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[Mueller Investigation] Manafort "Sentenced"

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Posts

  • RendRend Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Something in there must really have them scared shitless for them to make such a blatant case for tampering
    They don't know what's in there. They're counting on the ignorance of their followers RE: the legal process involved to gain support for this sort of ridiculous shit.

    Well, thanks to Manafort and his team of legal eagles they do know that Muller knows they were sending polling data to Russia to help them coordinate their interference with the election.

    So that’s at least one thing they know is in the report, and that alone should be enough to scare them shitless.
    Then they should be working on a defense / counter-argument, not requesting to tamper with the report directly. :P

    Fraud got them into this mess, and by god they are going to try and use it to get out of it too.

    He died doing what he loved.
    I think we can all take an important lesson from that.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Still say there will be no report, just indictments.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Something in there must really have them scared shitless for them to make such a blatant case for tampering
    They don't know what's in there. They're counting on the ignorance of their followers RE: the legal process involved to gain support for this sort of ridiculous shit.

    Well, thanks to Manafort and his team of legal eagles they do know that Muller knows they were sending polling data to Russia to help them coordinate their interference with the election.

    So that’s at least one thing they know is in the report, and that alone should be enough to scare them shitless.
    Then they should be working on a defense / counter-argument, not requesting to tamper with the report directly. :P

    This is probably them saying they already have a fake report ready to go.

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  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    edited January 11
    Edit: Whoopse, good place thread.

    Schrodinger on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/us/politics/fbi-trump-russia-inquiry.html
    F.B.I. Opened Inquiry Into Whether Trump Was Secretly Working on Behalf of Russia
    WASHINGTON — In the days after President Trump fired James B. Comey as F.B.I. director, law enforcement officials became so concerned by the president’s behavior that they began investigating whether he had been working on behalf of Russia against American interests, according to former law enforcement officials and others familiar with the investigation.
    Agents and senior F.B.I. officials had grown suspicious of Mr. Trump’s ties to Russia during the 2016 campaign but held off on opening an investigation into him, the people said, in part because they were uncertain how to proceed with an inquiry of such sensitivity and magnitude. But the president’s activities before and after Mr. Comey’s firing in May 2017, particularly two instances in which Mr. Trump tied the Comey dismissal to the Russia investigation, helped prompt the counterintelligence aspect of the inquiry, the people said.
    No evidence has emerged publicly that Mr. Trump was secretly in contact with or took direction from Russian government officials. An F.B.I. spokeswoman and a spokesman for the special counsel’s office both declined to comment.
    The first was a letter Mr. Trump wanted to send to Mr. Comey about his firing, but never did, in which he mentioned the Russia investigation. In the letter, Mr. Trump thanked Mr. Comey for previously telling him he was not a subject of the F.B.I.’s Russia investigation.

    Even after the deputy attorney general, Rod J. Rosenstein, wrote a more restrained draft of the letter and told Mr. Trump that he did not have to mention the Russia investigation — Mr. Comey’s poor handling of the Clinton email investigation would suffice as a fireable offense, he explained — Mr. Trump directed Mr. Rosenstein to mention the Russia investigation anyway.

    He disregarded the president’s order, irritating Mr. Trump. The president ultimately added a reference to the Russia investigation to the note he had delivered, thanking Mr. Comey for telling him three times that he was not under investigation.


    The second event that troubled investigators was an NBC News interview two days after Mr. Comey’s firing in which Mr. Trump appeared to say he had dismissed Mr. Comey because of the Russia inquiry.
    F.B.I. officials viewed their decision to move quickly as validated when a comment the president made to visiting Russian officials in the Oval Office shortly after he fired Mr. Comey was revealed days later.

    “I just fired the head of the F.B.I. He was crazy, a real nut job,” Mr. Trump said, according to a document summarizing the meeting. “I faced great pressure because of Russia. That’s taken off.”
    Trump is his own worst enemy in so many ways.

    Couscous on
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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    They don’t say, in that snippet at least, what the FBI conclusion was at the end that investigation...

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  • JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    Money line to me:
    Agents also sought to determine whether Mr. Trump was knowingly working for Russia or had unwittingly fallen under Moscow’s influence.

    ie, he's working for Russia, the question is whether he knew it or not.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Marathon wrote: »
    They don’t say, in that snippet at least, what the FBI conclusion was at the end that investigation...

    I don't see where its stated that the investigation was concluded. So it could still be ongoing.

    Viskod on
    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    They don’t say, in that snippet at least, what the FBI conclusion was at the end that investigation...

    Isn't that investigation still ongoing?

    Heir
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Nvm

    Captain Inertia on
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    They don’t say, in that snippet at least, what the FBI conclusion was at the end that investigation...

    Isn't that investigation still ongoing?

    True, so currently the answer to the question “is the President secretly a Russian asset”, is

    ...maybe?

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Curious if Trump will have time to freak out about that on twitter while also demanding his wall.

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    They don’t say, in that snippet at least, what the FBI conclusion was at the end that investigation...

    Isn't that investigation still ongoing?

    True, so currently the answer to the question “is the President secretly a Russian asset”, is

    ...maybe?

    ^aware

    Secretly aware that he is a Russian asset.

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  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    They don’t say, in that snippet at least, what the FBI conclusion was at the end that investigation...

    I don't see where its stated that the investigation was concluded. So it could still be ongoing.

    It says the investigation was subsumed by Mueller when he was appointed, so in that sense it's ongoing.

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    I see the traditional Friday News Megaton still lives on in 2019.

    I mean, I'm sure the administration's answer to this is "see they're retaliating," except Trump's action of firing was retaliation in the first place. It's an establishment of pattern so suck on that Giuliani.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Marathon wrote: »
    They don’t say, in that snippet at least, what the FBI conclusion was at the end that investigation...

    Isn't that investigation still ongoing?

    True, so currently the answer to the question “is the President secretly a Russian asset”, is

    ...maybe?

    If they're trying to determine whether he is working with them of his own volition or not, it would seem that he definitely IS a Russian asset, and they're just not sure what kind.



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  • JuggernutJuggernut South CurrrrlinaRegistered User regular
    Theres no good answer to that question!

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  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    If this is true, and the Republican party demonstrably had any inkling that it was the case, at a minimum:

    The party is forcibly disbanded

    The NRA (if involved) is forcibly disbanded, all executives incarcerated

    All judges appointed by Trump are given resignation letters to sign, effectively immediately

    All donors placed under investigation, sanctioned and assets frozen if involved



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  • LabelLabel Registered User regular
    If this is true, and the Republican party demonstrably had any inkling that it was the case, at a minimum:

    The party is forcibly disbanded

    The NRA (if involved) is forcibly disbanded, all executives incarcerated

    All judges appointed by Trump are given resignation letters to sign, effectively immediately

    All donors placed under investigation, sanctioned and assets frozen if involved

    I have bad news for you.

    Posted March 17th, 2017.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/house-majority-leader-to-colleagues-in-2016-i-think-putin-pays-trump/2017/05/17/515f6f8a-3aff-11e7-8854-21f359183e8c_story.html?utm_term=.4f0aa530266a
    Ryan mentioned his meeting with Groysman, prompting Rodgers to ask: “How are things going in Ukraine?” according to the recording.

    The situation was difficult, Ryan said. Groysman, he said, had told him that Russian-backed forces were firing 30 to 40 artillery shells into Ukrainian territory every day. And the prime minister described Russian tactics that include “financing our populists, financing people in our governments to undo our governments.”

    Ryan said Russia’s goal was to “turn Ukraine against itself.” Groysman underlined Russia’s intentions, saying, “They’re just going to roll right through us and go to the Baltics and everyone else,” according to Ryan’s summary of the prime minister’s remarks in the recording.

    “Yes,” Rodgers said in agreement, noting that the Russians were funding nongovernmental organizations across Europe as part of a wider “propaganda war.”

    “Maniacal,” Ryan said. “And guess, guess who’s the only one taking a strong stand up against it? We are.”

    Rodgers disagreed. “We’re not . . . we’re not . . . but, we’re not,” she said.

    That’s when McCarthy brought the conversation about Russian meddling around to the DNC hack, Trump and Rohrabacher.

    “I’ll guarantee you that’s what it is. . . . The Russians hacked the DNC and got the opp [opposition] research that they had on Trump,” McCarthy said with a laugh.

    Ryan asked who the Russians “delivered” the opposition research to.

    “There’s . . . there’s two people I think Putin pays: Rohrabacher and Trump,” McCarthy said, drawing some laughter. “Swear to God,” McCarthy added.

    “This is an off the record,” Ryan said.

    Some lawmakers laughed at that.

    “No leaks, all right?,” Ryan said, adding: “This is how we know we’re a real family here.”

    “That’s how you know that we’re tight,” Scalise said.

    “What’s said in the family stays in the family,” Ryan added.

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  • OghulkOghulk biggest externality low-energy economistRegistered User regular
    I don't think the country is in a place where the Republican party will he disbanded without the country falling apart

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  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I don't think the country is in a place where the Republican party will he disbanded without the country falling apart

    There's no mechanism for a party to be "disbanded". This idea is out of the question.

    Abandoned in favor of something else though, that's happened two or three times. It could happen again.

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  • wazillawazilla Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I don't think the country is in a place where the Republican party will he disbanded without the country falling apart

    There's no mechanism for a party to be "disbanded". This idea is out of the question.

    Abandoned in favor of something else though, that's happened two or three times. It could happen again.

    Yeah when has the FBI ever adopted tactics intended to disband political organizations in US history?

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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    wazilla wrote: »
    spool32 wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I don't think the country is in a place where the Republican party will he disbanded without the country falling apart

    There's no mechanism for a party to be "disbanded". This idea is out of the question.

    Abandoned in favor of something else though, that's happened two or three times. It could happen again.

    Yeah when has the FBI ever adopted tactics intended to disband political organizations in US history?

    "Are you or have you ever been a member of the Communist Republican Party?"

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    spool32 wrote: »
    Oghulk wrote: »
    I don't think the country is in a place where the Republican party will he disbanded without the country falling apart

    There's no mechanism for a party to be "disbanded". This idea is out of the question.

    Abandoned in favor of something else though, that's happened two or three times. It could happen again.

    Yeah, that's generally something we'd call "disbanding" once the organization shuts down.

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  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    The disbanding of the Republican party is off topic and is also never going to happen but mostly just off topic.

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  • CogCog Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Couscous wrote: »
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/us/politics/fbi-trump-russia-inquiry.html
    The first was a letter Mr. Trump wanted to send to Mr. Comey about his firing, but never did, in which he mentioned the Russia investigation. In the letter, Mr. Trump thanked Mr. Comey for previously telling him he was not a subject of the F.B.I.’s Russia investigation.

    Even after the deputy attorney general, Rod J. Rosenstein, wrote a more restrained draft of the letter and told Mr. Trump that he did not have to mention the Russia investigation — Mr. Comey’s poor handling of the Clinton email investigation would suffice as a fireable offense, he explained — Mr. Trump directed Mr. Rosenstein to mention the Russia investigation anyway.

    He disregarded the president’s order, irritating Mr. Trump. The president ultimately added a reference to the Russia investigation to the note he had delivered, thanking Mr. Comey for telling him three times that he was not under investigation.
    IDK about you guys, but when I talk to law enforcement, I make super sure, against repeated legal counsel, to thank them for not investigating me for things I totally haven't done.

    Cog on
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  • BrainleechBrainleech Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    The disbanding of the Republican party is off topic and is also never going to happen but mostly just off topic.

    It will vastly change long before it disbands

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    In fairness, for somebody who practically trades on being above reproach, then even the hint of being investigated for conspiring with foreign assets could be very, very bad. Wanting to publicly ensure that you are not under suspicion makes sense.

    Trump, on the other hand, just doesn't want anything to tarnish his public image to the rubes. Everybody else already knows he's full of shit.

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  • JuggernutJuggernut South CurrrrlinaRegistered User regular
    Totally normal. Totally and not colluding-ly normal behavior from an innocent man. Also no collusion.


    President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

    Trump did so after a meeting with Putin in 2017 in Hamburg that was also attended by then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. U.S. officials learned of Trump’s actions when a White House adviser and a senior State Department official sought information from the interpreter beyond a readout shared by Tillerson.

    The constraints that Trump imposed are part of a broader pattern by the president of shielding his communications with Putin from public scrutiny and preventing even high-ranking officials in his own administration from fully knowing what he has told one of the United States’ main adversaries.

    As a result, U.S. officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years. Such a gap would be unusual in any presidency, let alone one that Russia sought to install through what U.S. intelligence agencies have described as an unprecedented campaign of election interference

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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    He’s so open about everything, like when he’s secretly visiting troops in Iraq and blows it up on Twitter, that it’s extremely conspicuous when his behavior becomes discreet

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  • RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Juggernut wrote: »
    Totally normal. Totally and not colluding-ly normal behavior from an innocent man. Also no collusion.


    President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

    Trump did so after a meeting with Putin in 2017 in Hamburg that was also attended by then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. U.S. officials learned of Trump’s actions when a White House adviser and a senior State Department official sought information from the interpreter beyond a readout shared by Tillerson.

    The constraints that Trump imposed are part of a broader pattern by the president of shielding his communications with Putin from public scrutiny and preventing even high-ranking officials in his own administration from fully knowing what he has told one of the United States’ main adversaries.

    As a result, U.S. officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years. Such a gap would be unusual in any presidency, let alone one that Russia sought to install through what U.S. intelligence agencies have described as an unprecedented campaign of election interference

    How is this even legal? I thought there was a presidents records act or something like that?

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    I guess that answers the "unwitting?" question.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Juggernut wrote: »
    Totally normal. Totally and not colluding-ly normal behavior from an innocent man. Also no collusion.


    President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

    Trump did so after a meeting with Putin in 2017 in Hamburg that was also attended by then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. U.S. officials learned of Trump’s actions when a White House adviser and a senior State Department official sought information from the interpreter beyond a readout shared by Tillerson.

    The constraints that Trump imposed are part of a broader pattern by the president of shielding his communications with Putin from public scrutiny and preventing even high-ranking officials in his own administration from fully knowing what he has told one of the United States’ main adversaries.

    As a result, U.S. officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years. Such a gap would be unusual in any presidency, let alone one that Russia sought to install through what U.S. intelligence agencies have described as an unprecedented campaign of election interference

    How is this even legal? I thought there was a presidents records act or something like that?

    It's not. The point is who's going to stop him? Need 20 Senate Republicans to remove the bastard.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • PLAPLA The process.Registered User regular
    "Is the president sapient enough to commit crimes?" sure is a thing to wonder about.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    RickRude wrote: »
    Juggernut wrote: »
    Totally normal. Totally and not colluding-ly normal behavior from an innocent man. Also no collusion.


    President Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to conceal details of his conversations with Russian President Vladi­mir Putin, including on at least one occasion taking possession of the notes of his own interpreter and instructing the linguist not to discuss what had transpired with other administration officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

    Trump did so after a meeting with Putin in 2017 in Hamburg that was also attended by then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. U.S. officials learned of Trump’s actions when a White House adviser and a senior State Department official sought information from the interpreter beyond a readout shared by Tillerson.

    The constraints that Trump imposed are part of a broader pattern by the president of shielding his communications with Putin from public scrutiny and preventing even high-ranking officials in his own administration from fully knowing what he has told one of the United States’ main adversaries.

    As a result, U.S. officials said there is no detailed record, even in classified files, of Trump’s face-to-face interactions with the Russian leader at five locations over the past two years. Such a gap would be unusual in any presidency, let alone one that Russia sought to install through what U.S. intelligence agencies have described as an unprecedented campaign of election interference

    How is this even legal? I thought there was a presidents records act or something like that?

    It's not. The point is who's going to stop him? Need 20 Senate Republicans to remove the bastard.

    Which is what happens with every Republican who destroys records like this.

    And if you wanna do some looking up you will find plenty of examples.

    YoutubemonikerGnome-InterruptusMatev
  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    But his e-mails?

    PreacherArmorocTicaldfjamfightinfilipinoMidnitemonikernever dieApogeechromdomMatevemp123
  • SchrodingerSchrodinger Registered User regular
    So I just realized something.

    Does Putin not know English?

    Why did they need an interpreter?

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    So I just realized something.

    Does Putin not know English?

    Why did they need an interpreter?

    He does. You bring an interpreter because it makes sure you don't miss anything and because it can provide more control over the conversation.

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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    shryke wrote: »
    So I just realized something.

    Does Putin not know English?

    Why did they need an interpreter?

    He does. You bring an interpreter because it makes sure you don't miss anything and because it can provide more control over the conversation.

    There is so much nuance when you speak in your native language that it helps having a professional there also. Simple turns of phrase could launch missiles were they misunderstood.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
    FencingsaxElvenshaeTicaldfjammonikerThawmus
  • JuggernutJuggernut South CurrrrlinaRegistered User regular
    edited January 13
    There seems to be two right wing talking points regarding this: The first is that Trump is totally within his right to do this because the big bad ole meany intelligence community is out to make him look bad by leaking so hes actually an incredible diplomat and also sexy probably. The other is that he cant concentrate and build a rapport with all those aids in the room so he kicks them out. This is dumb but also lines up with the fact that Trump has the cognitive ability of a barnacle and can't have too much stimuli around him at once.

    I wonder if there's an evidence hes done this with literally any other world leader hes met with? My guess is, no.

    Edit: another little gem in that article is that the IC hasn't really wanted to go back over records of prior meetings to study them because Trump and Kushner are universally hated. Most reports of activity from different governments after a meeting are full of disparaging comments about the two so they don't want to hurt Donnys feewings.

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