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[Hiberno-Britannic Politics] No Downside To Now Mean Rationing

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Posts

  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    edited December 6
    Since apparently there just isn’t enough news happening all at once, the Associated Press are reporting that the Ecuadorian Embassy are satisfied with an agreement they’ve made with the UK government that might allow them to send Assange out of their embassy.


    The agreement seems to be a guarantee that Assange won’t be extradited to any country that has the death penalty. Which I guess rules the US out too?

    *edit* Actually no, it’s a guarantee that he won’t be extradited to a country where he would face the death penalty. That’s different.

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  • ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit I'm a good person yes it's trueRegistered User regular
    Since apparently there just isn’t enough news happening all at once, the Associated Press are reporting that the Ecuadorian Embassy are satisfied with an agreement they’ve made with the UK government that might allow them to send Assange out of their embassy.


    The agreement seems to be a guarantee that Assange won’t be extradited to any country that has the death penalty. Which I guess rules the US out too?

    *edit* Actually no, it’s a guarantee that he won’t be extradited to a country where he would face the death penalty. That’s different.

    So he can be extradited basically anywhere that isn't Russia

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Usually people can be extradited to the USA from countries without the death penalty as long as the USA agrees they won't get the death penalty.

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Usually people can be extradited to the USA from countries without the death penalty as long as the USA agrees they won't get the death penalty.

    And I can't imagine any charge they would hang to assange that would have death penalty as even an option.

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Usually people can be extradited to the USA from countries without the death penalty as long as the USA agrees they won't get the death penalty.

    And I can't imagine any charge they would hang to assange that would have death penalty as even an option.

    Isn't Sweden first in line for a piece of him?

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Usually people can be extradited to the USA from countries without the death penalty as long as the USA agrees they won't get the death penalty.

    And I can't imagine any charge they would hang to assange that would have death penalty as even an option.

    Isn't Sweden first in line for a piece of him?

    Not for long.

  • PantsBPantsB Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Usually people can be extradited to the USA from countries without the death penalty as long as the USA agrees they won't get the death penalty.

    And I can't imagine any charge they would hang to assange that would have death penalty as even an option.

    Isn't Sweden first in line for a piece of him?

    I think he's going to get away with that due to basically statutes of limitations. The hard line is 2020 I guess, but they dropped charges because of the delay with the potential to reopen them. In this era of MeToo maybe it doesn't get swept under the rug as a wag the dog situation

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Usually people can be extradited to the USA from countries without the death penalty as long as the USA agrees they won't get the death penalty.

    And I can't imagine any charge they would hang to assange that would have death penalty as even an option.

    Isn't Sweden first in line for a piece of him?

    Not for long.

    Not anymore actually, looks like they dropped the investigation back in May of 2017.

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  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie Registered User regular
    First in line, ironically, will be the UK. When Assange claimed asylum in the Ecuadorian Embassy he also skipped bail.


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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    daveNYC wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Usually people can be extradited to the USA from countries without the death penalty as long as the USA agrees they won't get the death penalty.

    And I can't imagine any charge they would hang to assange that would have death penalty as even an option.

    Isn't Sweden first in line for a piece of him?

    Not for long.

    Not anymore actually, looks like they dropped the investigation back in May of 2017.

    No, I meant in the sense that it's looking very likely that some very motivated people in the US want his ass for a pelt.

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  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Usually people can be extradited to the USA from countries without the death penalty as long as the USA agrees they won't get the death penalty.

    And I can't imagine any charge they would hang to assange that would have death penalty as even an option.

    Life in a Supermax, though...

  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Usually people can be extradited to the USA from countries without the death penalty as long as the USA agrees they won't get the death penalty.

    And I can't imagine any charge they would hang to assange that would have death penalty as even an option.

    Isn't Sweden first in line for a piece of him?

    Not for long.

    Not anymore actually, looks like they dropped the investigation back in May of 2017.

    No, I meant in the sense that it's looking very likely that some very motivated people in the US want his ass for a pelt.

    Yeah, I understood that. My point was that there's not even a line to be in anymore.

  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    PantsB wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    kaid wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Usually people can be extradited to the USA from countries without the death penalty as long as the USA agrees they won't get the death penalty.

    And I can't imagine any charge they would hang to assange that would have death penalty as even an option.

    Isn't Sweden first in line for a piece of him?

    I think he's going to get away with that due to basically statutes of limitations. The hard line is 2020 I guess, but they dropped charges because of the delay with the potential to reopen them. In this era of MeToo maybe it doesn't get swept under the rug as a wag the dog situation

    I only know it's a thing in the US, but isn't the statute of limitations put on hold when the target is out of the country? It's there to stop someone from committing a crime and just leaving the country until the clock runs out.

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  • hippofanthippofant ティンク Registered User regular
    Since apparently there just isn’t enough news happening all at once, the Associated Press are reporting that the Ecuadorian Embassy are satisfied with an agreement they’ve made with the UK government that might allow them to send Assange out of their embassy.


    The agreement seems to be a guarantee that Assange won’t be extradited to any country that has the death penalty. Which I guess rules the US out too?

    *edit* Actually no, it’s a guarantee that he won’t be extradited to a country where he would face the death penalty. That’s different.

    Hm. This is because Assange has been a twit while in the Ecuadorian embassy, right, and not some policy change over in Ecuador?

  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Elldren wrote: »
    Since apparently there just isn’t enough news happening all at once, the Associated Press are reporting that the Ecuadorian Embassy are satisfied with an agreement they’ve made with the UK government that might allow them to send Assange out of their embassy.


    The agreement seems to be a guarantee that Assange won’t be extradited to any country that has the death penalty. Which I guess rules the US out too?

    *edit* Actually no, it’s a guarantee that he won’t be extradited to a country where he would face the death penalty. That’s different.

    So he can be extradited basically anywhere that isn't Russia

    Russia doesn't have the death penalty, and hasn't since Chechnya. Belarus is the only country in Europe to hire an executioner.

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    hippofant wrote: »
    Since apparently there just isn’t enough news happening all at once, the Associated Press are reporting that the Ecuadorian Embassy are satisfied with an agreement they’ve made with the UK government that might allow them to send Assange out of their embassy.


    The agreement seems to be a guarantee that Assange won’t be extradited to any country that has the death penalty. Which I guess rules the US out too?

    *edit* Actually no, it’s a guarantee that he won’t be extradited to a country where he would face the death penalty. That’s different.

    Hm. This is because Assange has been a twit while in the Ecuadorian embassy, right, and not some policy change over in Ecuador?

    I am pretty sure this is the case. He has become more and more of a nuisance and his activities potentially put them under the spot light of some pretty major powers so if they can find a way to pawn him off and keep their conscience clear it looks like they will do so. Hell if you look at their list of last things they wanted from assange basically boiled down to a you are a grown ass man clean up after yourself.

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  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    kaid wrote: »
    hippofant wrote: »
    Since apparently there just isn’t enough news happening all at once, the Associated Press are reporting that the Ecuadorian Embassy are satisfied with an agreement they’ve made with the UK government that might allow them to send Assange out of their embassy.


    The agreement seems to be a guarantee that Assange won’t be extradited to any country that has the death penalty. Which I guess rules the US out too?

    *edit* Actually no, it’s a guarantee that he won’t be extradited to a country where he would face the death penalty. That’s different.

    Hm. This is because Assange has been a twit while in the Ecuadorian embassy, right, and not some policy change over in Ecuador?

    I am pretty sure this is the case. He has become more and more of a nuisance and his activities potentially put them under the spot light of some pretty major powers so if they can find a way to pawn him off and keep their conscience clear it looks like they will do so. Hell if you look at their list of last things they wanted from assange basically boiled down to a you are a grown ass man clean up after yourself.

    I think the growing revelations that he is politically aligned with Russia and the global right has also changed the calculus on who wants to protect him. A lot of his former allies have better things to do these days than to go to bat for one of Putin's buddies.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    From "unjustly persecuted champion of Freedom" to "Russian propaganda tool" is a bit of a change in status, yes.

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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    Since apparently there just isn’t enough news happening all at once, the Associated Press are reporting that the Ecuadorian Embassy are satisfied with an agreement they’ve made with the UK government that might allow them to send Assange out of their embassy.


    The agreement seems to be a guarantee that Assange won’t be extradited to any country that has the death penalty. Which I guess rules the US out too?

    *edit* Actually no, it’s a guarantee that he won’t be extradited to a country where he would face the death penalty. That’s different.

    I really hope this is like a Susan Collins guarentee.

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  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    I don't think that people in the UK, in the main, give the remotest shit about Assange

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  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    Why did Norway agree to “Norway Classic” instead of joining the EU?

    Little late to the party but I feel this is something that should be explained.

    Boring long spoilered version:
    To explain how Norway came to "Norway Classic" one has to look at the two pieces of the EU that Norway has opted out of: the Common Agricultural policy and the Common Fishery policy. Norway is... lets just say it very mountainous and not very habitable. Agriculture is hard at the best of times and fishing/Aquaculture is a primary way of life. Sure, there is oil, but that is a recent thing and won't last forever.

    Norwegian Agriculture exist primarily due to government subsidies and is more a "rural subsidy" to maintain population than a way to feed the country. Its important because there is no way Norway can compete with even Denmark on agriculture, much less Germany/France/Spain or anyone else if they had to join the Common Agricultural Policy. Devastating rural Norway and leading to huge depopulation of said areas.

    Norwegian Fishery industry is the exact opposite. It is a globally integrated industry with a significant edge vis a vi its EU competitors. It has several global trading partners(like China and Japan) precisely because its not encumbered by the tariffs the EU has set up to protect its own fishery industry. If it joins, then that goes away, Norway has to let EU fishing vessels into its patch of the ocean and submit to EU tariffs.

    So how does this relate to the UK? Well, Norway is pretty much cool with the rest of the EU rules. The access to the Common market is worth the price and lack of say in how policy is worked out is minimal. Norway is so small that its political influence would be next to nothing if it was a part of the EU anyways. When the option of joining was made, it was practically a joke that "we would be able to decide what policy is made". Somehow I don't think the UK will be as cool as Norway is with having to wait outside while the EU decides its policy.

    And Norway is pretty much cool with the four freedoms, even the freedom of movement. Poles? Pretty much the largest immigrant group in the country and pretty much make up the majority of construction workers. Even agriculture/fishery industries use EU seasonal labor, so its no problem.

    Short unspoiled version:
    TL: DR; Norway chose Norway classic because it gets everything it wants from the EU and isn't a real competitor to EU industries outside of a few marginal cases. It also doesn't mind EU(though that does not mean it likes) control over vast segments of the Norwegian economy, because its not like Norway would have had control inside the EU anyways. The UK is in the exact opposite situation.

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  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    edited December 6
    I'm disappointed with how quickly "no Brexit at all" seems to have left the minds of the media. Even in this huge fucking chart from the Times (stolen from the last post in the last thread), "no Brexit" isn't even a possible outcome.



    I understand how phenomenally unlikely it is, but it's never going to happen if "Hey...you don't have to do this. Honestly. The EU will grumble but they won't mind" isn't at least treated as a serious option.

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  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    It's The Times. It's a Murdoch paper. I would have been amazed if it had acknowledged that potential outcome at all.

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  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    The Times has always been surprisingly pro-Remain, if I remember correctly, and it's pretty reasonable at this point to argue that Remaining isn't possible without a second referendum - which is an option in that chart.

  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    So Radio 4 PM was talking up this poll



    It's The Times that commissioned it so it's paywalled until someone else picks it up

    Short version is that, shockingly, the DUP are not representative of mainstream opinion on NI

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  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    Burnage wrote: »
    The Times has always been surprisingly pro-Remain, if I remember correctly, and it's pretty reasonable at this point to argue that Remaining isn't possible without a second referendum - which is an option in that chart.

    It only ever struck me as being as pro-Remain as, say, the Mail on Sunday was while Geordie Greig was still EIC. I could be completely wrong, though. Wouldn't be the first time!

    Yeah, the idea of remaining without another referendum does seem like an infinitesimal shot. Accidental no-deal is probably way more likely than that, despite still (hopefully) being relatively unlikely.

  • altidaltid Registered User regular
    japan wrote: »
    So Radio 4 PM was talking up this poll



    It's The Times that commissioned it so it's paywalled until someone else picks it up

    Short version is that, shockingly, the DUP are not representative of mainstream opinion on NI

    I'm not that surprised. The only thing more popular would be "just stay in the EU". Also unsurprising that the unionists by and large take the stupid option. Such is the problem with NI politics really.

    To give insight into how the DUP think, they're stuck in the mindset that as "the biggest bit of the slightly bigger bit" - that is the largest unionist party - they're the absolute power in NI. It's why power sharing is a very necessary thing. To illustrate this, at one point in the past few weeks Sammy Wilson was on the tv talking about how "the people of NI won't have EU rules imposed on them". The irony of him saying this while the DUP impose the minority pro-Brexit position on the people of NI was apparently lost on him.

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  • pezgenpezgen Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    I'm disappointed with how quickly "no Brexit at all" seems to have left the minds of the media. Even in this huge fucking chart from the Times (stolen from the last post in the last thread), "no Brexit" isn't even a possible outcome.



    I understand how phenomenally unlikely it is, but it's never going to happen if "Hey...you don't have to do this. Honestly. The EU will grumble but they won't mind" isn't at least treated as a serious option.

    Theresa May herself was on the Today programme this morning saying that voting aginst her deal risked “no Brexit at all”.

    But the interviewer was John Humphreys, so of course he didn’t press her on that.

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    edited December 6
    The Brexit TV debate is off. Previously, May wanted it on the BBC (in a format including a "panel of experts and representatives of smaller parties") and Corbyn wanted ITV (who offered a head to head format with just the two of them and a moderator, ITV go-to Julie Etchingham). The BBC dropped their proposal a few days ago, and now ITV has decided not to go ahead. Labour are accusing May of pulling out; ITV themselves are not apportioning blame but mentioned it had been "up to those invited to decide whether they want to accept the invitation."

    Jazz on
  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    Basically a waste of fucking time for all involved

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  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    I am morbidly curious as to who would have been on that hypothetical BBC panel of "experts", though. Just to see exactly how far they would dig into the Brexiter lunatic fringe...

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  • BurnageBurnage Registered User regular
    Of fucking course the two people asking us to put our faith in letting them be in charge of organising Brexit couldn't manage to organise a debate about Brexit.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    To revisit a term coined an eternity several threads ago:. omnishambles.

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  • Bad-BeatBad-Beat Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    I'm disappointed with how quickly "no Brexit at all" seems to have left the minds of the media. Even in this huge fucking chart from the Times (stolen from the last post in the last thread), "no Brexit" isn't even a possible outcome.



    I understand how phenomenally unlikely it is, but it's never going to happen if "Hey...you don't have to do this. Honestly. The EU will grumble but they won't mind" isn't at least treated as a serious option.

    My reading of that chart is that May is 100% never going to cancel Brexit of her own accord. The only way is if there is a May resigns, a second referendum, or a general election. So No Brexit is a option, it's just a sub-category that hasn't been listed.

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  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    To revisit a term coined an eternity several threads ago:. omnishambles.

    This is so much further down the scale, the infamous omnishambles seems like an exercise in competence by comparison.

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  • danxdanx Registered User regular
    Nicola Murray would make a better PM at this point. Hell even Glenn would.

  • JazzJazz UKRegistered User regular
    danx wrote: »
    Nicola Murray would make a better PM at this point. Hell even Glenn would.

    At this point even Andy Murray would.

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  • japanjapan Registered User regular
    Sadiq khan has decided he's just going to start saying it out loud

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    Solar wrote: »
    Basically a waste of fucking time for all involved

    New thread title?

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    "Nuh uh, we're going over this cliff and it'll be awesome."

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