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The [Marvel] Thread: Now in WandaVision!

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Posts

  • MolotovCockatooMolotovCockatoo Registered User regular
    Okay, but which X-Man vapes?

    Quentin Quire?

    Killjoy wrote: »
    No jeez Orik why do you assume the worst about people?

    Because he moderates an internet forum

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    It's not a moral victory, it's a counter-advertising campaign to fix the damage done by literal decades of tobacco-lobby-backed pro-smoking imagery. "Wolverine should not be emulated" doesn't actually translate to kids not emulating him because he's fuckin' cool and kids will gladly do things that are bad for them if they think it makes them look cool.

    Smoking basically shouldn't exist and I'm perfectly fine with media representing that ideal reality.

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  • DepressperadoDepressperado I just wanted to see you laughing in the pizza rainRegistered User regular
    Morleys

  • MaximumMaximum Registered User regular
    Okay, but which X-Man vapes?

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  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Okay, but which X-Man vapes?

    Quentin Quire?

    Quentin uses his psychic abilities to enhance his vape tricks

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    never die wrote: »
    To be fair, his body don’t care.

    Second-hand smoke is still a thing.
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Wolverine is pretty explicitly a character that you should not be emulating

    Which is why Marvel put in him charge of a school full of impressionable young children. :)

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  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Wolverine is pretty explicitly a character that you should not be emulating

    Like, he's not being presented as the heroic standard while he's got a camel dangling from his lips or nothin'

    Side note: do we know what brand Logan smokes?

    Wolverine is absolutely presented as a heroic standard

    He is The Cool Good Guy

    hes the coolest good guy

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  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Like, I understand where you guys are coming from

    But fucking EVERYONE wants to be wolverine

    Every single kid has put three knives between their fingers and pretended to be wolverine

    maybe one of the characters that literally everyone wants to be shouldn't be exibiting an easily emulatable habit that kills you

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    Like, I understand where you guys are coming from

    But fucking EVERYONE wants to be wolverine

    Every single kid has put three knives between their fingers and pretended to be wolverine

    maybe one of the characters that literally everyone wants to be shouldn't be exibiting an easily emulatable habit that kills you

    My boyfriend can attest I do this with french fries to this day.

    9m1sgpgi7202.gif
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  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Like guys

    Wolverine is an avenger and he is the coolest and one of the biggest heroes and children love him

    He is NOT john constantine

    That is a bad comparison

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  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    I guess I'll ask: why is it not permissible to have Logan smoking a cigar but have him always drinking?

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Let Logan get heavy into weed edibles.

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  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    Okay, but which X-Man vapes?

    Shatterstar

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  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    edited February 11
    My argument is that instead of not presenting Logan as smoking, they should stop presenting him as a heroic standard

    Make Logan look more like John Constantine instead of getting rid of one of his many bad habits (and ignoring/tacitly approving the rest)

    Straightzi on
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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    Zonugal wrote: »
    I guess I'll ask: why is it not permissible to have Logan smoking a cigar but have him always drinking?

    Honestly him binge drinking isn't great either for similar reasons. But unlike smoking, drinking can be fine in moderation if done responsibly.

    9m1sgpgi7202.gif
  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    I think more DC characters vape as a general rule

    Jason Todd absolutely vapes, for instance

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    I think more DC characters vape as a general rule

    Jason Todd absolutely vapes, for instance

    Vaping feels very in-line with DC's whole tech oeuvre, honestly.

    9m1sgpgi7202.gif
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  • BlankzillaBlankzilla KOOKABUNGA LIVES Registered User regular
    I can't argue that Logan isn't an incredibly popular, beloved character

    But also literally every piece of popular X-Men media goes out of its way to show how much being Wolverine fucking sucks

    You get claws and can't die, sure, but you have no memories, everyone you love dies, you're in constant pain and can't wash the blood off your hands no matter how hard you try

    And that's just the movie version

    That doesn't change the fact that folks still think he is cool, but at that point it is because they are actively ignoring huge chunks of his story and the media itself shouldn't be held accountable for that

    All Along The Watchtower: A DCAU Podcast.

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  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    I believe alcohol is a proven carcinogen when taken in any quantity and all other intel on the matter is industry propaganda

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  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I can't argue that Logan isn't an incredibly popular, beloved character

    But also literally every piece of popular X-Men media goes out of its way to show how much being Wolverine fucking sucks

    You get claws and can't die, sure, but you have no memories, everyone you love dies, you're in constant pain and can't wash the blood off your hands no matter how hard you try

    And that's just the movie version

    That doesn't change the fact that folks still think he is cool, but at that point it is because they are actively ignoring huge chunks of his story and the media itself shouldn't be held accountable for that

    disagree

    this is that whole eric cartman argument again

    its still south parks fault if people quote his hateful shit at people even though the show says hes bad

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    instead of Wolverines smoking habit disappearing it might have been better someone had to talk him in to stopping when he started the school. Like no the cigars arnt hurting you Logan but youre gonna be around kids all the time and people have started looking up to you.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    instead of Wolverines smoking habit disappearing it might have been better someone had to talk him in to stopping when he started the school. Like no the cigars arnt hurting you Logan but youre gonna be around kids all the time and people have started looking up to you.

    That is literally th in universe reason for why he stopped smoking.

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  • BlankzillaBlankzilla KOOKABUNGA LIVES Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I can't argue that Logan isn't an incredibly popular, beloved character

    But also literally every piece of popular X-Men media goes out of its way to show how much being Wolverine fucking sucks

    You get claws and can't die, sure, but you have no memories, everyone you love dies, you're in constant pain and can't wash the blood off your hands no matter how hard you try

    And that's just the movie version

    That doesn't change the fact that folks still think he is cool, but at that point it is because they are actively ignoring huge chunks of his story and the media itself shouldn't be held accountable for that

    disagree

    this is that whole eric cartman argument again

    its still south parks fault if people quote his hateful shit at people even though the show says hes bad
    I would say there is a pretty huge difference between a character being a horrible racist, homophobic goblin in a show that is literally all about horrible offensive shit versus Wolverine having a consistently traumatic, painful life that colors every part of his existence and prevents him from being truly happy

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    instead of Wolverines smoking habit disappearing it might have been better someone had to talk him in to stopping when he started the school. Like no the cigars arnt hurting you Logan but youre gonna be around kids all the time and people have started looking up to you.

    That is literally th in universe reason for why he stopped smoking.

    I was not aware there was a reason! Nevermind then.

    Quire.jpg
  • Forever ZefiroForever Zefiro Jack is back Time to let 'er ripRegistered User regular
    instead of Wolverines smoking habit disappearing it might have been better someone had to talk him in to stopping when he started the school. Like no the cigars arnt hurting you Logan but youre gonna be around kids all the time and people have started looking up to you.

    That is literally th in universe reason for why he stopped smoking.

    Then I don't see what the problem is

    I don't see why it's so bad that an incredibly popular and loved character by all ages stopped smoking, especially if it's presented for that reason

    I mean, is it such an important character trait that Wolverine is lesser as a character for not smoking? Was it just not handled well?

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  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    edited February 11
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I can't argue that Logan isn't an incredibly popular, beloved character

    But also literally every piece of popular X-Men media goes out of its way to show how much being Wolverine fucking sucks

    You get claws and can't die, sure, but you have no memories, everyone you love dies, you're in constant pain and can't wash the blood off your hands no matter how hard you try

    And that's just the movie version

    That doesn't change the fact that folks still think he is cool, but at that point it is because they are actively ignoring huge chunks of his story and the media itself shouldn't be held accountable for that

    disagree

    this is that whole eric cartman argument again

    its still south parks fault if people quote his hateful shit at people even though the show says hes bad
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I can't argue that Logan isn't an incredibly popular, beloved character

    But also literally every piece of popular X-Men media goes out of its way to show how much being Wolverine fucking sucks

    You get claws and can't die, sure, but you have no memories, everyone you love dies, you're in constant pain and can't wash the blood off your hands no matter how hard you try

    And that's just the movie version

    That doesn't change the fact that folks still think he is cool, but at that point it is because they are actively ignoring huge chunks of his story and the media itself shouldn't be held accountable for that

    disagree

    this is that whole eric cartman argument again

    its still south parks fault if people quote his hateful shit at people even though the show says hes bad
    I would say there is a pretty huge difference between a character being a horrible racist, homophobic goblin in a show that is literally all about horrible offensive shit versus Wolverine having a consistently traumatic, painful life that colors every part of his existence and prevents him from being truly happy

    Not in terms of emulation

    Wolverine is cool, so people want to be like him

    It doesn't matter that the text of the films is that he's lonely. People still want to be him, because he's extremely appealing

    Like, its still a power fantasy. Wolverine hurts, but he cant actually BE hurt and he solves all of his problems by being a super cool badass who stabs bad people to death

    Unless you completely change everything about the character until people pity wolverine instead of wanting to be him, people are still gonna want to act like him, including smoking

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  • BlankzillaBlankzilla KOOKABUNGA LIVES Registered User regular
    instead of Wolverines smoking habit disappearing it might have been better someone had to talk him in to stopping when he started the school. Like no the cigars arnt hurting you Logan but youre gonna be around kids all the time and people have started looking up to you.

    That is literally th in universe reason for why he stopped smoking.

    Then I don't see what the problem is

    I don't see why it's so bad that an incredibly popular and loved character by all ages stopped smoking, especially if it's presented for that reason

    I mean, is it such an important character trait that Wolverine is lesser as a character for not smoking? Was it just not handled well?
    I do not remember there being a reason given at all?

    I remember when the decision was made there was a scene where Aunt May threw his cigar in a drink but nothing else

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  • Kayne Red RobeKayne Red Robe Master of Magic ArcanusRegistered User regular
    edited February 11
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Okay, but which X-Man vapes?

    Quentin Quire?

    Quentin uses his psychic abilities to enhance his vape tricks

    I almost put "other than Quentin Quire" in the original post because that fruit was so low hanging

    Kayne Red Robe on
  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    Man I'm sorry I pointed out the smoke shop sign

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  • OmnipotentBagelOmnipotentBagel Shell, Teeth, Eyes, Flame, Claws, Breath, Scales, FUN!Registered User regular
    I'm just baffled as to why Wolverine being able to smoke is such an important aspect of his character that it's worth drafting a bunch of arguments against a fairly well-proven anti-smoking campaign strategy.

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    I'm just baffled as to why Wolverine being able to smoke is such an important aspect of his character that it's worth drafting a bunch of arguments against a fairly well-proven anti-smoking campaign strategy.

    There are stories where you could argue that it’s important to show Logan’s disdain for living and his desire to just die.

    Like in Logan!

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  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    Honestly, even if there wasn't the moral implication, Wolverine is supposed to be cool and smoking ain't cool anymore. My parents were heavy smokers for decades and even they quit over a decade ago.

  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    I remember some sort of article to the effect that while smoking advertising is basically dead the occurrence of diegetic smoking in media is way up and man as someone who flirts with stopping smoking there is a lot of fuckin delicious sensual smoking getting done in media, like I was watching True Detective and Mahershala Ali lit a smoke and cupped it just so and had a toke and leaned back in his chair real slow like he was gettin sucked off it was wild god I want a cigarette

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  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    Blankzilla wrote: »
    I can't argue that Logan isn't an incredibly popular, beloved character

    But also literally every piece of popular X-Men media goes out of its way to show how much being Wolverine fucking sucks

    You get claws and can't die, sure, but you have no memories, everyone you love dies, you're in constant pain and can't wash the blood off your hands no matter how hard you try

    And that's just the movie version

    That doesn't change the fact that folks still think he is cool, but at that point it is because they are actively ignoring huge chunks of his story and the media itself shouldn't be held accountable for that

    disagree

    this is that whole eric cartman argument again

    its still south parks fault if people quote his hateful shit at people even though the show says hes bad
    I would say there is a pretty huge difference between a character being a horrible racist, homophobic goblin in a show that is literally all about horrible offensive shit versus Wolverine having a consistently traumatic, painful life that colors every part of his existence and prevents him from being truly happy
    I agree that Wolverine has had a rough life and that his physical, mental, and emotional state is not one that people would want to be in - but I think that recognizing this last bit takes a certain degree of emotional and intellectual maturity, life experience, and introspection that the younger kids might simply not have access to. To me age 34, Wolverine is someone who sees loved ones die by droves, forgets people who were important to him, and so on. To me age 12, he was a bomb-ass action hero who could never get sick (relevant to me as I can catch a cold in a hermetically-sealed room) and never had to hold back when fighting evil because he'd never truly get hurt.

    I never thought "Oh man, let's fukken light up because Wolverine does it", but I've had the firm idea that smoking is bad since I was pretty young; I have certainly emulated fictional characters in other respects when I was younger, though.

  • ChincymcchillaChincymcchilla Registered User regular
    I'm just baffled as to why Wolverine being able to smoke is such an important aspect of his character that it's worth drafting a bunch of arguments against a fairly well-proven anti-smoking campaign strategy.

    There are stories where you could argue that it’s important to show Logan’s disdain for living and his desire to just die.

    Like in Logan!

    i mean then have him shoot heroin

    there are a million ways to portray that that both make being Logan less desirable and also arent as easily emulatable by most kids

    I kind of cant believe people are arguing this hard that an avenger needs to smoke

    do yall not remember how bad it was when James Bond smoked? How many kids picked it up to look cool?

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    I'm just baffled as to why Wolverine being able to smoke is such an important aspect of his character that it's worth drafting a bunch of arguments against a fairly well-proven anti-smoking campaign strategy.

    There are stories where you could argue that it’s important to show Logan’s disdain for living and his desire to just die.

    Like in Logan!

    You can do that without hin smoking.

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  • Mr. GMr. G Registered User regular
    I knew my entire life that smoking was bad and I always maintained (and sorta still do) that it does look cool though

    so it's probably just best to not show it

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  • Munkus BeaverMunkus Beaver Registered User, ClubPA regular
    You are never gonna say”oh man, light up because Wolverine does it”

    It’s more the culmination of a certain image that you are repeatedly peppered with that hey, this is actually cool. You wanna be cool, right?

    It’s the same reason why Coke and Pepsi still advertise in specific ways. So you associate their brand with certain things,not because they need to remind you to drink Coke.

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  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Like, I understand where you guys are coming from

    But fucking EVERYONE wants to be wolverine

    Every single kid has put three knives between their fingers and pretended to be wolverine

    maybe one of the characters that literally everyone wants to be shouldn't be exibiting an easily emulatable habit that kills you

    My boyfriend can attest I do this with french fries to this day.
    Bagel.

    Please.

    This is important.

    Do not try to retract the fries back into your hand.

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  • HobnailHobnail Registered User regular
    You know that's a good point why doesn't Wolverine just fuckin shoot bad brown heroin all the time, an invincible man not shooting heroin is kind of an insult in a way

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