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US Government Shutdown 2018/2019 - read mod post on pg 23

2456794

Posts

  • cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    Selner wrote: »
    Taximes wrote: »
    From the previous thread, the Freedom Caucus is urging Trump to avoid the Emergency Powers route, probably because they're all imagining a world where a Democrat does the same thing.
    Politico wrote:
    Multiple Republicans in the conservative group have privately raised their concerns with the Trump administration, fearing it would lead to a years-long legal standoff that Democrats could win while setting a dangerous precedent for the presidency, according to more than a dozen lawmakers and GOP aides. They want Trump to hold out for a deal with Democrats, regardless of how long the partial government shutdown drags on.

    Also, according to Freedom Caucus member Justin Amash, the back pay bill that just passed is not just for this shut down, but a rules change for any and all future shutdowns.


    Justin Amash is a House Rep, member of the Freedom Caucus, and just voted that federal employees should totally not get paychecks whenever the President throws a temper tantrum.

    Wait, if they can do that, can they just pass something that says "in the event of budget disagreement, funding levels will continue an existing levels". Just do that, and this never happens again.

    Or does that fall into "binding future Congress" territory?

    There have been attempts to do this in the recent past, although they never make it out of committee. They've usually been opposed by both sides for various reasons, such as that it would remove pressure on Congress to pass an actual budget.

  • SleepSleep Registered User regular
    This bill seems like a response to the fact federal workers are starting to protest. No party should take a unified stance on it. The bill is an attempt to confuse and manipulate federal workers to go against whoever goes against this bill.

  • Evil MultifariousEvil Multifarious Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    Bogart wrote: »
    Dear America,

    Your government seems to have shutdown unexpectedly.

    Would you like to restart?

    Talk about it all here.

    I don't know if a restart will fix this. We're in reinstall territory at least.

    What if we just replace the exe?

    It was all worth it for this post.

    Inquisitor wrote: »
    I fucking hate you Canadians.
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  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    38thDoe wrote: »
    What does the judiciary shutting down mean exactly?

    No new hires, no new travel, probably furloughing all the maintenance staff and maybe assistants/secretaries, bailiffs, judges, and reporters are working without paychecks, &c. I'd imagine docket clerk's/PACER people are considered essential but no clue. I don't think this has ever happened before.

    Not sure how it would impact new civil or criminal filings.

  • TaximesTaximes Registered User regular
    Preacher wrote: »
    Democrats would never pull an emergency act to push funding for a pet project. Like even if Trump did it, that Trump did it would make the idea DOA to any one sane ever.

    Not for pet projects, but I could see a Democratic president calling a national emergency to combat climate change (you know, an actual national emergency), and that's probably just as horrific to Republicans.

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  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    The shutdown was indirectly caused by Fox News and Rush, etc.

    No one will do anything to hold them accountable for the lies.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited January 11
    It wasn't even the lies, they just said they think the president sucked for capitulating.

    Undead Scottsman on
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  • HiroconHirocon Registered User regular
    If Trump declares this a national emergency and the courts uphold his action, then the floodgates are open. Any pet issue for any president can be an emergency and the president can do anything.

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  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Ilpala wrote: »
    Huh...I'm actually kind of sympathetic to the argument he's making there.

    He does have a point that a move like this will likely make shutdowns more common.

    But it’s not the employees who should be punished if the government shuts down.

    If the government cannot pass a budget, there should be an immediate election, for legislative and executive branch

    Everyone should be up for election too

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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    Marathon wrote: »
    Ilpala wrote: »
    Huh...I'm actually kind of sympathetic to the argument he's making there.

    He does have a point that a move like this will likely make shutdowns more common.

    But it’s not the employees who should be punished if the government shuts down.

    If the government cannot pass a budget, there should be an immediate election, for legislative and executive branch

    Everyone should be up for election too

    I like this idea on a personal, visceral level. On a pragmatic level, it's a bad idea cause we're not set up logistically for it, our elections system is compromised as fuck, and I just don't trust the public to hold the right chucklefucks responsible.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    edited January 11
    Marathon wrote: »
    Ilpala wrote: »
    Huh...I'm actually kind of sympathetic to the argument he's making there.

    He does have a point that a move like this will likely make shutdowns more common.

    But it’s not the employees who should be punished if the government shuts down.

    If the government cannot pass a budget, there should be an immediate election, for legislative and executive branch

    Everyone should be up for election too

    I feel like that's ripe for backfiring. Wait until poll numbers for the opposing party are unfavorable and then hold up government until special elections occur.

    Undead Scottsman on
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  • HefflingHeffling No Pic EverRegistered User regular
    Taximes wrote: »
    From the previous thread, the Freedom Caucus is urging Trump to avoid the Emergency Powers route, probably because they're all imagining a world where a Democrat does the same thing.
    Politico wrote:
    Multiple Republicans in the conservative group have privately raised their concerns with the Trump administration, fearing it would lead to a years-long legal standoff that Democrats could win while setting a dangerous precedent for the presidency, according to more than a dozen lawmakers and GOP aides. They want Trump to hold out for a deal with Democrats, regardless of how long the partial government shutdown drags on.

    Also, according to Freedom Caucus member Justin Amash, the back pay bill that just passed is not just for this shut down, but a rules change for any and all future shutdowns.


    Justin Amash is a House Rep, member of the Freedom Caucus, and just voted that federal employees should totally not get paychecks whenever the President throws a temper tantrum.

    I mean, we can make it so that Government Shutdowns don't happen and this sort of hostage-taking showmanship can't be attempted again

    Can you do that outside of a Constitutional amendment?

    If a movement doesn't have someone that can sit down opposite those in a position of power and strike a deal, how can that movement achieve success?
  • jungleroomxjungleroomx Spicy Rudolph Registered User regular
    edited January 11
    d3tz6zfv1knm.png

    jungleroomx on
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  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    https://www.businessinsider.com/miami-airport-shuts-terminal-tsa-shortage-government-shutdown-2019-1

    Miami International is shutting down one of its concourses after 1PM this Sat/Sun/Mon due to TSA call ins.

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  • MolotovCockatooMolotovCockatoo Registered User regular
    Hirocon wrote: »
    If Trump declares this a national emergency and the courts uphold his action, then the floodgates are open. Any pet issue for any [Republican] president can be an emergency and the [Republican] president can do anything.

    FTFY. Let's be real, the courts as they stand right now are going to be very asymmetrical on how they rule this sort of issue.

    Killjoy wrote: »
    No jeez Orik why do you assume the worst about people?

    Because he moderates an internet forum

    http://lexiconmegatherium.tumblr.com/
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  • agoajagoaj Now is the time of my revengeRegistered User regular
    TSA call ins are one thing, what about air traffic control?

    qnu0EMk.png
  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Hirocon wrote: »
    If Trump declares this a national emergency and the courts uphold his action, then the floodgates are open. Any pet issue for any [Republican] president can be an emergency and the [Republican] president can do anything.

    FTFY. Let's be real, the courts as they stand right now are going to be very asymmetrical on how they rule this sort of issue.

    Emergency powers are not in the Constitution and are granted by an act from 1976.

    This can be revised or repealed. And new laws can be put in place. Just put it on the list if the Dems take back the legislative and the executive branches.

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    President Trump on Friday threw cold water on the idea of immediately declaring a national emergency to build a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border, reversing days of signals that he might soon declare the emergency amid a protracted standoff with Democrats over a partial shutdown of the federal government.

    "What we're not looking to do right now is national emergency," he said Friday afternoon, surrounded by law enforcement officials at a White House roundtable. “I’m not going to do it so fast.”

    The president has defiantly said for days he might declare a national emergency to expedite construction of the wall — and his administration has asked agencies to begin preparations.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/house-prepares-to-break-for-weekend-all-but-ensuring-longest-shutdown-in-us-history/2019/01/11/7f6e88c8-15bb-11e9-b6ad-9cfd62dbb0a8_story.html

    I can't tell if this is "Everyone told me this is a bad idea so I guess I can't do it, waaaaaah." Or if it's just meaningless bullshit like usual.

    Legacy
  • TryCatcherTryCatcher Registered User regular
    WaPo is at it again, with the best hot takes since they learned nothing since last time:



    Ethan Brown is the lead editor of The Appeal.

    Like, Christ, what they are supposed to do? Let people starve?

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  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 11
    Taximes wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Democrats would never pull an emergency act to push funding for a pet project. Like even if Trump did it, that Trump did it would make the idea DOA to any one sane ever.

    Not for pet projects, but I could see a Democratic president calling a national emergency to combat climate change (you know, an actual national emergency), and that's probably just as horrific to Republicans.

    Or gun violence

    Or Nazis and AR15s

    Or a huge whites only gun club super PAC colluding with a foreign government to install a president to make themselves and the gun indistry filthy fucking rich

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  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited January 11
    Taximes wrote: »
    Preacher wrote: »
    Democrats would never pull an emergency act to push funding for a pet project. Like even if Trump did it, that Trump did it would make the idea DOA to any one sane ever.

    Not for pet projects, but I could see a Democratic president calling a national emergency to combat climate change (you know, an actual national emergency), and that's probably just as horrific to Republicans.

    Or gun violence

    Or Nazis and AR15s

    Or a huge whites only gun club super PAC colluding with a foreign government to install a president to make themselves and the gun indistry filthy fucking rich

    Or the whole Russian/Saudi/etc collusion with the Republican party thing.

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    agoaj wrote: »
    TSA call ins are one thing, what about air traffic control?

    This is where the Executive has an additional option - order military ATCs to take over civilian operations. The problem here is that military ATCs do not do the same thing as civilian ATCs. Best case scenario - air travel slows down even more. Worst case - a military ATC puts two planes together.

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    Heffling wrote: »
    Taximes wrote: »
    From the previous thread, the Freedom Caucus is urging Trump to avoid the Emergency Powers route, probably because they're all imagining a world where a Democrat does the same thing.
    Politico wrote:
    Multiple Republicans in the conservative group have privately raised their concerns with the Trump administration, fearing it would lead to a years-long legal standoff that Democrats could win while setting a dangerous precedent for the presidency, according to more than a dozen lawmakers and GOP aides. They want Trump to hold out for a deal with Democrats, regardless of how long the partial government shutdown drags on.

    Also, according to Freedom Caucus member Justin Amash, the back pay bill that just passed is not just for this shut down, but a rules change for any and all future shutdowns.


    Justin Amash is a House Rep, member of the Freedom Caucus, and just voted that federal employees should totally not get paychecks whenever the President throws a temper tantrum.

    I mean, we can make it so that Government Shutdowns don't happen and this sort of hostage-taking showmanship can't be attempted again

    Can you do that outside of a Constitutional amendment?

    Yes...ish.

    Congress sets the budget or doesn't causing a funding gap. Congress passed the law that causes shutdowns to happen during a funding gap.

    Congress can change what happens when a budget isn't passed so gaps don't happen (such as continuing previous budget), or how funding gaps impact operation (such as returning to the Carter-era handling where operations continue while departments have money on hand so shutdowns aren't all at once)

    The -ish comes in because a future Congress can say bother that noise and undo it and plunge us into another shutdown anyway.

    Gnome-InterruptusFencingsaxLegacy
  • BizazedoBizazedo Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »

    Like, Christ, what they are supposed to do? Let people starve?
    I think you're reading into it too much. Reading that article, a natural question that arises is the funding for prisoners food and care. That sentence answers it.

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  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    WaPo is at it again, with the best hot takes since they learned nothing since last time:



    Ethan Brown is the lead editor of The Appeal.

    Like, Christ, what they are supposed to do? Let people starve?

    Clearly it is being suggested to let them out of prison until the shutdown is over. ;p

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    WaPo is at it again, with the best hot takes since they learned nothing since last time:



    Ethan Brown is the lead editor of The Appeal.

    Like, Christ, what they are supposed to do? Let people starve?

    Yeah how dare those people get food and medical care while they are wards of the state? Like jesus I know they are prisoners but they are fucking human beings too?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

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  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    "Rather than putting food back on Group A's plates, let's start starving Group B as well."

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Are there still government run orphanages/adoption agencies? We could draw some parallels with them since they would also be wards of the state.

    Ladies.
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Are there still government run orphanages/adoption agencies? We could draw some parallels with them since they would also be wards of the state.

    I don't think on the Federal level.

    Unless you count all those at the southern border.

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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    agoaj wrote: »
    TSA call ins are one thing, what about air traffic control?

    They'll start calling out eventually too. The TSA are the first who are going to disappear because they're among the lowest paid federal employees being forced to work.

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Are there still government run orphanages/adoption agencies? We could draw some parallels with them since they would also be wards of the state.

    I don't think on the Federal level.

    Unless you count all those at the southern border.

    looks like they gave them a new name under the umbrella of group homes

    But still all those people should be getting food, shelter, and medical care. And the ones at the border too.

    Ladies.
    Preacher
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Are there still government run orphanages/adoption agencies? We could draw some parallels with them since they would also be wards of the state.

    HUD isn't paying rent so people who are paying their portion are going to start getting evicted.

    PreacherbowenFencingsax
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    WaPo is at it again, with the best hot takes since they learned nothing since last time:



    Ethan Brown is the lead editor of The Appeal.

    Like, Christ, what they are supposed to do? Let people starve?

    I feel safe in saying that for about 20% of America, that answer is "If the guards aren't being paid, yes."

    Personally, after the children separation at the border, I kinda want updates of "the Trump administration has not used this as an excuse to commit human rights abuses on the Federal Prison population... yet."

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  • PreacherPreacher Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    Are there still government run orphanages/adoption agencies? We could draw some parallels with them since they would also be wards of the state.

    I don't think on the Federal level.

    Unless you count all those at the southern border.

    looks like they gave them a new name under the umbrella of group homes

    But still all those people should be getting food, shelter, and medical care. And the ones at the border too.

    It's crazy that we are now politicizing "Should we feed and care for prisoners". Like holy shit what the fuck has happend?

    I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.

    Http:// pleasepaypreacher.net
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  • PaladinPaladin Registered User regular
    A more cunning journalist would have masked that editorializing with a vague source

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  • MeeqeMeeqe Lord of the pants most fancy Someplace amazingRegistered User regular
    This is what collapsing central government looks like.

    I like children. Provided they go home with their parents at the end of the day.
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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    TryCatcher wrote: »
    WaPo is at it again, with the best hot takes since they learned nothing since last time:



    Ethan Brown is the lead editor of The Appeal.

    Like, Christ, what they are supposed to do? Let people starve?

    It's the Republican Party.

    They would.

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  • HenroidHenroid Radio Demon Internet HellRegistered User regular
    Hey remember that GoFundMe that was raising money for Trump's wall? It's being refunded. Via the Hill.

    Centrism is just the cowardly way to be a bigot w/o being explicit about it.
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  • R-demR-dem Registered User regular
    edited January 11
    Someone in the previous thread mentioned Utah's senators and was wondering how they were reacting to the shutdown, given that Utah is very Republican but also not a huge fan of Trump.

    Well, the answer is that they're busy trying to make sure that rural Utahans get to continue fucking over monuments and parks because, clearly, that's more important than funding the park rangers that would protect...

    Ohhhhhh now I get it you crafty bastards /sarcasm

    Edit: I should also mention that one of the few blue areas in Utah is home to an IRS center that is very important to the local economy, so there technically *should* be a lot of pressure on them to work to end the shutdown.....but nah gotta make sure people can use Pueblo/Fremont/Ute rock art for target practice!

    R-dem on
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  • MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    White House economic adviser appears to compare shutdown to 'vacation' for furloughed workers

    But what about those working without pay? Or the contractors who won't get paid? Great vacation there, Kevin.

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This discussion has been closed.