US Government Shutdown 2018/2019 - read mod post on pg 23

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    Excepted workers on the job today have always been guaranteed full back pay including overtime.

    Furloughed workers not working are now guaranteed back pay, because congress has specifically authorized it and the President signed it.

    For whether excepted employees had to show up, yes and no. All are free to quit, except the one military branch caught up in it. And most agencies have pretty liberal sick call policies (this will vary), so they have some limited ability to take days (but, absent congressional intervention, no *paid* sick days are authorized). For the most part, if they want to keep their job and be paid eventually, they have to show. But for already stretched agencies like TSA and FAA, a small uptick in sick calls is all it takes to impact service.

    ...

    Contractor employees may be paid by their contractors to retain talent, and most should have been able to take paid leave if they had it. Their employer will eat some portion of the loss, and some portion will be passed to employees in the form of lost hours. This will vary wildly between contractor employers. Basically contractors don’t work for the government, they work for a private company the government pays to do work, so it gets complicated. How the shutdown gets dealt with is between them and their employer, for the most part.

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  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    Well. According to the government, loans or just have Walmart do you a solid and give you free groceries

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    If I had to put a time limit on it, I think sometime mid february is the breaking point for working without pay for a lot of people as they churn through whatever savings they have.

    The fucked up thing is I'd say at least ten percent of people not being paid are already there.

    They're either out of cash or down to a symbolic amount and are moving through their available credit at an alarming late.

    They've canceled subscriptions and services, pulled their kids out of swim lessons and are figuring out which bills they can not pay in the meantime.

    People who are ostensibly middle class still live paycheck to paycheck because of being over mortgaged and over consuming.

    It's honestly probably a higher number and you're right in that a tipping point is likely on the horizon.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    "Let them eat Cake!"

    No, really, that's what the Trump Administration is saying. All these people can just get their local grocery stores to let them have food for free, or take out loans. Or go to their parents.

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  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    Look, I don't think you quite grasp the political stance of the party whose actions have lead us to this point.

    Those in the GOP do not care. They don't. It's astounding to have to say that about another human, but that's who inhabits that political party.

    They do not care.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    The long and skinny of it: they won't.

    The GOP is banking on this to get the dems to fold because the dems actually care about people legitimately starving in the streets. And if the dems fold it sends the message of "just hold the government hostage to get what you want for your own pet projects."

    It's a bad precedent.

    There's a real good chance some people are going to die from this, if they haven't already. But the democrats absolutely cannot cave on this, if we do we have a constitutional crisis on our hands and the United States as we know it is over.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    Well. According to the government, loans or just have Walmart do you a solid and give you free groceries

    Is this even a thing or is it sarcasm? Honestly can't tell, the world is too mad now.

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    Well. According to the government, loans or just have Walmart do you a solid and give you free groceries

    Is this even a thing or is it sarcasm? Honestly can't tell, the world is too mad now.

    it's not a thing

    but the gop either don't know that (unlikely) or they do know it and don't care (dingdingdingding)

  • OrcaOrca Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Casual wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    Well. According to the government, loans or just have Walmart do you a solid and give you free groceries

    Is this even a thing or is it sarcasm? Honestly can't tell, the world is too mad now.

    It's actually a thing people in the administration and congress have said. No, it's not a thing Walmart will ever do for you.

    It's sarcastic, but it is directly referencing statements people have made.

    Yes, these people are out of touch assholes that do not care about the people they are nominally serving and representing.

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  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    The push in the 90s to contract as many federal employees as possible was kind of designed for moments like this (and other crises of various types), because you can much more easily and legally fuck over a contractor than an actual federal employee. It also lets small-government types claim that a smaller government works just as well, ignoring that the federal workforce and it’s shadow have been growing for decades. It’s gotten real easy to pretend the government doesn’t do all the work it actually does. This being a partial shutdown feeds into that even further.

    This shutdown is a nightmare, but the general populace getting a better understanding of what ‘government services’ actually include would be a nice development. Which I do not expect to happen, but the world is weird and people are complicated, so maybe a little airport disarray will penetrate the public consciousness. Hopefully while we’re still in the slow arc of decay and not the sheer drop of collapse that’s getting closer every day.

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    Well. According to the government, loans or just have Walmart do you a solid and give you free groceries

    Is this even a thing or is it sarcasm? Honestly can't tell, the world is too mad now.

    No, it's a very let them eat cake moment.

    Rich people are out of touch with the bourgeois and poor classes.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    Well. According to the government, loans or just have Walmart do you a solid and give you free groceries

    Is this even a thing or is it sarcasm? Honestly can't tell, the world is too mad now.

    It was suggested by Trump that the grocery stores would know Federal workers and just let them have food on credit.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    The long and skinny of it: they won't.

    The GOP is banking on this to get the dems to fold because the dems actually care about people legitimately starving in the streets. And if the dems fold it sends the message of "just hold the government hostage to get what you want for your own pet projects."

    It's a bad precedent.

    There's a real good chance some people are going to die from this, if they haven't already. But the democrats absolutely cannot cave on this, if we do we have a constitutional crisis on our hands and the United States as we know it is over.

    Interview with one of the higher ups of the federal prison guard union said they already had at least one completed suicide of a member due to this shutdown.

    So yes, people have died.

    Many of his members can't afford their insulin.

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  • A Dabble Of TheloniusA Dabble Of Thelonius It has been a doozy of a dayRegistered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    Well. According to the government, loans or just have Walmart do you a solid and give you free groceries

    Is this even a thing or is it sarcasm? Honestly can't tell, the world is too mad now.

    If you're asking if Walmart will...no. haha...no

    I'd you're asking if the government actually thinks you can. Yup.

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  • lazegamerlazegamer Registered User regular
    https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/trump-administration-memo-opens-door-to-mass-sickout-by-atc/

    Suggestion that a memo circulated on Thursday said that sick leave during the shutdown will be paid back and not charged against employees overall bank of leave.

    Surprise.
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  • cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    RedTide wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    If I had to put a time limit on it, I think sometime mid february is the breaking point for working without pay for a lot of people as they churn through whatever savings they have.

    The fucked up thing is I'd say at least ten percent of people not being paid are already there.

    They're either out of cash or down to a symbolic amount and are moving through their available credit at an alarming late.

    They've canceled subscriptions and services, pulled their kids out of swim lessons and are figuring out which bills they can not pay in the meantime.

    People who are ostensibly middle class still live paycheck to paycheck because of being over mortgaged and over consuming.

    It's honestly probably a higher number and you're right in that a tipping point is likely on the horizon.

    50 percent of all americans have less than hundred dollars saved. half of that number has zero. 15 percent has more than 10,000.

    The date of half of these people statistically being at the breaking point was the first paycheck.

    And that's taking the workers as a sample of the economy, but they're not. I guarantee the number of federal workers with less than 1,000 in savings is 80%.

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  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Likes Me Registered User regular
    Couscous wrote: »
    Politico reporter:

    I assume he is caving, but he could double down.
    So, assuming it's the "national emergency" thing for the wall to get built anyway (which still won't go exactly how he wants but whatever). What we have to figure out is, since he will be getting his wall that way, will he remember to say "bring me a thing to sign to re-open the government"?

    Because I'm betting no. And by doing this, he's about to expedite how bad this shutdown is. I expect a lot more federal employees and those who work beside them to throw their arms up into the air and go "NOPE FUCK THIS." Which is kinda what's happening this morning based on YESTERDAY'S events.

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    One thing we need to be careful about after this: we do NOT want a change to the Antideficiency Act to specifically allow pay of excepted workers during a shutdown. That sounds callous, but if you want more shutdowns (and longer shutdowns) that’s exactly how you get it.

    If the administration could except the parts of government they “like” and let the rest rot, this could actually go for months longer. It’s only because essential, staffed services reach a breaking point that shutdowns have a relatively short half life. Any changes after this need to eliminate shutdowns entirely as a thing, not make them easier to pull off.

    I mention this because I will be entirely unsurprised if Republicans propose such a measure in the near future. Do not trust it. I hope Democrats are smart enough to see this as well, and won’t propose it themselves.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    Well. According to the government, loans or just have Walmart do you a solid and give you free groceries

    Is this even a thing or is it sarcasm? Honestly can't tell, the world is too mad now.

    it's not a thing

    but the gop either don't know that (unlikely) or they do know it and don't care (dingdingdingding)

    Look up Wilbur Ross remarks from the other day and Trump's fuzzy vision of the green grocer starting a tab for these people.

    In the 90s George Bush got painted as out of touch for not knowing about bar code scanners at the grocery store. Our media is such a farce.

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    Well. According to the government, loans or just have Walmart do you a solid and give you free groceries

    Is this even a thing or is it sarcasm? Honestly can't tell, the world is too mad now.

    Nope! Former was said by Wilbur Ross, latter was said by Trump.

    Neither of which has probably bought their own groceries for most of their lives.

    Incidentally both the sort who live on debt because it is a normal function of obscenely wealthy people to live on debt because they can make more with their liquid cash (and the debt money) than they pay in interest on the debt; so taking "loans" to them is just standard practice.

    And they probably have people buy them groceries (we know for sure with trump, given numerous other statements that indicate he has no idea what actually happens in a grocery store or checkout line), so to them, the paying for their groceries is a completely inscrutable event. Their experience in life is having things handed to them, as is so common, where wealthy people are given even more by companies and such looking for influence; that the idea of a store just being cool with totally letting you take those groceries, they know you, seems plausible. Why wouldn't it? If Trump visited an American Standard factory, they would probably just straight up give him a gold toilet.

    This isn't defending their idiocy! Simply reinforcing how profoundly "let them eat cake", from the top to the bottom, the statements where. They weren't mixups or poor word choices. These people don't live in the same reality that 99% of us do. They have literally no clue how an "average" person lives.

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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    So there is some additional context here. Not all federal contractors, nor most of them in fact, have lost out on pay to date. Most contract companies are paid, as the name implies, on contract. Usually with their operations bid paid in advance with various work-goal related bonuses for finishing ahead or on schedule. Many of these, especially in construction, also have a specific form of insurance where the government pays the company if they don't meet their obligations (with healthy bonuses), and vice versa if the company fails to deliver in a timely fashion.

    Many larger companies, or companies doing long-term work in defense maintenance or development, get paid in a block grant at the beginning of the year and retain that funding regardless of shutdowns until the next appropriations bill. So Bill the Aircraft Repair Part Producer may still be paid through October while is brother Phil the contracted janitor for the FBI building might already be missing a paycheck as his company is paid via monthly contract.

    This is not true for all contract employees, though. But while many of those 4 million are hurting, probably not all or even half of them have been directly hit yet. Though the odds of that happening grow with each day that passes.

    From the experiences I know from my family and friends who are contractors, many of which ARE in the group missing pay, this is fucking devastating and their companies are doing a lot to try and ensure once the faucet reopens they get some form of additional compensation to make up for it. But that stance too is not universal.

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  • NogginNoggin Registered User regular
    Contractor anecdote:

    Some were furloughed immediately (since 12/24), for others it varied. My wife and I were prefunded for a few weeks, and furloughed mid-day 1/14.

    We were paid 1/15 for the second half of December, and we will be partially paid 1/31 for the first half of January. From there it varies, depending on your decision to use paid time off (and go slightly negative) or leave without pay + unemployment.

    By immolating your PTO you’re covered for now, but if you end up leaving then you owe the company for those negative hours. You avoid that with LWOP, but now have no earnings to deduct health care costs from... so you have to pay out of pocket or use COBRA.

    The initial emails were “hope to see you back soon.” This week they sent out FAQ’s for those considering emergency 401k withdrawals...

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Enc wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    So there is some additional context here. Not all federal contractors, nor most of them in fact, have lost out on pay to date. Most contract companies are paid, as the name implies, on contract. Usually with their operations bid paid in advance with various work-goal related bonuses for finishing ahead or on schedule. Many of these, especially in construction, also have a specific form of insurance where the government pays the company if they don't meet their obligations (with healthy bonuses), and vice versa if the company fails to deliver in a timely fashion.

    Many larger companies, or companies doing long-term work in defense maintenance or development, get paid in a block grant at the beginning of the year and retain that funding regardless of shutdowns until the next appropriations bill. So Bill the Aircraft Repair Part Producer may still be paid through October while is brother Phil the contracted janitor for the FBI building might already be missing a paycheck as his company is paid via monthly contract.

    This is not true for all contract employees, though. But while many of those 4 million are hurting, probably not all or even half of them have been directly hit yet. Though the odds of that happening grow with each day that passes.

    From the experiences I know from my family and friends who are contractors, many of which ARE in the group missing pay, this is fucking devastating and their companies are doing a lot to try and ensure once the faucet reopens they get some form of additional compensation to make up for it. But that stance too is not universal.

    I just want to point out that the people who are working who are still being paid are still being impacted by this shutdown, and their co-workers not getting paid and/or not showing up to work.

    The work that is supposed to be being done by these organizations are supposed to be done by all the employees. Reduced staff means more work for the paid workers, and more stress for the unpaid who are forced to work.

    The "There are still a lot of people getting paid as normal" narrative needs to either disappear, or be nuanced enough to make clear that this is effecting virtually everyone; it is just to varying degrees. So when talking heads or politicians go on the news and make statements implying that a lot is still business as usual, they're either misinformed or lying.

    Because nothing is business as usual here.

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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    edited January 2019
    Enc was warned for this.
    Enc wrote: »
    Casual wrote: »
    Wow that is a disgrace. How are these people supposed to eat?

    So there is some additional context here. Not all federal contractors, nor most of them in fact, have lost out on pay to date. Most contract companies are paid, as the name implies, on contract. Usually with their operations bid paid in advance with various work-goal related bonuses for finishing ahead or on schedule. Many of these, especially in construction, also have a specific form of insurance where the government pays the company if they don't meet their obligations (with healthy bonuses), and vice versa if the company fails to deliver in a timely fashion.

    Many larger companies, or companies doing long-term work in defense maintenance or development, get paid in a block grant at the beginning of the year and retain that funding regardless of shutdowns until the next appropriations bill. So Bill the Aircraft Repair Part Producer may still be paid through October while is brother Phil the contracted janitor for the FBI building might already be missing a paycheck as his company is paid via monthly contract.

    This is not true for all contract employees, though. But while many of those 4 million are hurting, probably not all or even half of them have been directly hit yet. Though the odds of that happening grow with each day that passes.

    From the experiences I know from my family and friends who are contractors, many of which ARE in the group missing pay, this is fucking devastating and their companies are doing a lot to try and ensure once the faucet reopens they get some form of additional compensation to make up for it. But that stance too is not universal.

    I just want to point out that the people who are working who are still being paid are still being impacted by this shutdown, and their co-workers not getting paid and/or not showing up to work.

    The work that is supposed to be being done by these organizations are supposed to be done by all the employees. Reduced staff means more work for the paid workers, and more stress for the unpaid who are forced to work.

    The "There are still a lot of people getting paid as normal" narrative needs to either disappear, or be nuanced enough to make clear that this is effecting virtually everyone; it is just to varying degrees. So when talking heads or politicians go on the news and make statements implying that a lot is still business as usual, they're either misinformed or lying.

    Because nothing is business as usual here.

    I'm talking specifically about federal contractors and about what is specifically happening, from what I know from both family and friends who are about to lose their goddamn house. You can fuck right off with your deliberate misreading of my post for your own agenda.

    So It Goes on
  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Trump has been rich his whole life. I imagine he's NEVER had to buy ordinary groceries, and he's had servants to run and fetch things for him as long as he's been an adult. So the last time he bought something in a grocery store was probably as a teenager in the '60s, snacks or soda or something. What a gilded cage.

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  • Fleur de AlysFleur de Alys Biohacker Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    If I had to put a time limit on it, I think sometime mid february is the breaking point for working without pay for a lot of people as they churn through whatever savings they have.

    The fucked up thing is I'd say at least ten percent of people not being paid are already there.

    They're either out of cash or down to a symbolic amount and are moving through their available credit at an alarming late.

    They've canceled subscriptions and services, pulled their kids out of swim lessons and are figuring out which bills they can not pay in the meantime.

    People who are ostensibly middle class still live paycheck to paycheck because of being over mortgaged and over consuming.

    It's honestly probably a higher number and you're right in that a tipping point is likely on the horizon.
    I have family currently surviving on charity meals and fried spam. And yeah, less than a month from even the spam drying up and loss of remaining assets (I'll help if they'll take it, we'll see).

    And quitting to get another job isn't even an option, because Coast Guard. Trying that gets you a criminal prosecution. So it's starvation and loss of assets, enforced with a court-martial.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    So rumors and via Drudge Report and via sources of friends who work in different department than me with political appointees is that the announcement is a 2 week CR. I don't have a lot of good details. And I don't want to give how I got some of this outside I have friends in parts of the government as a person living in DC.

    I am not linking Drudge because they are notorious dicks and liars but I know they have contacts in the White House.

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So rumors and via Drudge Report and via sources of friends who work in different department than me with political appointees is that the announcement is a 2 week CR. I don't have a lot of good details. And I don't want to give how I got some of this outside I have friends in parts of the government as a person living in DC.

    I am not linking Drudge because they are notorious dicks and liars but I know they have contacts in the White House.

    That's nice and all .... but mcconnell and co. just voted that down yesterday .... and I seriously doubt they want to be in this exact position in 2 weeks

    also, the president can't announce a 2 week CR because he's not congress

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  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    He can announce that he'll sign it

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    He can announce that he'll sign it

    oh good point

    .... but that ignores the fact that he could have been forced to sign it over a month ago

    it's not a good look

    of course nothing about trump or the gop is a good look to a sane person so

  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    So rumors and via Drudge Report and via sources of friends who work in different department than me with political appointees is that the announcement is a 2 week CR. I don't have a lot of good details. And I don't want to give how I got some of this outside I have friends in parts of the government as a person living in DC.

    I am not linking Drudge because they are notorious dicks and liars but I know they have contacts in the White House.

    That's nice and all .... but mcconnell and co. just voted that down yesterday .... and I seriously doubt they want to be in this exact position in 2 weeks

    also, the president can't announce a 2 week CR because he's not congress

    See what SIG said. Gives clearance for the Republicans to vote it through. It passed with a majority but not cloture. McConnell is still in town and the Senate can be recalled.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Two weeks seems stupidly short, though. I mean, ignoring that they have to unbury from the last month of furloughs, all that 2 weeks gets you is backpay.

    Now, granted, that's a good thing. But why not just accept, like, a 2 month CR? Or 3 month? Give everyone time to negotiate.. or more importantly, forget about this.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    Two weeks seems stupidly short, though. I mean, ignoring that they have to unbury from the last month of furloughs, all that 2 weeks gets you is backpay.

    Now, granted, that's a good thing. But why not just accept, like, a 2 month CR? Or 3 month? Give everyone time to negotiate.. or more importantly, forget about this.

    Its about 6 weeks of back pay for folks. That is a lot. 2 weeks puts us to the February 8th deadline. You know what they passed in December.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    He can announce that he'll sign it

    oh good point

    .... but that ignores the fact that he could have been forced to sign it over a month ago

    it's not a good look

    of course nothing about trump or the gop is a good look to a sane person so

    The Senate GOP can't force him to sign it because then he turns on them and fucks their chances at reelection. This entire shutdown has hinged on Trump not wanting to backdown and the Senate GOP not wanting to cross him.

    If Trump decides today to say he'll sign a CR, it will basically instantly pass the Senate and then the House.

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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Athenor wrote: »
    Two weeks seems stupidly short, though. I mean, ignoring that they have to unbury from the last month of furloughs, all that 2 weeks gets you is backpay.

    Now, granted, that's a good thing. But why not just accept, like, a 2 month CR? Or 3 month? Give everyone time to negotiate.. or more importantly, forget about this.

    Its about 6 weeks of back pay for folks. That is a lot. 2 weeks puts us to the February 8th deadline. You know what they passed in December.

    Yeah, that's why it keeps being the deadline. The Democrats are pushing "do what you were gonna do anyway before Trump threw a tantrum".

  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    He can announce that he'll sign it

    oh good point

    .... but that ignores the fact that he could have been forced to sign it over a month ago

    it's not a good look

    of course nothing about trump or the gop is a good look to a sane person so

    The Senate GOP can't force him to sign it because then he turns on them and fucks their chances at reelection. This entire shutdown has hinged on Trump not wanting to backdown and the Senate GOP not wanting to cross him.

    If Trump decides today to say he'll sign a CR, it will basically instantly pass the Senate and then the House.

    Wasn't the whole point of yesterday's charade that senate leadership wanted to go home? I know you don't mean truly instant, but that does come to mind...

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  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Two weeks open is definitely less than I would like, but I feel like it shows a loss for Trump, gets him nothing, and gives much needed relief to a lot of people.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    Two weeks seems stupidly short, though. I mean, ignoring that they have to unbury from the last month of furloughs, all that 2 weeks gets you is backpay.

    Now, granted, that's a good thing. But why not just accept, like, a 2 month CR? Or 3 month? Give everyone time to negotiate.. or more importantly, forget about this.

    You can't negotiate without your leverage of people suffering.

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    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    He can announce that he'll sign it

    oh good point

    .... but that ignores the fact that he could have been forced to sign it over a month ago

    it's not a good look

    of course nothing about trump or the gop is a good look to a sane person so

    The Senate GOP can't force him to sign it because then he turns on them and fucks their chances at reelection. This entire shutdown has hinged on Trump not wanting to backdown and the Senate GOP not wanting to cross him.

    If Trump decides today to say he'll sign a CR, it will basically instantly pass the Senate and then the House.

    Wasn't the whole point of yesterday's charade that senate leadership wanted to go home? I know you don't mean truly instant, but that does come to mind...

    Yes but they will take some time to actually work to stop the bleeding.

  • HiroconHirocon Registered User regular
    A two week CR will let Trump give the SOTU. Then the shutdown will resume in full force.

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