US Government Shutdown 2018/2019 - read mod post on pg 23

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    https://splinternews.com/its-happening-1832051400

    https://twitter.com/afa_cw a/status/1088833949093236738

    Flight Attendant president says this is intentional.

    Also 140k IRS workers also didn't turn up for work. Apparently the stunt yesterday plus the let them eat cake from the administration kind of pissed some people off.

    Link, please

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    It's great to actually hear representatives use the let them eat cake line.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Man, this is a real bad day for trump, and it's only 2 in the afternoon. Curious if he doubles down, or finally relents like he did with the SotU.

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
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  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Colorful Extrovert Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    https://splinternews.com/its-happening-1832051400

    https://twitter.com/afa_cw a/status/1088833949093236738

    Flight Attendant president says this is intentional.

    Also 140k IRS workers also didn't turn up for work. Apparently the stunt yesterday plus the let them eat cake from the administration kind of pissed some people off.

    Link, please

    It's 14k, not 140k



    DouglasDanger
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    As an aside, man.. think how much money the US Gov't would have if it actually had 140,000 IRS agents going after everyone trying to do shady stuff.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    woops sorry guys my bad, still 14k workers sounds like a lot.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    woops sorry guys my bad, still 14k workers sounds like a lot.

    Under Trump, the IRS has fallen in total by about 20k to around 75k total people working for them. That's about an 18% loss in personnel.

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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    As an aside, man.. think how much money the US Gov't would have if it actually had 140,000 IRS agents going after everyone trying to do shady stuff.

    I'm starting to think of the IRS as the heroes. Everyone is supposed to hate the taxman, but if we don't have them, the rich weasel out of paying their fair share. And when my husband and I screwed up our small business taxes they were SUPER nice in helping us fix it. We should hire more taxmen!

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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Man, this is a real bad day for trump, and it's only 2 in the afternoon. Curious if he doubles down, or finally relents like he did with the SotU.

    If his approval rating was taking a hit for the shutdown before this, it is going to absolutely crater if air travel is fucked now going forward.

    Marathon on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    Politico reporter:

    I assume he is caving, but he could double down.

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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    It's great to actually hear representatives use the let them eat cake line.

    It was exactly what went through my mind when whatsherface Trump said what she said. The Ross chimed in and it just keeps rolling. They are completely tone deaf on this.

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Politico reporter:

    I assume he is caving, but he could double down.

    My bet is either wall emergency, LOOK AT WHAT THE LIBRULS ARE DOING TO YOU ALL, or both

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  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Politico reporter:

    I assume he is caving, but he could double down.

    We've been through several double-downs at this point. Every move has been to double-down on his side. I don't know that there's any play left in that move.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
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  • Santa ClaustrophobiaSanta Claustrophobia Ho Ho Ho Disconnecting from Xbox LIVERegistered User regular
    Never has one little pause carried so much contempt:



    Adam Parkhomenko is a Democratic strategist.

    As a recipient of said pause put it:


    That ... pause .... before “statement” is everything you need to know and nothing you want to experience firsthand.

    Christine Pelosi is an advocate and daughter of Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

    That is just...

    I don't know what this means. The audio cuts out. Is there a transcript?

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Politico reporter:

    I assume he is caving, but he could double down.

    We've been through several double-downs at this point. Every move has been to double-down on his side. I don't know that there's any play left in that move.

    I have to wonder if they're looking to distract from the OTHER big news event if the day.

    Sleep
  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Politico reporter:

    I assume he is caving, but he could double down.

    We've been through several double-downs at this point. Every move has been to double-down on his side. I don't know that there's any play left in that move.

    You switch from blackjack to poker and go all in. Declaring a state of emergency on the basis that air travel is vital to the country is a possibility.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Never has one little pause carried so much contempt:



    Adam Parkhomenko is a Democratic strategist.

    As a recipient of said pause put it:


    That ... pause .... before “statement” is everything you need to know and nothing you want to experience firsthand.

    Christine Pelosi is an advocate and daughter of Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

    That is just...

    I don't know what this means. The audio cuts out. Is there a transcript?

    Pelosi mentions Wilbur's statement, but pauses before saying Statement like your mom does when she's super pissed at you for fucking up. Confirmed by Pelosi's own daughter that's exactly what that meant.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Never has one little pause carried so much contempt:



    Adam Parkhomenko is a Democratic strategist.

    As a recipient of said pause put it:


    That ... pause .... before “statement” is everything you need to know and nothing you want to experience firsthand.

    Christine Pelosi is an advocate and daughter of Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

    That is just...

    I don't know what this means. The audio cuts out. Is there a transcript?

    The critical part is
    Hours after Secretary Ross made his... statement...

    Imagine a metric ton of disdain poured into two syllables.

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  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Couscous wrote: »
    Politico reporter:

    I assume he is caving, but he could double down.

    We've been through several double-downs at this point. Every move has been to double-down on his side. I don't know that there's any play left in that move.

    But does he know how to make any other move?

    I'd say he goes the emergency route, but he seems like he's dead set on getting this 5.7 billion to go to wall

    Sleep on
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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Politico reporter:

    I assume he is caving, but he could double down.

    We've been through several double-downs at this point. Every move has been to double-down on his side. I don't know that there's any play left in that move.

    But does he know how to make any other move?

    I'd say he goes the emergency route, but he seems like he's dead set on getting this 5.7 billion to go to wall

    I'd say 60% chance of repeating what he already said/doubling down, 30% chance of emergency and 10% chance of caving

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  • MegaMan001MegaMan001 CRNA Rochester, MNRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Never has one little pause carried so much contempt:



    Adam Parkhomenko is a Democratic strategist.

    As a recipient of said pause put it:


    That ... pause .... before “statement” is everything you need to know and nothing you want to experience firsthand.

    Christine Pelosi is an advocate and daughter of Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

    That is just...

    I don't know what this means. The audio cuts out. Is there a transcript?

    Pelosi mentions Wilbur's statement, but pauses before saying Statement like your mom does when she's super pissed at you for fucking up. Confirmed by Pelosi's own daughter that's exactly what that meant.

    It's the moment before your mother tells you she disappointed in you, but not mad. It's worse, you know?

    My CPA told me today that none of their tax tables / software / whatever the hell that they use for taxes has been updated for 2018 given the impact of the 'Tax Cut and Jobs Act'.

    He is under the impression that nothing is going to be on time this year.

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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    ~Snip~
    Moved this bit about Kushner's paper to the correct thread. Sorry!

    Enc on
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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    As an aside, man.. think how much money the US Gov't would have if it actually had 140,000 IRS agents going after everyone trying to do shady stuff.

    I'm starting to think of the IRS as the heroes. Everyone is supposed to hate the taxman, but if we don't have them, the rich weasel out of paying their fair share. And when my husband and I screwed up our small business taxes they were SUPER nice in helping us fix it. We should hire more taxmen!

    I've been audited twice (once due to a major dickup on my part after I got out of the USAF and paid taxes in the wrong state, and another as a joint filer after we had received a small inheritance and were otherwise living on student loans, which made the numbers, even from an outsider, look pretty fishy), and the IRS was easier to work with than any other government agency I had, or have, ever dealt with.

    It is anecdotal, for certain (both my experiences, and my observations), but I don't know that I've ever had a horror story with the IRS related to me, that didn't begin with some variation of "well, I sometimes don't bother doing my taxes (!)" or "those leeches...". Particularly out here in Utah among people who have government distrust literally built into their religion, I like to ask whether or not the person is referring to their actual taxes, or if they're talking about Social Security and Medicaid deductions. It only takes a minute to sort out that, in general, the amount of taxes they're paying that they aren't getting a refund for, are tiny. And SSA/Med withholdings, if they're angry about, they should either better understand how those systems work and why they're so large and not refundable (that they will, by and large, get at least the former back later in life helps), or direct their frustrations with the idiots they keep reelecting, and how those people keep intentionally mismanaging Social Security to manufacture crisis, and on the latter refuse to make needed changes to reduce the cost of government spending on healthcare vs actual care received. SSA is usually much easier to communicate that it isn't a "tax" so much as it is a forced savings account (incredibly oversimplified, I know); but the latter is something that more people seem to balk at because by and large they don't have government insurance, so it feels more like money taken from them and given to someone else.

    Which is apparently offensive. To the same people who eagerly give 10% of their gross (frequently) income to an obscenely wealthy church who has, by conservative estimates now, ~100 billion in assets. :rotate:

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    The obvious solution is to go out, mention that while your believe in the wall, you can't let the Dems hold 800,000 workers hostage anymore, and capitulate to their demand to end the shutdown. Then continue to blame the Democrats for the lack of a wall and use "elections have consequences" as your party-wide 2020 election slogan, essentially blaming the public for voting in the wrong sorts if people and encourage your base to GOTV.

    I'm noy sure Trump's ego will ever let him figure that one out.

    Undead Scottsman on
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  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Uninformed foreigner here so forgive my ignorance but how long can people be expected to keep showing up to work without getting paid? Do they get back pay when they go back? Can people face disciplinary action for not going to work for no pay? Kinda curious how all this works, apologies if this has been answered already.

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Uninformed foreigner here so forgive my ignorance but how long can people be expected to keep showing up to work without getting paid? Do they get back pay when they go back? Can people face disciplinary action for not going to work for no pay? Kinda curious how all this works, apologies if this has been answered already.

    we are in completely uncharted territory here

    good job gop!

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  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Sleep wrote: »
    Couscous wrote: »
    Politico reporter:

    I assume he is caving, but he could double down.

    We've been through several double-downs at this point. Every move has been to double-down on his side. I don't know that there's any play left in that move.

    But does he know how to make any other move?

    I'd say he goes the emergency route, but he seems like he's dead set on getting this 5.7 billion to go to wall

    I'd say 60% chance of repeating what he already said/doubling down, 30% chance of emergency and 10% chance of caving

    At the risk of crossing the streams, I'd guess it's just to make some noise and try to get the focus on the shutdown and away from other events that are being reported on at the moment.

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  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Never has one little pause carried so much contempt:



    Adam Parkhomenko is a Democratic strategist.

    As a recipient of said pause put it:


    That ... pause .... before “statement” is everything you need to know and nothing you want to experience firsthand.

    Christine Pelosi is an advocate and daughter of Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

    That is just...

    I don't know what this means. The audio cuts out. Is there a transcript?

    The critical part is
    Hours after Secretary Ross made his... statement...

    Imagine a metric ton of disdain poured into two syllables.

    Somehow she managed to both italicize and pronounce the ellipsis there.

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Uninformed foreigner here so forgive my ignorance but how long can people be expected to keep showing up to work without getting paid? Do they get back pay when they go back? Can people face disciplinary action for not going to work for no pay? Kinda curious how all this works, apologies if this has been answered already.

    McDermott has some writeups on it.

    1. Depends on who you ask. Apparently some think anyone can just ask for a loan or for businesses to take a loss and give out free food.
    2. Yes. The federal workers definitely. The contractors, I think most of them are covered now.
    3. Yes. They can be fired.

    Though as I type this, I wonder if this covers only essential personnel, or if everyone will get back pay...

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    The only people assured to get back pay when the government reopens are people who are working for free right now.

    If you're on furlough, you have been paid in every shutdown before this, but this isn't every shutdown before this. Uncharted waters for them. Which, if you told me I was going to randomly lose a month of pay this year I wouldn't feel super great about it, even if I got off for said month. People got bills to pay.

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  • cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Athenor wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Uninformed foreigner here so forgive my ignorance but how long can people be expected to keep showing up to work without getting paid? Do they get back pay when they go back? Can people face disciplinary action for not going to work for no pay? Kinda curious how all this works, apologies if this has been answered already.

    McDermott has some writeups on it.

    1. Depends on who you ask. Apparently some think anyone can just ask for a loan or for businesses to take a loss and give out free food.
    2. Yes. The federal workers definitely. The contractors, I think most of them are covered now.
    3. Yes. They can be fired.

    Though as I type this, I wonder if this covers only essential personnel, or if everyone will get back pay...

    all 800,000 are getting backpay, including overtime and other stuff they would have normally gotten. I don't know how they calculate overtime pay for someone who isn't currently working, but that's the deal.
    Knight_ wrote: »
    The only people assured to get back pay when the government reopens are people who are working for free right now.

    If you're on furlough, you have been paid in every shutdown before this, but this isn't every shutdown before this. Uncharted waters for them. Which, if you told me I was going to randomly lose a month of pay this year I wouldn't feel super great about it, even if I got off for said month. People got bills to pay.

    The deal that the white house put together on Wednesday includes all 800,000 workers, essential and non-essential.

    This is not good enough for those people because obviously there are overarching repercussions of this shutdown and they need the money when it's due, not later. But as far as I know, the people who are turbo-fucked are the contractors who are possibly not getting anything at all

    cursedking on
  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    The only people assured to get back pay when the government reopens are people who are working for free right now.

    If you're on furlough, you have been paid in every shutdown before this, but this isn't every shutdown before this. Uncharted waters for them. Which, if you told me I was going to randomly lose a month of pay this year I wouldn't feel super great about it, even if I got off for said month. People got bills to pay.

    My understanding is that there's already a thing signed into law to backpay furloughed employees, no clue how things look for contractors.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    I believe contractors who aren't working are shit out of luck. I recall reading an article on the people who do janitorial stuff are contracted for that and will not be paid.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    If I had to put a time limit on it, I think sometime mid february is the breaking point for working without pay for a lot of people as they churn through whatever savings they have.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    I believe contractors who aren't working are shit out of luck. I recall reading an article on the people who do janitorial stuff are contracted for that and will not be paid.

    yup, it fucking sucks, and the number of people not getting paid is way higher than 800,000. But no one will say that number out loud.

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pregnant-federal-contractor-bills-piling-not-sure-well-pay-142310559.html
    The overall federal contract workforce is estimated to be at about 4 million, which is about double the number of federal civilian employment. And unlike federal employees, contractors don’t receive back pay since the companies they work for aren’t getting paid during a shutdown.

    The number of contracted workers affected by the shutdown isn't 4 million, that's for the whole government, but it's not an insignificant number.

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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

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  • cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    the people at the local grocery store will Work Along with them

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