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[The Culture] Fully Automated Luxury Gay Space Communism

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Posts

  • SealSeal Registered User regular
    Finished Surface Detail. It didn't grab me at the start but then it was great for the last 80% of the book.
    I loved Falling Outside the Normal Moral Constraints interactions with Led, just the right mix of fun loving and psychopathy. And holy shit Zakalwe's story gets some closure, figures he'd be pro-hell since it's where he'd believe himself to belong.

    The Zombie Penguin
  • PhotosaurusPhotosaurus Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    Seal wrote: »
    After the Epilogue I was a lot happier,
    We know the shellworld survived and I got the impression that the Culture was now allowed to take a more direct hand in influencing the Sarl. What with how spectacularly the Oct fucked things up it's not surprising. But it would have been nice if we got a breakdown of the fallout of the incident.

    Yeah, the epilogue of Matter is really what makes the whole book for me.

    ... I legit did not know there was an epilouge. Reading on the Kindle app for my phone and it just ends and then goes into pages and pages of basically family trees before getting to the epilouge, so I just missed it.

    It definitely makes it better!

    "If complete and utter chaos was lightning, then he'd be the sort to stand on a hilltop in a thunderstorm wearing wet copper armour and shouting 'All gods are bastards'."
  • SealSeal Registered User regular
    edited August 21
    Winky wrote: »
    Seal wrote: »
    After the Epilogue I was a lot happier,
    We know the shellworld survived and I got the impression that the Culture was now allowed to take a more direct hand in influencing the Sarl. What with how spectacularly the Oct fucked things up it's not surprising. But it would have been nice if we got a breakdown of the fallout of the incident.

    Yeah, the epilogue of Matter is really what makes the whole book for me.

    ... I legit did not know there was an epilouge. Reading on the Kindle app for my phone and it just ends and then goes into pages and pages of basically family trees before getting to the epilouge, so I just missed it.

    It definitely makes it better!

    I was flipping through the glossary in disgust before I ended up at the epilogue.

    Seal on
    Photosaurus
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    The Hydrogen Sonata is definitely interesting, and gives a lot of background on the Culture I never really expected.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    So, like, it's common knowledge that amazon is making consider phlebas into a TV show. Including being described as such on amazon's book and audiobook pages, right?

    it's news that is a year and a half old, and I only learned about it kinda recently.

    This machine kills threads.
  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Registered User regular
    Seal wrote: »
    Finished Surface Detail. It didn't grab me at the start but then it was great for the last 80% of the book.
    I loved Falling Outside the Normal Moral Constraints interactions with Led, just the right mix of fun loving and psychopathy. And holy shit Zakalwe's story gets some closure, figures he'd be pro-hell since it's where he'd believe himself to belong.

    Surface Detail is my favourite of the books, from the fact that the title "Spoils" the plot, to it's epilogue having one of the outright happiest endings. FOtNMC being both an asshole and a genuinely compassionate person was great, and agreed on it's interactions with Led (Who herself is a great protag, and holy fuck i'm jealous of her super tech culture tattoos)

    Hydrogen Sonata, i admit i struggled with enjoy. It's... bleak, at the end. A lot of people took a lot of very horrible actions that amounted to absolutely nill, and life moved on. But then: Life moved on, and it could have been so much worse. So... ???

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
    Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/id/TheZombiePenguin
    Stream: https://www.twitch.tv/thezombiepenguin/
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    So, like, it's common knowledge that amazon is making consider phlebas into a TV show. Including being described as such on amazon's book and audiobook pages, right?

    it's news that is a year and a half old, and I only learned about it kinda recently.

    So you don't know my joke about it yet!

    It's definitely going to be some kind of trainwreck! Boom! Hole in One!

    Sorry

    ApogeetynicAimThe Deliverator
  • knitdanknitdan Oh no Too much hunnyRegistered User regular
    What sort of scared, lost mind would come up with that joke

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
    -Indiana Solo, runner of blades
    Aim
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Seal wrote: »
    Finished Surface Detail. It didn't grab me at the start but then it was great for the last 80% of the book.
    I loved Falling Outside the Normal Moral Constraints interactions with Led, just the right mix of fun loving and psychopathy. And holy shit Zakalwe's story gets some closure, figures he'd be pro-hell since it's where he'd believe himself to belong.

    Surface Detail is my favourite of the books, from the fact that the title "Spoils" the plot, to it's epilogue having one of the outright happiest endings. FOtNMC being both an asshole and a genuinely compassionate person was great, and agreed on it's interactions with Led (Who herself is a great protag, and holy fuck i'm jealous of her super tech culture tattoos)

    Hydrogen Sonata, i admit i struggled with enjoy. It's... bleak, at the end. A lot of people took a lot of very horrible actions that amounted to absolutely nill, and life moved on. But then: Life moved on, and it could have been so much worse. So... ???

    I think that's a core bit of a lot of the Culture books. Banks created a utopia and filled it full of people who fundamentally weren't that much better than we are now. They're not racist or sexist, and they're much easier going and accepting about things; but they still have the ability to be massive assholes and selfish bastards. It makes for compelling reading with a lot of bummer endings.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • WinkyWinky Registered User regular
    I do love that subliming is ultimately not really some apotheosis in the moral or spiritual or cultural development of your society; at the end of the day it’s just another thing to do. Even the sublimed are still fundamentally just people (in the sense that Minds are people). Utterly incomprehensible people, but people all the same with flaws and shortcomings and goals of their own that might be petty or short-sighted. If anything, Banks paints subliming as a pretty selfish thing to do.

    Banks rightfully recognizes that technological, cultural, economic, etc development is all mostly orthogonal to moral development. You can become quite sophisticated without having sorted out some pretty basic problems. I like that there’s this running theme of startling pettiness from people that appears incongruous with the gravity of their positions throughout Hydrogen Sonata.

    I actually find it to be a much less depressing book personally, and almost an uplifting one in ways. The larger point of the book is that there’s nothing that’s absolutely important; not even ascending to a higher plane of existence is more important than simply doing whatever it is you find important for yourself. The hydrogen sonata was intended as a joke, but so what? That doesn’t determine what it means for Vyr, or what she cares about; she determines that for herself.

    electricitylikesmetynic
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Light Googling hasn't turned up anyone trying to build a Antagonistic Undecagonstring. Harrumph.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    WinkyThe Zombie Penguin
  • mrondeaumrondeau Montréal, CanadaRegistered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Light Googling hasn't turned up anyone trying to build a Antagonistic Undecagonstring. Harrumph.
    Given the description of how it sounds, I take it as proof that SC exists and want us to be safe.

    Brody
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    I do love that subliming is ultimately not really some apotheosis in the moral or spiritual or cultural development of your society; at the end of the day it’s just another thing to do. Even the sublimed are still fundamentally just people (in the sense that Minds are people). Utterly incomprehensible people, but people all the same with flaws and shortcomings and goals of their own that might be petty or short-sighted. If anything, Banks paints subliming as a pretty selfish thing to do.

    Banks rightfully recognizes that technological, cultural, economic, etc development is all mostly orthogonal to moral development. You can become quite sophisticated without having sorted out some pretty basic problems. I like that there’s this running theme of startling pettiness from people that appears incongruous with the gravity of their positions throughout Hydrogen Sonata.

    I actually find it to be a much less depressing book personally, and almost an uplifting one in ways. The larger point of the book is that there’s nothing that’s absolutely important; not even ascending to a higher plane of existence is more important than simply doing whatever it is you find important for yourself. The hydrogen sonata was intended as a joke, but so what? That doesn’t determine what it means for Vyr, or what she cares about; she determines that for herself.

    My initial reaction is that the way Subliming is depicted is like if it were some radical improvement that was only obviously so once you've done it. That kind of moral development is often opaque and incomprehensible to those who haven't gone through it. Of course, the same could be said of most cults...

    I do agree with your later points though. The Hydrogen Sonata is one of my favorite Banks books. Even though it feels generally melancholic, I think the ultimate message is very hopeful and affirming.

  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    Winky wrote: »
    I do love that subliming is ultimately not really some apotheosis in the moral or spiritual or cultural development of your society; at the end of the day it’s just another thing to do. Even the sublimed are still fundamentally just people (in the sense that Minds are people). Utterly incomprehensible people, but people all the same with flaws and shortcomings and goals of their own that might be petty or short-sighted. If anything, Banks paints subliming as a pretty selfish thing to do.

    Banks rightfully recognizes that technological, cultural, economic, etc development is all mostly orthogonal to moral development. You can become quite sophisticated without having sorted out some pretty basic problems. I like that there’s this running theme of startling pettiness from people that appears incongruous with the gravity of their positions throughout Hydrogen Sonata.

    I actually find it to be a much less depressing book personally, and almost an uplifting one in ways. The larger point of the book is that there’s nothing that’s absolutely important; not even ascending to a higher plane of existence is more important than simply doing whatever it is you find important for yourself. The hydrogen sonata was intended as a joke, but so what? That doesn’t determine what it means for Vyr, or what she cares about; she determines that for herself.

    My initial reaction is that the way Subliming is depicted is like if it were some radical improvement that was only obviously so once you've done it. That kind of moral development is often opaque and incomprehensible to those who haven't gone through it. Of course, the same could be said of most cults...

    I do agree with your later points though. The Hydrogen Sonata is one of my favorite Banks books. Even though it feels generally melancholic, I think the ultimate message is very hopeful and affirming.

    What evidence is there that subliming is accompanied by moral development? Mostly they just totally disengage from interacting with base reality. The few that communicate back seem about what you'd expect from their originating society.

    There's like one culture person that gets talked about, and they seem about what you'd expect from Contact if they were dealing with a lower tech society.

    There are some others that maybe send some guidance back, or that's just religion. But they aren't particularly malevolent or benevolent, just maybe care a little about the stuff they used to care about.

    This machine kills threads.
    mrondeau
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    I don't know that I really understood Subliming to have any moral effects, but I do think its interesting that under a certain internal complexity, Enfolding is something pointless? Like, apparently your puny mind would just get lost in the Embigining. Makes you really think what Outloading must be like.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
  • WinkyWinky Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    I don't know that I really understood Subliming to have any moral effects, but I do think its interesting that under a certain internal complexity, Enfolding is something pointless? Like, apparently your puny mind would just get lost in the Embigining. Makes you really think what Outloading must be like.

    One of my favorite little bits is the off-hand mention that all attempts to make an AI that is completely unbiased by the culture/values of its creators just results in it spontaneously subliming itself.

    Apparently there's just no good reason to stay on this plane of existence if you aren't given one.

    Styrofoam SammichDarkPrimustynichonovere
  • honoverehonovere Registered User regular
    Everytime I see the A GST On The Ethics of Democrats Appearing on Alt Right Sympathetic Media thread I think it's about Culture ship names. Must be a weird General Systems Transport?

    electricitylikesmeBrodyDarkPrimusWinkyWhiteZinfandel
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Everytime I see the A GST On The Ethics of Democrats Appearing on Alt Right Sympathetic Media thread I think it's about Culture ship names. Must be a weird General Systems Transport?

    That would be the Eccentric that even other Eccentrics think is weird.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
    tynicWinkyCaedwyr
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    honovere wrote: »
    Everytime I see the A GST On The Ethics of Democrats Appearing on Alt Right Sympathetic Media thread I think it's about Culture ship names. Must be a weird General Systems Transport?

    Its a Contact with a really specific interest in the politics of Civ level 3 and below politics.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
    Winky
  • EchoEcho Moderator mod
    Echo wrote: »
    Let they who have not posted about their balls in the wrong thread cast the first stone.
    mrondeauSealBlackDragon480Winky
  • SealSeal Registered User regular
    Finished Hydrogen Sonata, it was excellent. But if there had to be a soundtrack to this book it should just be Promontory from Last of the Mohicans.
    Zombie Penguin was right, horrible shit happens and then people just sort of move on.

    Fear of what may happen has always been an excellent driver of tragedies.

    DevoutlyApatheticWinky
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