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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] My Better Brexit Deal Goes To Another School

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Posts

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    Jazz wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    From the Guardian blog on the current debate.
    Shailesh Vara, a Conservative, says the UK is negotiating the biggest business deal in its history. It has to hold its nerve, and not rule out a no deal, because the EU will give in at the last minute, he says.

    Jesus wept. They're so desperately certain the EU will give in, because if it doesn't they're fucked. And us as well, of course.

    Ladies and jellyspoons, my MP. *weeps*

    Could be worse.
    Andrea Leadsom has just read out a Valentines Day poem in the Commons..

    The Leader of the House said:
    Labour is red
    Tories are blue
    Our future is bright
    With a good deal in sight
    For the UK and our friends in the EU

    Tell me someone shouted "THE HONORABLE GENTLEWOMAN'S METRE SUCKS."

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  • CroakerBCCroakerBC YorkRegistered User regular
    To be fair, if you broke off 20 Tories and got them into a coalition with Labour, I would laugh until I was sick.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    I can’t see any reliable source on those Chuka Umunna / Anna Soubry rumors, though they’ve gotten bad enough that Sky News’ deputy political editor came out and asked both of them if they were quitting and got a bit of a fudged reply.

    Umunna’s spokesperson was clear as crystal with Buzzfeed UK’s senior political correspondent though. He flat out denied it was true.


  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Yeah it is. And okay the gossip is that Chuka and several MPs from Labour are quitting at the same time Anna Soubry and several from the Tories are quitting, to form a new anti-Brexit party.

    This is ALL just gossip. I can’t pin down a source. But base level British political Twitter is absolutely melting down with it, with each side attacking their “defectors” before anything is even confirmed. Even if it all turns out to be a pack of lies, it shows a very sorry state of affairs.

    It's kind of crazy but at the same time makes perfect sense since "No Brexit" represents probably more then 50% of the UK at this point and yet is completely unrepresented in parliament.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    edited February 14
    shryke wrote: »
    Yeah it is. And okay the gossip is that Chuka and several MPs from Labour are quitting at the same time Anna Soubry and several from the Tories are quitting, to form a new anti-Brexit party.

    This is ALL just gossip. I can’t pin down a source. But base level British political Twitter is absolutely melting down with it, with each side attacking their “defectors” before anything is even confirmed. Even if it all turns out to be a pack of lies, it shows a very sorry state of affairs.

    It's kind of crazy but at the same time makes perfect sense since "No Brexit" represents probably more then 50% of the UK at this point and yet is completely unrepresented in parliament.

    Also it would likely cause a snap election since the government’s confidence and supply propped majority would evaporate. And May promised not to stand as Tory Leader for the next one. And these MPs are likely to be well known to be anti Brexit already, so would likely be fairly easily elected again. In which case whichever of the two main parties managed to win the snap election might very well need them in order to form a government.

    *edit* I don’t think the rumors have enough substance to them to be true, but listening to this clip of Anna Soubry speaking just an hour ago I can understand why people started thinking she might be quitting the Tories. She gave a blistering attack on the lack of leadership from government, and said she believes the Tory party is broken.

    Desktop Hippie on

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Okay, the 8pm breaking story seems to be Richard Harrington (Tory MP and Minister for Business, not the actor) reaching the end of his tether and more or less declaring war on the ERG wing of the Tory party.


    From the editor of PoliticsHome.com


  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    Seems like it was nothing then.

    Frankly, at this point the remain tories ought to have quit already. The tory party is a populist, nationalist, anti-immigrant party on a par with the likes of the AfD, French National Front, Dutch Freedom Party or any other verging on the far right party across Europe. They even have a would-be tyrant as leader. Would you want to be tainted by association in their position, or salvage some dignity and leave the party?

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    altid wrote: »
    Seems like it was nothing then.

    Frankly, at this point the remain tories ought to have quit already. The tory party is a populist, nationalist, anti-immigrant party on a par with the likes of the AfD, French National Front, Dutch Freedom Party or any other verging on the far right party across Europe. They even have a would-be tyrant as leader. Would you want to be tainted by association in their position, or salvage some dignity and leave the party?

    Because they want conservative economic policy. This is the deal the right has always made for the last like 50 years at least? Century? It's pretty ubiquitous.

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  • Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    Any time anyone teases a breaking news story, I've been burned enough times now to know that it's going to be a wet fart of a story.

    Anything interesting gets leaked to every journalist and they collectively go into a frenzy immediately.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    Bad-Beat wrote: »
    Any time anyone teases a breaking news story, I've been burned enough times now to know that it's going to be a wet fart of a story.

    Anything interesting gets leaked to every journalist and they collectively go into a frenzy immediately.

    Yeah. The only problem was the Chuka / Anna rumors had reached peak craziness by then, so it was 99% “doesn’t look like it’s happening” and 1% “...or is this the frenzy?”

    Honestly though it’s the reaction to the rumors that’s indicative of how bad things are in my view. Even for Brexit twitter there was so much vitriol I’m surprised my iPad didn’t corrode. It’s downright disturbing. People ranting about politicians being “traitors” and worse, like Jo Cox’s murder never happened.


  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
    Bad-Beat wrote: »
    Any time anyone teases a breaking news story, I've been burned enough times now to know that it's going to be a wet fart of a story.

    Anything interesting gets leaked to every journalist and they collectively go into a frenzy immediately.

    In normal times this actually would be a huge story, it's just that the past three or four years of politics have been so batshit ridiculous that we've all become inured to political drama.

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  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck lonely, but not unloved dreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered User regular
    if i wasnt teetotal i would live stream me watching the feb 27 vote but i fear sober it would just be too depressing

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  • tzeentchlingtzeentchling Doctor of Rocks San DiegoRegistered User regular
    edited February 15
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    That can't be real, is too stupid.
    Nevermind. Though some answers on that thread are on the mark:

    There was an article on NPR about these billboards! As Brexit Deadline Looms, Billboards Call Out Politicians' 'Quick And Easy' Claims

    Hopefully they'll help hold politicians accountable, but odds are slim as ever I suppose.

    tzeentchling on
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  • LongLiveTheCoreLongLiveTheCore Registered User regular
    edited February 15
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Theresa May's stint as Home Secretary alone seems to contradict that

    If you are talking about Windrush then it was a Labour government that ordered them to be shredded in the first place.
    Casual wrote: »

    She literally had billboard vans with "go home" driving around London. That is not a joke, it is a fact.

    In bad taste for sure and a message that could be done better but racist? No.
    Bogart wrote: »
    Also I am having a good laugh at the idea that lots of people weren’t racist in the seventies.

    Lots weren't, stuff like the Black and White Minstrel show were hang-overs from less enlightened age. If people were so racist in the 70's then they would not have voted to Remain, 66.7% of the country voted to Remain, were those 66.7 % the 'lots' that you envision?. Would you say people like Tony Benn were racist for being against the EEC? Let us not forget that the EU is basically a white mans club yet when it comes down to it you don't seem to apply the same term of 'racism' then.
    Bogart wrote: »
    On this day in 2013, when she was Home Secretary.


    I fail to see what is racist about that, except some very liberal application of the term racist. When people like you use the term 'racist' in a non-racist context then really you do a disservice to real victims of racism.
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    good work ken clarke

    Ken Clarke was never very good at reading impoertant documents such as the Maastrict Treaty and you would have thought reading the party manifesto would be something an old veteran like him would do. If he does not want to stand by the party manifesto then he should quit the party.

    LongLiveTheCore on
  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    Telling people who look foreign to "go home" is such a staple of actual racism that it's the second most frequent thing used to lampoon racism itself, just behind "they took our jobs but are also terminally workshy" and just ahead of "they should speak proper English like what the Queen does".

    And it's especially telling that the choice was made to drive vans with "go home" written on them around six London boroughs with significant non-white populations.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    To be clear, I'm pretty sure one of the people being told to "go home" is currently Mayor of London.

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  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    One of the tools the police will lose access to is a system that lets us share criminal histories between EU nations. This takes about 6 days.

    Outside the EU it takes closer to 70 days...

  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    You claimed she was not hostile to immigrants. The vans driving round, the bizarrely gleeful tweets about fake marriages, Windrush, and the fact that she literally said she wanted a "hostile environment" for immigrants are evidence of her being hostile to immigrants. Any number of cases of immigrants being treated badly as a direct result of her policies have been headline news. If you choose to ignore them and believe she's even-handed in her treatment, then you do you, but I can't say I want to spend more time proving 2 and 2 equals 4.

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  • CroakerBCCroakerBC YorkRegistered User regular
    I see of the three tabled amendments last night, two failed to pass, and Soubry withdrew the third. The bill then failed, as I expected.
    And none of the amendments were the indicative vote amendment anyway. Sorry folks, no beers for us.

  • knitdanknitdan Oh no Too much hornyRegistered User regular
    Harping on so-called “sham marriages” is in and of itself a racist act designed to intimidate immigrants.

    “I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    It's all a load of fucking nasty shite

    Let em all in. I welcome them! Drown out all the home grown scum that we are always hearing from.

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  • pezgenpezgen Registered User regular


    Matt is a pollster, election analyst and an oh-so funny japester

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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
  • BurnageBurnage irregular Registered User regular
  • HerrCronHerrCron It that wickedly supports taxation Registered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »

    Well, shite. When I lived on the IoW the flights they ran between Southampton and Dublin were a fucking godsend.

    But what price freedom, friends?

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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    And I got a notification yesterday that Raspberry Pi is leaving the UK. Which as companies go is not exactly a big employer, but as a recognizable tech flagship it's still a blow.

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  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    tynic wrote: »
    And I got a notification yesterday that Raspberry Pi is leaving the UK. Which as companies go is not exactly a big employer, but as a recognizable tech flagship it's still a blow.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidCleevely/status/1094916009276919808

    https://blog.hackster.io/the-raspberry-pi-is-staying-in-britain-2353a9aca202?gi=5d85a80a4d15

    Apparently it's not the Pi as such that's being moved (yet) but their new project.

    Didn't want that technological innovation anyway. That kind of thing just causes discontent.

    V1m on
    tynicElldrenSporkAndrew
  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 16
    The replies to that tweet are head-desk inducing
    JLR recently opened a new factory in Slovakia with 125 million of EU money then fired thousands of employees in the UK. It's been going on for decades, the quicker we leave the sooner we can stop it.

    ... how?? how the fuck will this stop it???

    edit: Maybe I've misunderstood the Leave desires all along. "Taking control of our borders" doesn't mean keeping people out, they think they can like, lock the doors and force manufacturing to stay, or something.

    tynic on
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  • SharpyVIISharpyVII Registered User regular
    edited February 16
    tynic wrote: »
    The replies to that tweet are head-desk inducing
    JLR recently opened a new factory in Slovakia with 125 million of EU money then fired thousands of employees in the UK. It's been going on for decades, the quicker we leave the sooner we can stop it.

    ... how?? how the fuck will this stop it???

    edit: Maybe I've misunderstood the Leave desires all along. "Taking control of our borders" doesn't mean keeping people out, they think they can like, lock the doors and force manufacturing to stay, or something.

    There's been lists going round on Facebook and Twitter of all these companies that have allegedly moved out of the UK using EU grants.

    The top one was Cadbury closing a factory in Bristol I think and setting up in Poland using an EU grant.

    5 seconds of googling shows its not true and that happened right after Kraft bought them and news articles from 2011 make no mention of EU grants.

    SharpyVII on
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  • tynictynic PICNIC BADASS Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 16
    I actually read a really long article in the LRB about that, and yeah it was a complicated situation but had very little to do with any direct monetary incentives by the EU.

    The real counter point of course is how many grants from the EU that the UK receives in order to promote and retain manufacturing, which is quite a lot! EU development money was the biggest driver of small-scale manufacturing in Cornwall, for example. Probably true in other leave-heavy areas as well.
    And I'm not sure how companies moving jobs outside the UK will be stopped by Brexit, when you think about it for more than five minutes.

    tynic on
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  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    The replies to that tweet are head-desk inducing
    JLR recently opened a new factory in Slovakia with 125 million of EU money then fired thousands of employees in the UK. It's been going on for decades, the quicker we leave the sooner we can stop it.

    ... how?? how the fuck will this stop it???

    edit: Maybe I've misunderstood the Leave desires all along. "Taking control of our borders" doesn't mean keeping people out, they think they can like, lock the doors and force manufacturing to stay, or something.

    I mean probably

    Mayabird
  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    I actually read a really long article in the LRB about that, and yeah it was a complicated situation but had very little to do with any direct monetary incentives by the EU.

    The real counter point of course is how many grants from the EU that the UK receives in order to promote and retain manufacturing, which is quite a lot! EU development money was the biggest driver of small-scale manufacturing in Cornwall, for example. Probably true in other leave-heavy areas as well.
    And I'm not sure how companies moving jobs outside the UK will be stopped by Brexit, when you think about it for more than five minutes.

    Yeah I mean it's not like EU countries are going to stop offering treats and prizes to companies looking to invest, and nor will the UK

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    In other "they need us more than we need them" news:

    https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1Q41K9
    (Reuters) - The value of Irish goods exports rose by 15 percent to a record 140 billion euros (£123 billion) last year as a fall in the goods sold into Britain was substantially offset by increases to almost all of Ireland's other major trade partners.

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  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Total Goober Registered User regular
    tynic wrote: »
    The replies to that tweet are head-desk inducing
    JLR recently opened a new factory in Slovakia with 125 million of EU money then fired thousands of employees in the UK. It's been going on for decades, the quicker we leave the sooner we can stop it.

    ... how?? how the fuck will this stop it???

    edit: Maybe I've misunderstood the Leave desires all along. "Taking control of our borders" doesn't mean keeping people out, they think they can like, lock the doors and force manufacturing to stay, or something.

    We have the same problem in the US. People don't understand economics.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    In other "they need us more than we need them" news:

    https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1Q41K9
    (Reuters) - The value of Irish goods exports rose by 15 percent to a record 140 billion euros (£123 billion) last year as a fall in the goods sold into Britain was substantially offset by increases to almost all of Ireland's other major trade partners.

    RoI is going to benefit hugely from this as the only remaining primary English speaking nation in the EU.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    japan wrote: »
    In other "they need us more than we need them" news:

    https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1Q41K9
    (Reuters) - The value of Irish goods exports rose by 15 percent to a record 140 billion euros (£123 billion) last year as a fall in the goods sold into Britain was substantially offset by increases to almost all of Ireland's other major trade partners.

    RoI is going to benefit hugely from this as the only remaining primary English speaking nation in the EU.

    I think a lot of the US' "special relationship" hinges on the fact we share a language, so RoI is probably going to get a lot of American attention as well.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I'm really curious how US relations with the UK are going to look like post Brexit. The conservatives are predictably convinced that Brexit is the best idea ever, because they hate the EU as much as the Leavers, so I imagine we're going to try and do something that exploits the crisis and takes advantage of the UK while saying how wonderful it is for freedom and the economy, I just don't know what precise shape their dickery will take.

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  • EvermournEvermourn Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    SharpyVII wrote: »
    5 seconds of googling
    If I could have one wish, it would be that anyone posting anything on FB has to do this first.

    Well no, it would be world peace of course. But this would be my second wish.

    Evermourn on
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  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    I'm really curious how US relations with the UK are going to look like post Brexit. The conservatives are predictably convinced that Brexit is the best idea ever, because they hate the EU as much as the Leavers, so I imagine we're going to try and do something that exploits the crisis and takes advantage of the UK while saying how wonderful it is for freedom and the economy, I just don't know what precise shape their dickery will take.

    “You know all those food safety regulations you’re so fond of? How about if you don’t want food shortages you start removing them”

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    edited February 17
    It just hit me that I never mentioned here that with the Democrats taking the House in the US, their trade committees are now staffed by majority Democrats too.

    The Taoiseach and Tánaiste have already been to Washington to talk to them - the visit was earlier this month - and basically the Democrats who will ratify any trade agreement stressed that the UK would need to guarantee that Ireland would retain its soft border if they were to get a US trade deal.



    There’s a statement from a Congress critter from each party. RTÉ News is Ireland’s public broadcast news service.

    Desktop Hippie on

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