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Posts

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Haven’t played it yet, but disloyal commanders who might disobey orders or just straight try to assassinate you are apparently big features of Total War: Three Kingdoms.

  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    The mongols had their share of battlefield fuckups now and then. The Battle of Ain Jalut had them impulsively charging against a false retreat just like many of their foes and getting wiped out for it, for example.

    But on the flip side, there's Subutai, who basically pulled off Blitzkrieg againt Poland and Hungary 700 years before the invention of radio.

    steam_sig.png
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    edited August 5
    I think Caesar would have trouble with the "don't kill POWs and civilian populations" aspect of modern warfare.

    Besides, if Star Trek Into Darkness taught us anything, Caesar's skills would be best used designing new high-tech weapon systems.

    Richy on
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    I think Caesar would have trouble with the "don't kill POWs and civilian populations" aspect of modern warfare.

    Oh, surely not. If you kill them, how do you sell them into slavery?

    RchanenKayne Red RobeSmrtnikSolarLoisLaneMoridin889Duke 2.0Kipling217
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    Keep them alive for your victory parade. Then kill them.

    RchanenKayne Red RobeElvenshaeLoisLaneoverride367Kipling217
  • GvzbgulGvzbgul Ask me about my scrotalist agenda Registered User regular
    I highly reccommend Combat Mission. It feels like a tabletop wargame and takes just as long but i never felt like i was controlling my troops. I was giving orders and they were following them to the best of their ability.

    Me and my friend would play Combat Mission Africa Corps with one minute between orders. So the game would be paused, you give your orders, then the game runs for 60 seconds, pauses and you give more orders. You cant see enemy units if your troops can't but you can anticipate the enemy. It was a lot of fun.

    SmrtnikCarpy
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    I've been watching a documentary on the Black Death in Norway (made by national public broadcaster NRK). I knew most of it before, but it inspired me to write this post.

    The plague came to Norway in two rounds, Oslo in 1348 and Bjørgvin (now Bergen) in 1349, with the big outbreaks starting in 1349 (the outbreak in Oslo came late fall and was contained by the winter, but spread once the thaw came).

    In 1348 there were perhaps 350,000 people living in an independent Norway (in 2019 we're 7 million, for comparison). The plague killed 200,000 in the first outbreak (the last outbreak was mid 1600s). About 200 (out of 1000) counties were completely depopulated. The royal family died out, as did the nobility (surviving nobles were reduced to the status of major farmers) and the clergy. The Archbishopric of Nidaros (now Trondheim) were forced to send a letter to the pope, asking for dispensation to let bastards achieve all clerical ranks and responsibilities (this was normally against canon law), because there was literally one surviving full cleric left. The Norse language died out as a written language. Norway itself ceased to be an independent political unit for 434 years (1380 to 1814, fully independent 1905).

    Leaving your farm or residence was forbidden by both secular authority (because serfdom) and clerical authority (because you're not allowed to try to escape God's divine punishment). Sources from the time tell us that inhabitants of close-by villages or farms would yell or blow horns to signal to each other. When the other guys didn't reply you knew they were all dead.

    Many legends, stories and place names survive to this day from the days of the plague. Places like "Ødegård" (lit. deserted farm) or "Elden" (lit. the fire; only a single hearth in the village was still lit after the plague had passed). A famous legend is the legend of "Jostedalsrypa" (lit. the grouse (a bird) of the Joste Valley) about a young girl living wild after everyone in her valley had died.

    The personification of the plague was Pesta (lit. The Plague). Tales tell us that other personifications and harbingers of death can be reasoned or bargained with. Not Pesta. In the form of a silent old woman carrying a broom and a rake, she travelled from house to house, farm to farm, town to town. When she stopped at a house, she would sweep the front porch with either the broom or the rake. If she used the broom, everyone inside would die. If she used the rake, only most would die.

    2007--L07-24-Per-31510-01.jpg?itok=vU_0pRvI
    "Pesta kommer" (lit. The Plague Arrives) by Theodor Kittelsen, ca. 1896. Since she's carrying the rake, there will be some survivors in the house she's approaching (note the lit window).

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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  • BogartBogart Streetwise Hercules Fighting The Rising Odds Registered User, Moderator mod
    Guys, that's enough 'recommend videogames about warfare' posts, thanks.

  • Captain InertiaCaptain Inertia Registered User regular
    I've been watching a documentary on the Black Death in Norway (made by national public broadcaster NRK). I knew most of it before, but it inspired me to write this post.

    The plague came to Norway in two rounds, Oslo in 1348 and Bjørgvin (now Bergen) in 1349, with the big outbreaks starting in 1349 (the outbreak in Oslo came late fall and was contained by the winter, but spread once the thaw came).

    In 1348 there were perhaps 350,000 people living in an independent Norway (in 2019 we're 7 million, for comparison). The plague killed 200,000 in the first outbreak (the last outbreak was mid 1600s). About 200 (out of 1000) counties were completely depopulated. The royal family died out, as did the nobility (surviving nobles were reduced to the status of major farmers) and the clergy. The Archbishopric of Nidaros (now Trondheim) were forced to send a letter to the pope, asking for dispensation to let bastards achieve all clerical ranks and responsibilities (this was normally against canon law), because there was literally one surviving full cleric left. The Norse language died out as a written language. Norway itself ceased to be an independent political unit for 434 years (1380 to 1814, fully independent 1905).

    Leaving your farm or residence was forbidden by both secular authority (because serfdom) and clerical authority (because you're not allowed to try to escape God's divine punishment). Sources from the time tell us that inhabitants of close-by villages or farms would yell or blow horns to signal to each other. When the other guys didn't reply you knew they were all dead.

    Many legends, stories and place names survive to this day from the days of the plague. Places like "Ødegård" (lit. deserted farm) or "Elden" (lit. the fire; only a single hearth in the village was still lit after the plague had passed). A famous legend is the legend of "Jostedalsrypa" (lit. the grouse (a bird) of the Joste Valley) about a young girl living wild after everyone in her valley had died.

    The personification of the plague was Pesta (lit. The Plague). Tales tell us that other personifications and harbingers of death can be reasoned or bargained with. Not Pesta. In the form of a silent old woman carrying a broom and a rake, she travelled from house to house, farm to farm, town to town. When she stopped at a house, she would sweep the front porch with either the broom or the rake. If she used the broom, everyone inside would die. If she used the rake, only most would die.

    2007--L07-24-Per-31510-01.jpg?itok=vU_0pRvI
    "Pesta kommer" (lit. The Plague Arrives) by Theodor Kittelsen, ca. 1896. Since she's carrying the rake, there will be some survivors in the house she's approaching (note the lit window).

    Dang, now I want “A Distant Mirror: Norway”

  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Foefaller wrote: »
    The mongols had their share of battlefield fuckups now and then. The Battle of Ain Jalut had them impulsively charging against a false retreat just like many of their foes and getting wiped out for it, for example.

    But on the flip side, there's Subutai, who basically pulled off Blitzkrieg against Poland and Hungary 700 years before the invention of radio.

    Subutai is by far my favorite general from history. When he decided to invade Russia, he specifically waited until winter froze the rivers and used them as highways.

    camo_sig.png
    Mayabird
  • FANTOMASFANTOMAS Flan ArgentavisRegistered User regular
    My favorite historical general is Hannibal Barca, he allegedly really knew how to gain victory. (but not how to use it)

  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    Hannibal almost won and if he was facing anyone other than the Romans probably would have. His main disadvantage was that while he was quite a genius himself he was facing an enemy that was at a strong advantage and also were quite good themselves, and sometimes genius just isn’t enough to square that circle.

    destroyah87
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Hannibal almost won and if he was facing anyone other than the Romans probably would have. His main disadvantage was that while he was quite a genius himself he was facing an enemy that was at a strong advantage and also were quite good themselves, and sometimes genius just isn’t enough to square that circle.

    He also marched on Rome without the manpower and equipment to siege it, leaving him with no Plan B when Rome refused even moderate surrender terms.

    destroyah87
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Hannibal almost won and if he was facing anyone other than the Romans probably would have. His main disadvantage was that while he was quite a genius himself he was facing an enemy that was at a strong advantage and also were quite good themselves, and sometimes genius just isn’t enough to square that circle.

    He also marched on Rome without the manpower and equipment to siege it, leaving him with no Plan B when Rome refused even moderate surrender terms.

    To be fair, he had the manpower,and equipment. He just, kinda, you know, lost it in the Alps.

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    I think the march on Rome was basically a hail mary. He had hoped to get a lot of additional manpower when Italian ally states deserted Rome because Rome was shown to be vulnerable but despite Rome suffering major losses in the field that just... Didn’t happen.

    The thing is historically this wasn’t a horrible plan, because in the past there had been plenty of cases of a hegemonic empire falling apart when the head suffered military defeats. Hannibal misread the relationship of Rome and its allies though which were not particularly chomping at the bit to turn on Rome in favor of Carthage. Rome also took manpower losses a lot better than many ancient powers of the time which were often catastrophic because most ancient empires just didn’t have the ability to raise troops and allied troops that Rome did.

    doomybearKayne Red Robe
  • Kipling217Kipling217 Registered User regular
    edited August 5
    I think the march on Rome was basically a hail mary. He had hoped to get a lot of additional manpower when Italian ally states deserted Rome because Rome was shown to be vulnerable but despite Rome suffering major losses in the field that just... Didn’t happen.

    The thing is historically this wasn’t a horrible plan, because in the past there had been plenty of cases of a hegemonic empire falling apart when the head suffered military defeats. Hannibal misread the relationship of Rome and its allies though which were not particularly chomping at the bit to turn on Rome in favor of Carthage. Rome also took manpower losses a lot better than many ancient powers of the time which were often catastrophic because most ancient empires just didn’t have the ability to raise troops and allied troops that Rome did.

    I mean Cannae is still the go to for complete and utter victory, but the war itself should be a go to for why Logistics matter.

    edit: Most ancient empires couldn't replace the weapons lost at Cannae, much less the soldiers.

    Kipling217 on
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  • FANTOMASFANTOMAS Flan ArgentavisRegistered User regular
    I think the march on Rome was basically a hail mary. He had hoped to get a lot of additional manpower when Italian ally states deserted Rome because Rome was shown to be vulnerable but despite Rome suffering major losses in the field that just... Didn’t happen.

    The thing is historically this wasn’t a horrible plan, because in the past there had been plenty of cases of a hegemonic empire falling apart when the head suffered military defeats. Hannibal misread the relationship of Rome and its allies though which were not particularly chomping at the bit to turn on Rome in favor of Carthage. Rome also took manpower losses a lot better than many ancient powers of the time which were often catastrophic because most ancient empires just didn’t have the ability to raise troops and allied troops that Rome did.

    Not all romans were cool with taking losses.
    On the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest:


    Upon hearing of the defeat, the Emperor Augustus, according to the Roman historian Suetonius in The Twelve Caesars, was so shaken that he stood butting his head against the walls of his palace, repeatedly shouting:

    "Quintili Vare, legiones redde!“ ('Quintilius Varus, give me back my legions!')
    The legion numbers XVII and XIX were not used again by the Romans


    (from wikipedia)

    Gvzbgul
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited August 6
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    I think the march on Rome was basically a hail mary. He had hoped to get a lot of additional manpower when Italian ally states deserted Rome because Rome was shown to be vulnerable but despite Rome suffering major losses in the field that just... Didn’t happen.

    The thing is historically this wasn’t a horrible plan, because in the past there had been plenty of cases of a hegemonic empire falling apart when the head suffered military defeats. Hannibal misread the relationship of Rome and its allies though which were not particularly chomping at the bit to turn on Rome in favor of Carthage. Rome also took manpower losses a lot better than many ancient powers of the time which were often catastrophic because most ancient empires just didn’t have the ability to raise troops and allied troops that Rome did.

    Not all romans were cool with taking losses.
    On the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest:


    Upon hearing of the defeat, the Emperor Augustus, according to the Roman historian Suetonius in The Twelve Caesars, was so shaken that he stood butting his head against the walls of his palace, repeatedly shouting:

    "Quintili Vare, legiones redde!“ ('Quintilius Varus, give me back my legions!')
    The legion numbers XVII and XIX were not used again by the Romans


    (from wikipedia)

    I don’t think anyone was cool with taking losses, but the Romans at least could survive.

    For the most part when you will look at ancient warfare you will notice that most wars there are a few skirmishes and then one or two major battles. There’s a reason for that - most of the time in ancient warfare if you lost 80,000 guys in a battle you were done. It could literally take you years or even a generation to recover from a loss like that - not just manpower but weapons, equipment, etc.

    The Romans had the logistics to survive something like that and continue to fight, which was impressive as hell. Its like Hannibal was Mike Tyson - the strategy of the Romans against him was “wear him down, keep him on his toes, but don’t get caught by that left hook” while Hannibal’s strategy was “Hit hard, hit fast, get them with the left hook and put them on the ground, don’t let it get dragged out to a war of attrition”.

    This wasn’t that unusual for an invasion in ancient warfare. The thing is, the Romans DID get hit by that left hook. So what does Mike Tyson do when he’s fighting someone, gets past the rope-a-dope, lands that massive left hook... and the guy doesn’t go down, he just staggers around for a couple of seconds and goes right back to his game plan?

    That was the problem Hannibal had - he could land plenty of great punches, but he couldn’t keep the Romans down. And the Romans knew he couldn’t keep them down, so every time they would have one of these big losses (and Cannae wasn’t the only one), they just went back to their game plan - rebuild, attrition, keep him moving, rope a dope until he runs out of steam - and they were right, eventually Hannibal ran out of steam and went home.

    Jealous Deva on
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  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger Registered User regular
    I've been watching a documentary on the Black Death in Norway (made by national public broadcaster NRK). I knew most of it before, but it inspired me to write this post.

    The plague came to Norway in two rounds, Oslo in 1348 and Bjørgvin (now Bergen) in 1349, with the big outbreaks starting in 1349 (the outbreak in Oslo came late fall and was contained by the winter, but spread once the thaw came).

    In 1348 there were perhaps 350,000 people living in an independent Norway (in 2019 we're 7 million, for comparison). The plague killed 200,000 in the first outbreak (the last outbreak was mid 1600s). About 200 (out of 1000) counties were completely depopulated. The royal family died out, as did the nobility (surviving nobles were reduced to the status of major farmers) and the clergy. The Archbishopric of Nidaros (now Trondheim) were forced to send a letter to the pope, asking for dispensation to let bastards achieve all clerical ranks and responsibilities (this was normally against canon law), because there was literally one surviving full cleric left. The Norse language died out as a written language. Norway itself ceased to be an independent political unit for 434 years (1380 to 1814, fully independent 1905).

    Leaving your farm or residence was forbidden by both secular authority (because serfdom) and clerical authority (because you're not allowed to try to escape God's divine punishment). Sources from the time tell us that inhabitants of close-by villages or farms would yell or blow horns to signal to each other. When the other guys didn't reply you knew they were all dead.

    Many legends, stories and place names survive to this day from the days of the plague. Places like "Ødegård" (lit. deserted farm) or "Elden" (lit. the fire; only a single hearth in the village was still lit after the plague had passed). A famous legend is the legend of "Jostedalsrypa" (lit. the grouse (a bird) of the Joste Valley) about a young girl living wild after everyone in her valley had died.

    The personification of the plague was Pesta (lit. The Plague). Tales tell us that other personifications and harbingers of death can be reasoned or bargained with. Not Pesta. In the form of a silent old woman carrying a broom and a rake, she travelled from house to house, farm to farm, town to town. When she stopped at a house, she would sweep the front porch with either the broom or the rake. If she used the broom, everyone inside would die. If she used the rake, only most would die.

    2007--L07-24-Per-31510-01.jpg?itok=vU_0pRvI
    "Pesta kommer" (lit. The Plague Arrives) by Theodor Kittelsen, ca. 1896. Since she's carrying the rake, there will be some survivors in the house she's approaching (note the lit window).

    Chilling story, thanks.

    I notice Pesta is also carrying the broom...

    NitsuaRchanenRhesus PositiveMayabirddiscriderForar
  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Total Goober Registered User regular
    I love Fabian. Wins a war by deciding not to fight it.

    RchanenFencingsax
  • [Expletive deleted][Expletive deleted] The mediocre doctor NorwayRegistered User regular
    I've been watching a documentary on the Black Death in Norway (made by national public broadcaster NRK). I knew most of it before, but it inspired me to write this post.

    The plague came to Norway in two rounds, Oslo in 1348 and Bjørgvin (now Bergen) in 1349, with the big outbreaks starting in 1349 (the outbreak in Oslo came late fall and was contained by the winter, but spread once the thaw came).

    In 1348 there were perhaps 350,000 people living in an independent Norway (in 2019 we're 7 million, for comparison). The plague killed 200,000 in the first outbreak (the last outbreak was mid 1600s). About 200 (out of 1000) counties were completely depopulated. The royal family died out, as did the nobility (surviving nobles were reduced to the status of major farmers) and the clergy. The Archbishopric of Nidaros (now Trondheim) were forced to send a letter to the pope, asking for dispensation to let bastards achieve all clerical ranks and responsibilities (this was normally against canon law), because there was literally one surviving full cleric left. The Norse language died out as a written language. Norway itself ceased to be an independent political unit for 434 years (1380 to 1814, fully independent 1905).

    Leaving your farm or residence was forbidden by both secular authority (because serfdom) and clerical authority (because you're not allowed to try to escape God's divine punishment). Sources from the time tell us that inhabitants of close-by villages or farms would yell or blow horns to signal to each other. When the other guys didn't reply you knew they were all dead.

    Many legends, stories and place names survive to this day from the days of the plague. Places like "Ødegård" (lit. deserted farm) or "Elden" (lit. the fire; only a single hearth in the village was still lit after the plague had passed). A famous legend is the legend of "Jostedalsrypa" (lit. the grouse (a bird) of the Joste Valley) about a young girl living wild after everyone in her valley had died.

    The personification of the plague was Pesta (lit. The Plague). Tales tell us that other personifications and harbingers of death can be reasoned or bargained with. Not Pesta. In the form of a silent old woman carrying a broom and a rake, she travelled from house to house, farm to farm, town to town. When she stopped at a house, she would sweep the front porch with either the broom or the rake. If she used the broom, everyone inside would die. If she used the rake, only most would die.

    2007--L07-24-Per-31510-01.jpg?itok=vU_0pRvI
    "Pesta kommer" (lit. The Plague Arrives) by Theodor Kittelsen, ca. 1896. Since she's carrying the rake, there will be some survivors in the house she's approaching (note the lit window).

    Chilling story, thanks.

    I notice Pesta is also carrying the broom...

    Well, shit. I actually hadn't noticed that.

    Sic transit gloria mundi.
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  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I think part of Hannibal's plan was always to peel Roman allies away from them with his spectacular victories. Remember that Rome ruled Italy, but Italy wasn't Rome. Until the Social War (one of the better examples in history of thousands dying for pigheaded resistance to change), Italy was a confederation of tribes and city states under Roman hegemony, and if enough of them had pledged allegiance to Hannibal the snowball effect would have made Rome's position untenable no matter how stubborn they were. Unfortunately for him not enough did so, and then the Romans outlasted him after finally adopting the Fabian Strategy.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    I think the march on Rome was basically a hail mary. He had hoped to get a lot of additional manpower when Italian ally states deserted Rome because Rome was shown to be vulnerable but despite Rome suffering major losses in the field that just... Didn’t happen.

    The thing is historically this wasn’t a horrible plan, because in the past there had been plenty of cases of a hegemonic empire falling apart when the head suffered military defeats. Hannibal misread the relationship of Rome and its allies though which were not particularly chomping at the bit to turn on Rome in favor of Carthage. Rome also took manpower losses a lot better than many ancient powers of the time which were often catastrophic because most ancient empires just didn’t have the ability to raise troops and allied troops that Rome did.

    Not all romans were cool with taking losses.
    On the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest:


    Upon hearing of the defeat, the Emperor Augustus, according to the Roman historian Suetonius in The Twelve Caesars, was so shaken that he stood butting his head against the walls of his palace, repeatedly shouting:

    "Quintili Vare, legiones redde!“ ('Quintilius Varus, give me back my legions!')
    The legion numbers XVII and XIX were not used again by the Romans


    (from wikipedia)

    I don’t think anyone was cool with taking losses, but the Romans at least could survive.

    For the most part when you will look at ancient warfare you will notice that most wars there are a few skirmishes and then one or two major battles. There’s a reason for that - most of the time in ancient warfare if you lost 80,000 guys in a battle you were done. It could literally take you years or even a generation to recover from a loss like that - not just manpower but weapons, equipment, etc.

    The Romans had the logistics to survive something like that and continue to fight, which was impressive as hell. Its like Hannibal was Mike Tyson - the strategy of the Romans against him was “wear him down, keep him on his toes, but don’t get caught by that left hook” while Hannibal’s strategy was “Hit hard, hit fast, get them with the left hook and put them on the ground, don’t let it get dragged out to a war of attrition”.

    This wasn’t that unusual for an invasion in ancient warfare. The thing is, the Romans DID get hit by that left hook. So what does Mike Tyson do when he’s fighting someone, gets past the rope-a-dope, lands that massive left hook... and the guy doesn’t go down, he just staggers around for a couple of seconds and goes right back to his game plan?

    That was the problem Hannibal had - he could land plenty of great punches, but he couldn’t keep the Romans down. And the Romans knew he couldn’t keep them down, so every time they would have one of these big losses (and Cannae wasn’t the only one), they just went back to their game plan - rebuild, attrition, keep him moving, rope a dope until he runs out of steam - and they were right, eventually Hannibal ran out of steam and went home.

    Hannibal didn't run out of steam and go home. The Romans launched an invasion of Cartage and forced them to recall him home to defend themselves.

    sig.gif
    destroyah87RchanenFANTOMASFencingsaxSkeith
  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    FANTOMAS wrote: »
    I think the march on Rome was basically a hail mary. He had hoped to get a lot of additional manpower when Italian ally states deserted Rome because Rome was shown to be vulnerable but despite Rome suffering major losses in the field that just... Didn’t happen.

    The thing is historically this wasn’t a horrible plan, because in the past there had been plenty of cases of a hegemonic empire falling apart when the head suffered military defeats. Hannibal misread the relationship of Rome and its allies though which were not particularly chomping at the bit to turn on Rome in favor of Carthage. Rome also took manpower losses a lot better than many ancient powers of the time which were often catastrophic because most ancient empires just didn’t have the ability to raise troops and allied troops that Rome did.

    Not all romans were cool with taking losses.
    On the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest:


    Upon hearing of the defeat, the Emperor Augustus, according to the Roman historian Suetonius in The Twelve Caesars, was so shaken that he stood butting his head against the walls of his palace, repeatedly shouting:

    "Quintili Vare, legiones redde!“ ('Quintilius Varus, give me back my legions!')
    The legion numbers XVII and XIX were not used again by the Romans


    (from wikipedia)

    I don’t think anyone was cool with taking losses, but the Romans at least could survive.

    For the most part when you will look at ancient warfare you will notice that most wars there are a few skirmishes and then one or two major battles. There’s a reason for that - most of the time in ancient warfare if you lost 80,000 guys in a battle you were done. It could literally take you years or even a generation to recover from a loss like that - not just manpower but weapons, equipment, etc.

    The Romans had the logistics to survive something like that and continue to fight, which was impressive as hell. Its like Hannibal was Mike Tyson - the strategy of the Romans against him was “wear him down, keep him on his toes, but don’t get caught by that left hook” while Hannibal’s strategy was “Hit hard, hit fast, get them with the left hook and put them on the ground, don’t let it get dragged out to a war of attrition”.

    This wasn’t that unusual for an invasion in ancient warfare. The thing is, the Romans DID get hit by that left hook. So what does Mike Tyson do when he’s fighting someone, gets past the rope-a-dope, lands that massive left hook... and the guy doesn’t go down, he just staggers around for a couple of seconds and goes right back to his game plan?

    That was the problem Hannibal had - he could land plenty of great punches, but he couldn’t keep the Romans down. And the Romans knew he couldn’t keep them down, so every time they would have one of these big losses (and Cannae wasn’t the only one), they just went back to their game plan - rebuild, attrition, keep him moving, rope a dope until he runs out of steam - and they were right, eventually Hannibal ran out of steam and went home.

    Hannibal didn't run out of steam and go home. The Romans launched an invasion of Cartage and forced them to recall him home to defend themselves.

    He had kinda run out of steam, but primary because Carthage refused to reinforce him by sea in Italy and so he spent the better part of a decade with a hungry army that couldn't siege or run protracted campaigns because they had to concentrate all efforts on trade and forage.

    Also in the lead up to Zama you had Scipio getting a PhD in kicking Barca ass by pantsing Hannibal's fairly talented brother Hasdrubal for nearly 5 years.

    Rome was both incredibly stubborn for keeping up the fight and incredibly lucky that the council of Carthage was dumber than a bag of hammers to escape the 2nd Punic War with Roma Victrix.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Canada's last cyclorama gets protected status
    A popular entertainment in the 19th century, cycloramas put people in the centre of an immense painting, whose casting of shadow and light gave an illusion of it being three-dimensional. A guide would explain the images to visitors, while another worker produced sound effects.

    The Cyclorama of Jérusalem has been in Sainte-Anne-de-Beaupré, Que., — near the site of a basilica that boasts of its healing powers — since 1895. It was painted in the U.S. between 1887 and 1888 and was then showcased in Montreal.

    "It is indisputably a national treasure," said Sirois-Trahan, a film studies professor. "There are so so few 19th-century cycloramas left in the world. It is very likely the biggest."

    Cycloramas were equivalent to modern-day blockbuster Imax movies, Sirois-Trahan said. Every major city had one, he said, including Boston, Philadelphia and Toronto. New York City and Chicago had two.

    "We have to remember that this was a period where there were very few images. People were illiterate for the large part. Newspapers did not have extensive photographs," Sirois-Trahan said.

    "We were really living in a world without images, and especially images from far-away places. For people at the time, it was like they had been teleported to Jerusalem."

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  • MayabirdMayabird Pecking at the keyboardRegistered User regular
    Michael Harriot is a Senior Writer at TheRoot.com



    This is a great Twitter thread. I'm just posting the first since it's long, but it's a good read and worth it. It's the actual kind of history that people don't get taught in schools.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    That's amazing. Esp the line about mapquest

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Egypt archaeologists find 20 ancient coffins near Luxor

    _109253794_mediaitem109253793.jpg

    One of the largest finds of its kind, they dug up 20 sarcophagus piled two-levels high near the Valley of the Kings. They seem to date from the New Kingdom era, so "only" 3500 years old, and the outside paint still looks brand-new. More details will be released on Sunday.

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  • FiendishrabbitFiendishrabbit Registered User regular
    Now the only question is exactly how Zahi Hawass is going to try to claim all the credit for the discovery.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    Egypt archaeologists find 20 ancient coffins near Luxor

    _109253794_mediaitem109253793.jpg

    One of the largest finds of its kind, they dug up 20 sarcophagus piled two-levels high near the Valley of the Kings. They seem to date from the New Kingdom era, so "only" 3500 years old, and the outside paint still looks brand-new. More details will be released on Sunday.

    But are they teriyaki style?

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Now the only question is exactly how Zahi Hawass is going to try to claim all the credit for the discovery.

    Probably have a digger tape his business card inside one of the lids.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    Apparently, classical composer JS Bach was the original party animal:
    I’ve talked to people who feel they know Bach very well, but they aren’t aware of the time he was imprisoned for a month. They never learned about Bach pulling a knife on a fellow musician during a street fight. They never heard about his drinking exploits—on one two-week trip he billed the church eighteen groschen for beer, enough to purchase eight gallons of it at retail prices—or that his contract with the Duke of Saxony included a provision for tax-free beer from the castle brewery; or that he was accused of consorting with an unknown, unmarried woman in the organ loft; or had a reputation for ignoring assigned duties without explanation or apology. They don’t know about Bach’s sex life: at best a matter of speculation, but what should we conclude from his twenty known children, more than any significant composer in history (a procreative career that has led some to joke with a knowing wink that “Bach’s organ had no stops”), or his second marriage to twenty-year-old singer Anna Magdalena Wilcke, when he was in his late thirties? They don’t know about the constant disciplinary problems Bach caused, or his insolence to students, or the many other ways he found to flout authority. This is the Bach branded as “incorrigible” by the councilors in Leipzig, who grimly documented offense after offense committed by their stubborn and irascible employee.

    He was a modern rock star born several centuries early.

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Apparently, classical composer JS Bach was the original party animal:
    I’ve talked to people who feel they know Bach very well, but they aren’t aware of the time he was imprisoned for a month. They never learned about Bach pulling a knife on a fellow musician during a street fight. They never heard about his drinking exploits—on one two-week trip he billed the church eighteen groschen for beer, enough to purchase eight gallons of it at retail prices—or that his contract with the Duke of Saxony included a provision for tax-free beer from the castle brewery; or that he was accused of consorting with an unknown, unmarried woman in the organ loft; or had a reputation for ignoring assigned duties without explanation or apology. They don’t know about Bach’s sex life: at best a matter of speculation, but what should we conclude from his twenty known children, more than any significant composer in history (a procreative career that has led some to joke with a knowing wink that “Bach’s organ had no stops”), or his second marriage to twenty-year-old singer Anna Magdalena Wilcke, when he was in his late thirties? They don’t know about the constant disciplinary problems Bach caused, or his insolence to students, or the many other ways he found to flout authority. This is the Bach branded as “incorrigible” by the councilors in Leipzig, who grimly documented offense after offense committed by their stubborn and irascible employee.

    He was a modern rock star born several centuries early.

    Oh, yeah. Bach drank pretty much every day and more or less rode his first wife into an early grave due to pregnancy complications after the first 4 kids and she gave up the ghost after number 7. Course, he had 13 with his second wife Anna Magdalena, she seemed to be of heartier stock.

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  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    Twenty kids, I was expecting a cart load of mistresses.

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Twenty kids, I was expecting a cart load of mistresses.

    There's some estimates based on his personal correspondences and scuttlebutt from his trip to Brandenberg that he could have up to 3 or 4 by-blows, but as a devout Lutheran he stayed fairly loyal to his wives.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Twenty kids, I was expecting a cart load of mistresses.

    That we know about. Even kings dont have all their bastards known by historians

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  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Twenty kids, I was expecting a cart load of mistresses.

    That we know about. Even kings dont have all their bastards known by historians

    Even, or especially?

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  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Twenty kids, I was expecting a cart load of mistresses.

    That we know about. Even kings dont have all their bastards known by historians

    Chuck II of England had a nice round 14 bastards that he acknowledged while alive.

    Ghengis Khan being a genetic ancestor of between 1/8th to 1/5th of those of Central Asian decent is still the ultimate measuring stick.

    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
  • PolaritiePolaritie Sleepy Registered User regular
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Twenty kids, I was expecting a cart load of mistresses.

    That we know about. Even kings dont have all their bastards known by historians

    Chuck II of England had a nice round 14 bastards that he acknowledged while alive.

    Ghengis Khan being a genetic ancestor of between 1/8th to 1/5th of those of Central Asian decent is still the ultimate measuring stick.

    Some of that is a function of age though - the percentage increases each generation. Would be an interesting modeling problem.

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  • RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Polaritie wrote: »
    Goumindong wrote: »
    Krieghund wrote: »
    Twenty kids, I was expecting a cart load of mistresses.

    That we know about. Even kings dont have all their bastards known by historians

    Chuck II of England had a nice round 14 bastards that he acknowledged while alive.

    Ghengis Khan being a genetic ancestor of between 1/8th to 1/5th of those of Central Asian decent is still the ultimate measuring stick.

    Some of that is a function of age though - the percentage increases each generation. Would be an interesting modeling problem.

    I wonder, how many people are related to Charlemagne at this point?

    spool32 wrote:
    he pops this cobalt blue tetrahedron like he's thought of something. I'm like son, you know that's just a reskinned fireball, right?
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