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US Government Shutdown 2018/2019 - read mod post on pg 23

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Posts

  • CasualCasual Wiggle Wiggle Wiggle Flap Flap Flap Registered User regular
    Henroid wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    Pelosi should tell Trump no to a SOTU because of his stupid fucking threat of another shutdown.

    Nope nope nope.

    The deal was no SOTU until the government opens. If the government opens, then he should get to do his SOTU, because that is how deal making works among grown ups with principles.

    It's only 3 weeks, but this is a huge win. Trump shut down the government, he got absolutely nothing he wanted, the dems had impeccable message control, and Trump reopened the government.

    He got fucking nothing from this but shitty polls and horrible narrative.

    The dems held fast, and they - particularly Pelosi - deserve an ungodly amount of accolades for this.
    I'm a bit torn I suppose. Like calm rational me says this is all good as you've laid it out, but I'm pretty vengeful in my thinking and Trump already threatening another shutdown is infuriating. I guess it's better to cross that bridge when we get there. I don't like that it's in sight already.

    I think the most pressing point is this is three weeks where millions of government employees get money to spend on food and shelter. Theres no point in continuing to make these people suffer because we're mad Trump has left employing their future suffering as a threat. Let them get them get their mortgages and rent paid this month to keep the repo men away then we can worry about what he does next when it happens?

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    As much as we'd like the Dems to push this further, they should pass the clean CR as is. They can always bring back "No negotiations until the government is reopened" if they run out of time.

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  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    I'll be interested if any GOP 2020 vultures in the Senate force a recorded vote or not. I'm not sure it is a good play for any Dems to do it and it's too likely to blow the deal to boot.

  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 25
    The Democrats didn't cave in for any wall money to get the government open

    I'm pretty happy with that

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited January 25
    cursedking wrote: »
    cursedking wrote: »
    I absolutely do not understand why democratic senators do not bring up, over and over, that they can overturn a veto with enough votes.

    Bernie Sanders is currently railing on Trump about what has gone on, and how he's threatening to shut down the government closed again.

    But Trump can't do that! He can veto the bill and then the GOP could vote overwhelmingly to overturn that veto. That absolutely has to be part of the conversation and be loud. They're not powerless.

    Trump's popularity is crashing. He can't do anything to them for it.

    I too think this is the perfect time to pass an actual bill to lay Trump out as I said in a previous post; but practically a CR is needed immediately.

    The CR they'll pass is one that is already written (presumably one of the ones already passed by the House) and can get the government open and people paid immediately.

    Afterward, if they could pull their heads out of their asses, they could push for an actual bill, and I think you'd find that they could negotiate more on partisan spending wants/concerns if they took their concern of Trump off the table (which they should!). It would, in any other time, be viewed as an incredibly questionable bill, for both sides, as I'm sure money would be spent where Dems don't want and vice versa for Republicans.

    But they'd show competence and strength against the White House and be the functional "finishing move" to completely remove Trump from the legislative picture. Both parties could do it without weakening their positions on presidential power even! Because it would be abundantly clear it wasn't a move to limit the executive; but to limit Trump specifically without actually doing anything to single him out on paper.

    Bonus points if they could put it on his desk prior to the new "deadline".

    So, in summary, this is how I'd do it, if this were a game where I was in control :lol:

    1) Pass the CR. Maybe tack in a bit that isn't outright denying Trump the ability to use emergency powers for wall funding, but would provide enough indirect means for congress to have additional authority to halt it. Or not, maybe just pass it.
    2) Open the government, get people paid and back to work.
    3) Get copious amounts of public support from every side but the far right. That's fine.
    4) Whip the living fuck out of enough Republicans to override a veto. This really shouldn't be hard, they can read the polling data as well as anyone else
    5) Pass a bipartisan (and likely far from ideal, but the act is more important than the details; they've been passing compromised CR's and budgets for years now, this doesn't have to be different, it just needs to happen) that denies Trump wall funding, but giving money to border security (like the Dems CR; again, focus on the bigger picture and not the unpalatable parts) to point to when Trump tries to throw a hissy fit.
    6a) Trump signs it: Celebrate a massive boost in public opinion about the functioning of Congress, nosedive in support for Trump and the bonus of having on record distance from trump for Republicans who are in more risky seats and will need cover in an impeachment trial
    6b) Trump vetos it: Override it and get an even bigger boost in public opinion, further restoring hope and faith in the system and making Trump look even more incompetent and ineffectual because the further they can get from him for, at the very least 2020, but likely ongoing investigations, the higher chance Republicans have of keeping their seats (They've got 22 seats up in 2020, it is their election to lose).

    Keep in mind I'm not supporting Republicans staying in power.

    However I am supporting the idea of a return to sanity even if it means providing Republicans a means to keep seats if it means a functional government and provides an out for anyone who really wasn't a Trumper but were forced into it by the political climate. I'm also not defending those people, because, grow a fucking spine.

    I'm just saying, Congress could turn this win into the the biggest touchdown spike in possibly all of US history; given that the reassurance of the system and visible functioning would do a whole hell of a lot, both domestically and abroad, for perceptions of the US right now and its viability.

    EDIT: McConnell, if you're reading this; you get a win here too. You're still the Senate Majority Leader, you show strength here, that just makes you all that much more powerful and influential. And if nothing else think of the sheer amount of fundraising you could get off this. You get all the money, you keep the power (if you can keep it in 2020, but this would make it easier), and for better or worse, you get public praise from moderates and some liberals for "doing the right thing".

    Oh yeah, I agree that the CR should be passed today, I just mean that on like, day 14 of this shutdown the Senate could have conceivably just said you know what, fuck you, here's a 12 month bill fuck off. They just didn't.

    Which is why I feel like the Dems should make that a louder aspect of the press rounds. It's not just on Trump.

    The Senate, man I don't even know. Pelosi is getting, and deserves to get, ample praise for all of this. But on the Senate side I kind of hope at the same time Schumer is seen as ineffective as he is. McConnell is a coward, and only picks fights he knows he can win, or manipulate into winning (including obstruction). Nothing coming out of the Senate isn't surprising.

    The House on the other hand needed to pass something (and they did) to start the government and had a chance of passing in the Senate. If they pushed for a full bill in the face of obvious failure, it would have been seen as ineffective and could have shifted opinion against them; because prior to today Trump still had theoretical power, and it's clear he's who has been running the Senate Republicans.

    This capitulation changed everything though. Now, yes, push a real bill, and push it hard. I think Democrats would get on board, and I think even the far left would have the sense to do the same; because the end result would be to either weaken Trump further or force Republicans to join Trump in being fully to blame for anything that happens after the CR expires, if they fight it.

    But yeah, why they didn't do it prior to the shutdown, I can understand. Also, they had passed a CR (which have become incredibly common this century, so it isn't terribly unusual, even thought it probably should be) that would have passed the Senate prior to the shutdown until Trump went full toddler.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Also Trump has done at least 3 "the mexicans are gonna getcha" speeches in the past month, so, honestly, let him have his SotU. I doubt he'll have any new material, aside from whatever he happens to make up at that particular second.

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular


    PBS news correspondent so complete denial from the Trump white house.

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    As much as we'd like the Dems to push this further, they should pass the clean CR as is. They can always bring back "No negotiations until the government is reopened" if they run out of time.

    This goes back to Sauce's rant earlier - gamesmanship now would be the democrats putting politics ahead of people. They got everything they wanted. From the earlier metaphor, the hostages are freed, and the hostage taker literally got nothing.

    Now that he's seen the consequences, if he tries to do this again in three weeks, it's going to be a disaster, because it's going to rest even more squarely on his shoulders than it does now.

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  • DoodmannDoodmann Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »


    PBS news correspondent so complete denial from the Trump white house.

    Living in a kleptocracy where the government blatantly and obviously lies to your face is weird.

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  • CogCog Registered User regular
    Also Trump has done at least 3 "the mexicans are gonna getcha" speeches in the past month, so, honestly, let him have his SotU. I doubt he'll have any new material, aside from whatever he happens to make up at that particular second.

    For real, he did the fear-monger thing twice already this month on tv. If wants to get up there and bang that racist drum again, get out of his way. It’s only playing with one group of people.

    Elvenshae
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Doodmann wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »


    PBS news correspondent so complete denial from the Trump white house.

    Living in a kleptocracy where the government blatantly and obviously lies to your face is weird.

    I feel it may be more his advisers lying to his face so he gives up.

    03x29di.png
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  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »


    PBS news correspondent so complete denial from the Trump white house.

    Manchin, the senator from wv, joe, and ummm manchwin

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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »


    PBS news correspondent so complete denial from the Trump white house.

    I'm sure Pelosi will be happy to let a handful of Reps in marginal districts vote that way. Because she knows how to count up to 218 while the White House doesn't.

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  • SmurphSmurph Registered User regular
    Also Trump has done at least 3 "the mexicans are gonna getcha" speeches in the past month, so, honestly, let him have his SotU. I doubt he'll have any new material, aside from whatever he happens to make up at that particular second.

    Agreed. If Democrats pull the "It's still cancelled because we're mad" move, Republicans will 100% use it as and excuse to cancel the SOTU if they ever have the House with a Democrat president in the future.

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  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »


    PBS news correspondent so complete denial from the Trump white house.

    I heard that many people, the best people, are saying this. Believe me.



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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    Also Trump has done at least 3 "the mexicans are gonna getcha" speeches in the past month, so, honestly, let him have his SotU. I doubt he'll have any new material, aside from whatever he happens to make up at that particular second.

    I mean, because I enjoy me the schadenfreude, I want so badly for Trump to sign the CR and for Pelosi to say "oh, no, you're still not getting a SotU" And it would be justified! The government could be fully operational by tomorrow, but the costs of fast tracking security, organization, etc, for the SotU could easily be viewed as unnecessary or excessive.

    Sure, it would completely guarantee a shutdown again after the CR expires, but does anyone really believe that isn't inevitable anyway, short of a miracle happening in Congress?

    On the other hand, it would probably be seen as petty, which it would be :lol: and the last thing Pelosi should do right now is create negative press in the light of a major win.

    So she most definitely shouldn't stop it.

    But I kinda want her to.

    Regardless, yes, it is just going to be a rambling racist screed, and possibly more unhinged and off script than we've ever seen him during his presidency.

    Maybe too, this just crossed my mind, if he goes full crazy, it gives people the ability to make a statement by walking out. Sure that'd break so many tradition and norms, but god would it be great. Trump goes full racist, people start leaving, winning points for not standing (sitting) for it, and likely further enraging Trump when he sees it, sending him off the rails further. Hell, maybe he starts attacking the SCOTUS and they nope the fuck out too. I mean, to be fair, Obama basically said to their face at his SotU they done fucked up with Citizens United, but he did it in a way diplomatic enough that while it certainly got attention, didn't go so far as to openly attack the court. Trump, on the other hand, has no boundaries or filter.

    But that's all just daydreaming.

    He'll get his SotU, and it is the right political move by Pelosi. We don't have to watch it, and she was right the other day when she said it was "so unimportant" to Americans. This year I think people would watch it more because of the sheer trainwreck of it, but maybe that'll help? I guess the worst case scenario is Trump manages to muster some level of normalcy and doesn't go off the rails and we are subjected to a few days of "wow, he seemed presidential" in the press.

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  • cursedkingcursedking Registered User regular
    Doug Jones just introduced a bill that would pay federal workers interest on the money there were not paid.

    "we can charge interest on people not paying their taxes on time, we demand it in fact - and we also penalize them on top of that. If that's true, then we should pay interest as if the employee was a vendor who was paid late (already standing legislation, set at 3.5%)"

    that bill kicks ass

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    21 moderate idiots in the House wrote a letter to Pelosi asking her to cave earlier this week. She ignored them because she's not a moron.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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  • kaidkaid Registered User regular
    cursedking wrote: »
    Doug Jones just introduced a bill that would pay federal workers interest on the money there were not paid.

    "we can charge interest on people not paying their taxes on time, we demand it in fact - and we also penalize them on top of that. If that's true, then we should pay interest as if the employee was a vendor who was paid late (already standing legislation, set at 3.5%)"

    that bill kicks ass

    Also helps offset any short term loans people had to take out to make ends meet.

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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    21 moderate idiots in the House wrote a letter to Pelosi asking her to cave earlier this week. She ignored them because she's not a moron.

    If I remember the letter, it wasn't to cave it was to open the government and then hold a vote on the wall after the government was open. It was a promise to vote after everything is online. NPR interview a few of them as they represent the DC area with a shit ton of folks out of work and were being heavily pressured.

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited January 25
    They honestly should put a tiny bit of wording in the bill that if the senate or house fails to come to an agreement after the deadline passes, the previous year's funding becomes the current year's funding by default.

    It's not like anyone's going to read it. Well... not Trump or McConnell anyways.

    bowen on
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  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    They should schedule the sotu for after this coming cr lapses. So if he doesn't sign something more permenant is gets postponed again until the government reopens.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
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  • HedgethornHedgethorn Associate Professor of Historical Hobby Horses In the Lions' DenRegistered User regular
    cursedking wrote: »
    D Mark Warner says "I don't think we'll ever...fully know what was the straw the broke the camel's back..."

    dude it was the airlines, it took 5 hours of airlines shutting down for trump to back down.

    The airlines + the 14,000 IRS employees who were supposed to come in today for the start of tax season and didn't show. The admin knew they'd really lose their supporters if tax refunds got delayed.

    Elvenshae
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    They honestly should put a tiny bit of wording in the bill that if the senate or house fails to come to an agreement after the deadline passes, the previous year's funding becomes the current year's funding by default.

    It's not like anyone's going to read it. Well... not Trump or McConnell anyways.

    McConnell/his staff will. He's terrible at being a human being, but strong on parliamentary fuckery.

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  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    They should schedule the sotu for after this coming cr lapses. So if he doesn't sign something more permenant is gets postponed again until the government reopens.

    Already mentioned, and probably a bad idea. It could potentially be spun into shutdown brinkmanship on the Democrats’ part, and make it easier to try and pin equal blame on then for a new shutdown.

    Hirocon
  • SassoriSassori Registered User regular
    cursedking wrote: »
    Doug Jones just introduced a bill that would pay federal workers interest on the money there were not paid.

    "we can charge interest on people not paying their taxes on time, we demand it in fact - and we also penalize them on top of that. If that's true, then we should pay interest as if the employee was a vendor who was paid late (already standing legislation, set at 3.5%)"

    that bill kicks ass


    Oh my gosh that would be amazing. I’m going to try not to get my hopes up about it, but even something small would help a lot of people (and also help them prep in case another shutdown is coming.)

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  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I don't see how, as the president only doesn't get his sotu if he shuts down the government again.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    It was almost certainly air travel that ended it. The air travel network is the opposite of the internet...where one is intended to be robust against a single link failure and gracefully fall back on alternate routes, the other seems remarkably fragile and can immediately enter a cascade failure at the loss of a single major hub airport.

    When delays began today, that was the end of it. Because delays lower throughout, and there’s not a lot of excess slack nowadays to pick that throughout up elsewhere or later. The queue just builds up.

    I experienced a form of this when my Army (Guard) unit all tried to fly home for leave before our deployment. Several thousand guys bought basically *all* the seats out of a small regional airport over a couple week period. Airlines overbook on the assumption a small percentage won’t show up. Obviously all of us showed up. Day after day. Eventually the unit had to charter buses to get us to the nearest major hub, because the standby list was multiple flights deep.

    That’s exactly what will happen when a couple major hubs wind up on delays and reduced capacity for multiple days in a row. Tomorrow’s empty seats aren’t sufficient for the folks that got bumped at the end of today, and the capacity for tomorrow is reduced anyway, and the whole thing falls apart very quickly.

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  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    Yeah it might cost a bit and the security I'm sure will still be a nightmare (though hey, at least the agents will get paid), but letting the SOTU go through as normal is 100% the correct move.

    The message was "No discussion of anything until the government opens". When the government opens then the SoTU can happen, and discussions can happen about the wall (Hopefully those discussions are "Hey let's not build a wall").

    If the dems go "Oh the governments open but NEENER NEENER NEENER", kiss goodbye to them ever doing or winning anything ever again. They would immediately lose face on the next shutdown, they would guarantee the next shutdown happens, they would lose votes, and they would entrench that the next 2 years is going to be flailing and kicking while real people get hurt.

    It's the worst possible idea anyone has ever come up with

    Descendant XHiroconJayKaosSmurphMartini_PhilosopherCommander ZoomDuke 2.0Gnome-InterruptusMatevElvenshaeJoolanderGennenalyse RuebenMild Confusion
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    mcdermott wrote: »
    It was almost certainly air travel that ended it. The air travel network is the opposite of the internet...where one is intended to be robust against a single link failure and gracefully fall back on alternate routes, the other seems remarkably fragile and can immediately enter a cascade failure at the loss of a single major hub airport.

    When delays began today, that was the end of it. Because delays lower throughout, and there’s not a lot of excess slack nowadays to pick that throughout up elsewhere or later. The queue just builds up.

    I experienced a form of this when my Army (Guard) unit all tried to fly home for leave before our deployment. Several thousand guys bought basically *all* the seats out of a small regional airport over a couple week period. Airlines overbook on the assumption a small percentage won’t show up. Obviously all of us showed up. Day after day. Eventually the unit had to charter buses to get us to the nearest major hub, because the standby list was multiple flights deep.

    That’s exactly what will happen when a couple major hubs wind up on delays and reduced capacity for multiple days in a row. Tomorrow’s empty seats aren’t sufficient for the folks that got bumped at the end of today, and the capacity for tomorrow is reduced anyway, and the whole thing falls apart very quickly.

    I'd bet they're definitely not going to get 30+ days next time around, air will shit down within a few days because no one's going to deal with that again.

    Ladies.
    jungleroomxPreacherToxSassoriSmurphjmcdonaldForarTofystedethCommander ZoomkimejdarksunMatevElvenshaeshrykeGennenalyse RuebenAegeriCommunistCowNobeardMidniteKayne Red RobeMild ConfusionSkeithKristmas KthulhuthatassemblyguyMan in the Mistschrishallett83emp123Lord_Asmodeus
  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Khavall wrote: »
    Yeah it might cost a bit and the security I'm sure will still be a nightmare (though hey, at least the agents will get paid), but letting the SOTU go through as normal is 100% the correct move.

    The message was "No discussion of anything until the government opens". When the government opens then the SoTU can happen, and discussions can happen about the wall (Hopefully those discussions are "Hey let's not build a wall").

    If the dems go "Oh the governments open but NEENER NEENER NEENER", kiss goodbye to them ever doing or winning anything ever again. They would immediately lose face on the next shutdown, they would guarantee the next shutdown happens, they would lose votes, and they would entrench that the next 2 years is going to be flailing and kicking while real people get hurt.

    It's the worst possible idea anyone has ever come up with

    I still like scheduling it for the 16th.

    shryke wrote: »
    The Democrats aren't crazy but they are still, you know, running the US and it's foreign policy. Which is in the "you don't have a global hegemony without bombing a few eggs" wheelhouse.
    schussArdolEinzelthatassemblyguychrishallett83
  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Also the Dems ain't giving him his wall, so the longer it is before the SotU, the more he'll whine about it. Do it now before those discussions happen and he'll have less ammo.

  • jungleroomxjungleroomx And I said, hol up Registered User regular
    The SOTU is going to be hilarious.

    Make. Time.
    ThawmusDoodmannmonikerSassoriSmurphjmcdonaldMartini_PhilosopherDuke 2.0Gnome-InterruptusCantideMatevElvenshaeTNTroopernever dieJaysonFourshrykeVeagleGennenalyse RuebenAegeriStabbity StyleNobeardMidniteMild ConfusionGimKristmas KthulhuthatassemblyguyMan in the Mistschrishallett83emp123Lord_Asmodeus
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited January 25
    bowen wrote: »
    mcdermott wrote: »
    It was almost certainly air travel that ended it. The air travel network is the opposite of the internet...where one is intended to be robust against a single link failure and gracefully fall back on alternate routes, the other seems remarkably fragile and can immediately enter a cascade failure at the loss of a single major hub airport.

    When delays began today, that was the end of it. Because delays lower throughout, and there’s not a lot of excess slack nowadays to pick that throughout up elsewhere or later. The queue just builds up.

    I experienced a form of this when my Army (Guard) unit all tried to fly home for leave before our deployment. Several thousand guys bought basically *all* the seats out of a small regional airport over a couple week period. Airlines overbook on the assumption a small percentage won’t show up. Obviously all of us showed up. Day after day. Eventually the unit had to charter buses to get us to the nearest major hub, because the standby list was multiple flights deep.

    That’s exactly what will happen when a couple major hubs wind up on delays and reduced capacity for multiple days in a row. Tomorrow’s empty seats aren’t sufficient for the folks that got bumped at the end of today, and the capacity for tomorrow is reduced anyway, and the whole thing falls apart very quickly.

    I'd bet they're definitely not going to get 30+ days next time around, air will shit down within a few days because no one's going to deal with that again.

    Past experience had bred a certain level of complacency. Shutdowns were usually short, and mildly disruptive. You rarely missed a paycheck and few people actually lost any pay (just some portion of contractors). Missing two paychecks was beyond the pale.

    This time we cruised right past the second paycheck, held a sham vote and heard statements out of the white house suggesting no end was in sight out of Washington. I think it will definitely change the attitudes of workers going into the next one. Knowing that future shutdowns will probably go all the way until workers tap out? Yeah, they’ll tap out quicker next time.

    mcdermott on
    bowenBullheadMartini_PhilosopherMvrckGennenalyse RuebenNobeardKayne Red RobeMan in the Mists
  • see317see317 Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »


    PBS news correspondent so complete denial from the Trump white house.

    Zero is, technically speaking, a number. Right?

    Ringo wrote: »
    Well except what see317 said. That guy's always wrong.
    HiroconFencingsaxmonikerMartini_PhilosopherA Kobold's KoboldElvenshaeGennenalyse RuebenElldrenMr FuzzbuttMidniteMan in the Mistsemp123
  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    Also the Dems ain't giving him his wall, so the longer it is before the SotU, the more he'll whine about it. Do it now before those discussions happen and he'll have less ammo.

    I had the same thought. Hold the SOTU as soon as possible, and then during the initial greet, Pelosi should just quietly say to Trump "It'd be a shame if something happened to your wall funding due to something you say tonight..."

    Then watch the fireworks.

    PSN|AspectVoid
    MorganVGnome-InterruptusElvenshaeMatevMan in the Mistschrishallett83
  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    hahahaha oh my god.. What Pelosi said to McConnell.
    “I know he is a professional,” Pelosi said of McConnell. “So it is particularly painful to see him kowtowing to the president of the United States. And I said to him, ‘Do you just want to abolish the Congress or maybe just the United States Senate? Because that is effectively what you’re doing.’”

    Asked what McConnell said in response, Pelosi replied: “What does he ever say? Nothing.”

    This 2019 Pelosi Burn Machine cannot be stopped.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
    I ZimbraSo It GoestynicEdith_Bagot-DixPreacherHerrCronjungleroomxUndead ScottsmanChiselphaneNightslyroverride367ArtereisThe Raging PlatypusFencingsaxDevoutlyApatheticbowenjoshofalltradesmcdermottJohnny ChopsockyOghulkAresProphetjgeisCentipede DamascusRawkking GoodguyRiusToxArbitraryDescriptorMaximumKalTorakDoodmannmonikerMunkus BeaverJragghenIlpalaThawmusVishNubSassoriHiroconRickRudeBullheadMartini_PhilosopherMorganVA Kobold's KoboldLaOschrisnlAstaerethAl_watBloodsheedAthenorQuidGaddezTofystedethMvrckRMS OceanicCommander ZoomShadowfireGnome-InterruptuskimeDuke 2.0RozjdarksunSeñorAmorNo-QuarterDark Raven XZomroKnight_RedTideLocal H JayThe_InfidelEmerlmaster999DarkPrimusCantideLegacyZonugalA Dabble Of TheloniusDacGONG-00AlexandierMegaMekElvenshaeTNTrooperwazillaiTunesIsEvilSanguinius666264NiryaJoolanderTetraNitroCubaneGorkNytewarriorButtersnever dieJaysonFourFoefallerProhassshrykeMatevVeagleDhalphirFawstExtreaminatusRhesus Positivesilence1186Gennenalyse RuebenAegeriCommunistCowmageormikeschussLeeksStabbity StyleDoctorArchStempyRchanenNobeardPsychotic OneChomp-ChompBrutal JElldrenKetarrndmherobrynhrtmnAbsoluteZeroGnizmoMr FuzzbuttFoolOnTheHillMidniteMild ConfusionPenumbraLabelArdolSkeithDirtmuncherHybridKipling217EinzelDescendant XboogedybooMr RaycursedkingVahraanKristmas KthulhuthatassemblyguyKoopahTroopah38thDoeLostNinjaMan in the Mistschrishallett83abotkinmjn6172emp123Lord_Asmodeus
  • BrodyBrody The Watch The First ShoreRegistered User regular
    Have they voted yet? I see people have quit talking.

    "The shore does not dream of you." - Blind poet Gallan.
  • Just_Bri_ThanksJust_Bri_Thanks Seething with rage from a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPA regular
    No, the wall should not be used as leverage for good behavior, because it should remain clear that the wall will never happen ever.

    Some days I just want to smack people with a rolled up newspaper. Or a phone book.
    A folding chair is looking like an attractive option right now too...
    ThawmusGaddezDouglasDangerGennenalyse RuebenMan in the Mistschrishallett83
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    Also the Dems ain't giving him his wall, so the longer it is before the SotU, the more he'll whine about it. Do it now before those discussions happen and he'll have less ammo.

    Also this.

    What is the SOTU even going to be at this point? Is it just going to be another hour of him recapping Sicario? Is it going to be like that Ubisoft E3 press conference where James Cameron tried to, without any visual aids, just sort of describe what Avatar was going to be, but in the form of "Here's what's happening at the border"? Is he going to lash out and scream at the dems who are riding high on having definitely won this one?

    Like, what could it possibly be that won't be extremely embarrassing for and from Trump?

This discussion has been closed.