If y'alls are on twitter, now's the chance to make your voice heard. Iksar is taking feedback about what drove people away from the game (but, honestly, anything you don't currently like about the game/game's direction can work as well):
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I don't think Iksar can deliver on "fire Kotick and restructure the entire company to prevent what just happened from ever happening again" but hey worth a mention I guess.
I mainly play wild, so the nerfs are not as limiting. My playstyle is mostly aggro/tempo decks. Thank god Avianna got nerfed since the class got too many tools from previous card sets.
Hearthstone: (Wild and Arena)
Currently Playing on Steam - Journey down Ch 3/ Shadowrun: Hong Kong
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Iksar has two puppies named Misha and Reno Jackson...
If y'alls are on twitter, now's the chance to make your voice heard. Iksar is taking feedback about what drove people away from the game (but, honestly, anything you don't currently like about the game/game's direction can work as well):
Even if I Twittered, I don't know what I'd bother to post. The only things that would probably make me enjoy the game more basically go against their monetization schemes, which I know aren't going to change since they like that their game makes mad amounts of profit.
Even if I Twittered, I don't know what I'd bother to post. The only things that would probably make me enjoy the game more basically go against their monetization schemes, which I know aren't going to change since they like that their game makes mad amounts of profit.
I twittered and left that stuff out for that reason. That's information that'd have gotten my entire comment discarded, if it isn't already.
If y'alls are on twitter, now's the chance to make your voice heard. Iksar is taking feedback about what drove people away from the game (but, honestly, anything you don't currently like about the game/game's direction can work as well):
Well, I did my part...
Wish I had more space without going into multiple tweets. Oh well....
i went with:
- rotate classic
- more frequent rotations (set stays in for only 1 year, oldest set rotates out each time a new set comes in. so e.g. witchwood in, ungoro out. boomsday in, frozen throne out. etc etc)
- less egregious card design, kraken was too powerful, recruit/mana cheating/insane value cards were way too strong
- hall of fucking fame genn/baku
If someone logs in after significant time off and finds out that they can’t play standard because most or all of their cards rotated? I don’t think they’ll be spending any more. I think that’s when they hit the uninstall button.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
If y'alls are on twitter, now's the chance to make your voice heard. Iksar is taking feedback about what drove people away from the game (but, honestly, anything you don't currently like about the game/game's direction can work as well):
This is mine. I won’t post my twitter account here because I want it relatively anonymous. But if you’re a gourmet who wants to look obviously won’t be that hard.
Rotate classic to Wild. Rotate in certain classic cards to Standard every 3 months to keep things fresh, then rotate them back out. Find more ways to create diverse metagames. Make class identity more obvious. Cut way back on neutrals. Release more cards
If someone logs in after significant time off and finds out that they can’t play standard because most or all of their cards rotated? I don’t think they’ll be spending any more. I think that’s when they hit the uninstall button.
what if you log in and find that all your classic set cards, the only ones you have that are in the standard rotation, are all nerfed and shitty now?
we can't have it both ways, either the classic set is locked in stone so it's always this base to build on, or it's gone. you can't just kill every card in there over time and have it fulfill that role, otherwise people will just be walked over even more than they already would be
If someone logs in after significant time off and finds out that they can’t play standard because most or all of their cards rotated? I don’t think they’ll be spending any more. I think that’s when they hit the uninstall button.
what if you log in and find that all your classic set cards, the only ones you have that are in the standard rotation, are all nerfed and shitty now?
we can't have it both ways, either the classic set is locked in stone so it's always this base to build on, or it's gone. you can't just kill every card in there over time and have it fulfill that role, otherwise people will just be walked over even more than they already would be
it is the year 2030. the year of our lord RNGesus.
fireball and frostbolt now both cost 10 mana. mage just had too much burn available, including the new spell, Burn, which came out this last set.
Burn also costs 10 mana, which does 10 damage to your opponent, 10 damage to your opponent's minions, burns 10 cards in their deck, discards 10 cards from their hand, heals you for 10, gives you 10 armor, summons ten 10/10s with Super-Charge (Charge is so last decade), gives you a 10/10 weapon, and draws you 10 cards.
all mage spells are just 10 mana now. they're just too good.
except pyroblast. pyroblast was nerfed to 20 mana.
it was still seeing so much play at 19 mana, you see. still just in every mage deck.
To build on some of the suggestions here, maybe they need a third mode...call it Restricted? Where they can rotate cards in and out more frequently, all that jazz. Keep Standard and Wild as is.
What I want is a F2P deck recipe of the week, chosen to try to push the meta game.
Say that Wall Priest is the best performing deck, and you want to tone it down a bit. The next week, Midrange Hunter is the F2P deck. Anyone can play a prebuilt and optimized version of the deck for free. And if they want to keep the deck, they can either buy it at some good price (say, $10 to $20 depending on build cost; any cards you already have you get extra copies of that you can dust) or craft the cards at a 25% to 50% discount. The next week, you target Odd Paladin, and the F2P deck is a Quest Warrior deck. The week after that, Midrange Hunter is on top, so Odd Mage is the F2P deck. And so on and so forth.
Unlike the Whizbang decks, you generally make actual optimized ladder decks. With that said, you occasionally rotate in some fun decks, in part so that you cover each class with some reasonable frequency.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Climbing with Renolock again because I'm incapable of learning from the past. Playing a N'Zoth list this season; swapped Chow for MoP, cut some tech cards (Mist, Doomsayer, Treachery) for deathrattles (Applebaum, Rin, N'Zoth), and compensated for the slightly slower list by changing Stonehill and Mist to Coil and crab.
6-0 vs Kingsbane so far, they are not fans of Zola'd crabs or ooze into Gnomeferatu after Myra's.
To build on some of the suggestions here, maybe they need a third mode...call it Restricted? Where they can rotate cards in and out more frequently, all that jazz. Keep Standard and Wild as is.
'Limited' is what MTG calls it I think, and yeah, I say keep Standard and Wild the way they are and add a new ranked mode where they can rotate and experiment more frequently.
To build on some of the suggestions here, maybe they need a third mode...call it Restricted? Where they can rotate cards in and out more frequently, all that jazz. Keep Standard and Wild as is.
'Limited' is what MTG calls it I think, and yeah, I say keep Standard and Wild the way they are and add a new ranked mode where they can rotate and experiment more frequently.
Hearthstone's take on MTG's "limited" is Arena. "Limited" being basically any mode where you acquire the cards inside the competition itself and build your deck there under some set rules, vs "constructed" where you can freely acquire any legal cards to build your deck prior to entry.
The closest thing MTG had to this was "block" where you would have two or three expansion sets themed around a setting, so its close to a year's worth of cards you can play. It was never remotely as popular as Standard (2-year rotation like HS) and I don't think they have supported it for quite some time.
In fact when they tried to shift standard to a more regular 18-month rotation, with 2 sets leaving every 6 months, the playerbase revolted. They were forced to change back to HS style 2-year rotation with sets that had been designed around 18-month rotation, leading to a slew of degenerate combos cropping up. Still they had to work through that with mass bannings because people losing the use of entire sets so frequently proved to be a bigger problem than a terrible meta. So I don't think more frequent rotation is a particularly good idea and the analogy here is to just nerf more stuff rather than dumping entire sets.
I'd like more frequent rotations, but not based on time but set. 6 sets live at all time, with the oldest set rotating when a new set drops. Not only would that give each set a full 24-months of play, there would be a bigger meta shift each 3-months as there would be a 240-ish card rotational shift.
I really feel that rotating 3 sets at a time isn't good for the game. Sure the game feels the best after the new Standard year starts, but that's only because so many cards (and power synergies) leave at once. We could feel that effect every three months with my plan. People would also be more inclined to craft/buy cards that only see play for 18-months currently.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
To be clear, rotating cards twice a year is the thing that proved to be horrible for MTG more than them "only" being there 18 months or what not. Pushing that to three times is just asking for disaster. Rotation is something "casuals" hate and is more of a necessary evil than excitement to most players, plus it starts to really confuse people over time. Better to take as much hit all at once as you can than spread out the misery.
I'm trying to put together a zoo Warlock deck which includes Hireek and Onyxia, the idea being the enemy will trip over the endless corpses of my fallen minions and hurt themselves. Is there another card besides the 5/7 Warlock one that does damage whenever a friendly minion dies?
the problem with HS's "2-year meta" is that at any given point there may be upwards of 6 different expacs available, and thus 6 different kinds of packs to buy
and that's super not great if you're a casual player or a new player
if you shrink the "2-year meta" down to a 1-year meta (newest in, oldest out, every time a new expac releases) that suddenly becomes a hell of a lot more manageable (only 3 sets/card packs existing at any given time), a lot easier to balance (Kraken's fucking shadow still looms over the game), and it keeps things feeling fresher.
like, look at Year of the Raven. Witchwood came out, sure sure fine. stuff saw play. but then Boomsday came out and that had the impact of a wet noodle. and then Rastakhan's came out with the impact of a fart in the wind.
do you know why those latter two didn't see much if any play?
Kraken.
Kraken's sets were just THAT much better and, in essence, prevented those two sets from seeing much play or experimentation because why use those when you can just use the old OP stuff instead? hell, new experimental lists with new cards were proving to be performing worse than old lists without any new cards.
i dunno. i feel like the game would be so much better off if they just did it that way instead.
Rotating more frequently would force players to spend a lot more money to stay competitive, which makes me surprised to see it being suggested so much on this board
Personally I think a ‘two year meta’ is fine, they just need to introduce more balance levers against the most degenerate combo stuff (more interaction in opposing turns basically)
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
I think a one-year rotation is way too short. it exacerbates the problem casual players already have, which is coming back to a bunch of "useless" cards. (Yes they can still play Wild but they may not even be sure what is if they are really casual).
I really think they need to just bite the bullet and rotate classic out. Keep basic cards in, because most of those are bad to mediocre anyway, and maybe rotate 5-10 classic cards every 4 months to keep things interesting. Yes this also hurts casual players, but it is a much better option from a design point of view then turning everyone's good classic cards into trash tier cards.
I think the new sets haven't succeeded for exactly the reason Dibby says--Kraken sets were too good (and genn/baku). The new ones are probably fine, not necessarily bad, but why play cards that are fine to good when you can play cards that define the state of the game?
More cards per set, higher ratio of class cards to neutral cards, and get core out of there.
Reprints would help greatly with that. I'm sure people would complain about opening cards that they already own though, even if they had different art.
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it fucks over a lot of the weird otk decks like mecha'thun and malyrogue
im good at the mirror though, it encourages a sneaky playstyle where you hold your mass dispels
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Currently Playing on Steam - Journey down Ch 3/ Shadowrun: Hong Kong
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Well, I did my part...
Wish I had more space without going into multiple tweets. Oh well....
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
Twitch Page
I twittered and left that stuff out for that reason. That's information that'd have gotten my entire comment discarded, if it isn't already.
Impressive account name there.
i went with:
- rotate classic
- more frequent rotations (set stays in for only 1 year, oldest set rotates out each time a new set comes in. so e.g. witchwood in, ungoro out. boomsday in, frozen throne out. etc etc)
- less egregious card design, kraken was too powerful, recruit/mana cheating/insane value cards were way too strong
- hall of fucking fame genn/baku
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
This is mine. I won’t post my twitter account here because I want it relatively anonymous. But if you’re a gourmet who wants to look obviously won’t be that hard.
what if you log in and find that all your classic set cards, the only ones you have that are in the standard rotation, are all nerfed and shitty now?
we can't have it both ways, either the classic set is locked in stone so it's always this base to build on, or it's gone. you can't just kill every card in there over time and have it fulfill that role, otherwise people will just be walked over even more than they already would be
it is the year 2030. the year of our lord RNGesus.
fireball and frostbolt now both cost 10 mana. mage just had too much burn available, including the new spell, Burn, which came out this last set.
Burn also costs 10 mana, which does 10 damage to your opponent, 10 damage to your opponent's minions, burns 10 cards in their deck, discards 10 cards from their hand, heals you for 10, gives you 10 armor, summons ten 10/10s with Super-Charge (Charge is so last decade), gives you a 10/10 weapon, and draws you 10 cards.
all mage spells are just 10 mana now. they're just too good.
except pyroblast. pyroblast was nerfed to 20 mana.
it was still seeing so much play at 19 mana, you see. still just in every mage deck.
smdh
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
I mean, how much armor does a person need?!
NOT ENOUGH I GUESS! THAT BEAR WON'T SAVE YOU!!! BWA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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To be fair, Dover never had a problem with Wall Priest. In fact, Dover is 22-13 overall and pushed into rank 3 with it. I'll take it!
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
Steam ID
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What I want is a F2P deck recipe of the week, chosen to try to push the meta game.
Say that Wall Priest is the best performing deck, and you want to tone it down a bit. The next week, Midrange Hunter is the F2P deck. Anyone can play a prebuilt and optimized version of the deck for free. And if they want to keep the deck, they can either buy it at some good price (say, $10 to $20 depending on build cost; any cards you already have you get extra copies of that you can dust) or craft the cards at a 25% to 50% discount. The next week, you target Odd Paladin, and the F2P deck is a Quest Warrior deck. The week after that, Midrange Hunter is on top, so Odd Mage is the F2P deck. And so on and so forth.
Unlike the Whizbang decks, you generally make actual optimized ladder decks. With that said, you occasionally rotate in some fun decks, in part so that you cover each class with some reasonable frequency.
YOU KNOW I'VE BEEN FORUM-NAME-BLIND SINCE THE INCIDENT
DOVER I FUCKING TRUSTED YOU
I FUCKING TRUSTED YOU
AND YOU TOOK THAT TRUST AND STABBED ME IN THE FUCKING BACK WITH IT
I HOPE YOU FALL TO RANK 15 >:OOOOO
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
They never expect Shadow Madness into Backstab lethal.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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6-0 vs Kingsbane so far, they are not fans of Zola'd crabs or ooze into Gnomeferatu after Myra's.
'Limited' is what MTG calls it I think, and yeah, I say keep Standard and Wild the way they are and add a new ranked mode where they can rotate and experiment more frequently.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Hearthstone's take on MTG's "limited" is Arena. "Limited" being basically any mode where you acquire the cards inside the competition itself and build your deck there under some set rules, vs "constructed" where you can freely acquire any legal cards to build your deck prior to entry.
The closest thing MTG had to this was "block" where you would have two or three expansion sets themed around a setting, so its close to a year's worth of cards you can play. It was never remotely as popular as Standard (2-year rotation like HS) and I don't think they have supported it for quite some time.
In fact when they tried to shift standard to a more regular 18-month rotation, with 2 sets leaving every 6 months, the playerbase revolted. They were forced to change back to HS style 2-year rotation with sets that had been designed around 18-month rotation, leading to a slew of degenerate combos cropping up. Still they had to work through that with mass bannings because people losing the use of entire sets so frequently proved to be a bigger problem than a terrible meta. So I don't think more frequent rotation is a particularly good idea and the analogy here is to just nerf more stuff rather than dumping entire sets.
I really feel that rotating 3 sets at a time isn't good for the game. Sure the game feels the best after the new Standard year starts, but that's only because so many cards (and power synergies) leave at once. We could feel that effect every three months with my plan. People would also be more inclined to craft/buy cards that only see play for 18-months currently.
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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and that's super not great if you're a casual player or a new player
if you shrink the "2-year meta" down to a 1-year meta (newest in, oldest out, every time a new expac releases) that suddenly becomes a hell of a lot more manageable (only 3 sets/card packs existing at any given time), a lot easier to balance (Kraken's fucking shadow still looms over the game), and it keeps things feeling fresher.
like, look at Year of the Raven. Witchwood came out, sure sure fine. stuff saw play. but then Boomsday came out and that had the impact of a wet noodle. and then Rastakhan's came out with the impact of a fart in the wind.
do you know why those latter two didn't see much if any play?
Kraken.
Kraken's sets were just THAT much better and, in essence, prevented those two sets from seeing much play or experimentation because why use those when you can just use the old OP stuff instead? hell, new experimental lists with new cards were proving to be performing worse than old lists without any new cards.
i dunno. i feel like the game would be so much better off if they just did it that way instead.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Personally I think a ‘two year meta’ is fine, they just need to introduce more balance levers against the most degenerate combo stuff (more interaction in opposing turns basically)
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Lucky 7s!
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051
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Twitch Page
I really think they need to just bite the bullet and rotate classic out. Keep basic cards in, because most of those are bad to mediocre anyway, and maybe rotate 5-10 classic cards every 4 months to keep things interesting. Yes this also hurts casual players, but it is a much better option from a design point of view then turning everyone's good classic cards into trash tier cards.
I think the new sets haven't succeeded for exactly the reason Dibby says--Kraken sets were too good (and genn/baku). The new ones are probably fine, not necessarily bad, but why play cards that are fine to good when you can play cards that define the state of the game?
More cards per set, higher ratio of class cards to neutral cards, and get core out of there.