgardsormr/Omega both come from a distant star - Midgardsormr leaving in the wake of their planet's death and Omega chasing after him.
I guess I'm confused about where the copies exist then. Like, there are stars visible from the first, so they're obviously still in some sort of universe. If it's the whole universe that got split, that makes sense, but if not, then what is out there beyond their star system? If the normal universe was unchanged by the source splitting and anyone coming from outside the star end up going to the source, where does that put the copies and what are they seeing?
My current take is that the Source exists in what can be termed the "normal universe" in which other planets and stuff exist, but the shards exist in their own "pocket universes" where they're the only planet that exists.
Most of this comes from my interpretation on the term "the Source" which to me implies that everything splintered from that one point. But as Donnicton said, there's no real explanation so far. And other than Midgardsormr and Omega we haven't had any other aliens and those 2 weren't exactly explained thoroughly either
What more needs explained? I thought we got enough of their story as matters in the raids.
I wouldn't exactly call "yeah you know transformers? we're kind of like that. Warring space beings that fled here only to continue the same war" a thorough explanation. Sufficient for the purpose of the story sure.
Edit: I should mention that i also meant a more thorough explanation of life on other planets and non-Source planets in general. On top of their origins and planets as a whole, why omega was fighting them, was omega created, by whom, etc etc. Was either of their home planets destroyed, are there other planets with or with life out there?
Idk if they got into this, but Midgardsommr was around pre-split, right? So how did that work with the split? I assume he was like some of the Ascians and didn't split, so the source version is the true version of him. But did he have offspring at that point? Did they split? Is/was there a dragon society on the First or the other fragments?
He may have existed pre-split but he didn't come to the source until after the split and fathered his brood there.
Hm. I guess I'm kind of confused about how space and stuff works in this. I assumed, I guess, that the source and fragments were like, the entire universe split into a multiverse, basically.
Did Midgardsormr come from like, another planet in space or whatever? That's what it sounded like with the whole Omega thing last xpac. Is it just assumed that everything split unless otherwise specified?
Source is just the name for 'our' home system. The fracturing of the Source only consisted of splitting this one planet into several lesser copies of itself. There are still plenty of other star systems in the universe besides the one we're on, and Midgardsormr/Omega both come from a distant star - Midgardsormr leaving in the wake of their planet's death and Omega chasing after him.
I guess I'm confused about where the copies exist then. Like, there are stars visible from the first, so they're obviously still in some sort of universe. If it's the whole universe that got split, that makes sense, but if not, then what is out there beyond their star system? If the normal universe was unchanged by the source splitting and anyone coming from outside the star end up going to the source, where does that put the copies and what are they seeing?
My current take is that the Source exists in what can be termed the "normal universe" in which other planets and stuff exist, but the shards exist in their own "pocket universes" where they're the only planet that exists.
Most of this comes from my interpretation on the term "the Source" which to me implies that everything splintered from that one point. But as Donnicton said, there's no real explanation so far. And other than Midgardsormr and Omega we haven't had any other aliens and those 2 weren't exactly explained thoroughly either
What more needs explained? I thought we got enough of their story as matters in the raids.
I wouldn't exactly call "yeah you know transformers? we're kind of like that. Warring space beings that fled here only to continue the same war" a thorough explanation. Sufficient for the purpose of the story sure.
Omega raids...
Omega was a weapon created for conquest by a warlike star. Eventually it got set against Midgardsormr's star. To escape the conflict, Midgardsormr fled across the void between stars with his unborn brood. Reaching Hydaelyn, he made a pact for shelter (which made it hard for Omega to detect him anymore) and hatched the First Brood.
Omega, having lost Midgardsormr, went to the last location and shut down (being very damaged from the trip). Allagans find it and use it to advance their tech. You know the rest...
Well chores for Magnai done, lore learned, sheeps found, and now they manage to make me dislike them even more.
Not only is Magnai an arrogent asshole willing to abuse his power (also, not really sure how ok using paralysing poison in this contest is), now they reveal him also as a sexist asshole on top of it, also a slaver.
I assume i am now going to be forced to become his friend, for reasons, with no actual option to utterly humiliate him, repeatedly.
Because he is, i guess, somekind of powerful warrior who we need for war effort.
/sigh
Well chores for Magnai done, lore learned, sheeps found, and now they manage to make me dislike them even more.
Not only is Magnai an arrogent asshole willing to abuse his power (also, not really sure how ok using paralysing poison in this contest is), now they reveal him also as a sexist asshole on top of it, also a slaver.
I assume i am now going to be forced to become his friend, for reasons, with no actual option to utterly humiliate him, repeatedly.
Because he is, i guess, somekind of powerful warrior who we need for war effort.
/sigh
Well chores for Magnai done, lore learned, sheeps found, and now they manage to make me dislike them even more.
Not only is Magnai an arrogent asshole willing to abuse his power (also, not really sure how ok using paralysing poison in this contest is), now they reveal him also as a sexist asshole on top of it, also a slaver.
I assume i am now going to be forced to become his friend, for reasons, with no actual option to utterly humiliate him, repeatedly.
Because he is, i guess, somekind of powerful warrior who we need for war effort.
/sigh
No, that will come later.
Well i did not expect it to happen until after the damn combat trials.
I guess i should not complain so much, or just start skipping the story if this is what i have to deal with.
I just get tired of having to deal with people like Magnai and that other sexist clan leader, don't we have enough of them in real life we can do nothing about? Do we have to play nice with them in games as well?
I was actually enjoying the story in the plains until they came along.
Well chores for Magnai done, lore learned, sheeps found, and now they manage to make me dislike them even more.
Not only is Magnai an arrogent asshole willing to abuse his power (also, not really sure how ok using paralysing poison in this contest is), now they reveal him also as a sexist asshole on top of it, also a slaver.
I assume i am now going to be forced to become his friend, for reasons, with no actual option to utterly humiliate him, repeatedly.
Because he is, i guess, somekind of powerful warrior who we need for war effort.
/sigh
No, that will come later.
Well i did not expect it to happen until after the damn combat trials.
I guess i should not complain so much, or just start skipping the story if this is what i have to deal with.
I just get tired of having to deal with people like Magnai and that other sexist clan leader, don't we have enough of them in real life we can do nothing about? Do we have to play nice with them in games as well?
I was actually enjoying the story in the plains until they came along.
It's mostly that I think you're being too unfair to the story in some respects. You're criticizing character actions but attributing it to the overall writing of the game. Or viewing the game having a set narrative and not allowing the player to push it all over and go off doing whatever as a detriment instead of a core concept of the mmo and jrpg genre. This isn't like a DM run dnd game or an open-world rpg video game that can react to player direction outside the presented path.
I don't see it as a fault of the game for having not-great people in positions of power before the WoL comes into the scene, since we do something to shake up the status quo and change that, and it feels more dramatic than coming into a new location and it being totally fine, stable, and ready to help us.
As for Magnai himself, the writing never seems to treat him as being right in the least, that I recall. And I do remember him being humiliated (knocked down a few pegs at least) a couple times by npc's. Heck, the WoL herself can directly do that if you're playing a woman character.
I dunno, there are valid points in your words, but it feels that you're slightly coming at things as assuming bad faith or ill-intent on the part of the writers. But that's no doubt a result of only seeing the negative impressions you're sharing here. I am glad to see you were enjoying the beginning of the Steppes. I liked that part of Stormblood a fair bit myself. (I didn't like Magnai, to be clear, but I liked his role in the story; that of the bully confronted and humbled. If that distinction makes sense.)
edit: I really don't remember, so I would appreciate the reminder. But Magnai was a slaver? I really missed/forgot that, if true.
Well chores for Magnai done, lore learned, sheeps found, and now they manage to make me dislike them even more.
Not only is Magnai an arrogent asshole willing to abuse his power (also, not really sure how ok using paralysing poison in this contest is), now they reveal him also as a sexist asshole on top of it, also a slaver.
I assume i am now going to be forced to become his friend, for reasons, with no actual option to utterly humiliate him, repeatedly.
Because he is, i guess, somekind of powerful warrior who we need for war effort.
/sigh
No, that will come later.
Well i did not expect it to happen until after the damn combat trials.
I guess i should not complain so much, or just start skipping the story if this is what i have to deal with.
I just get tired of having to deal with people like Magnai and that other sexist clan leader, don't we have enough of them in real life we can do nothing about? Do we have to play nice with them in games as well?
I was actually enjoying the story in the plains until they came along.
It's mostly that I think you're being too unfair to the story in some respects. You're criticizing character actions but attributing it to the overall writing of the game. Or viewing the game having a set narrative and not allowing the player to push it all over and go off doing whatever as a detriment instead of a core concept of the mmo and jrpg genre. This isn't like a DM run dnd game or an open-world rpg video game that can react to player direction outside the presented path.
I don't see it as a fault of the game for having not-great people in positions of power before the WoL comes into the scene, since we do something to shake up the status quo and change that, and it feels more dramatic than coming into a new location and it being totally fine, stable, and ready to help us.
As for Magnai himself, the writing never seems to treat him as being right in the least, that I recall. And I do remember him being humiliated (knocked down a few pegs at least) a couple times by npc's. Heck, the WoL herself can directly do that if you're playing a woman character.
I dunno, there are valid points in your words, but it feels that you're slightly coming at things as assuming bad faith or ill-intent on the part of the writers. But that's no doubt a result of only seeing the negative impressions you're sharing here. I am glad to see you were enjoying the beginning of the Steppes. I liked that part of Stormblood a fair bit myself. (I didn't like Magnai, to be clear, but I liked his role in the story; that of the bully confronted and humbled. If that distinction makes sense.)
I don't think the writers are acting out of any ill intent.
Nor do i really expect the game to let me go of on my own at any point.
However, i do think the writers are taking the easy way out in lot of ways, the story is pretty simple, and lot of the characters are pretty one note.
Maybe the problem is in direction, maybe there was no time for more complex characterization, maybe they just wanted to hammer home that these people are terrible.
Having to deal with arrogant abusive bullies is tiring, and i worry the game will end up treating him like he was our friend, without giving me actual reason to like him, or even stop despising him.
edit-
Also, i do think you can have drama without having people in power be complete shits.
And even if you must insist on leaders being terrible, you can have them be terrible in less agravating manner.
Like well meaning but incompetent, insular, too proud (without being an abusive bully) to listen without being shown wrong.
Or, if they have to be abusive, arrogant, assholish, sexist bullies, maybe let the player really do something more than just be the bigger person and wait for storyline to suddenly turn them somehow into your allies.
edit: I really don't remember, so I would appreciate the reminder. But Magnai was a slaver? I really missed/forgot that, if true.
He made the threat that if we failed in his last job, he would make the two left behind into slaves.
He also stated that "he has no use for men" when picking who would become his slave (ostensibly because he wants someone to milk his livestock, if we take him at his word).
Well chores for Magnai done, lore learned, sheeps found, and now they manage to make me dislike them even more.
Not only is Magnai an arrogent asshole willing to abuse his power (also, not really sure how ok using paralysing poison in this contest is), now they reveal him also as a sexist asshole on top of it, also a slaver.
I assume i am now going to be forced to become his friend, for reasons, with no actual option to utterly humiliate him, repeatedly.
Because he is, i guess, somekind of powerful warrior who we need for war effort.
/sigh
No, that will come later.
Well i did not expect it to happen until after the damn combat trials.
I guess i should not complain so much, or just start skipping the story if this is what i have to deal with.
I just get tired of having to deal with people like Magnai and that other sexist clan leader, don't we have enough of them in real life we can do nothing about? Do we have to play nice with them in games as well?
I was actually enjoying the story in the plains until they came along.
It's mostly that I think you're being too unfair to the story in some respects. You're criticizing character actions but attributing it to the overall writing of the game. Or viewing the game having a set narrative and not allowing the player to push it all over and go off doing whatever as a detriment instead of a core concept of the mmo and jrpg genre. This isn't like a DM run dnd game or an open-world rpg video game that can react to player direction outside the presented path.
I don't see it as a fault of the game for having not-great people in positions of power before the WoL comes into the scene, since we do something to shake up the status quo and change that, and it feels more dramatic than coming into a new location and it being totally fine, stable, and ready to help us.
As for Magnai himself, the writing never seems to treat him as being right in the least, that I recall. And I do remember him being humiliated (knocked down a few pegs at least) a couple times by npc's. Heck, the WoL herself can directly do that if you're playing a woman character.
I dunno, there are valid points in your words, but it feels that you're slightly coming at things as assuming bad faith or ill-intent on the part of the writers. But that's no doubt a result of only seeing the negative impressions you're sharing here. I am glad to see you were enjoying the beginning of the Steppes. I liked that part of Stormblood a fair bit myself. (I didn't like Magnai, to be clear, but I liked his role in the story; that of the bully confronted and humbled. If that distinction makes sense.)
I don't think the writers are acting out of any ill intent.
Nor do i really expect the game to let me go of on my own at any point.
However, i do think the writers are taking the easy way out in lot of ways, the story is pretty simple, and lot of the characters are pretty one note.
Maybe the problem is in direction, maybe there was no time for more complex characterization, maybe they just wanted to hammer home that these people are terrible.
Having to deal with arrogant abusive bullies is tiring, and i worry the game will end up treating him like he was our friend, without giving me actual reason to like him, or even stop despising him.
I could be wrong or others could have a different opinion, but I've never felt that there was a character the game forced me to interact with, in a positive manner, that I found objectionable. 2.X era Alphinaud is maybe the only one, but he got loads better by/during Heavensward, but even then I never disliked him, just felt he was a bit naive and too much the romantic. As for Magnai himself, (and continuing in a spoiler just in case, but vague details only)
he is there to serve a purpose and is then gone again. The game won't force you to have him as a travelling buddy, if that's your worry. If you care to know, you'll only ever see him in the story (spoiler on future of the character)...
twice more in the msq before Shadowbringers starts.
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SaldonasSee you space cowboy...Registered Userregular
Not sure this helps any, but the Au Ra in the Azim Steppe is heavily based by Mongolian culture, so I feel like most of your interaction in that zone is appropriate.
Well chores for Magnai done, lore learned, sheeps found, and now they manage to make me dislike them even more.
Not only is Magnai an arrogent asshole willing to abuse his power (also, not really sure how ok using paralysing poison in this contest is), now they reveal him also as a sexist asshole on top of it, also a slaver.
I assume i am now going to be forced to become his friend, for reasons, with no actual option to utterly humiliate him, repeatedly.
Because he is, i guess, somekind of powerful warrior who we need for war effort.
/sigh
No, that will come later.
Well i did not expect it to happen until after the damn combat trials.
I guess i should not complain so much, or just start skipping the story if this is what i have to deal with.
I just get tired of having to deal with people like Magnai and that other sexist clan leader, don't we have enough of them in real life we can do nothing about? Do we have to play nice with them in games as well?
I was actually enjoying the story in the plains until they came along.
It's mostly that I think you're being too unfair to the story in some respects. You're criticizing character actions but attributing it to the overall writing of the game. Or viewing the game having a set narrative and not allowing the player to push it all over and go off doing whatever as a detriment instead of a core concept of the mmo and jrpg genre. This isn't like a DM run dnd game or an open-world rpg video game that can react to player direction outside the presented path.
I don't see it as a fault of the game for having not-great people in positions of power before the WoL comes into the scene, since we do something to shake up the status quo and change that, and it feels more dramatic than coming into a new location and it being totally fine, stable, and ready to help us.
As for Magnai himself, the writing never seems to treat him as being right in the least, that I recall. And I do remember him being humiliated (knocked down a few pegs at least) a couple times by npc's. Heck, the WoL herself can directly do that if you're playing a woman character.
I dunno, there are valid points in your words, but it feels that you're slightly coming at things as assuming bad faith or ill-intent on the part of the writers. But that's no doubt a result of only seeing the negative impressions you're sharing here. I am glad to see you were enjoying the beginning of the Steppes. I liked that part of Stormblood a fair bit myself. (I didn't like Magnai, to be clear, but I liked his role in the story; that of the bully confronted and humbled. If that distinction makes sense.)
I don't think the writers are acting out of any ill intent.
Nor do i really expect the game to let me go of on my own at any point.
However, i do think the writers are taking the easy way out in lot of ways, the story is pretty simple, and lot of the characters are pretty one note.
Maybe the problem is in direction, maybe there was no time for more complex characterization, maybe they just wanted to hammer home that these people are terrible.
Having to deal with arrogant abusive bullies is tiring, and i worry the game will end up treating him like he was our friend, without giving me actual reason to like him, or even stop despising him.
I could be wrong or others could have a different opinion, but I've never felt that there was a character the game forced me to interact with, in a positive manner, that I found objectionable. 2.X era Alphinaud is maybe the only one, but he got loads better by/during Heavensward, but even then I never disliked him, just felt he was a bit naive and too much the romantic. As for Magnai himself, (and continuing in a spoiler just in case, but vague details only)
he is there to serve a purpose and is then gone again. The game won't force you to have him as a travelling buddy, if that's your worry. If you care to know, you'll only ever see him in the story (spoiler on future of the character)...
twice more in the msq before Shadowbringers starts.
It's largely a matter of opinion really.
You did mention Alphinaud in 2.X, i would take Alphinaud and continue to the point in story i have reached, because while he has gotten better, i still have not warmed to him to an extent the game seems to think i have.
In fact, game seems to generally have a lot more positive wibe about WoL and Scions in general than i do.
I don't hate them, i just don't like them quite as much as the game seems to think i do.
And it's less about being friends in a literal sense, but that i have to take the abuse characters ditch at me, and not strike back, or even walk away.
Like, i have literally been kidnapped and abused (not physically, though they did place me in mortal danger (as far as they knew)), and then threatened me and my allies with slavery if i fail their latest bullshit task.
Will i get payback? I'm going to guess not, atleast not enough for my liking.
And then there's the sexism.
I'm not going to say games should not depict sexism, but i suspect this game will not really deal with it in any depth, so why bother including it.
Probably because it makes for an easy hatesink if done the right way.
Not sure this helps any, but the Au Ra in the Azim Steppe is heavily based by Mongolian culture, so I feel like most of your interaction in that zone is appropriate.
Not an expert on mongolian culture.
But, no, i don't think that is all that great a reason for any of the things i complain about.
As my main problem is not about them (though it is also partly about them), but about my characters reactions.
Post-ShB theorycrafting/thoughts related to earlier discussion up above:
To me there's some logical conclusions to draw from the info dump that was Shadowbringers, and I'm curious if the MSQ will ever address them or if I'm overthinking it (or things are misdirects).
For instance, both Hydaelyn and Zodiark, being primals themselves, are also both unnecessary; and Emet Selch didn't address that at all. Maybe it's a side effect of the mega-temper, but it seems like basic reason should have had him realize that even reuniting the shards and bringing back Zodiark would result in an ever dwindling amount of Ascians anyway, that the maintaining of Zodiark was an impossible task, and that's why Hydaelyn was summoned in the first place. The irony being Hydaelyn wouldn't have been necessary to thwart Zodiark if they didn't summon Zodiark.
In fact, he let slip that the Ascians, for all their power and abilities, were no more advanced or stable, than the lowest beast tribe summoning a primal out of fear. Ascians screwed their own stuff up, and couldn't deal with it, so they created a god to solve it. And just like the beast tribes, their god didn't solve it, just created a different, probably worse, problem.
Both Hydaelyn and Zodiark are the results of terrified children who either can't, or won't, solve their own problems, and the consequences of both their existences was worse than the problem they were made to solve.
So even if the Ascians successfully rejoin the Source, they're no further along not actually needing Zodiark; and the existence of Zodiark necessitates Hydaelyn.
Because what Selch, and the Ascians, seem to have missed entirely is that both primals serve equal and opposite purposes. Zodiark requires half the souls to sustain itself; Hydaelyn then, in response, splits existence to compensate. Also, in the face of power that the Ascians clearly couldn't handle (despite them thinking they could), splitting them into less powerful, but still alive with endless potential, is a round-about way of solving the same problem Zodiark was intended to. Either way, individuals have to sacrifice themselves to protect others. It's just the results of those sacrifices are very different, and what remains is either constantly shrinking, or forever expanding.
But yeah, tempering and all that. It seems obvious; the Ascians raise up civilizations purely to sow discord and chaos to drive the survivors to call upon them and thus Zodiark, but the end-game of that is simply one remaining star that was a civilization that rose up and descended to chaos and discord because they couldn't address the problems they created. I'm not sure how they think it's going to go differently if the rejoining is successful.
And I was confused a bit why none of the characters pointed out something about this in the MSQ. Here's Selch and the Asians desperately clinging to existence in the hopes of rebuilding what was lost, what they lost, by their own failings...condescending to "lesser" beings desperately clinging to existence in the hopes of rebuilding what was lost...:rotate: I just wanted someone to say it to him, and didn't get it.
The last story dungeon flat out shows us that what brought about that first calamity was the Ascians own fears and inability to address that in a meaningful way. All it took for the collapse and near destruction of their whole world was a fear made manifest, that bred more fears, which manifested themselves, and it just chain reactioned into complete chaos. All the power of creation, apparently never once having to have dealt with fear, or doubt, or danger. They were basically children given the powers of gods, and instead of ever growing up, blamed their mistakes on someone else, and are still trying to get their "parents" to fix things for them. But like a spoiled child who never learns how to handle failure and mistakes, even if "daddy" comes and restores what they lost, they're just going to lose it again.
Aaanyway, re: WoL being "tempered" I'm not so sure. It could be the Echo protects against tempering (and in fact, I seem to recall this being either implied or stated, at some point in the game, some time ago), but Hydaelyn is still able to bless you; and I think that's more likely because other primals have been able to do something similar without tempering the WoL. Also there was a clean break there for awhile, I think, where you no longer had the blessing of Hydaelyn, and you were disconnected from her entirely. I'm blanking on when, simply because I don't 100% recall what part of which MSQ stuff was before or after expansions, there's just so much. Also, the WoL isn't doing what they do for some huge purpose or goal like the Ascians. They're just protecting people and their right to be at all.
Plus, my personal take is that Primals, no matter how powerful, have no will other than that given to them by who summoned them. Their individual manifestations may appear more sinister or helpful, depending on your perspective, but individuals they are not. No matter what the motives of Zodiark or Hydaelyn, the basic fact is neither are acting of its own free will, they are simply serving the purpose of their summoning. Zodiark is no more malevolent than Hydaelyn is benevolent. They both simply are.
And they're unnecessary.
Which is a fairly common theme in Japanese stories, the uselessness of "gods" and how, even if a god really is a god, there is always a point where either their creations surpass them, or their continued existence is a hindrance to their creations.
Given where the XIV story has been, and where it seems to be going, I won't be surprised if that's the "end game" of this main XIV arc (which I guess YoshiP said they need one more expansion to conclude. Not that they'd stop making expansions, but this primary arc would/could be concluded).
Post-ShB theorycrafting/thoughts related to earlier discussion up above:
To me there's some logical conclusions to draw from the info dump that was Shadowbringers, and I'm curious if the MSQ will ever address them or if I'm overthinking it (or things are misdirects).
For instance, both Hydaelyn and Zodiark, being primals themselves, are also both unnecessary; and Emet Selch didn't address that at all. Maybe it's a side effect of the mega-temper, but it seems like basic reason should have had him realize that even reuniting the shards and bringing back Zodiark would result in an ever dwindling amount of Ascians anyway, that the maintaining of Zodiark was an impossible task, and that's why Hydaelyn was summoned in the first place. The irony being Hydaelyn wouldn't have been necessary to thwart Zodiark if they didn't summon Zodiark.
In fact, he let slip that the Ascians, for all their power and abilities, were no more advanced or stable, than the lowest beast tribe summoning a primal out of fear. Ascians screwed their own stuff up, and couldn't deal with it, so they created a god to solve it. And just like the beast tribes, their god didn't solve it, just created a different, probably worse, problem.
Both Hydaelyn and Zodiark are the results of terrified children who either can't, or won't, solve their own problems, and the consequences of both their existences was worse than the problem they were made to solve.
So even if the Ascians successfully rejoin the Source, they're no further along not actually needing Zodiark; and the existence of Zodiark necessitates Hydaelyn.
Because what Selch, and the Ascians, seem to have missed entirely is that both primals serve equal and opposite purposes. Zodiark requires half the souls to sustain itself; Hydaelyn then, in response, splits existence to compensate. Also, in the face of power that the Ascians clearly couldn't handle (despite them thinking they could), splitting them into less powerful, but still alive with endless potential, is a round-about way of solving the same problem Zodiark was intended to. Either way, individuals have to sacrifice themselves to protect others. It's just the results of those sacrifices are very different, and what remains is either constantly shrinking, or forever expanding.
But yeah, tempering and all that. It seems obvious; the Ascians raise up civilizations purely to sow discord and chaos to drive the survivors to call upon them and thus Zodiark, but the end-game of that is simply one remaining star that was a civilization that rose up and descended to chaos and discord because they couldn't address the problems they created. I'm not sure how they think it's going to go differently if the rejoining is successful.
And I was confused a bit why none of the characters pointed out something about this in the MSQ. Here's Selch and the Asians desperately clinging to existence in the hopes of rebuilding what was lost, what they lost, by their own failings...condescending to "lesser" beings desperately clinging to existence in the hopes of rebuilding what was lost...:rotate: I just wanted someone to say it to him, and didn't get it.
The last story dungeon flat out shows us that what brought about that first calamity was the Ascians own fears and inability to address that in a meaningful way. All it took for the collapse and near destruction of their whole world was a fear made manifest, that bred more fears, which manifested themselves, and it just chain reactioned into complete chaos. All the power of creation, apparently never once having to have dealt with fear, or doubt, or danger. They were basically children given the powers of gods, and instead of ever growing up, blamed their mistakes on someone else, and are still trying to get their "parents" to fix things for them. But like a spoiled child who never learns how to handle failure and mistakes, even if "daddy" comes and restores what they lost, they're just going to lose it again.
Aaanyway, re: WoL being "tempered" I'm not so sure. It could be the Echo protects against tempering (and in fact, I seem to recall this being either implied or stated, at some point in the game, some time ago), but Hydaelyn is still able to bless you; and I think that's more likely because other primals have been able to do something similar without tempering the WoL. Also there was a clean break there for awhile, I think, where you no longer had the blessing of Hydaelyn, and you were disconnected from her entirely. I'm blanking on when, simply because I don't 100% recall what part of which MSQ stuff was before or after expansions, there's just so much. Also, the WoL isn't doing what they do for some huge purpose or goal like the Ascians. They're just protecting people and their right to be at all.
Plus, my personal take is that Primals, no matter how powerful, have no will other than that given to them by who summoned them. Their individual manifestations may appear more sinister or helpful, depending on your perspective, but individuals they are not. No matter what the motives of Zodiark or Hydaelyn, the basic fact is neither are acting of its own free will, they are simply serving the purpose of their summoning. Zodiark is no more malevolent than Hydaelyn is benevolent. They both simply are.
And they're unnecessary.
Which is a fairly common theme in Japanese stories, the uselessness of "gods" and how, even if a god really is a god, there is always a point where either their creations surpass them, or their continued existence is a hindrance to their creations.
Given where the XIV story has been, and where it seems to be going, I won't be surprised if that's the "end game" of this main XIV arc (which I guess YoshiP said they need one more expansion to conclude. Not that they'd stop making expansions, but this primary arc would/could be concluded).
I think you're incorrect on a fundamental premise
They needed that many souls to summon him, which was their equivalent of Aether. To perform the rites they wanted him to do, they required a lot of aether, and thats' why they had to sacrifice so many people and then so many more people to undo it. Hydeline is created because the other half of the population doesn't want this being to exist. The goal is to bring back everyone who died and then resume life as it was.
League of Legends: Sorakanmyworld
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
Managed to get into my account and start playing tonight, woo!
Dancer is super fun! Sucks I have to level it 10 levels, but I guess I have to get back into the groove anyways. Guess I'll just do roulettes and beast tribe quests and maybe some heaven-on-high
Well, managed to get myself through Naadam.
Apart from the two sexist assholes, the other tribes seem interesting, Mol with their follow the gods, the silent ones who keep the market and especially Sadus group with their reincarnation belief.
They manage to do pride and arrogance right, it's "we're great" instead of "everyone else sucks".
Nhaadam itself was kinda fun, too easy, sure, but atleast the grand melee with dozens of enemies is more entertaining than a single enemy with over inflated health bar.
The fight after was ok as well.
But for fucks sake people don't just stand there, capture the enemy leader, or shoot some arrows at him.
He's on foot.
They really should have given him somekind of vehicle to run away with, this "stand by as enemy jogs away" feels silly.
edit-
ok, that victorypose is ridiculous.
Didn't notice it in the Naadam, but showing it again to the Mol warriors, yeah, it is utterly ridiculous.
Been a while since this game made me actually, literally, laugh out loud.
i did bardam's mettle in leveling roulette yesterday and the tank said "sorry just to let you know i'm not super well geared right now" and then immediately pulled the first three packs
What i love as a healer is when we wipe at first pull, and then tank decides that the right thing to do is to make even bigger pulls.
And then whine that i should have saved us with a limit break when we wipe again later, on trash.
Like, just pull one group at a time, trash in these dungeons hit like some bosses (was at Bardam's Mettle).
Posts
Totally unjustified crackpot theory
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
One problem with that
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Did Midgardsormr come from like, another planet in space or whatever? That's what it sounded like with the whole Omega thing last xpac. Is it just assumed that everything split unless otherwise specified?
If the Echo were tied at all to the Blessing of Light we would have lost it as well when Midgardsormr took the Blessing from us, which we definitely didn't.
It's not explained.
Most of this comes from my interpretation on the term "the Source" which to me implies that everything splintered from that one point. But as Donnicton said, there's no real explanation so far. And other than Midgardsormr and Omega we haven't had any other aliens and those 2 weren't exactly explained thoroughly either
did you play Metroid Prime 2? It's like that
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Edit: I should mention that i also meant a more thorough explanation of life on other planets and non-Source planets in general. On top of their origins and planets as a whole, why omega was fighting them, was omega created, by whom, etc etc. Was either of their home planets destroyed, are there other planets with or with life out there?
Omega raids...
Omega, having lost Midgardsormr, went to the last location and shut down (being very damaged from the trip). Allagans find it and use it to advance their tech. You know the rest...
I don't know what more you're looking for?
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Not only is Magnai an arrogent asshole willing to abuse his power (also, not really sure how ok using paralysing poison in this contest is), now they reveal him also as a sexist asshole on top of it, also a slaver.
I assume i am now going to be forced to become his friend, for reasons, with no actual option to utterly humiliate him, repeatedly.
Because he is, i guess, somekind of powerful warrior who we need for war effort.
/sigh
No, that will come later.
I guess i should not complain so much, or just start skipping the story if this is what i have to deal with.
I just get tired of having to deal with people like Magnai and that other sexist clan leader, don't we have enough of them in real life we can do nothing about? Do we have to play nice with them in games as well?
I was actually enjoying the story in the plains until they came along.
It's mostly that I think you're being too unfair to the story in some respects. You're criticizing character actions but attributing it to the overall writing of the game. Or viewing the game having a set narrative and not allowing the player to push it all over and go off doing whatever as a detriment instead of a core concept of the mmo and jrpg genre. This isn't like a DM run dnd game or an open-world rpg video game that can react to player direction outside the presented path.
I don't see it as a fault of the game for having not-great people in positions of power before the WoL comes into the scene, since we do something to shake up the status quo and change that, and it feels more dramatic than coming into a new location and it being totally fine, stable, and ready to help us.
As for Magnai himself, the writing never seems to treat him as being right in the least, that I recall. And I do remember him being humiliated (knocked down a few pegs at least) a couple times by npc's. Heck, the WoL herself can directly do that if you're playing a woman character.
I dunno, there are valid points in your words, but it feels that you're slightly coming at things as assuming bad faith or ill-intent on the part of the writers. But that's no doubt a result of only seeing the negative impressions you're sharing here. I am glad to see you were enjoying the beginning of the Steppes. I liked that part of Stormblood a fair bit myself. (I didn't like Magnai, to be clear, but I liked his role in the story; that of the bully confronted and humbled. If that distinction makes sense.)
edit: I really don't remember, so I would appreciate the reminder. But Magnai was a slaver? I really missed/forgot that, if true.
Nor do i really expect the game to let me go of on my own at any point.
However, i do think the writers are taking the easy way out in lot of ways, the story is pretty simple, and lot of the characters are pretty one note.
Maybe the problem is in direction, maybe there was no time for more complex characterization, maybe they just wanted to hammer home that these people are terrible.
Having to deal with arrogant abusive bullies is tiring, and i worry the game will end up treating him like he was our friend, without giving me actual reason to like him, or even stop despising him.
edit-
Also, i do think you can have drama without having people in power be complete shits.
And even if you must insist on leaders being terrible, you can have them be terrible in less agravating manner.
Like well meaning but incompetent, insular, too proud (without being an abusive bully) to listen without being shown wrong.
Or, if they have to be abusive, arrogant, assholish, sexist bullies, maybe let the player really do something more than just be the bigger person and wait for storyline to suddenly turn them somehow into your allies.
edit2- He made the threat that if we failed in his last job, he would make the two left behind into slaves.
He also stated that "he has no use for men" when picking who would become his slave (ostensibly because he wants someone to milk his livestock, if we take him at his word).
I could be wrong or others could have a different opinion, but I've never felt that there was a character the game forced me to interact with, in a positive manner, that I found objectionable. 2.X era Alphinaud is maybe the only one, but he got loads better by/during Heavensward, but even then I never disliked him, just felt he was a bit naive and too much the romantic. As for Magnai himself, (and continuing in a spoiler just in case, but vague details only)
Switch: SW-1493-0062-4053
You did mention Alphinaud in 2.X, i would take Alphinaud and continue to the point in story i have reached, because while he has gotten better, i still have not warmed to him to an extent the game seems to think i have.
In fact, game seems to generally have a lot more positive wibe about WoL and Scions in general than i do.
I don't hate them, i just don't like them quite as much as the game seems to think i do.
And it's less about being friends in a literal sense, but that i have to take the abuse characters ditch at me, and not strike back, or even walk away.
Like, i have literally been kidnapped and abused (not physically, though they did place me in mortal danger (as far as they knew)), and then threatened me and my allies with slavery if i fail their latest bullshit task.
Will i get payback? I'm going to guess not, atleast not enough for my liking.
And then there's the sexism.
I'm not going to say games should not depict sexism, but i suspect this game will not really deal with it in any depth, so why bother including it.
Probably because it makes for an easy hatesink if done the right way.
But, no, i don't think that is all that great a reason for any of the things i complain about.
As my main problem is not about them (though it is also partly about them), but about my characters reactions.
For instance, both Hydaelyn and Zodiark, being primals themselves, are also both unnecessary; and Emet Selch didn't address that at all. Maybe it's a side effect of the mega-temper, but it seems like basic reason should have had him realize that even reuniting the shards and bringing back Zodiark would result in an ever dwindling amount of Ascians anyway, that the maintaining of Zodiark was an impossible task, and that's why Hydaelyn was summoned in the first place. The irony being Hydaelyn wouldn't have been necessary to thwart Zodiark if they didn't summon Zodiark.
In fact, he let slip that the Ascians, for all their power and abilities, were no more advanced or stable, than the lowest beast tribe summoning a primal out of fear. Ascians screwed their own stuff up, and couldn't deal with it, so they created a god to solve it. And just like the beast tribes, their god didn't solve it, just created a different, probably worse, problem.
Both Hydaelyn and Zodiark are the results of terrified children who either can't, or won't, solve their own problems, and the consequences of both their existences was worse than the problem they were made to solve.
So even if the Ascians successfully rejoin the Source, they're no further along not actually needing Zodiark; and the existence of Zodiark necessitates Hydaelyn.
Because what Selch, and the Ascians, seem to have missed entirely is that both primals serve equal and opposite purposes. Zodiark requires half the souls to sustain itself; Hydaelyn then, in response, splits existence to compensate. Also, in the face of power that the Ascians clearly couldn't handle (despite them thinking they could), splitting them into less powerful, but still alive with endless potential, is a round-about way of solving the same problem Zodiark was intended to. Either way, individuals have to sacrifice themselves to protect others. It's just the results of those sacrifices are very different, and what remains is either constantly shrinking, or forever expanding.
But yeah, tempering and all that. It seems obvious; the Ascians raise up civilizations purely to sow discord and chaos to drive the survivors to call upon them and thus Zodiark, but the end-game of that is simply one remaining star that was a civilization that rose up and descended to chaos and discord because they couldn't address the problems they created. I'm not sure how they think it's going to go differently if the rejoining is successful.
And I was confused a bit why none of the characters pointed out something about this in the MSQ. Here's Selch and the Asians desperately clinging to existence in the hopes of rebuilding what was lost, what they lost, by their own failings...condescending to "lesser" beings desperately clinging to existence in the hopes of rebuilding what was lost...:rotate: I just wanted someone to say it to him, and didn't get it.
The last story dungeon flat out shows us that what brought about that first calamity was the Ascians own fears and inability to address that in a meaningful way. All it took for the collapse and near destruction of their whole world was a fear made manifest, that bred more fears, which manifested themselves, and it just chain reactioned into complete chaos. All the power of creation, apparently never once having to have dealt with fear, or doubt, or danger. They were basically children given the powers of gods, and instead of ever growing up, blamed their mistakes on someone else, and are still trying to get their "parents" to fix things for them. But like a spoiled child who never learns how to handle failure and mistakes, even if "daddy" comes and restores what they lost, they're just going to lose it again.
Aaanyway, re: WoL being "tempered" I'm not so sure. It could be the Echo protects against tempering (and in fact, I seem to recall this being either implied or stated, at some point in the game, some time ago), but Hydaelyn is still able to bless you; and I think that's more likely because other primals have been able to do something similar without tempering the WoL. Also there was a clean break there for awhile, I think, where you no longer had the blessing of Hydaelyn, and you were disconnected from her entirely. I'm blanking on when, simply because I don't 100% recall what part of which MSQ stuff was before or after expansions, there's just so much. Also, the WoL isn't doing what they do for some huge purpose or goal like the Ascians. They're just protecting people and their right to be at all.
Plus, my personal take is that Primals, no matter how powerful, have no will other than that given to them by who summoned them. Their individual manifestations may appear more sinister or helpful, depending on your perspective, but individuals they are not. No matter what the motives of Zodiark or Hydaelyn, the basic fact is neither are acting of its own free will, they are simply serving the purpose of their summoning. Zodiark is no more malevolent than Hydaelyn is benevolent. They both simply are.
And they're unnecessary.
Which is a fairly common theme in Japanese stories, the uselessness of "gods" and how, even if a god really is a god, there is always a point where either their creations surpass them, or their continued existence is a hindrance to their creations.
Given where the XIV story has been, and where it seems to be going, I won't be surprised if that's the "end game" of this main XIV arc (which I guess YoshiP said they need one more expansion to conclude. Not that they'd stop making expansions, but this primary arc would/could be concluded).
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
I think you're incorrect on a fundamental premise
They needed that many souls to summon him, which was their equivalent of Aether. To perform the rites they wanted him to do, they required a lot of aether, and thats' why they had to sacrifice so many people and then so many more people to undo it. Hydeline is created because the other half of the population doesn't want this being to exist. The goal is to bring back everyone who died and then resume life as it was.
FFXIV: Tchel Fay
Nintendo ID: Tortalius
Steam: Tortalius
Stream: twitch.tv/tortalius
Dancer is super fun! Sucks I have to level it 10 levels, but I guess I have to get back into the groove anyways. Guess I'll just do roulettes and beast tribe quests and maybe some heaven-on-high
Apart from the two sexist assholes, the other tribes seem interesting, Mol with their follow the gods, the silent ones who keep the market and especially Sadus group with their reincarnation belief.
They manage to do pride and arrogance right, it's "we're great" instead of "everyone else sucks".
Nhaadam itself was kinda fun, too easy, sure, but atleast the grand melee with dozens of enemies is more entertaining than a single enemy with over inflated health bar.
The fight after was ok as well.
But for fucks sake people don't just stand there, capture the enemy leader, or shoot some arrows at him.
He's on foot.
They really should have given him somekind of vehicle to run away with, this "stand by as enemy jogs away" feels silly.
edit-
ok, that victorypose is ridiculous.
Didn't notice it in the Naadam, but showing it again to the Mol warriors, yeah, it is utterly ridiculous.
Been a while since this game made me actually, literally, laugh out loud.
Also, is it as ridiculous as using the emote on a crafter?
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
It started of as Clouds victory pose from FFVII, and then got sillier.
Ah yeah, now that you mention it it does start like his.
One of the best idles though (on females at least)
3DS: 0473-8507-2652
Switch: SW-5185-4991-5118
PSN: AbEntropy
Not anymore.
This guy gets it
And then whine that i should have saved us with a limit break when we wipe again later, on trash.
Like, just pull one group at a time, trash in these dungeons hit like some bosses (was at Bardam's Mettle).