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How to provide escape and assistance for an abused kid from a distance

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Posts

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Thank you for the action plan. That helps immensely.

    ElvenshaeceresDisruptedCapitalist
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I called CPS last night as soon as I was home from work (around 1am). An investigator followed up with me today to ask some questions, so they are investigating at least.

    NightDragonElvenshaeBliss 101JaysonFourOrcaRhesus PositiveCelestialBadgerceresTNTrooperGonmunDaenrisNightslyrCelloCalicaknitdanGnizmo
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    So Strum is a complete piece of shit. If this whole thing hadn't come to my attention I would have gone through life thinking he was a kindly, intelligent, loving man! MLM reported that Shitlord has a meeting scheduled with CPS today. She said she didn't know who had called them, but was glad they were called and didn't think it should be investigated as to who had done it. Strum came in and said it was "borderline dishonoring your mother and father" to have called CPS. Fuck you, you gigantic shit stain. I used to respect you!

  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Hoooooooooowwwwww

    What is the reasoning there

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    CambiataJaysonFourElvenshaeGnizmo
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited February 5
    Seriously, what is the logic? What does it have to do with your parents? Where could that even possibly come into play? I don't

    I mean of all the things an apologist could say, I just didn't see that one coming

    Also seriously, I'm proud of you though.

    ceres on
    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    CelloDisruptedCapitalistElvenshae
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited February 5
    Because my mom didn't want CPS to get called at all, period (though I already told her that whatever she or anyone else thinks I was going to call CPS eventually). Strum also didn't want them called. Because I guess they have this idea of CPS as a big bogeyman who are going to steal everything you love and kill your children, because they don't live in the real world. But I thought Strum lived in the real world. Guess I was wrong about that one.

    I'm actually now wondering if Strum has some issues that I didn't suspect before because I wasn't raised with him (he was an adult and out of the house when I was a toddler). Like he's OK with just... I dunno, winging it with Kid and letting the chips fall where they may, doesn't seem to worry that Kid could commit suicide or other self-harm in this situation, makes me wonder what kind of father he was to his kids. Or maybe if his wife had/has issues and he's an enabler. I never would have suspected anything of the kind before now, but he's just so goddamn blase about knowing that Shitlord is abusing and thinking that calling authorities is the worst thing you can do. His kids are all adults now so it's academic, but christ man I thought you were normal.

    Edit: Though I guess the other side of it is that my father was A LOT more abusive when Strum was a child (from what I have heard), and so it may just be from a position of wanting to protect his own beliefs that our father isn't abusive that goes into his thinking. Probably he's thinking "if CPS had gotten involved in our house when I was a child I probably would have been taken away and that's not good so it's not good for Kid either."

    Cambiata on
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Some people are just really hardcore with their denial, so the thought of outsiders looking in makes them incredibly uncomfortable for a ton of reasons, whether or not a problem is found.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    CambiataJaysonFourSiskaNightDragon
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited February 5
    ceres wrote: »
    Some people are just really hardcore with their denial, so the thought of outsiders looking in makes them incredibly uncomfortable for a ton of reasons, whether or not a problem is found.

    Yeah this is super true of our family. It's why my parents thought it was better to bring a gun to a confrontation with Shitlord instead of asking police to do a wellness check, because in our family you NEVER ask for outside help, period, anything is better than that. I just figured that - like me - once siblings got out in the world and started working with other humans and developing their own thoughts outside of our parents' propaganda, that they, too, would have a less severe idea of outside services and how they can help. I would especially assume that a man 20 years my senior would have a wiser, more circumspect view of the world than Strum has so far shown himself to have.

    Cambiata on
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    edited February 5
    Or if we're being super charitable, he's a survivor who's now just seem the whole system completely turned up on it's head and has lapsed into defensive mode. This never happened to him, but if something came close that was then kind of hushed up, he's seeing a gamble on a near miss failing being the stuff that brings the Bad thing.

    Less denial but more - this way gets you through. Opposition gets you hit and fallout is random.

    Not saying you did the wrong thing (opposite even), but if he went through what you suspect - he's acting the way you'd expect. There's no malice, he's just reacting how a child in that circumstance tries to protect another child.
    Don't make a fuss, cover for each other, keep quiet and survive - which obviously worked for him, if that's the case. But if you're not sure of rescue, or if rescue is even seen as a worse scenario (government takes you and splits you up), then I'd not imagine that you'd react rationally to encountering the same situation as an adult. Especially if you're just encountering it sporadically.

    20 years is a very long time, he's grown up with this as a thing that was never spoken about, he's had no one to talk to about it or anyone to see his side of the story. And he's not going to easily see himself now as someone in that situation because of 20+ years of his own coping mechanisms and his first exposure to thinking about this again will be in regard to children when he's an adult.

    If what you think is true, he's been through this before - but the only recourse he had was to keep quiet. For 20 years. This whole thing was never going to be clean, and there's fallout that dates back generations.
    So be ready to act if you must, but be sure before you act and most of all, be kind when you do.

    Tastyfish on
    CambiataElvenshaespool32
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Tastyfish wrote: »
    Or if we're being super charitable, he's a survivor who's now just seem the whole system completely turned up on it's head and has lapsed into defensive mode. This never happened to him, but if something came close that was then kind of hushed up, he's seeing a gamble on a near miss failing being the stuff that brings the Bad thing.

    Less denial but more - this way gets you through. Opposition gets you hit and fallout is random.

    Not saying you did the wrong thing (opposite even), but if he went through what you suspect - he's acting the way you'd expect. There's no malice, he's just reacting how a child in that circumstance tries to protect another child.
    Don't make a fuss, cover for each other, keep quiet and survive - which obviously worked for him, if that's the case. But if you're not sure of rescue, or if rescue is even seen as a worse scenario (government takes you and splits you up), then I'd not imagine that you'd react rationally to encountering the same situation as an adult. Especially if you're just encountering it sporadically.

    This makes a lot of sense, and is probably very close to the truth. I don't really believe he could be an abuser himself (and his children all seem well-adjusted and happy with their adult lives), but I know for a fact that my father was incredibly hard to live with when he was younger, and all of Strum's coping mechanisms would probably default to cover instead of heal. And certainly we've never talked as a family about how dad is an abuser and mom should probably divorce him, and he'd probably figure what's the point of bringing it up now that our parents are in their 80s? That was a long time ago, Strum's lived too long a certain way for him to decide now is the time to change without a huge slap in the face. Like if he happened to be present when Shitlord didn't know anyone was there, happened to actually see Shitlord in action, he might have a different view (because Shitlord is way worse than what my dad dished out). So his current view is likely of a world that is "too sensitive" in wanting to call things abuse that can be explained in other ways, and probably Cambiata is a drama queen anyway, and after all Shitlord needs help more than anything else, etc.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    So confirmation from another sibling, but the "borderline not honoring your father and mother" line was apparently aimed directly at me, because Strum is still mad at me because I lashed out at him for the "I have heard no strong evidence of abuse" line. What a fucking toolbag. You imply I lied about being abused, and you get to be the one who's mad. Advice from Sunshine, the only one who knows that I was the one who called, is that I don't tell the family that I called CPS. Shitlord has apparently threatened MLM that he'll call her workplace and her husband's workplace if she calls CPS on him. My parents were sure it was MLM who did it, to the point that my mom asked her five times if she had been the one to call CPS on the call she had with them yesterday. I'm amazed they didn't even think it might have been me, despite me assuring them that it would happen eventually. I guess my Mom and Dad are used to me obeying them. I'm also a 'golden child' (as is Strum, I believe) so even if they found out I did it I wouldn't get as much shit for it, they'd assume I was misguided or blame one of the scapegoats for negatively influencing me.

    The thing is, Shitlord does pose a credible threat to my work, and since I'm head of household and having my career impacted affects my and my husband's quality of life. I also think him capable of stalking though I haven't experienced that from him yet in my life. On the other hand, Shitlord is notoriously lazy and incapable, and I don't even know if he'd be able to figure out how to find out where to call to get to my work - though he does know, or can easily find out, at what company I work. My facebook is private and I blocked him ages ago, though he still has my Linkedin but that doesn't include phone numbers or addresses. I dunno, me cutting him out of my life (a few years back) was surprisingly painless, there wasn't even an extinction burst. The only times he's ever been weird is when I'm there in person and he follows me around and jumps into every conversation I'm having. The lack of involvement when I'm not right in front of him could be because of extreme laziness and lack of interest in learning (for example) how to google people. Everything has always been done for him, except for his art degrees - art being the only area where he's shown a willingness to put himself out of his way in order to attain something. Looking at dysfunctional family roles, to my parents I may have been the golden child, but to my brother maybe I was more of a Lost Child, quietly keeping to myself and not really a good narc supply, which is why he didn't care when I exited his life. Perhaps I was a non-entity to him.

    Keeping this secret means not letting my mom know about it (since she will let everyone know, if she knows), which is going to be hard for me if she asks because I'm a bad liar, especially with her. But Sunshine has given me some lines to feed her to allay suspicion, and thus far she hasn't asked. I'll say I'm pretty surprised at that, I did expect more than just Strum's one bitter line, I expected a deluge of calls once CPS' involvement was known (I was dreading it all weekend). Sunshine even redirected Strum by saying, "how do you know it was a family member who called?" Since I failed to react to Strum's bait, he may be doubting whether it was actually me or not.

  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    I don't if this is good advice, but maybe giving Sunshine the suggestion to point out to Strum that school would have had to report it if they suspected anything? I don't know if giving them another "other" to rage about would help or hurt in this situation.

    "The shore does not dream of you." - Blind poet Gallan.
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    I don't if this is good advice, but maybe giving Sunshine the suggestion to point out to Strum that school would have had to report it if they suspected anything? I don't know if giving them another "other" to rage about would help or hurt in this situation.

    I think just pointing out that someone else could have called was enough. And school is the obvious answer as to who might have called, since Kid has both is regular teachers and some special ed teachers - a lot of people around him at school to notice if something was off.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    One thing most of my family hasn't considered, that I think is highly possible: If kid is legally taken away from Shitlord, it's entirely possible that he would prefer that way of life, as long as he was still allowed to see his kid. Shitlord is the primary caregiver. If someone were able to take over that duty - again while still allowing him to play with his son when he wanted to - I doubt he would really object; if there were some way to propose the idea to him without triggering his paranoia. Shitlord is allergic to responsibility, someone offering to take some of his responsibility away would be a godsend. I doubt Pillar would even ask for child support, relieving Shitlord's (really Music's) financial burden as well. Maybe at some future date I can propose it to Pillar. It may be a hard sell to those who still think Shitlord feels things the way they do. Especially since I don't have kids myself, they may say that I don't understand how a parent feels.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited February 6
    Also I hope it's ok to use this thread for me to vent a little because JFC, you guys.

    My dad is apparently "depressed" that someone called CPS. FUNNY YOU DIDN'T HAVE THAT REACTION WHEN YOU PULLED A GUN ON YOUR SON.

    I had a whole argument in my head yesterday (which naturally I couldn't share with any of the participants because it would have been worse than useless) where I was like, "ok so you're feelings are hurt. Would you like a cookie? A pint of ice cream? Maybe while you're enjoying those we can focus on SAVING A CHILD."

    But then that self-argument turned into, you know I don't want to devalue that people have emotional reactions, that emotions are important, because the entire reason emotional abuse is harmful is because emotions can do some crazy shit. So yes, family, please all of you get a therapist (including me) and talk for as long as you want about your emotions and how your family members have hurt you, but for God's sake can we please multitask and also save a child.

    Cambiata on
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    Okay you don't need to do anything here. Nobody except the one person right now knows who called. Whoever wants to can scream into the void about it, but it doesn't matter. It won't do anything, and unless you can provide the kid with direct help what happens with him from here isn't up to you anymore. Is there someone you can call from the office you reported to who you can keep apprised of the situation as it unfolds? Maybe you can forward texts or something, I don't know. Don't go yelling at people, just keep your damn head down right now, you've done what you can. Don't give people more targets, don't engage in speculation, none of it will help right now and might make things much worse.

    Waiting is hard, but that's what you need to do right now. If you have concerns about your privacy or safety or career or anyone else's, call the person you spoke with from CPS and ask the best course of action, and then do that. Maybe they've run into "what is my recourse if someone threatens my employment over this?" and can help. If you don't feel like you can effectively lie to your mom, do what you can to avoid her until the heat dies down. Let things take their course.

    Maybe one of the people here who deal with this for a living wouldn't mind giving some input here, because all I can think here is that if you let it slip that it was you somehow you give others in your family a way to sabotage the whole thing.

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    CambiataJaysonFour
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I have a number from the investigator, yeah. I'll try calling them tomorrow. I actually did try calling local police tonight to see about advice but they said "consult a lawyer" or wait until the office regarding threats (something like that?) was open tomorrow and call them. What kind of lawyer would I consult, if I did want to ask for legal advice? No threats have yet been made to me personally as I'm not a known target yet. Mom hasn't called me and I have no plans to call her, so I probably won't hear from her again until a time of my choosing.

    And yeah any CPS people who can offer advice personal experience here please chime in.

  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    So I guess I am a little lost on what insight is being requested. Best way to deal with a relative threatening to fuck with employment? Genuinely I have nothing for that. I am certain shit like this happened in cases I was involved in, but I never had direct contact with it. I honestly would not have had the time to begin to be involved in that even if I wanted to. Your best bet probably is a lawyer, but I dunno what kind. A letter from a lawyer might resolve it, or it might escalate given what you have said here. Any lawyer should be able to direct you to the correct specialty.

    Updates? So I had a real love/hate relationship with that. In this case I have the benefit of knowing it is a person acting in good faith and that always made it easier. I loved having more information to help keep the kid safe. I hated having to spend time getting it, but only because I was so damned busy. I say this so you know that if you get sent to voicemail, or the person sounds exhausted by it all it's not because of you. The job just requires (at least here and I assume other places) an obscene amount of work and the feeling of being overworked can bleed into every conversation at times. I will say that typically removal is either really fast, or not at all. The only exceptions I know about involved cases where someone went to the house, told the family this is what needs to happen, and then CPS learns the family didn't follow the plan. So updated info can very much impact how this case plays out over the long term.

    I will say that I liked knowing how shitty extended family was and especially so in extreme circumstances. Often this was because I was figuring out who was going to perpetuate the problem and who I could count on to make positive changes.

    CambiataceresFryCalica
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    edited February 6
    Well regarding how to deal with potential harassment, I guess that is really a question for a broader set of disciplines than just CPS people. Like I was wondering if I should let my boss know, "hey, I have a brother that is experiencing some sort of episode right now and he has threatened to call the workplace(s) of family members to harass them, just letting you know in case you get calls like that, though he does not have your number." Additionally I have heard of people letting the police know "here's my address, I have the potential of being SWATed, letting you know in advance." and that actually saving someone from being SWATed (but I have no idea of Shitlord even knows what SWATing is, he's probably not that savvy). Or am I making things worse by anticipating something that may never come?

    As far as requesting updates from the investigator, would they actually be able to give it to me or is that information private? Or do you mean me updating the worker with addt'l info? I'll certainly give them any info that comes my way, and I'd certainly like to have some information as to what they find and what action plan they might put the family through (so that I can do whatever I can do on my end to help that action plan! And then inform on them if they don't follow the action plan!)

    Edit: Oh wait, I actually do have something I can tell the investigator: that my parents went to the CPS meeting specifically to make sure Music didn't say anything incriminating about Shitlord.

    Cambiata on
  • ceresceres When the last moon is cast over the last star of morning And the future has past without even a last desperate warningRegistered User, Moderator mod
    oh ffs

    And it seems like all is dying, and would leave the world to mourn
    ElvenshaeBrodyFryCalicaspool32
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    In my state the reporter is allowed to find out the results of the investigation, but usually not specifics. And like someone said earlier, removal is usually fairly immediate, or because someone didnt follow a course of action. And i would probably tell the investigator about trying to prevent disclosures. Standard practice for my state is to always talk to people alone so they arent influenced by others, but that might not be universal.

    3ds FC: 0645 - 7166 - 9801
    Gnizmo
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    I left a message with the investigator about my parents attempts to suppress the wife. I'll just keep my head down at this point and hope for info through the family grapevine.

  • Descendant XDescendant X Hank Facepunch Registered User regular
    It probably wouldn't be the worst idea to give your employer a head's up just to make sure he knows what's going on. If I got a call about one of my employees and the caller started talking shit about them, I would be extremely confused and would definitely rather know that kind of a train might be coming.

    Just my two cents.

    Something used to be here. It's gone now.
    see317ceresNightDragonElvenshaespool32
  • GnizmoGnizmo Registered User regular
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    In my state the reporter is allowed to find out the results of the investigation, but usually not specifics. And like someone said earlier, removal is usually fairly immediate, or because someone didnt follow a course of action. And i would probably tell the investigator about trying to prevent disclosures. Standard practice for my state is to always talk to people alone so they arent influenced by others, but that might not be universal.

    The only exceptions we had to interviewing alone were a specific type of report that was really low priority. Like low to the point that they didn't track them actively. I think it's universal, but I guess I could be wrong. Everything else is how it works here.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    One thing I really wish I could find out is that, assuming they give Shitlord an action plan, I'd really like to know what the action plan is (so I can report on it not being followed, since I doubt it will be). But I guess I'll have to see what I can get out of family for that.

  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    Second vote for pre-preemptively telling your employer. Start with HR and then ask for a meeting with your boss and HR. Keep details to a minimum and be confident:

    "Someone in my extended family is abusing their kid, and CPS is now involved. This person has threatened to call the family members' jobs and trash them in retaliation, so I just wanted you to be aware that this is a thing going on in the event you start getting weird calls about me."

  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    Cambiata wrote: »
    One thing I really wish I could find out is that, assuming they give Shitlord an action plan, I'd really like to know what the action plan is (so I can report on it not being followed, since I doubt it will be). But I guess I'll have to see what I can get out of family for that.

    That seems like that could be a really risky thing to do (giving out the plan to other family members) when you don't know all the details. There's a lot of well meaning (and less well meaning) motivation that can come up in this kind of situation, that making the "pass/fail" criteria very public this soon is going to invite a lot of influence from people who've already made their mind up about what is best and what will happen. Temptation for everyone to try to work the system would be just too much.

    100% not saying this is your case, but I can see why the authorities are generally cagey about giving out this kind of specifics. I know there's no way I'd just sit and nod and say OK, I'd be keeping tabs and gathering as much specifically relevant information as I could despite the obvious bias. If only to refute someone with the complete opposite bias trying the manufacture a "everything is fine now" result.

    You work for a relatively large company? Might find that your HR department has some contacts that might be useful, if you're lucky you'll find there plugged into a web of useful people for exactly this kind of thing. Mental health and well being are certainly hot topics and the moment, and there's a lot of overlapping spheres there with more specialist support groups. If you've got a good HR person they'll probably relish the idea of being able to help out a bit on the pastoral side of things as opposed to just keeping on top of training records and addresses etc. Might be able to put you in contact with someone useful, or even just another HR person who's dealt with the angrier side of this before and might have some suggestions on how to raise this with your supervisor etc.

    ThroHappylilElf
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