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You're [History], Like A Beat Up Car

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  • TicaldfjamTicaldfjam Snoqualmie, WARegistered User regular
    Nine wrote: »
    A day late with this but the US Marines twitter account tweeted this:


    #OTD in 1915, Maj Smedley Butler received his second Medal of Honor for his heroic actions leading his Marines at the Battle of Fort Riviere, Haiti. He is one of only two Marines to have twice received our nation’s highest decoration for battlefield valor.

    An impressive feat but Butler was more interesting than that. An idiosyncratic and outspoken personality, he was nearly court martialed after accusing Mussolini of a hit-and-run. His politics trended leftward following his retirement. It was Butler who blew the whistle on the Business Plot against FDR and coined the phrase "war is a racket." Speaking to a socialist magazine he said:
    I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

    I'm sure the Marine Corp. would have mentioned all of this if not for twitter's character limit.

    FYI, there's a new biography of Butler due out early next year.

    Wow, The US Marines were willing to railroad ,one of their own, for fuckin Mussolini!?

    Holy shit Humanity.

  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited November 19
    spool32 wrote: »
    if you have an Audible account, check out the Great Courses lecture series called “Greece and Rome: An Integrated History of the Ancient Mediterranean” by Robert Garland. It’s a great survey course and will teach you a lot of introductory level stuff with a few deep dives as well.

    I haven't checked Audible's Great Courses catalog much, but if they have it, the History of Ancient Rome series by Garrett Fagan (who I had the opportunity to chat with a couple of times when I traveled to conferences as an aide to my main prof at UMKC when I was finishing my BA. Sadly he died a few years ago from pancreatic cancer) is fantastic as a more focused follow up that also gets into the nitty-gritty of historiography and critiquing of pseudoarcheology. He does have a slight stammer in his speech, but a fantastic sense of humor and is almost never boring or overly dry.

    Just checked, they have his whole tri-fecta from Great Courses.

    History of Ancient Rome covers the kicking out of the kings, the rise of the republic, and up to Constantine. Emperors of Rome is like it says, with some minor background on the government of the late republic then it goes from the Gracchi Brothers through to 476. Great Battles of the Ancient World is the weakest of the bunch, as he's covering stuff outside his primary focus and less overall facility with some of the material, but still interesting and ends on a high note with a very nice covering of Caesar's lightning campaign against Pompey after crossing the Rubicon.

    BlackDragon480 on
    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    Captain Inertiaspool32
  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Ticaldfjam wrote: »
    Nine wrote: »
    A day late with this but the US Marines twitter account tweeted this:


    #OTD in 1915, Maj Smedley Butler received his second Medal of Honor for his heroic actions leading his Marines at the Battle of Fort Riviere, Haiti. He is one of only two Marines to have twice received our nation’s highest decoration for battlefield valor.

    An impressive feat but Butler was more interesting than that. An idiosyncratic and outspoken personality, he was nearly court martialed after accusing Mussolini of a hit-and-run. His politics trended leftward following his retirement. It was Butler who blew the whistle on the Business Plot against FDR and coined the phrase "war is a racket." Speaking to a socialist magazine he said:
    I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

    I'm sure the Marine Corp. would have mentioned all of this if not for twitter's character limit.

    FYI, there's a new biography of Butler due out early next year.

    Wow, The US Marines were willing to railroad ,one of their own, for fuckin Mussolini!?

    Holy shit Humanity.

    Huh, NYT actually has an article on it saved.

    https://www.nytimes.com/1931/01/30/archives/united-states-apologizes-to-mussolini-general-butler-to-be.html

  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Ticaldfjam wrote: »
    Nine wrote: »
    A day late with this but the US Marines twitter account tweeted this:


    #OTD in 1915, Maj Smedley Butler received his second Medal of Honor for his heroic actions leading his Marines at the Battle of Fort Riviere, Haiti. He is one of only two Marines to have twice received our nation’s highest decoration for battlefield valor.

    An impressive feat but Butler was more interesting than that. An idiosyncratic and outspoken personality, he was nearly court martialed after accusing Mussolini of a hit-and-run. His politics trended leftward following his retirement. It was Butler who blew the whistle on the Business Plot against FDR and coined the phrase "war is a racket." Speaking to a socialist magazine he said:
    I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."

    I'm sure the Marine Corp. would have mentioned all of this if not for twitter's character limit.

    FYI, there's a new biography of Butler due out early next year.

    Wow, The US Marines were willing to railroad ,one of their own, for fuckin Mussolini!?

    Holy shit Humanity.

    Harding through Hoover was one of the lowlights in our history when it came to the ethics of American policy, both foreign and domestic. Congress and a decent chunk of the electorate really didn't like the way Wilson handled WWI and the Versailles peace process and many Republicans in congress (especially in the Senate) felt he was constantly condescending and talked down/lectured them, helping prompt the hard isolationist swing in public opinion and policy during the 20's.

    This is the timeframe that had the National Origins act putting extremely skewed quotas on immigration (based on population ratios of country or origin levels from freaking 1890), tacit allowance of eugenics and unethical experimentation in sanitariums and scientific institutions (Tuskeegee, etc...), and lots of other heinous shit.

    By '31 Italy was a nation on the rise in Europe and was (for time being) handling the beginnings of the Great Depression better than the US. Japan had invaded China and was set to manufacture the "incident" that would have the Kwangtun army establish Manchukwo. The Hoover administration was basically looking to try and weather the economic and diplomatic shitstorm that was enveloping the world by staying as low key as possible and they wouldn't hesitate to throw anyone under the bus. Chamberlain was far from the only one to show undue deference to the fascist during the "low, dishonest decade".

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    Fencingsaxspool32marajiGiantGeek2020Nine
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    I don't really do podcasts or audibles, as I have a hard time listening to audio only speaking.

    Thankyou for the suggestions, but I will not be taking any of them re speaking only sources. My apologies.

    I bought SPQR on the way to work this morning and it should arrive within a week.

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
    BlackDragon480RMS Oceanic
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited November 19
    I don't really do podcasts or audibles, as I have a hard time listening to audio only speaking.

    Thankyou for the suggestions, but I will not be taking any of them re speaking only sources. My apologies.

    I bought SPQR on the way to work this morning and it should arrive within a week.

    I have DVD/video copies of the 2 Rome lecture series I mentioned (I've been buying and checking out the Teaching Company's audio and video series from the public library for years) and they have plenty of visual aides and Dr. Fagan isn't the type to just stand at the lecturn and simply read everything from notes.

    Not as much flair/pizazz as a History Channel or PBS program, but far from static. I'd be happy to send one of them to you for just the cost of shipping. PM me if you'd be interested.

    BlackDragon480 on
    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    Nah it's ok. I'll just read this book and see where I want to go from there. Thanks tho!

    Also I'm in Australia so those DVDs will be going on a longer trip than you probably were expecting. :lol:

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Nah it's ok. I'll just read this book and see where I want to go from there. Thanks tho!

    Also I'm in Australia so those DVDs will be going on a longer trip than you probably were expecting. :lol:

    Ohhh...yea, I've had a couple of region 2 blu-rays I've ordered in the past year with the delivery time was measured in months due to the shipping chain clusterfuck and customs taking longer to clear everything cause of COVID protocols.

    May you enjoy SPQR then.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/thanksgiving-pumpkin-pie-culture-war?fbclid=IwAR36zKq42jd-l9Dbh08ZqxxRajlIZMoDa3Q9YJzQ1zazASpD9jDoOmFkB7w

    Pretty interesting little bit of American history. The pumpkin pie and Thanksgiving as an anti-slavery symbol.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
    knitdanBlackDragon480
  • MorninglordMorninglord Registered User regular
    I got book. :)

    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
    IncenjucarGiantGeek2020BrodyBlackDragon480Elvenshaeboogedyboo
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    I got book. :)

    May your journey be blessed by Juipter Optimus Maximus.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    GiantGeek2020RMS Oceanic
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Whilst we await Morninglord's thoughts on the Roman Empire, let's change gears a bit. I posted a couple of little screeds in the SE Jobs thread I'm sure this audience can appreciate. It will be a bit long:

    Being a wannabe historian with a focus on Tudor/Stuart Britain, let's have fun with pre-modern, Galenic/humour based medical science by looking at the final few days of Chuck II of England.

    On Feb 2. 1685 the Merry Monarch awoke after a restless night, caused by pain from an ulcer/open sore on his leg (he was known to have gout, cause the man drank like a fish and loved fatty foods, though he wasn't near Henry VIII huge. He also had more than 10 mistresses simultaneously, how he found the time, stamina, and staved off whiskey dick is anyone's guess) and prepared to have his morning shave. During his shave he screamed loudly and then experienced an apoplectic/convulsive fit, his complexion became sallow, and he lost the ability to speak. Whether it was a stroke or uremia from the gout is again unknown, but within 2 hours of symptom onset he had his entire Cadre of doctors and natural philosopers from the Royal Academy making a house call to the royal bedchamber.

    He was being shaved a little after 7am and by the time noon rolled around the following had all been administered to him:

    - was bled for nearly a pint from the right wrist
    - cupped him (a process where heated glass cups/wine goblets were applied to exposed skin while they were heated, to try and draw bad humours out through the pores)
    --given several different emetics/purgatives to the point he probably vomited up his toenails
    - not to ignore the opposite end, he was given at least one enema
    - had multiple mustard and caustic plasters applied to various areas of skin
    - bled off another half pint or so
    - given a compound of bitter powder and various herbs with anti histamine and anti inflammatory properties. A liquid 17th century aspirin and ibuprofen cocktail, basically
    - after all that they finally let him just rest the remainder of the day

    Day 2, Tuesday February 3, 1685

    -soon after waking he had another seizure, so he was prescribed and given no less than 4 separate herbal tonics to be administered every 6 hours, some with actual medical value, most without
    - about noon they drained another 10-12 oz of blood and more skin blistering plasters. After said plasters it was just two more doses of all 4 tonics the rest of the day.

    Day 3, Wednesday February 4th, 1685

    - he got a slight reprieve from his doctors and had a fairly pleasant day till late in the afternoon when it was another horseshit herb cocktail and even though he didn't have any convulsions that day they gave him a solution made from pulverized human skull dust, which was thought to help eplilepsy/seizures.

    Day 4, Thursday February 5th 1685

    -news reachd Whitehall that a fever of indeterminate origin had broken out in London and Westminster, so the crackpots went into full prevention mode and doused him with enough willow/Peruvian bark to make a year's supply of low dose aspirin and some more tonics, and even higher doses of skull powder tea, that Charles could barely keep down.

    Day 5, Friday February 6th 1685

    -this thankfully wound up being his final day on this earth. After the week from hell, he knew his body was simply and utterly fucked. But he always had a sense of humor and he apologized to his doctors for taking such a long time to die and politely asked his brother James (soon to be James II of England by the end of the day) to make sure that his favorite mistress (stage actress Nell Gwen) would have a pension and not starve since she wasn't high born and then he asked to be moved closer to the window to see/feel the sunrise one last time.

    It was determined that what passed for science then did more to kill him than any infection or disease affecting him and if not for his doctors he had a strong enough constitution to probably not succumb to his final illness.

    Fun little extra credit piece for the class. While all British monarchs after Henry VIII (even Liz II right now) have been the Supreme Governor/Head of the Anglican branch of Protestantism, Chuck II surprised his entire court the morning he died. While fleeing Scotland after his father Charles I was executed by Cromwell and the rump parliament in 1649 Charles II hid in the top of an oak tree for over a day and was found and smuggled to the coast by a Catholic priest. His brother James (soon to be James II) was a hard-core Catholic (primary reason he was ousted by the Glorious Revolution of 1688) and snuck the same priest, one John Huddleston, up a back stairway to the king's chamber at Whitehall and before losing consciousness the last time, Chuck confessed, was annointed with oil, and took a final communion in the Roman Catholic faith (he'd denied multiple attempts by an Anglican bishop to make him confess and take the eucharist before he died).

    And speaking of Nell Gwen:

    There are a plethora of anecdotes about Nelly, some with contemporary corroboration, many without.

    One of the verified ones was a time she was traveling through Oxford in a private carriage, when an impromptu mob began to surround the coach and her small escort. The mob was of an anti-Catholic mind and they had been told that the carriage was transporting the Duchess of Portsmouth, one of Charles' Catholic mistresses.

    Thinking fast on her feet, Nell decided to press her luck and stuck her head out the window (being a stage actress (one of England's first major female stars, as women on stage were only first allowed under James I in the 1610's) for years to this point, her face was known having been featured on many a flier for theaters in London) and declared to the couple dozen people baying for blood: "Good people, you are mistaken! I am a protestant whore!"

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
    NitsuaSmaug6MvrckAimGiantGeek2020Elvenshaevalhalla130ErlecMagellKrieghundL Ron Howard
  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Cross-posted from SE++ history thread


    You see some ancient statue or coin or bust or whatever and someone is rocking a crazy -do. How did they do that?

    Enter the hair-style archeologist.



    Janet Stephens: professional hairdresser by day, history nerd by night. Archaeologists (rarely hairdressers) thought lots of women were wearing wigs. Stephens however, knew hair, and was able to figure out how a lot of these styles were likely created, which sometimes included hair being sewn with a needle and thread (as in the previous video). Ridiculous and elaborate? Sure, but these were the richest of the rich and most powerful of the powerful we're talking about here; the ostentatious decadent elaborateness was the point.





    Just another element of life in history you may not have thought of before.

    NitsuaBlackDragon480MvrckGiantGeek2020ElvenshaeIncenjucarErlecL Ron Howard
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