Club PA 2.0 has arrived! If you'd like to access some extra PA content and help support the forums, check it out at patreon.com/ClubPA
The image size limit has been raised to 1mb! Anything larger than that should be linked to. This is a HARD limit, please do not abuse it.
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

US Government Shutdown 2018/2019 - read mod post on pg 23

13468994

Posts

  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    .
    Viskod wrote: »
    RickRude wrote: »
    McConnell went home so the earliest possible this can end now is sometime Monday aftetnoon, or more likely Tuesday. I don't see why it'd end then, but it's sad to think it's guaranteed another 4 days basically

    This shutdown is going through the state of the union at least and the White House is planning on it lasting all of next month.

    If that's the case (and I don't doubt it), then that needs to be the story. That the White House aren't willing to consider it. That they're not just prepared to, but are actively intending to, inflict pain to force their position. That it's not a day to day proposition, they're fully intending to be assholes for at least another six weeks, and negotiations aren't even on the cards.

    All because baby wants his binky, and will tear everything down.

    And Republican Senators need to be "informed" (we know they know, we need to make it clear they know we know they know), so that they're unable to hide behind ignorance on the matter. That if they don't do something themselves, then they're responsible. That they're absolutely complicit.

    ElvenshaeMegaMekArbitraryDescriptorForarToxCantideCommander ZoomZonugalOrcaPLAMatevjdarksunKristmas KthulhubrynhrtmnGennenalyse RuebenMartini_PhilosopherRickRudeJazzMan in the MistsElldrenKlytusemp123
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    I know it's considered tacky to insult the president as part of the response, but Pelosi really needs to point out that trump is a spoiled child who has no idea what the shutdown actually means for americans and how it's crippling the nation all for the sake of a structure which every expert will admit doesn't work if the guy on the other side has access to home hardware.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    zepherinCelestialBadger
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    The goddamned complicit media could do some human interest features on affected families

    Both federal workers and people hurt by the shutdown

    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
    BlackDragon480FencingsaxFawstLovelyjdarksunKristmas KthulhuElvenshaeStabbity StyleMr RayA Kobold's KoboldIncenjucarJazzMan in the MistsOrphaneemp123
  • zepherinzepherin Registered User regular
    When I filed for unemployment one of the questions asked was am I a federal worker who has been furloughed. Because Maryland isn’t going to pay for that.

    Ouch.

    QuidGnome-Interruptus
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    This is possibly the saddest defense against people saying the white house is in chaos.




    'Elections have consequences" does not apply to congressional elections for some reason.

    monikerSleepDuke 2.0CantideLord_Asmodeusdurandal4532ZonugalFencingsaxArmorocOghulkCantidoMidniteMazzyxspool32Mild ConfusionHiroconMatevFawstCentipede DamascusLovelyjdarksunBurnageElvenshaeStabbity StyleGennenalyse RuebentynicDarkPrimusNiryaRickRudeHeatwaveA Kobold's KoboldShadowfireBrodyHefflingKoopahTroopahJazznever dieMan in the MistsElldrenJaysonFourmjn6172Nobeardemp123
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Just stop after the first tweet.

    The White House isn't chaotic because everybody but him has fled.

    rndmheroSleepDuke 2.0Captain InertiaToxTofystedethjungleroomxEncCantideMegaMekScooterEmerlmaster999Lord_Asmodeusdurandal4532TNTrooperCommander ZoommonikerZonugalFencingsaxjmcdonaldArmorocCantidoMidniteMazzyxRozkimeButtersMild ConfusionMatevCogCentipede DamascusYoutubeMr FuzzbuttjdarksunKristmas KthulhuElvenshaebrynhrtmnStabbity StyleGennenalyse RuebenMartini_PhilosophertynicNiryaCommunistCowRickRudeHeatwaveA Kobold's KoboldHacksawShadowfireBrodyHefflingAegeriJoolanderSkeithJazznever dieMan in the MistsTicaldfjamElldrenJaysonFourLostNinjaGnome-InterruptusNobeardemp123
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    SleepXaquinAbsoluteZeroDouglasDangerCantideRedTideNo-QuarterEmerlmaster999BloodySlothLord_AsmodeusmonikerFencingsaxCelestialBadgerMidniteHiroconMatevCogYoutubeLovelyjdarksunKristmas KthulhuElvenshaeStabbity StyleGennenalyse RuebenMartini_PhilosopherNiryaCommunistCowbrynhrtmnLegacyRickRudeHeatwaveA Kobold's KoboldredxHacksawShadowfireIncenjucarBullheadJazznever dieMan in the Mistsemp123
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Sleep on
    monikerNobeard
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Speaking as a canadian citizen, Parliamentry democracy has a lot going for it; you can't have some jack ass come out of nowhere to steal the party out from under you, it has better support for 3rd parties, you don't have to worry about shutdowns because of petulance and the prime minister has to directly address the opposition on a regular basis and hear their response.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    ShadowhopeCaptainPeacockmonikershrykePLAForarjdarksunnever dieMan in the MistsCptKemzikJaysonFourGnome-Interruptusemp123
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    The goddamned complicit media could do some human interest features on affected families

    Both federal workers and people hurt by the shutdown

    I've read a few stories, but they always seem to end with the worker saying "I don't care about Republicans or Democrats, I just want the politicians to stop playing games and compromise."

    I don't know if that's actually representative of most furloughed workers, or if it's just the media's need to Both Sides everything.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
    AimmonikerFencingsaxMidniteMatevMoridin889CogLovelyjdarksunKristmas KthulhuStabbity StyleGennenalyse RuebenSpoitRickRudeShadowfireJoolanderJazzKruiteMan in the MistsJaysonFourGnome-InterruptusNobeardemp123
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    Could be curation by the media, but I think we’ve been conditioned to say shit like that when face to face (online is waaayyyy different obvi).

    That phenomenon is why one side gets to literally hold the country hostage without being called the literal hostage takers they are

    RingoSleepmcdermottLord_Asmodeusdurandal4532monikershrykeFencingsaxCelestialBadgerMatevMoridin889YoutubeLovelyjdarksunKristmas KthulhuStabbity StyleGennenalyse RuebenNiryaRickRudeKamarA Kobold's KoboldShadowfireJazzMan in the MistsJaysonFourGnome-Interruptusemp123
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    There is also the fact they'd probably really like to make rent and eat food. This is the classic overall good versus individual good question. It is real hard to be the individual whose good is being sacrificed and still be chipper about the overall good.

    SleepElJeffemonikerFencingsaxspool32MatevMoridin889jdarksunKristmas KthulhuElvenshaeTofystedethStabbity StyleRawkking GoodguyGennenalyse RuebenMr RayRickRudeJazzJaysonFourGnome-Interruptusemp123
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    There is also the fact they'd probably really like to make rent and eat food. This is the classic overall good versus individual good question. It is real hard to be the individual whose good is being sacrificed and still be chipper about the overall good.

    The Dems passed the bill that passed 100-0 already in the last senate

    The Dems ain’t sacrificing anybody’s individual good because the Rs won’t release the hostage because they want it dead anyway

    Captain Inertia on
    durandal4532FencingsaxCelestialBadgerHiroconMatevYoutubejdarksunKristmas KthulhuElvenshaeGennenalyse RuebendavidsdurionsMartini_PhilosopherRickRudeA Kobold's KoboldJazzMan in the MistsElldrenJaysonFouremp123
  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    The Dems aren’t playing games here blood is shooting out of my face oh my god

    monikerFencingsaxLovelyKristmas KthulhuMahnmutJazzMan in the MistsNobeardemp123
  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    zepherin wrote: »
    When I filed for unemployment one of the questions asked was am I a federal worker who has been furloughed. Because Maryland isn’t going to pay for that.

    Ouch.

    :bro:

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
    Captain InertiaJohnny ChopsockyjungleroomxCantideSleepNo-QuarterBlackDragon480Emerlmaster999Lord_AsmodeusRiusdurandal4532HonkCommander ZoomDuke 2.0shrykeZonugalFencingsaxTynnanNogginArmorocOghulkMidniteBarrakkethkimeForarMatevToxCogjdarksunBurnageKristmas KthulhuElvenshaeTofystedethStabbity StyleMvrckGennenalyse RuebenMartini_PhilosopherDarkPrimusNiryaCommunistCowLegacyRickRudewebguy20HeatwaveA Kobold's KoboldHacksawShadowfireHefflingAegeriJoolanderKoopahTroopahIncenjucarSkeithJazzMan in the MistsTicaldfjamEvil MultifariousDevlin_DragonusElldrenabotkinJaysonFourLostNinjamjn6172FryNobeardemp123
  • CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Speaking as a canadian citizen, Parliamentry democracy has a lot going for it; you can't have some jack ass come out of nowhere to steal the party out from under you, it has better support for 3rd parties, you don't have to worry about shutdowns because of petulance and the prime minister has to directly address the opposition on a regular basis and hear their response.

    Are there any examples of a state peacefully transitioning to a new system of government?

    Jedoc wrote: »
    The GOP cares about babies until they're born, soldiers until they're in need of care, and families until they interfere with stockholder dividends.
  • Dark_SideDark_Side Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    The goddamned complicit media could do some human interest features on affected families

    Both federal workers and people hurt by the shutdown

    Or they could run some astroturfing cover for Mitch McConnell. Link

    Summary: He apparently did the same thing as Graham, with the same results. Also the article somehow fails to bring up that Mitch already passed a funding bill before xmas and the House is sending him the same fucking bill back.

    Edit: Link fixed. Thanks!

    Dark_Side on
    Youtube
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Your link is broken.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
    WhiteZinfandel
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Speaking as a canadian citizen, Parliamentry democracy has a lot going for it; you can't have some jack ass come out of nowhere to steal the party out from under you, it has better support for 3rd parties, you don't have to worry about shutdowns because of petulance and the prime minister has to directly address the opposition on a regular basis and hear their response.

    Are there any examples of a state peacefully transitioning to a new system of government?

    The US did when we switched from the Articles to the Constitution.

    monikerCantidoMazzyxspool32MatevElvenshaeStabbity StyleMvrckCentipede DamascusGennenalyse RuebenMartini_PhilosopherMegaMekA Kobold's KoboldBrodyJoolanderTicaldfjamElldren38thDoeemp123
  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    The goddamned complicit media could do some human interest features on affected families

    Both federal workers and people hurt by the shutdown

    I've read a few stories, but they always seem to end with the worker saying "I don't care about Republicans or Democrats, I just want the politicians to stop playing games and compromise."

    I don't know if that's actually representative of most furloughed workers, or if it's just the media's need to Both Sides everything.

    No that's the response of most of the populace who are tired after 2 decades of a totally useless government that's fighting a game most proles don't care about.

    The fact is that most people consider the government a nuisance they will never be rid of. They don't really care what it does so long as it doesn't fuck them up directly and as little as possible indirectly.

    Kaputa
  • TastyfishTastyfish Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    For him, isn't this pretty much a holiday? Surprised he's not just flown down to Mar-a-Largo and said he's going to be playing golf until the Dems agree to the wall.

    Emerlmaster999RickRudeOrphane
  • wazillawazilla Registered User regular
    "how can there be chaos in the White House if there's nobody in the White House?" Is a terrifyingly dumb take. I hope to God nothing happens that requires US intervention during this shutdown.

    Psn:wazukki
    HenroidSleepmonikerDuke 2.0TetraNitroCubaneFencingsaxCommander ZoomCelestialBadgerArmorocDouglasDangerMild ConfusionMatevCantideCogLovelyBurnageKristmas KthulhuElvenshaeTofystedethStabbity StyleJohnny ChopsockyCentipede DamascusGennenalyse RuebenMartini_PhilosopherNiryaNo-QuarterMr RaybrynhrtmnRickRudeHeatwaveA Kobold's KoboldShadowfireHefflingJoolanderAegeriFlying CouchJazzMan in the MistsElldrenabotkinJaysonFourGnome-InterruptusNobeardemp123
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Speaking as a canadian citizen, Parliamentry democracy has a lot going for it; you can't have some jack ass come out of nowhere to steal the party out from under you, it has better support for 3rd parties, you don't have to worry about shutdowns because of petulance and the prime minister has to directly address the opposition on a regular basis and hear their response.

    and absolute worst case you can call a snap election

    Gaddez
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    This is a good speech and should have been the Schumer Pelosi rebuttal:



    Sen. Tester (D-MT), speaking on the Senate floor Wednesday.
    [Edit: think I have the day wrong, still good!]


    - Admin has not provided any cost justification.
    - Reopen, then debate.
    - McConnell is a bad leader and is undermining the very premise of co-equal government.

    ArbitraryDescriptor on
    monikerLord_AsmodeusshrykeBlackDragon480ZonugalTetraNitroCubaneGaddezFencingsaxTNTrooperArmorocSmrtnikSpaffyMidnitejoshofalltradesPLAMatevToxCantideYoutubeEmerlmaster999jdarksunKristmas KthulhuElvenshaeTofystedethStabbity StyleMvrckCentipede DamascusdavidsdurionsGennenalyse RuebenjungleroomxMartini_PhilosopherNiryaAbsoluteZeroMrMisterbrynhrtmnelectricitylikesmeRickRudeA Kobold's KoboldHacksawShadowfireBrodyFlying CouchJazzKruiteMan in the MistsOrphaneTicaldfjamElldrenLeeksabotkinJaysonFourmjn6172ShadowhopeYuzakNobeardemp123
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Speaking as a canadian citizen, Parliamentry democracy has a lot going for it; you can't have some jack ass come out of nowhere to steal the party out from under you, it has better support for 3rd parties, you don't have to worry about shutdowns because of petulance and the prime minister has to directly address the opposition on a regular basis and hear their response.

    Are there any examples of a state peacefully transitioning to a new system of government?

    Canada.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
    moniker
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Senator Tester's speech uses facts and figures, therefore it is an automatic pass for the people it most needs to reach and/or sway.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    mcdermottOrcaSmrtnikFawstYoutubedispatch.omonikerTofystedethAbsoluteZeroNo-QuarterRickRudeMegaMekShadowfireBrodyHefflingSkeithJazzKruiteMan in the MistsJaysonFourGnome-InterruptusNobeardemp123
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    There is also the fact they'd probably really like to make rent and eat food. This is the classic overall good versus individual good question. It is real hard to be the individual whose good is being sacrificed and still be chipper about the overall good.

    The Dems passed the bill that passed 100-0 already in the last senate

    The Dems ain’t sacrificing anybody’s individual good because the Rs won’t release the hostage because they want it dead anyway

    Yeah, I know that but then again I'm not gonna have any problems paying my mortgage this month because I don't work for the government. Still, my point was that I am sympathetic to how they feel.

    Do you really not understand that when you're facing financial ruin that you probably don't give a shit about who is actually right? You just want anybody to give in so you actually get paid for your work.

    SleepElvenshae
  • MorganVMorganV Registered User regular
    Senator Tester's speech uses facts and figures has a (D) after his name, therefore it is an automatic pass for the people it most needs to reach and/or sway.

    There, fixed that for you.

    kimeMatevCantidemonikerSleepCommander ZoomGennenalyse RuebenAbsoluteZeroNo-QuarterSpoitelectricitylikesmePolaritieKristmas KthulhuJoolanderBullheadSkeithJazzMan in the MistsTicaldfjamMidniteJaysonFourShadowhopeNobeardemp123
  • Magus`Magus` Registered User regular
    I'm legit worried about actual violence at this point, no less because I feel it's going to be aimed more at Democrats given the two (three?) bases make up, Trump's especially.

    Not trying to be doomsaying but these after people who have a massive persecution complex in the best of times. If attacks happen, I hope that they are dealt with safely and that finally it would be enough pressure for the Republicans to stop pulling this shit.

    Youtube
  • DacDac Registered User regular
    D's should stage a sit-in on the Senate floor and refuse to vacate until McConnell brings the bill to a vote.

    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
    mrpakuCelestialBadgerVeagleDuke 2.0BlackDragon480TraceZonugalLord_AsmodeusDouglasDangerHiroconjoshofalltradesMatevCantideYoutubeEmerlmaster999LovelyMoridin889jdarksunmonikerSleepElvenshaeArmorocTofystedethStabbity StyleMvrckGennenalyse RuebenMartini_PhilosopherNiryaNo-QuarterCommunistCowbrynhrtmnwebguy20electricitylikesmeRickRudeA Kobold's KoboldAegeriSkeithJazzElldrenMidniteabotkinJaysonFourGnome-Interruptusemp123
  • spool32spool32 Contrary Library Registered User regular
    McConnell really is the problem here, again.

    If he lets a vote happen, Trump has to act one way or the other, and collapse the waveform of blame. McConnell is the key here, once he's moved the rest can shake itself out like government is supposed to function.


    Your Senator is the proper place to put pressure right now, if you're wondering how to do something.

    DacTetraNitroCubanekimeOrcaDuke 2.0Lord_AsmodeusDouglasDangerHiroconArbitraryDescriptorHenroidKetBraMatevFawstCantideCogEmerlmaster999RozRhesus PositiveMoridin889BurnagemonikerSleepElvenshaeArmorocStabbity StylejdarksunMvrckCentipede DamascusGennenalyse RuebenMartini_PhilosopherNiryaNo-QuarterFencingsaxbrynhrtmnwebguy20electricitylikesmeRickRudeKamarA Kobold's KoboldsanstodoShadowfireHefflingIncenjucarSkeithJazznever dieElldrenMidniteabotkinJaysonFourGnome-InterruptusShadowhopeemp123
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/11/us/politics/trump-shutdown-confusion.html
    WASHINGTON — Officially, Republicans blame Democrats for what is now the longest government shutdown in the nation’s history. Privately, many concede, the stalemate over President Trump’s demand for a border wall has been made exponentially worse by White House ineptitude on Capitol Hill, where two years of contradictory statements and actions have built up a profound lack of trust.

    Republican lawmakers and aides worry that Mr. Trump has misunderstood Democrats’ incentives to stand firm and that he has deputized the wrong aides to press his case. And they question who — if anyone other than the president — has the authority to resolve the impasse. They describe a dysfunctional dynamic where even senior leaders in Mr. Trump’s own party never know quite what to expect from the president.
    It happened again on Thursday. A group of Republican senators were trying to forge a deal to pair wall funding with legal status for undocumented immigrants brought to the United States as children, often known as Dreamers. Then Mr. Pence told them that their effort would not earn Mr. Trump’s support, effectively torpedoing the talks. Members of the group said they recognized that their proposal would rise and fall according to the whims of the president.

    “The president is the chief executive who is going to be a part of solving this problem,” said Senator Thom Tillis, Republican of North Carolina, “so I must trust him.”

    But hours later, the president contradicted Mr. Pence, saying in McAllen, Tex., that he would be open to a “broader” immigration deal that would “simultaneously” deal with the Dreamers and a wall — if senators would bring him one they could agree on.

    Again, Republicans were left baffled by a president who has pitched himself as an expert in the art of the deal.
    Mr. Kushner has little relationship with Mr. Manchin, but he left the senator with the impression that the White House believed public opinion would be on the president’s side after the speech, and that Democrats would simply have to relent. That did not go over well.
    The whole situation is a bunch of amateurs with no idea what they want or how to accomplish it and a bunch of people who aren't amateurs refusing to force the amateurs to be less foolish.

    CelestialBadgerArbitraryDescriptorFawstCantideEmerlmaster999YoutubemonikerElvenshaeCommander ZoomjdarksunCentipede DamascusMazzyxGennenalyse RuebentynicAegisTNTrooperFencingsaxLegacyelectricitylikesmeRickRudeHeatwaveA Kobold's KoboldKristmas KthulhuMillAegeriLabelSkeithMan in the MistsElldrenMidniteabotkinJaysonFourGnome-InterruptusShadowhopeNobeardemp123
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    It sounds to me like Pence was lying about Trump being unwilling to discuss Dreamers, because he himself hates the thought of a deal being done to help them. Of course, Trump can't be trusted to stick to any agreement, so perhaps he was being realistic.

    OrcamcdermottLovelymonikerElvenshaeGennenalyse RuebenFencingsaxLegacyRickRudeMan in the MistsShadowhope
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    I don’t understand how anyone thought that public opinion would swing towards Trump after his speech. Especially since he just repeated the same things he had already been saying when public support had been turning against him.

    PreacherRedTideQanamilElvenshaeCentipede DamascusStabbity StyleGennenalyse RuebenTNTrooperFencingsaxLegacyelectricitylikesmeRickRudeA Kobold's KoboldAegeriMan in the MistsElldrenMidniteabotkinemp123
  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    It sounds to me like Pence was lying about Trump being unwilling to discuss Dreamers, because he himself hates the thought of a deal being done to help them. Of course, Trump can't be trusted to stick to any agreement, so perhaps he was being realistic.
    Part of me wonders if Pence is trying to push his own agenda and hope Trump either doesn't notice or is so disinterested in government that he doesn't care.

    Nobody likes me but that's okay. I'm used to it.
    CelestialBadgerYoutubemonikerCommander ZoomGennenalyse RuebenFencingsaxRickRudebrynhrtmnJazzMan in the Mists
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Calica wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Sleep wrote: »
    Gaddez wrote: »
    Trump's plan is to wait until the democrats cave. That's it. That's all there is to this. If anyone thinks that there is anymore depth or nuance to it they are wrong.

    Like I said when this was all starting it's either the democrats cave or the country does, cause the other parties in the negotiating are definitely willing to cave the country. Seems we've decided either way there is the end of the country so... i'm really not sure where we go from that but to a new government and state.

    Speaking as a canadian citizen, Parliamentry democracy has a lot going for it; you can't have some jack ass come out of nowhere to steal the party out from under you, it has better support for 3rd parties, you don't have to worry about shutdowns because of petulance and the prime minister has to directly address the opposition on a regular basis and hear their response.

    Are there any examples of a state peacefully transitioning to a new system of government?

    Depends on what you mean by peaceful..

    Lots of dictatorships have transitioned to more Democratic governments peacefully... post Franco spain, Burma(though the new government is still pretty brutal), South Korea, and many of the various post communist Eastern European governments come to mind. Also going the other way, for example Erdogan and Putin are effectively dictators from previously quasi-democratic states without a revolution (though with Erdogan a violent coup was attempeted against him after the fact).

    Jealous Deva on
    YoutubemonikerelectricitylikesmePLA
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    I don’t understand how anyone thought that public opinion would swing towards Trump after his speech. Especially since he just repeated the same things he had already been saying when public support had been turning against him.

    Because they only watch Fox.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
    shrykeCogYoutubeGennenalyse RuebenAegisTNTrooperRickRudeiTunesIsEvilA Kobold's KoboldKristmas KthulhuLabelJazzMan in the MistsMidniteNobeardemp123
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    I don’t understand how anyone thought that public opinion would swing towards Trump after his speech. Especially since he just repeated the same things he had already been saying when public support had been turning against him.

    His only source of news, or at least the only one he trusts, is Fox News, where it's just an echo chamber of praise

    Somewhere around 30%, I think, of the USA is all aboard the Trump train, and that's who Fox News targets

    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
    mcdermottCantideCogYoutubeGennenalyse RuebenRickRudeA Kobold's KoboldKristmas KthulhuJazzMan in the MistsMidnite
  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    Dac wrote: »
    D's should stage a sit-in on the Senate floor and refuse to vacate until McConnell brings the bill to a vote.

    They only need 51 to form a quorum...

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
    monikerElvenshaeBrodySkeith
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited January 12
    Marathon wrote: »
    I don’t understand how anyone thought that public opinion would swing towards Trump after his speech. Especially since he just repeated the same things he had already been saying when public support had been turning against him.

    Because they only watch Fox.

    Literally the entire Republican party infrastructure, from the President and Senators down to their staff, basically mainlines Fox News and little else. That's where they get their information from. Even most of their elected officials these days are just more inmates from the asylum.

    shryke on
    YoutubeLovelySleepGennenalyse RuebenFencingsaxKristmas KthulhuLabelJazzMan in the MistsTicaldfjamElldrenMidniteemp123
This discussion has been closed.