はじめまして!Let’s learn a new language!

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  • sarukunsarukun Mr. Bulldopps Get SchwiftyRegistered User regular
    “Morashichatta” sounds way more like something someone would actually say.

    “unko ‘o morashita” sounds like a sentence from a textbook.

  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    So over in the anime thread the question was asked, “how does one say ‘shart’ in Japanese.” I’m of the opinion that no utterance is without use in one’s target language, and so I began an exhaustive search online. No direct equivalent exists, so we must look at describing a similar situation, in this case shitting one’s pants, and see if there is an equivalent expression. This is the answer I found from a native speaker:
    表現の仕方は色々あるからこれだ!とは言えないけど、しちゃったという表現ではなくて、漏らした。とか漏らしちゃった。の方が自然かも!
    そして、英語の表現特有の私のジーンズの中に(into my jeans)の表現を入れない方が自然です。
    なので、うんこ漏らした。
    うんこ漏らしちゃった。
    だと思います。
    たまにクソ漏らしたという人もいます。(これはものすごくきたない表現で、使う人も男の人が大半です。)

    So “unko wo morashita”, literally “shit leaked out” is the closest equivalent, but the more natural way would be “Morashichatta” (it leaked out, dammit!). And now you know if you’re ever in a situation where you need to explain, 「非常出なくちゃ、うんこ漏らすだぞ!」

    Since youve seen the anime that spurred my question, maybe you could check the translators accuracy since she actually says (according to the translation) "A Shart". I just am terrible at picking up the individual words by ear, and i presume if you are more familiar with the language that you might be better at it.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    sarukun wrote: »
    “Morashichatta” sounds way more like something someone would actually say.

    “unko ‘o morashita” sounds like a sentence from a textbook.
    So “unko wo morashita”, literally “shit leaked out” is the closest equivalent, but the more natural way would be “Morashichatta” (it leaked out, dammit!). And now you know if you’re ever in a situation where you need to explain, 「非常出なくちゃ、うんこ漏らすだぞ!」

    I mean, that’s what I said, isn’t it?
    azith28 wrote: »
    Since youve seen the anime that spurred my question, maybe you could check the translators accuracy since she actually says (according to the translation) "A Shart". I just am terrible at picking up the individual words by ear, and i presume if you are more familiar with the language that you might be better at it.

    Is this the Wasteful Days of High School Girls? I haven’t actually watched it unfortunately. If you can send me a video or episode/time stamp I’ll take a look.

    I don’t want to have too much bleed-over between this and the anime thread, but I took a Pokémon quiz yesterday on their Japanese site. Should be easy enough for anyone who’s through Genki I & II:
    https://www.pokemon.co.jp/corporate/job/pokemoncenter/special/

    It’s a bunch of questions that determine what kind of Pokémon you are, and you can answer each one with はい、いいえ、どちらかといえばはい、or どちらかといえばいいえ.

    I’ve never seen the どちらか construct before, but it wasn’t too hard to guess “either” and といえば is “if I said” but putting it all together, “If I said either, yes/no” was a little weird. I went online and found that it’s a rote phrase meaning “If I had to say” or “If pushed I’d say”. I found the explanation on a site called linguee.com, so check that out as it seems pretty useful.

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
    sarukun
  • sarukunsarukun Mr. Bulldopps Get SchwiftyRegistered User regular
    You definitely did, I was agreeing!

    italianranma
  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    Oh, my bad. I often feel as though I do a poor job of communicating via text, especially on this forum. Speaking of miscommunication, I moved into a Japanese apartment this week with my relatively low Japanese proficiency (I’m a between a JLPT 4 & 3 right now). The struggle is real: I probably spent about 45 minutes asking if I was allowed to park in the parking space I’m renting. Something about the way the welcome desk attendant was agreeing with me made me unsure. She really wanted to make sure I knew where the moving van was allowed to park, and I wasn’t apparently agreeing with her with enough certainty.

    It turned out I was right to be concerned because the letting agency hadn’t provided me with the proper documentation of my parking space, which a quick phone call cleared up. Moving’s hard enough without the language barrier! I just got my water/gas/electricity set up, and right now I’m doing a quick study session on words I’ll need to buy furniture and appliances and schedule delivery.

    I don’t really have anywhere else to vent about this, but my Japanese friends who I was counting on to help with this whole process have been singularly unhelpful. Like, you all promised me that you’d help me get settled in, and I brought some pretty nice gifts from America knowing I’d be taking advantage of that help. I’m pretty laid back and tolerant most of the time, but I’m feeling a bit betrayed right now. Is it too much to ask for some vocabulary tips and maybe a little over-the-phone interpretation? Sure it 15 years ago but I sure spent a lot of time correcting English papers and helping them with landlord and other negotiations. :(

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
    sarukunPeasSlacker71
  • sarukunsarukun Mr. Bulldopps Get SchwiftyRegistered User regular
    edited August 2019
    お疲れ様でした!Seems kind of unusual that they didn’t make more of an effort to help you. It takes all kinds, but usually that’s the sort of thing Japanese friends are all about helping with.

    sarukun on
  • italianranmaitalianranma Registered User regular
    Luckily one of them just got back to me. Of course of the three she’s the only one married with kids. The other two are still bachelors, so they’ve got no excuse!

    飛べねぇ豚はただの豚だ。
  • PeasPeas Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    【七月半】How哥宇宙 (Official Music Video)

    3:10

    團長&Bass - HowHow
    主唱 - 蔡阿嘎
    吉他手 - 馬叔叔
    吉他手 - 蔡哥
    鼓手 - 阿傑


    **English subs available

    Peas on
    5myiokloks5d.png
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    I will miss animal crossing new leaf on my Japanese n3ds as it's been a useful tool to teach my brother how to read Japanese kanji,hiragana and katakana.

    as he said today he does hope in Ac for the switch you can change the language to deutsche as he like I is quite rusty with written deutsche.

  • sarukunsarukun Mr. Bulldopps Get SchwiftyRegistered User regular
    Wait, why is there a big old aerial photo of Taiwan.

    What is this show!?

    Peas
  • PeasPeas Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    It's a music video by an online Taiwan band
    Cool huh
    The lyrics are from a book for learning japanese

    Peas on
    5myiokloks5d.png
    sarukun
  • sarukunsarukun Mr. Bulldopps Get SchwiftyRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    While I am heartbroken that it is not a real TV show, it is a super cool video and a hilarious idea.
    Edit- I remember there was a British Band that did a similar thing with learning Taiwanese, lemme see if I can find it....

    EditEdit: I was close, it's a song about not being able to speak Mandarin well.

    sarukun on
    Peas
  • JuggernutJuggernut Registered User regular
    Trying to get more French media in my diet for immersion purposes. Found a neat cooking channel with short recipe videos called 750 Grammes. Threw on CC for french subtitles so I could read along and hahaha

    Hoo boy

    I have got a ways to go. That said I'm able to pick out bits I recognize and then based on what's happening on screen I can kind of piece together the gist of the sentences. I think it's a pretty good way to learn because you're watching native speaker narrating their actions instead of just talking about something, so theres a very clear framework for the words you're reading and hearing. That said, it's all happening very fast so I don't have a lot of time to ruminate and pick stuff apart.

  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Damn I have completely dropped posting in this thread. 😥

    I am still learning, just chipping away. I really oughta get myself signed up for some classes next year. I'll have a look for some night classes and do those.

  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Oh, I might as well share a word instead of just complaining. "Waipiro" piro (stinking/rotten) wai (water). The word for alcohol. I love words that make you nod your head and say "yes, this makes sense to me, alcohol is stinky water". Unlike "alcohol" which has a nonsensical etymology. Coming from a word for fine powder used for makeup? Which is interesting but doesnt really connect in my brain like waipiro does.

    I've looked for night classes. No luck yet, theres one but i need to give them a call as the info is a bit out of date and I'm uncertain if it is still running.

    sarukun
  • sarukunsarukun Mr. Bulldopps Get SchwiftyRegistered User regular
    English is a language built upon the incestuous political fuckery of Europe.

    It is weird and beautiful in its own way, but it is basically the C'thulhu script of Earth.

    kimeBrainleech
  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    So, does anyone have recommendations for a good place to get started learning a language? I was interested in learning Japanese (for a lot of reasons) and I took a summer introductory course that, like almost all of the French I learned for years in school, I have forgotten almost in its entirety.

    Lord_Asmodeus.gifLord_Asmodeus2.gifz1i30sg.png
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    The kanji for like/suki still feels really weird and wrong.

  • godmodegodmode Nooo-ooo-ooo... That ain't dancin', SallyRegistered User regular
    So, does anyone have recommendations for a good place to get started learning a language? I was interested in learning Japanese (for a lot of reasons) and I took a summer introductory course that, like almost all of the French I learned for years in school, I have forgotten almost in its entirety.

    It depends on your goals and learning style. For instance, if you just want to be able to read Japanese and maybe listen to dialogue in Japanese shows, you're probably going to want different resources than if you were trying to live in Japan and communicate back and forth. That may also change with your target cost for learning: you can learn a whole lot with free resources, but you also have the choice of hiring a tutor or paying for other classes.
    My personal goal is to live in Japan and communicate effectively, to include speaking, listening, and reading. Writing is sort of tangential to reading for me since I'm not ever going to need to do a lot of writing in Japanese, but it does help solidify kanji in my mind. So I took a 6-month Japanese basics course through my office, then I found out our teacher also works with another language school near my apartment so I decided to continue individual classes with her. We meet twice a week and we're going through the Genki textbooks. This helps my reading and writing, and she and I practice speaking together. On top of that, I use WaniKani (when I remember to), and sometimes Anki for really targeted subjects.
    I have started and then stopped using: Rosetta Stone (The Rosetta Stone method does not work very well for Japanese, in my and some of my colleagues' opinions), LingoDeer (Not bad, but I have a habit of getting bored before I get to the useful sections of the step-by-step apps), and Duolingo (Same as LingoDeer)
    If you have any specific questions I may be able to help, but step one I think is to think about what you want to do with Japanese and then honestly assess your learning skill and that will help focus how to get there.

  • Lord_AsmodeusLord_Asmodeus goeticSobriquet: Here is your magical cryptic riddle-tumour: I AM A TIME MACHINERegistered User regular
    godmode wrote: »
    So, does anyone have recommendations for a good place to get started learning a language? I was interested in learning Japanese (for a lot of reasons) and I took a summer introductory course that, like almost all of the French I learned for years in school, I have forgotten almost in its entirety.

    It depends on your goals and learning style. For instance, if you just want to be able to read Japanese and maybe listen to dialogue in Japanese shows, you're probably going to want different resources than if you were trying to live in Japan and communicate back and forth. That may also change with your target cost for learning: you can learn a whole lot with free resources, but you also have the choice of hiring a tutor or paying for other classes.
    My personal goal is to live in Japan and communicate effectively, to include speaking, listening, and reading. Writing is sort of tangential to reading for me since I'm not ever going to need to do a lot of writing in Japanese, but it does help solidify kanji in my mind. So I took a 6-month Japanese basics course through my office, then I found out our teacher also works with another language school near my apartment so I decided to continue individual classes with her. We meet twice a week and we're going through the Genki textbooks. This helps my reading and writing, and she and I practice speaking together. On top of that, I use WaniKani (when I remember to), and sometimes Anki for really targeted subjects.
    I have started and then stopped using: Rosetta Stone (The Rosetta Stone method does not work very well for Japanese, in my and some of my colleagues' opinions), LingoDeer (Not bad, but I have a habit of getting bored before I get to the useful sections of the step-by-step apps), and Duolingo (Same as LingoDeer)
    If you have any specific questions I may be able to help, but step one I think is to think about what you want to do with Japanese and then honestly assess your learning skill and that will help focus how to get there.

    While eventually I might want to go to Japan on vacation or something and not be totally out of my depth, that'd be a bit of a far off goal and not something that's really my focus. Honestly at this stage being able to read it and understand Japanese dialogue in T.V. shows and music and the like is more my immediate focus, my feeling is sort of that if I ever want to be able to converse in the language and communicate in it at some later point, having at least some solid earlier basis to work from wouldn't hurt but it's not where I'm at, goals wise right now. As for my learning skill, it's hard to say. I mean I took French for years, and the only thing I remember how to say in French is "I can't speak French". I wouldn't say I have a knack for languages, but I'm not sure how to assess my skill in general outside of that.

    Lord_Asmodeus.gifLord_Asmodeus2.gifz1i30sg.png
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    you know a certain song in French I feel many do

    You know Tres Chic as well as well as other phrases English took

  • sarukunsarukun Mr. Bulldopps Get SchwiftyRegistered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    The kanji for like/suki still feels really weird and wrong.

    China has been a patriarchy for a looooooooooong time.

    Brainleech
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Kanji is easy to learn when you find out how it works
    That was one of the more mind blowing things when I learned it in the Corps

  • sarukunsarukun Mr. Bulldopps Get SchwiftyRegistered User regular
    Radicals make Chinese possible.

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    ..... I'd be up for learning whatever magic makes Kanji/Chinese characters easy to remember. That's never been easy for me.

    PA HotS Group
    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
    joshofalltrades
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited November 2019
    I find writing them down in the proper stroke order helps a ton plus. Just learning them will get you to notice the basic parts like the billion kanji that use the sun kanji.

    Also using different fonts so I get used to the variations is helpful.

    Couscous on
  • godmodegodmode Nooo-ooo-ooo... That ain't dancin', SallyRegistered User regular
    godmode wrote: »
    So, does anyone have recommendations for a good place to get started learning a language? I was interested in learning Japanese (for a lot of reasons) and I took a summer introductory course that, like almost all of the French I learned for years in school, I have forgotten almost in its entirety.

    It depends on your goals and learning style. For instance, if you just want to be able to read Japanese and maybe listen to dialogue in Japanese shows, you're probably going to want different resources than if you were trying to live in Japan and communicate back and forth. That may also change with your target cost for learning: you can learn a whole lot with free resources, but you also have the choice of hiring a tutor or paying for other classes.
    My personal goal is to live in Japan and communicate effectively, to include speaking, listening, and reading. Writing is sort of tangential to reading for me since I'm not ever going to need to do a lot of writing in Japanese, but it does help solidify kanji in my mind. So I took a 6-month Japanese basics course through my office, then I found out our teacher also works with another language school near my apartment so I decided to continue individual classes with her. We meet twice a week and we're going through the Genki textbooks. This helps my reading and writing, and she and I practice speaking together. On top of that, I use WaniKani (when I remember to), and sometimes Anki for really targeted subjects.
    I have started and then stopped using: Rosetta Stone (The Rosetta Stone method does not work very well for Japanese, in my and some of my colleagues' opinions), LingoDeer (Not bad, but I have a habit of getting bored before I get to the useful sections of the step-by-step apps), and Duolingo (Same as LingoDeer)
    If you have any specific questions I may be able to help, but step one I think is to think about what you want to do with Japanese and then honestly assess your learning skill and that will help focus how to get there.

    While eventually I might want to go to Japan on vacation or something and not be totally out of my depth, that'd be a bit of a far off goal and not something that's really my focus. Honestly at this stage being able to read it and understand Japanese dialogue in T.V. shows and music and the like is more my immediate focus, my feeling is sort of that if I ever want to be able to converse in the language and communicate in it at some later point, having at least some solid earlier basis to work from wouldn't hurt but it's not where I'm at, goals wise right now. As for my learning skill, it's hard to say. I mean I took French for years, and the only thing I remember how to say in French is "I can't speak French". I wouldn't say I have a knack for languages, but I'm not sure how to assess my skill in general outside of that.

    Maybe you'd have luck using the same resources I did: Genki for general Japanese reading, writing, and grammar; WaniKani to broaden your Kanji; Drops for miscellaneous vocabulary.
    Once you've gotten the basics down, you can start checking out apps like Satori Reader and Easy Japanese News to practice reading, start looking into manga that includes Furigana (the pronunciation notes for kanji), and just do a lot of practice.

    Lord_Asmodeus
  • sarukunsarukun Mr. Bulldopps Get SchwiftyRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    ..... I'd be up for learning whatever magic makes Kanji/Chinese characters easy to remember. That's never been easy for me.

    The first couple hundred is mostly stroke order, but we're talking 5-8 strokes for most of those, tops. You can learn those in a couple of months fairly easily.

    After that, most kanji are just pieces of kanji you already know standing next to/on top of one another. That doesn't help much with remembering sound and meaning once you start getting into more abstract concepts, although a lot of more modern kanji have portions that are basically "sounds like" clues, which does help a little bit.

    Brainleech
  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    sarukun wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    ..... I'd be up for learning whatever magic makes Kanji/Chinese characters easy to remember. That's never been easy for me.

    The first couple hundred is mostly stroke order, but we're talking 5-8 strokes for most of those, tops. You can learn those in a couple of months fairly easily.

    After that, most kanji are just pieces of kanji you already know standing next to/on top of one another. That doesn't help much with remembering sound and meaning once you start getting into more abstract concepts, although a lot of more modern kanji have portions that are basically "sounds like" clues, which does help a little bit.

    Ahh, that's what you meant :). Yeah, I agree, but "sound and meaning" were what I was hoping you had magic for haha

    PA HotS Group
    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • GeddoeGeddoe Registered User regular
    I have definitely been slacking in my Japanese study. I get to practice a bit at work, but I didn't even bother to sign up for the JLPT in December because I know I would just waste my 5000+ yen.

  • sarukunsarukun Mr. Bulldopps Get SchwiftyRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    sarukun wrote: »
    kime wrote: »
    ..... I'd be up for learning whatever magic makes Kanji/Chinese characters easy to remember. That's never been easy for me.

    The first couple hundred is mostly stroke order, but we're talking 5-8 strokes for most of those, tops. You can learn those in a couple of months fairly easily.

    After that, most kanji are just pieces of kanji you already know standing next to/on top of one another. That doesn't help much with remembering sound and meaning once you start getting into more abstract concepts, although a lot of more modern kanji have portions that are basically "sounds like" clues, which does help a little bit.

    Ahh, that's what you meant :). Yeah, I agree, but "sound and meaning" were what I was hoping you had magic for haha

    Sadly, no, that is a feature of the writing system.

    kime
  • godmodegodmode Nooo-ooo-ooo... That ain't dancin', SallyRegistered User regular
    Things have been getting progressively better! I had dinner with my girlfriend's mom a couple weeks ago and, while I wasn't able to follow the whole conversation, I'm starting to reach the point where I can regularly gauge the gist of the conversation. She remarked how much I've improved since we last saw each other in July as well, so I feel a bit better about it.
    However, I've been giving a lot of thought to returning to school to finally finish my Bachelor's. It'll require me dedicating 15 more months to school, and I won't be able to continue my Japanese classes while I do it - it's just too much work in a given week. So I'm hoping to get to at least a passable point before I take a break from the language school, probably in either May or August, haven't decided yet.

    sarukunGvzbguljoshofalltrades
  • sarukunsarukun Mr. Bulldopps Get SchwiftyRegistered User regular
    Taking a break IN Japan won’t be a disaster, you’ll backslide on vocabulary and expressions that you don’t make regular use of, but your fluency shouldn’t suffer at all provided you practice regularly.

  • godmodegodmode Nooo-ooo-ooo... That ain't dancin', SallyRegistered User regular
    Another interesting-looking resources for folks who like to learn from TV. Haven't tried it myself yet since I don't learn very well this way, but might be worth a look for folks!
    https://soranews24.com/2020/01/12/free-language-learning-with-netflix-extension-makes-studying-japanese-almost-too-easy/

    sarukunDisruptedCapitalistTaminPeas
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    edited January 13
    I got myself a pair of bluetooth earmuffs to listen to podcasts at work. Which has been great all round. Work goes by quicker and I'm learning. The podcast I'm listening to isnt primarilly language focussed. Its quite general and covers many different aspects of the Māori world view. Intersting stuff. Most useful to me have been the kīwaha. Colloquial sayings and phrases (sometimes even just noises). The podcast hosts are pushing those hard because they're an aspect of language often missed in lessons that can throw a learner, yet theyre also easy to learn and use in any context.

    During our summer holiday last week i knuckled down and did more exercises. Its starting to get to the point where i dont need to cross reference every single word and can just look at a simple sentence and understand the gist. I'm getting better at translations too. Often any errors i make just come down to word choice but the grammar and meaning is still there. Before i could happily translate a sentence only to find out i was way off. Either I'd mixed up my sentence structures or my words. But, im getting better and can see progress.

    Gvzbgul on
    sarukun
  • AtaxrxesAtaxrxes Cursed EarthRegistered User regular
    I started learning Norwegian with the Duolingo app. It's working and I really like it but I am starting to see the limitations so I'm going to order myself some workbooks etc. Eventually I'll probably need to find a tutor.

  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Eyy. Duolingo is adding Māori sometime this year. Neat! It'll be interesting trying duolingo with a language I know more than nothing about. Sadly i dropped my other duolingo attempts after a short period. Hopefully it is a bit different this time.

    Dark Raven Xsarukun
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    What is the best way to work on audio recognition with Japanese? I have a ton of problems properly hearing words in a sentence even when I know how they are pronounced and everything.

  • godmodegodmode Nooo-ooo-ooo... That ain't dancin', SallyRegistered User regular
    For me, it was putting in the time to learn a bunch of words and grammar to recognize where one word stops and the next starts.
    Japanese language podcasts and TV shows may help you get that time in.

    sarukun
  • sarukunsarukun Mr. Bulldopps Get SchwiftyRegistered User regular
    It may be of some use to have a visual component to give context at first, so watching YouTube videos or kids shows from NHK (Japanese PBS) night help. They also speak a lot slower in kids shows and you get to enjoy rad shit like ピタゴラスイッチ as a bonus.

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