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US Government Shutdown 2018/2019 - read mod post on pg 23

1808183858694

Posts

  • So It GoesSo It Goes We keep moving...Registered User regular
    Reach a deal on the wall or I'll declare an emergency?

    Lol yeah that's a true emergency. Contingent on Congressional deal making...

    XaquinjoshofalltradesFuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFencingsaxMatevPreacherHiroconOghulkkimeMartini_PhilosopherBucketmanabotkinTetraNitroCubaneThawmustynicMolotovCockatoonever dieVeagleNightslyrshrykeoverride367Gnome-InterruptusRhesus PositiveElvenshaeEmerlmaster999JoolanderAbsoluteZeroKnight_jmcdonaldBullheadmjn6172FawstZomroTofystedethchrono_travellerRchanenDuke 2.0A Kobold's KoboldCommander ZoomBlackDragon480Captain InertiajdarksunZonugalNiryaElldrenGennenalyse RuebenJaysonFourAegeriStabbity StyleKristmas KthulhuCalicaFlying CouchLabelSkeiththatassemblyguyMan in the Mistschrishallett83emp123Lord_Asmodeus
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Brody wrote: »
    Xaquin wrote: »
    Mvrck wrote: »
    Mvrck wrote: »
    I hope the Dems refuse to voice vote it.

    Nah, just get the government open again. Being shitty about it at this point would be counterproductive when the narrative is going to be, "Trump could have made this announcement at any time over the past 30+ days, this whole thing is his fault".

    Voice vote means McConnell can say that the 43 dissenters were all Dems trying to keep things shut down. I don't like the idea of giving him that leverage, however small it may be.

    are voice votes not recorded?

    how could you possibly have that situation?

    When voice voting, the Senate Majority Leader can say "We have a passing majority, does anyone disagree?" and if everyone shuts up and lets it happen, no one has to actually vote on anything. Its an easy way to let shitty people hide in anonymity, but its also our best hope of getting some support for people who really fucking need it.

    damn, that should be done away with asafp in my opinion. talk about shady

    I mean, its super easy to stop. One person just has to say "No, we vote for reals", and then everyone has to vote on the record. It sounds shady because it looks at first like a quick way to fuck everything, but really its just there so you don't have to stand around and wait for 100 people to stop looking at their phones to say "Aye" when you know you have something that will pass 100-0. (Like a clean CR the week before Christmas and everyone wants to go home.)

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
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  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    edited January 25
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I can’t shake the feeling that we’re going to pay a lot of government workers now to buy some goodwill and then put them through the same thing again in a few weeks.

    If Pelosi is smart, the first thing dems pass on monday is a CR for 6 months

    She’s not really the one I’m worried about.

    People need to be paid, and they need to take care of their families, and the government should meet its obligations. But so much of this presidency has been about slowly, if intermittently, repeating batshit things until they no longer stir the same outrage. So a temporary walk back doesn’t thrill me for now.

    Edit: Short version, people are angry now, and getting angrier, as they should be. Generally at the right people too, which is a miracle. But I don’t trust them to remember that in two weeks.

    OneAngryPossum on
    XaquinjoshofalltradesRchanen
  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Attempting to declare an emergency to go around congress's authority should trigger impeachment proceedings. Congress should have to actively abdicate their power.

    Whippy wrote: »
    nope nope nope nope abort abort talk about anime
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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist Registered User regular
    I really cannot stand listening to Trump talk.

    I'm going to listen to this one.

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    I can’t shake the feeling that we’re going to pay a lot of government workers now to buy some goodwill and then put them through the same thing again in a few weeks.

    If Pelosi is smart, the first thing dems pass on monday is a CR for 6 months

    She’s not really the one I’m worried about.

    People need to be paid, and they need to take care of their families, and the government should meet its obligations. But so much of this presidency has been about slowly, if intermittently, repeating batshit things until they no longer stir the same outrage. So a temporary walk back doesn’t thrill me for now.

    agreed, it's not optimal, but with mcconnell and trump, any positive turns into a massive positive (which sucks and definitely should not be the norm)

    OneAngryPossum
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    The thing I'm worried about is that people will forget about this in a year and a half week, or remember it but downplay it as "not so bad".

    Every time stuff like this happens we normalize it just a little bit more, when in a just world shutting the government down for more than a month and making people miss two -- two! -- paychecks would be cause for utter destruction of the party responsible.

    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
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  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Registered User regular
    Remember when I said payday lenders would be doing gangbusters business during the shutdown? Well...



    Bloomberg is a news service.

    I'd call them vultures, but vultures actually fill a useful role in the food chain.

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  • TuminTumin Registered User regular
    Would another shutdown really go the way this one went? Just shut down air travel day 1 and the government caves, that's the way out in the future. There is nothing the President can do to disarm aviation workers from exercising their power that way. Just massive walkouts everytime they are "working without pay" or there is a huge furlough.

    MorganVKayne Red Robe
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    The thing I'm worried about is that people will forget about this in a year and a half week, or remember it but downplay it as "not so bad".

    Every time stuff like this happens we normalize it just a little bit more, when in a just world shutting the government down for more than a month and making people miss two -- two! -- paychecks would be cause for utter destruction of the party responsible.

    It'll be normalized. We've normalized worse things than this in the name of "Just Trying to Make It Through the Fucking Day Without Losing My Shit."

    Which, I mean, I understand.

    There's so many moral and social crises being juggled that this really is just another flaming chainsaw thrown in.

    Make. Time.
    SleepFencingsaxjoshofalltradesMrVyngaard
  • No-QuarterNo-Quarter Nothing to Fear But Fear ItselfRegistered User regular
    Never has one little pause carried so much contempt:



    Adam Parkhomenko is a Democratic strategist.

    As a recipient of said pause put it:


    That ... pause .... before “statement” is everything you need to know and nothing you want to experience firsthand.

    Christine Pelosi is an advocate and daughter of Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

    That is just...

    The audio cuts out for me what does she say?

  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Remember the flight attendants' union talking about a strike? Well they're about to get started. Good on them, I say.
    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/flight-attendants-are-mobilizing-immediately-union-says.html
    “We’re mobilizing immediately,” Nelson said. Asked if this meant that flight attendants will not be going to work, she responded, “Showing up to work for what? If air traffic controllers can’t do their jobs, we can’t do ours.”

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
    XaquinBrodyMartini_PhilosopherMatevLadaidurandal4532AbsalonGONG-00BucketmanMegaMeknever dieNightslyrshrykeRhesus PositiveElvenshaeEmerlmaster999JoolanderShortyShadowfireRchanenDuke 2.0A Kobold's KoboldOrcaBlackDragon480jdarksunZonugalNiryaElldrenJaysonFourGennenalyse RuebenStabbity StyleCalicaSkeithMan in the Mistschrishallett83emp123Lord_Asmodeus
  • OghulkOghulk biggest externality low-energy economistRegistered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Reach a deal on the wall or I'll declare an emergency?

    Lol yeah that's a true emergency. Contingent on Congressional deal making doing exactly as I ask of them...

    Fixed that. And also I'm almost of the mind that they should say no to this "deal" as well. A 3 week deal doesn't accomplish anything other than give the GOP some not bad PR. In 3 weeks we know exactly what will happen: no wall funding, emergency order, government shuts down

    raoADVy.png
    Sleepdurandal4532
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »


    So in 15 minutes.

    If this is a clean CR and not another BS Kushner attempt and it goes through it is Trump caving.

    Literally the Dems just getting what they wanted. Even if it is 2 weeks. The next one will be harder for Trump as he will be shown as having the weaker hand.

    So let us hope Drudge is right on this one no matter how much I hate them.

    Yeah, I can't see the Republicans being in a better position in 2 or 3 weeks. Even if nothing more happens with Trump himself, the immediate question most people would ask is how many paychecks Federal employees should miss before the Republicans fold again.

    They're hoping that can reset the clock, as it were, and have less immediate pressure during the negotiations with the Dems.

    Also so Trump can do the SotU.

    MidniteElvenshaeCommander ZoomMan in the Mists
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Never has one little pause carried so much contempt:



    Adam Parkhomenko is a Democratic strategist.

    As a recipient of said pause put it:


    That ... pause .... before “statement” is everything you need to know and nothing you want to experience firsthand.

    Christine Pelosi is an advocate and daughter of Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

    That is just...

    The audio cuts out for me what does she say?

    "Secretary Ross made his... statement"

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
    Elvenshaechrono_travellerElldrenMan in the Mists
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    I imagine that even though a 2-week extension isn't ideal, things will go much worse much quicker if the government shuts down again afterwards.

    Like, I can't imagine that Trump shuts down the government again and declares a national emergency and the combined forces of government workers don't go "fuck this" like immediately.

    SleepFencingsaxPreacherMarathonGnome-InterruptusCommander ZoomMan in the Mistschrishallett83
  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    No-Quarter wrote: »
    Never has one little pause carried so much contempt:



    Adam Parkhomenko is a Democratic strategist.

    As a recipient of said pause put it:


    That ... pause .... before “statement” is everything you need to know and nothing you want to experience firsthand.

    Christine Pelosi is an advocate and daughter of Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

    That is just...

    The audio cuts out for me what does she say?

    Ever been dressed down by your parent, and as they reach the conclusion, they pause before the last word, and you suddenly feel 6 inches tall because of the weight of that disapproval?

    That's what she did.

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    ElvenshaeMild Confusion
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Reach a deal on the wall or I'll declare an emergency?

    Lol yeah that's a true emergency. Contingent on Congressional deal making doing exactly as I ask of them...

    Fixed that. And also I'm almost of the mind that they should say no to this "deal" as well. A 3 week deal doesn't accomplish anything other than give the GOP some not bad PR. In 3 weeks we know exactly what will happen: no wall funding, emergency order, government shuts down

    It puts food on peoples tables and allows them to keep their house from being foreclosed on.

    There's no wall funding included here, if the original deal stands. There's a time for stern stands and there's a time to allow people to pay for their car notes and electric bills.

    Make. Time.
    joshofalltradesBloodsheedMidniteThe SauceAngelHedgiesilence1186MatevCantideXaquinPreacherSenna1QuidBucketmanMegaMekkimeAPODionysusNightslyroverride367shrykeElvenshaeGnome-InterruptusJragghenKayne Red RobeArdolLordSolarMachariuschrono_travellerRchanenA Kobold's KoboldForarCommander ZoomLovelyBlackDragon480jdarksunNiryaElldrenJaysonFourGennenalyse RuebenKristmas KthulhulazegamerCalicaPenumbraSkeiththatassemblyguyKoopahTroopahabotkinemp123Lord_Asmodeus
  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    Yeah the workers have no reason to work unpaid under another shutdown. Day one they'd be like "Fuck you stop doing this."

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Reach a deal on the wall or I'll declare an emergency?

    Lol yeah that's a true emergency. Contingent on Congressional deal making doing exactly as I ask of them...

    Fixed that. And also I'm almost of the mind that they should say no to this "deal" as well. A 3 week deal doesn't accomplish anything other than give the GOP some not bad PR. In 3 weeks we know exactly what will happen: no wall funding, emergency order, government shuts down

    It puts food on peoples tables and allows them to keep their house from being foreclosed on.

    There's no wall funding included here, if the original deal stands. There's a time for stern stands and there's a time to allow people to pay for their car notes and electric bills.

    We all know that once the government is reopened, they've got nothing. The "3 weeks or I declare an emergency!" framing is just putting on a brave face while they run with their tails between their legs.

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    青!
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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Honestly if a two or three week deal is the best the government can do, workers should continue to strike anyway. Because that's a hot load of shit.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
    American politics isn't 4D chess, it's just if you give a shit about other people or not.
    jungleroomxBlackDragon480
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    If it shuts down again it is on Trump again. This is not good for Republicans. The speed of the pain kicks in faster. And you get airports and such shutting down even faster. And push back even greater.

    My guess is that half way through the reopen quietly passed is a CR to move things on while everyone focuses on the border wall bill or whatever. That is the smart way to do it and no one looks like they caved a second time.

    03x29di.png
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  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Yeah the workers have no reason to work unpaid under another shutdown. Day one they'd be like "Fuck you stop doing this."

    It can't have escaped their notice that once airlines stopped shielding them from consequences, they promptly reopened the government.

    In the future I would make them feel the pain ASAP.

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    青!
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  • MaximumMaximum Registered User regular
    I don't see how they can risk another shutdown. People already have their pitchforks out for this one, if they force another so soon it'll be political suicide.

    Marathon
  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    A brief re-opening of government means that a lot fewer people pass the month mark for not being able to pay bills. Two or three more weeks of shutdown would have been people without power, phone, internet, beginning foreclosure proceedings, food banks running out of stock, and the entire air traffic system grinding to a halt.

    If they shut it down again in a few weeks it will be horrible press for the GOP but it still won't be nearly as bad as even one more week of unrelieved shutdown would be right now.

    If Trump really caves today and they get a CR through I'm betting he caves for good. He'll try to roll out his 'national emergency' in a few weeks and it will immediately grind to a halt in the courts before it even gets out of the driveway and he'll just bitch about how the no-good courts are keeping him from enacting his campaign promises for the rest of his time in office or until one of the ten thousand other scandals consumes all of his attention.

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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Reach a deal on the wall or I'll declare an emergency?

    Lol yeah that's a true emergency. Contingent on Congressional deal making...

    Honestly though if he is stupid enough to open that door that could work heavily in favor of the dems going forward. It would be way easier to justify a national emergency for infrastructure or climate change. Hell its easy enough to point to bridges that are literally falling apart that is an actual can kill people emergency.

  • AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    Oghulk wrote: »
    So It Goes wrote: »
    Reach a deal on the wall or I'll declare an emergency?

    Lol yeah that's a true emergency. Contingent on Congressional deal making doing exactly as I ask of them...

    Fixed that. And also I'm almost of the mind that they should say no to this "deal" as well. A 3 week deal doesn't accomplish anything other than give the GOP some not bad PR. In 3 weeks we know exactly what will happen: no wall funding, emergency order, government shuts down

    Doing that actually would undercut the Dems messaging and would be going all the way down to the Republicans level.

    A clean CR is a clean CR and they need to pass it or else the Dems become just as culpable. The whole thing is that opening the government is not a bargaining chip. Even if you want to bargain for the government being open longer you can't use the shutdown to bargain.

    If the government shuts down again in three weeks the Dem's hands will be clean and they can go right back to the same line.

    If the Dems rejected this deal the narrative would immediately flip on them: "Democrats reject clean CR, keeping the government closed and demanding concessions!"

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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    so it's been a half hour. what was said? or is he late?

  • TuminTumin Registered User regular
    He is late.

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  • HiroconHirocon Registered User regular
    Tumin wrote: »
    Would another shutdown really go the way this one went? Just shut down air travel day 1 and the government caves, that's the way out in the future. There is nothing the President can do to disarm aviation workers from exercising their power that way. Just massive walkouts everytime they are "working without pay" or there is a huge furlough.

    Yes, if Republicans try to resume the shutdown in two weeks then every single federal worker in the aviation industry should just call in sick on day one of the resumed shutdown.

    Orca
  • TaximesTaximes Registered User regular
    Still waitin' on that livestream. I wouldn't be surprised if he is literally arguing with people right now about whether the speech is to cave or to declare an emergency.

    ThawmusDaenrisFencingsaxCantideVeagleMatevmcdermottCommander ZoomGennenalyse RuebenMan in the Mists
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Xaquin wrote: »
    so it's been a half hour. what was said? or is he late?

    It hasn't started yet

    camo_sig.png
    Thawmus
  • Desktop HippieDesktop Hippie ATOMIKA! IT’S ME! IT’S DESKTOP HIPPIE!Registered User regular
    I’m seeing stuff that Trump is due to give a live press conference offering “remarks” on the shutdown at 1:30pm EST today? I’ve got a Twitter link to a live broadcast from Euronews, a European public broadcast news service, but so far its just video of lots of reporters waiting around in the rose garden.

    muhqxj.jpg
  • CptHamiltonCptHamilton Registered User regular
    There is a zero percent chance Dems will block a clean 3 week CR. There's higher odds that they pass a clean CR 100-0 and Trump vetoes it anyway in a fit of pique than that Dems would vote against 3 weeks of government with no wall funding.

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  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    Honestly if a two or three week deal is the best the government can do, workers should continue to strike anyway. Because that's a hot load of shit.

    Nobody is striking, and they will continue to not be striking for the foreseeable future, as striking is cause for immediate termination, and I believe giving up any residual benefits.

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
    CptHamiltonThawmusmcdermott
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Tumin wrote: »
    He is late.

    ugh, I hope fox isn't sinking this

    BucketmanOrca
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades 地獄のようにかわいい あなたは嫉妬深いかRegistered User regular
    Hirocon wrote: »
    Tumin wrote: »
    Would another shutdown really go the way this one went? Just shut down air travel day 1 and the government caves, that's the way out in the future. There is nothing the President can do to disarm aviation workers from exercising their power that way. Just massive walkouts everytime they are "working without pay" or there is a huge furlough.

    Yes, if Republicans try to resume the shutdown in two weeks then every single federal worker in the aviation industry should just call in sick on day one of the resumed shutdown.

    I wouldn't even do a sick-out, just immediately walk off the job and strike. Make it clear that your paycheck is not something you can sit at home and wait for, and that there will be no flights as long as they're using your livelihood as a hostage.

    ジェイムズ・ブラウンの好きな色は何ですか?
    青!
  • MvrckMvrck Registered User regular
    Brody wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Honestly if a two or three week deal is the best the government can do, workers should continue to strike anyway. Because that's a hot load of shit.

    Nobody is striking, and they will continue to not be striking for the foreseeable future, as striking is cause for immediate termination, and I believe giving up any residual benefits.

    The Flight Attendants Union is talking about striking. And they are not Federal employees.

    PwH4Ipj.jpg
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  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Whats the message from right wing media/twitter right now? Have they already talked him out of a CR?

    "I will write your name in the ruin of them. I will paint you across history in the color of their blood."

    The Monster Baru Cormorant - Seth Dickinson
This discussion has been closed.