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You're [History], Like A Beat Up Car

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Posts

  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    The only thing Duncan has put out I didn't like was the American Revolution series. Super boring.

    In fairness to him, it's because it's a boring revolution. There's some exciting things in the beginning and the end, but the middle is all battles all the time which is boring. The exciting things are the politics and the people, not battles.

    (The Mexican Revolution has been a lot more interesting. Probably because there are many more parties involved in the fighting and it's not non-stop battles for god knows how many episodes.)

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    He did a fantastic job describing the initial slave revolt that begun the Hatian revolution. Still get chills about it.

    Kaputa
  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Merriam-Webster is a dictionary. Today the dictionary has a history lesson



    The tl;dr: the word "villain" comes from a word meaning "villager." Upper class people looked down on the villagers as uncouth, started equating having lower-class manners with having lower morals, and thus turned the word into a synonym for scoundrels and criminals.
    Research on whether such villeins twirled their mustaches has so far proved inconclusive.

    GvzbgulkimePolaritie
  • Casual EddyCasual Eddy Don't despair. Not even over the fact that you don't despair.Registered User regular
    I was reading a book on medieval villages and one of the classes of peasants was called the villein! I was wondering why it was so close to villian

    Elki wrote: »

    Casual Eddy: best poster 2014.
    tyrannus wrote: »
    Casual Eddy: best poster of 2015

    gotta update that stuff man
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Remember, the ville suffix means town.

    torchlight-sig-80.jpg
    ElvenshaeBlackDragon480chrishallett83
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited March 8
    Ironically the word village comes from the Latin Villa, which was a large Roman luxury country farming estate, which would often have a village of small houses for farm workers and servants attached to it.

    Jealous Deva on
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Ironically the word village comes from the Latin Villa, which was a large Roman luxury country farming estate, which would often have a village of small houses for farm workers and servants attached to it.

    It's not so strange considering that the intermediary etymological word is villaticus, ie "that which is related to a villa". Ie, villaticus refers only to the slave/servant buildings that were in close proximity to a villa.
    In old french they had two words for village. Village, for any small community that were directly under the rule of a local lord, and the "haim/hamel" where they weren't.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    Fencingsax
  • SealSeal Registered User regular


    B R E A D

    ElvenshaeBlackDragon480
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Otherwise known, quite accurately, as "sheet iron" and "tooth dullers", plus a lot of other names involving broken teeth and inedible food.

    I made some hard tack just for grins to see if it was something I could take camping. It did not make it to camping, but it did get a grin when I found out how hilariously tough this stuff is. Seriously, it's basically inedible without a long soak in something first unless you're looking for a way to just shatter all the teeth right out of your head, cartoon-style. It's basically just brick flour; chuck one of those bad boys at somebody and you could very possibly knock them right out.

    ElvenshaeSmrtnikkimeL Ron HowardSealRchanenTynnanSkeithNitsuaLoisLaneForar
  • Rhesus PositiveRhesus Positive GNU Terry Pratchett Registered User regular
    Ironically the word village comes from the Latin Villa, which was a large Roman luxury country farming estate, which would often have a village of small houses for farm workers and servants attached to it.

    It's not so strange considering that the intermediary etymological word is villaticus, ie "that which is related to a villa". Ie, villaticus refers only to the slave/servant buildings that were in close proximity to a villa.
    In old french they had two words for village. Village, for any small community that were directly under the rule of a local lord, and the "haim/hamel" where they weren't.

    Ooo, I guess that’s where the English term “hamlet” comes from

    Elvenshae
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Ironically the word village comes from the Latin Villa, which was a large Roman luxury country farming estate, which would often have a village of small houses for farm workers and servants attached to it.

    It's not so strange considering that the intermediary etymological word is villaticus, ie "that which is related to a villa". Ie, villaticus refers only to the slave/servant buildings that were in close proximity to a villa.
    In old french they had two words for village. Village, for any small community that were directly under the rule of a local lord, and the "haim/hamel" where they weren't.

    Ooo, I guess that’s where the English term “hamlet” comes from

    Yep. It's the english form of "Hamelet", which in turn in a diminuitive form of Hamel. So so basicly means "little village".

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    FencingsaxElvenshae
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    Otherwise known, quite accurately, as "sheet iron" and "tooth dullers", plus a lot of other names involving broken teeth and inedible food.

    I made some hard tack just for grins to see if it was something I could take camping. It did not make it to camping, but it did get a grin when I found out how hilariously tough this stuff is. Seriously, it's basically inedible without a long soak in something first unless you're looking for a way to just shatter all the teeth right out of your head, cartoon-style. It's basically just brick flour; chuck one of those bad boys at somebody and you could very possibly knock them right out.

    How to eat hardtack: Soak in a bucket of water for at least 24 hours. Then eat the bucket.
    This is actually how to eat dwarf bread in Terry Pratchett's Discworld series. (Dwarf bread doubles as a weapon. Never mess with a Dwarf armed with war scones.)

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
    Rhesus Positivechrishallett83honovereElvenshaeSmrtnikDoodmannTynnanNobeardLoisLane
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited March 15
    Otherwise known, quite accurately, as "sheet iron" and "tooth dullers", plus a lot of other names involving broken teeth and inedible food.

    I made some hard tack just for grins to see if it was something I could take camping. It did not make it to camping, but it did get a grin when I found out how hilariously tough this stuff is. Seriously, it's basically inedible without a long soak in something first unless you're looking for a way to just shatter all the teeth right out of your head, cartoon-style. It's basically just brick flour; chuck one of those bad boys at somebody and you could very possibly knock them right out.

    Yeah, you can tell just watching that recipe. It's flour, salt and water and that's it. Just kneaded till smooth, shaped into a little round and baked till you've removed all the moisture. It's like a slab of pure gluten.

    shryke on
    Elvenshae
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    You can practicly hear Herodotus going "I was right bitches, you doubted me, but I was right"
    Extremely well-preserved egyptian shipwreck found, and it's exactly what herodotus described

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    Rhesus PositiveKayne Red RobeElvenshaeMetzger MeisterfurlionL Ron HowardBlackDragon480tynicDouglasDangerSolarFencingsaxkimeKruiteAimVegemyteBloodySlothchrishallett83PolaritielonelyahavaRMS OceanicAridholMvrckSkeithNitsuaNobeardForareddizhereMoridin889MrMister
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    edited March 26
    I didn't know if I should post this in Bad News Gone Right or this one.
    Article from "Jämtlandsposten" in 1886.
    w2OHjND.png
    The article is retelling a story found in the protocol of Åkerby church during the 17th century where a parish priest finds himself in front of the cathedral chapter after having laughed loudly while delivering a sermon from the pulpit (a behavior that was found rather inappropriate of his profession and the sanctity of the act). The priest defended himself by retelling the circumstances. A billy-goat had been solemly walking up the church ile and noticed a woman slumbering deeply due to the summer heat . Perceiving her nodding head as a challenge the goat had headbutted her so that "her legs for a moment sought the sky". The priest had found this so comical that he, despite the churchs sanctity, could not hold back his laughter. The chapter found his reason satisfactory and absolved him of wrongdoing.

    Fiendishrabbit on
    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    ToxFencingsaxBlackDragon480DisruptedCapitalistkimeCaptain InertiaL Ron HowardshrykeKruiteRhesus PositiveNeveronKayne Red Robechrishallett83MonwynPolaritielonelyahavaCouscoushonovereElvenshaeLindvalhalla130Duke 2.0MvrckHefflingSkeithHappylilElfNitsuaNobeardLoisLaneForarXaquinThe SauceMoridin889EncMrMisterVerminion
  • MuzzmuzzMuzzmuzz Registered User regular
    I’ve been listening to a podcast of the History of England and the latest one is about the trial and burning of Archibishop of Canterbury, Thomas Cranmer by Queen Mary.

    I’m still trying to figure out why, after the guy had recanted (due to phycogical pressure over the span of years), Queen Mary insisted he still had to burn. (Generally recantation equaled prison sentences) And whos daft idea it was to allow the condemned man to preach his recantation just before the campfire.

    I wish I could be there at the moment the ex arch bishop went off script and re-recanted his faith.

    And while I wouldn’t have liked to been there, the fact he shoved his hand (that signed his recantation) into the fire and screaming at it is badass.

  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    I’ve been listening to a podcast of the History of England and the latest one is about the trial and burning of Archibishop of Canterbury, Thomas Cranmer by Queen Mary.

    I’m still trying to figure out why, after the guy had recanted (due to phycogical pressure over the span of years), Queen Mary insisted he still had to burn. (Generally recantation equaled prison sentences) And whos daft idea it was to allow the condemned man to preach his recantation just before the campfire.

    I wish I could be there at the moment the ex arch bishop went off script and re-recanted his faith.

    And while I wouldn’t have liked to been there, the fact he shoved his hand (that signed his recantation) into the fire and screaming at it is badass.

    Because Queen Mary viewed him as a political enemy, and there are very few ways of removing an archbishop except "Burn the heretic!". On the other hand, beating the shit out of an Archbishop, even a dethroned archbishop, to make him shut up is not the sort of thing you do before a mob of people. It was simply a massive miscalculation to have his execution in public, but sometimes kings and queens are so used to being surrounded by yes-men that they simply can't realize that someone might not do as they wish, and Queen Mary wasn't the most politicly astute.

    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
    tynicDouglasDangerSolarBlackDragon480RchanenSmrtnikchrishallett83lonelyahavaCouscousvalhalla130Duke 2.0LoisLane
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Muzzmuzz wrote: »
    I’ve been listening to a podcast of the History of England and the latest one is about the trial and burning of Archibishop of Canterbury, Thomas Cranmer by Queen Mary.

    I’m still trying to figure out why, after the guy had recanted (due to phycogical pressure over the span of years), Queen Mary insisted he still had to burn. (Generally recantation equaled prison sentences) And whos daft idea it was to allow the condemned man to preach his recantation just before the campfire.

    I wish I could be there at the moment the ex arch bishop went off script and re-recanted his faith.

    And while I wouldn’t have liked to been there, the fact he shoved his hand (that signed his recantation) into the fire and screaming at it is badass.

    Because Queen Mary viewed him as a political enemy, and there are very few ways of removing an archbishop except "Burn the heretic!". On the other hand, beating the shit out of an Archbishop, even a dethroned archbishop, to make him shut up is not the sort of thing you do before a mob of people. It was simply a massive miscalculation to have his execution in public, but sometimes kings and queens are so used to being surrounded by yes-men that they simply can't realize that someone might not do as they wish, and Queen Mary wasn't the most politicly astute.

    Mary Tudor is a great example of wasted royal potential. All the Tudors were rather intelligent, Mary included, but Henry VIII was so adamant about getting his male heir that he never allowed her to receive a humanist education or let Catherine of Aragon groom her for rule (Catherine learned from the best, her mom Isabella of Castile), so she took solace in the only thing she could actually claim for herself, her faith. Then being disowned after the birth of Liz and the break with Rome, watching her sickly half-brother (from a 3rd marriage) become king and allow his regency council to push an aggressive protestant agenda.

    One can easily understand her emotional state after finally living long enough to rule and wanting to settle scores, but she lacked patience and subtlety. She couldn't read a room to save her life and she thought that her mother's popularity among the lower orders and court would be transferred to her without question or reciprocation on her part and that England was desperate to return to the one true Catholic faith.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    edited March 27
    I wonder if England has the record for "most Archbishops killed/murdered for disagreeing with the ruling government"
    Because between Beckett, Cranmer and Laud...that's quite a list.

    Fiendishrabbit on
    "The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
    -Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    I wonder if England has the record for "most Archbishops killed/murdered for disagreeing with the ruling government"
    Because between Beckett, Cranmer and Laud...that's quite a list.

    While not a Bishop or Archbishop, you can throw William Tyndale on that list, since Henry VIII hung him out to dry in Brabant/low countries after he bad mouthed Hank annulling his own marriage.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
  • KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    edited March 27
    A lot of the Protestant movements kind of show up short in humanist manner by basically just transferring power from religious figures to noblemen.

    Although I’m not really a Catholic apologist I just the transfer to be between equally bad folks between the aristocracy and theocracy. It doesn’t help that things such as the Spanish Inquisition, the Dutch Inquisition, and stuff like witch burnings were often spurred on by secular rulers to the point the Spanish Inquisition was more the Reyes Catolico’s than the pope’s.

    Kadoken on
    I am going to shoot this mystery with my pistol of deduction -Sherlock Holmes (Scott Benson)
    Mine TTRPG blog http://darkheresychainsofmalice.blogspot.com/
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited March 27
    For every Protestant movement supporting transfer of power to nobles or secular government there was one supporting rule by peasantry, and these were often at war with each other as much as Catholicism.

    The problem with the populist movements were that they tended to be radical out of necessity, and tended to flame out under charismatic leaders (or in some cases those leaders sold out and were themselves integrated into the existing power structures).

    Jealous Deva on
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Watching Notre Dame Cathedral burn this afternoon has been very sobering. Puts me in mind to watch Kenneth Clark's CIVILISATION series from the BBC in 1969. Findable on Youtube--

  • KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited April 15
    He did a fantastic job describing the initial slave revolt that begun the Hatian revolution. Still get chills about it.
    I agree, I loved his Haitian Revolution series.

    I can't bring myself to listen to an American Revolution podcast. I got the standard nationalist indoctrination throughout school and later read Zinn's take on it, which helped balance things out, and by now the US's constant cultural bombardment of patriotic fervor has unfortunately burned me out on the subject.

    Kaputa on
  • FANTOMASFANTOMAS Flan ArgentavisRegistered User regular
    You know how as a kid school usually MAKES you read some really old book, in my case it was two of them, and they were both fantastic "Martin Fierro" (arg.) and "Cantar de mio Cid"(spain), they are both incredibly musical, Martin Fierro has a bunch of "payadas", wich were like rap battles, and Cantar de mio Cid translates to "The song of my Cid", its one huge poem based on the real life events of Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, also known as "El Cid Campeador". Wich is a really cool title, its a spanish-moor mix that means "The battle master Lord". The Campeador title, he supposedly earned it by defeating an Aragonese knight in single combat at a very young age.

    Rodrigo(born between 1041 and 1047) fought everyone, he started fighting moors where he made a name for himself, then he continued to fight against his Lord´s brothers (christians), who were political enemies, then his lord dies and he is employed by one of the brothers he fought, but that didnt work out and he was exiled.

    So he was employed by the moors to fight other moors, and eventually to fight against christians and any combination of army you can imagine, it was a wild time. Then the Almoravides came to the peninsula from north africa, and they were REALLY strict muslims, so Rodrigo had to bail, and the Spanish King was like GOTCHA!, he was running low on warlords and didnt pass on the oportunity of getting El Cid back on the christian side.

    So he fought every possible combination of foes for both sides of the Spanish Reconquista, what he had left was fighting for himself, so he stablishes a municipalty where both moors and christians can coexist in a pluralistic society, and he fights against invaders untill the day he dies in a siege.

    Everything about El Cid, the real person, seems to be as epic as the one in the poems, even his horse Babieca had stories about where it came from, Rodrigo had a moorish crafted blade made of Damascus Steel, and in a movie about him, his wife was portrayed by academy award winner Sophia Loren(eyebrow wiggle emoji). And "Cantar de mio Cid" is an incredible epic, highly recomended book (best read in old spanish)

    Theres too much stuff about El Cid, the historical person, the character of the epic, the folk hero tales, there is no way I can even scratch the surface or consider different versions on a single post, but I felt this was a super exciting historical figure that doesnt get as much attention as it deserves, so even if its a sloppy post, I decided to put out there anyway.

    lonelyahavaSmrtnikDavid WalgasFencingsaxSkeith
  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    So some time before, I had written about James Longstreet, the Confederate general who, after the war, realized that the Confederacy, slavery, and the war to protect them was wrong, and then dedicated the rest of his life to righting the wrongs he had fought for before. Longstreet has been mostly written out of the history books and general discourse since the Lost Cause-ers saw him as a traitor, but his name is still around and remembered. Yesterday, I learned about a similar man, another Confederate general who also realized that he had fought for the wrong side and spent the post-war years trying to rectify the wrongs of the past, but one who was successfully erased from the general memory of history. His name was William Mahone.

    William_Mahone.jpg

    Mahone was a Virginian, and maybe this was why he was erased so effectively and ruthlessly. Virginians were supposed to stay loyal to their state first, like their sainted Lee, and not choose country over state like George Thomas or repudiate it afterward, like Mahone. Mahone had been a slaveowner and proponent of secession, and had been the victorious commander at the Battle of the Crater. After the war, he worked on the railroads, trying to repair the wrecked lines, and at some point during these years, had a major change of heart.

    In the late 1870s, Mahone became the head of the Readjuster Party. It was a progressive coalition of poor whites and freed blacks in Virginia, with aims "to break the power of wealth and established privilege." The planter classes had started the war to maintain their control of southern society, and they still maintained it after the war, using racism as their tool both times. Mahone clearly understood this and wanted to tear them down so the rest of society could be brought up. The main aims of the Readjuster Party were to manage Virginia's debts (because a lot of those debts had been incurred for infrastructure projects like railroads and canals...which had been wrecked in the war), promote education for everyone, and push general reforms. They abolished the poll tax and public whipping post, founded what would become Virginia State University (an HBCU), increased funding for other colleges, built schools for both black and white students, and even lead to the creation of an integrated police force.

    The Readjusters were successful for some years, with a Readjuster elected Governor and Mahone elected to a term in the Senate, where he caucused with the Republicans.

    Unfortunately, the planter class elites were able to seize power again in the state. Senators were chosen by state legislatures at the time, and as the old elites regained their control, they elected someone else to the Senate. Mahone died a few years later, and the Readjuster Party was taken apart. As soon as it was gone, Jim Crow was instated. Mahone had fought the good fight for nearly twenty years though, delaying the inevitable, and for that, he was erased, an unofficial damnatio memoriae for daring to promote racial equality and defy the powers that used racism for their ends.


    If people really want a Confederate statue somewhere, Mahone would be a good replacement for the mass-produced Lees and Forrests. Most people haven't heard the full, real, and true history of the war, after all, which included people like Mahone and Longstreet who realized the Confederacy had been in the wrong.

    RMS OceanicL Ron HowardElvenshaekimeshrykelonelyahavaRichyfurlionRchanenKadokenMvrckSleepIncenjucarHefflingSkeithTynnanchrishallett83NitsuaFlying CouchThe SauceMoridin889Enc
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Someone loyal to his state, who could see where it strayed and wanted to right the course.

    Mayabirddestroyah87ElvenshaefurlionBlackDragon480TicaldfjamNitsuaMoridin889
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited May 2
    Longstreet has been mostly written out of the history books and general discourse since the Lost Cause-ers saw him as a traitor, but his name is still around and remembered.

    Um, what ? Longstreet was one of the Confederacy's longest-serving senior generals. He has a significant presence in every history of the Civil War that I know of, as well as any number of battle histories.

    Fairchild on
  • VeeveeVeevee WisconsinRegistered User regular
    edited May 2
    Fairchild wrote: »
    Longstreet has been mostly written out of the history books and general discourse since the Lost Cause-ers saw him as a traitor, but his name is still around and remembered.

    Um, what ? Longstreet was one of the Confederacy's longest-serving senior generals. He has a significant presence in every history of the Civil War that I know of, as well as any number of battle histories.

    Sure, he is in books that people who want to know the truth read. That doesn't mean there wasn't an effort to drop him down the memory hole.

    https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/23/opinions/where-are-monuments-to-confederate-general-longstreet-opinion-holmes/index.html
    Yet outside of a roadside sign near his birthplace in Edgefield, South Carolina, one statue in Gainesville, Georgia, where he died, and his name on a few streets in a handful of Southern towns, there are virtually no memorials to Longstreet throughout the South -- or the entire country, for that matter.

    A World II tank was named after Stuart. Military bases are named after Braxton Bragg, John Bell Hood and eight other Confederate generals.

    "Stonewall" Jackson's visage is carved on Stone Mountain outside Atlanta. But few people, apart from ardent Civil War buffs, have ever heard of Longstreet.

    Edit: Do the textbooks in the south give an accurate portrayal of Longstreet? I'm pretty sure the one I had here in Wisconsin didn't even mention him.

    Veevee on
    Mayabird
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    There was a great deal of infighting after the Civil War among former Confederate generals about who was to blame for their military defeat. Longstreet was not bashful about criticizing Robert E. Lee for his mistakes, which was anathema at the time and brought much wrath down upon him. He had also been a native of North Carolina in an Army of Northern Virginia full of Virginians, some of them, like Lee, scions of wealthy, powerful families, and so it was easy to make Longstreet a recipient of blame for defeats like the battle of Gettysburg. It didn't help Longstreet that his command performance at Gettysburg and elsewhere was frequently poor.

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Command was terrible at Gettysburg on the Confederate side all around, but Lee was the one that ordered a frontal charge on dug in infantry up a hill.

    Longstreet erred in some of the details, but the overall plan was terrible and you can’t make chicken salad from chicken shit.

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Agreed. The Confederates made a lot of mistakes at Gettysburg, from Lee on down.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Command was terrible at Gettysburg on the Confederate side all around, but Lee was the one that ordered a frontal charge on dug in infantry up a hill.

    Longstreet erred in some of the details, but the overall plan was terrible and you can’t make chicken salad from chicken shit.

    Yeah, it's worth remembering that one of the longrunning project of the Lost Cause Dunning School was the rehabilitation of the traitor Lee's reputation (see also: the whitewashing of his history of being a brutal slave owner.) There's a reason that "Leeaboo" is a thing, and turning Longstreet - the Confederate who realized, Mitchell and Webb style, that he had been one of the baddies - into a scapegoat was basically killing two birds with one stone.

    Any time you're relying on historical analysis of the Civil War and the South, you have to look at it with a critical eye, because that's how pervasive and insidious the Dunning School was.

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  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    Whatever the case, the Confederates deserved no remembrance at all, fuck every single one of them who did not fully recant their cause

    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
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  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Great painting here, "The Tortoise Trainer", by Osman Hamdi, 1906. An allegory for attempts to reform and modernize the Ottoman Empire at the turn of the century.

    33ovejurhf2w.jpg

    doomybearfurlionL Ron HowardElvenshaeBlackDragon480LoisLaneMayabirdDuke 2.0AridholMetzger MeisterMonwynvalhalla130
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    From what I remember Gettysburg was a desperate last try for a military that knew it was losing

    I am remembering it wrong?

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited May 2
    Not so much desperate, but there was a faction in the Confederate high command, led by Robert E. Lee, that believed, correctly I think, that the South was always going to lose a passive war of attrition, and pressed for an invasion of the North to force the United States to agree to terms. James Longstreet was among the commanders who felt that an invasion would infuriate and motivate the North even further and opposed the plan; I suspect that this impacted his command decisions during the Gettysburg campaign.

    Allen Guelzo's GETTYSBURG: The Last Invasion, is a good Gettysburg history and goes into the Confederate command debate in some detail.

    Fairchild on
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Fairchild wrote: »
    Not so much desperate, but there was a faction in the Confederate high command, led by Robert E. Lee, that believed, correctly I think, that the South was always going to lose a passive war of attrition, and pressed for an invasion of the North to force the United States to agree to terms. James Longstreet was among the commanders who felt that an invasion would infuriate and motivate the North even further and opposed the plan; I suspect that this impacted his command decisions during the Gettysburg campaign.

    The Confederacy's big plan was to involve the British Empire in the war on their side. The rationale that no matter their feeling on slavery (the Empire was actively sinking slave ships by this time), the British needed American cotton to feed their industrial revolution. It might even have worked, had the British not figured out that cotton grows really well in Egypt.

    Once that fell through, it was all Hail Mary plays against a larger and more motivated enemy.

    Elvenshae
  • DouglasDangerDouglasDanger PennsylvaniaRegistered User regular
    The Confederates should be treated exactly like Nazis in Europe

    Except Nazis should actually be treated more harshly

    The South actually lost the war but largely won the aftermath

    Can you imagine the Nazi swastika being a pop culture image like the CSA stars and bars?

    It's disgusting

    I play games on ps3 and ps4. My PSN is DouglasDanger.
    FANTOMASPhillishereDoodmannshrykeKayne Red RobefurlionBigJoeML Ron HowardjmcdonaldSleepLoisLaneRichyHadesSkeithDuke 2.0knitdanTicaldfjamchrishallett83valhalla130kimeShadowhopeNobeardCimmeriiIncenjucarThe SauceBandableMoridin889EvermournEncVerminion
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    The Confederates should be treated exactly like Nazis in Europe

    Except Nazis should actually be treated more harshly

    The South actually lost the war but largely won the aftermath

    Can you imagine the Nazi swastika being a pop culture image like the CSA stars and bars?

    It's disgusting

    Hitler literally cited this and the Western genocides as evidence that future generations wouldn't hold Nazism against Germany.

    DoodmannBigJoeMjmcdonaldSleepBlackDragon480FencingsaxMayabirdTicaldfjamIncenjucarLoisLaneMoridin889
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