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[Auto Chess] Drodo's Auto Chess, Dota Underlords, and Teamfight Tactics!

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    KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    edited May 2019
    So yeah, Drodo's Auto Chess Mobile is out in Open Beta. You can get it on the google playstore here.

    And here's a quick write-up. I played one game so far on my phone, and I gotta say it's pretty nice. It's hard to get used to the new names and models of the heroes, but it's 100% the same game with faster loading and a better interface since it's built for the game. Wait time took like 9 seconds, everyone loaded very quickly, and the time between rounds is very fast, so I'd expect to lose base on that alone for the first round or two.

    I'm trying it out on MEmu soon so I can stream it. I'll update on how that goes.

    Ran a ranked game on MEmu emulating Android 5 using a Samsung Galaxy Note 8 model, installed fine, played great, but it crashed once when we were getting into the later rounds. I was able to restart and reconnect while only missing a round, so it wasn't that bad, but I'll chalk that up to the app being in beta. There's a lot of optimizations and patch notes coming next week, but it seems like the updates from Dota 2 Auto Chess are a bit different than Drodo's Auto Chess Mobile. So keeping track of all the racial/class synergies is going to be kind of tough. For example, Knights are still 2/4 in the Mobile version, and Slark is still in there where we're missing the Gods. Maybe after it fully releases they'll do a version match update. Until then, kind of cool, but I would stick with Dota 2 Auto Chess until full release.

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    DracilDracil Registered User regular
    Well S1 already started so I feel like I might move over to mobile full-time now. Also had a perfect first ranked match against what I guess were literal newbies.
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    UrQuanLord88UrQuanLord88 Registered User regular
    I went back to play the mod version and I discovered so many new units and reworks. I'm so split between the two versions. On one hand, there's the relatively smooth mobile version. But on the other hand, there is Zeus/Ares/Sven/Winter Wyvern on live

    Also, I keep losing to previous patch metas on mobile! boo

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    DracilDracil Registered User regular
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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    played my first game of mobile autochess

    it's pretty good

    i don't think i'll play more of it

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    StupidStupid Newcastle, NSWRegistered User regular
    edited June 2019
    So I tried this out tonight.

    I played three games to the end and was the first to be knocked out all three times.

    Is there a tutorial or something? I have no idea what is going on! The beginners guide is pretty useless. I can usually win the first couple of rounds, but after that it goes downhill. I did manage to survive 16 rounds on my best attempt, but still not winning against anyone. Playing this feels like I'm the coach for an alien sports game that not only do I not know the rules, but the players have all sorts of crazy abilities that interact in ways that I don't understand. Very confusing.

    What am I missing?

    Stupid on

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    FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    First of all, playing more gets you used to what each of the pieces do. Most have their own strengths and weaknesses, but there are a few pieces that are notably stronger than others. Razor, Timbersaw, Chaos Knight, Shadow fiend are all notable in that they just do more damage than others. Terrorblade is similar, but requires items and good positioning to really work. Later on Kunkka, Medusa and Tidehunter are all strong since CC is good.

    Synergies are very important once you get to the midgame, past round 15 or so. Before that you would rather play good pieces, or whatever pieces you get upgrades for. Early on you should just grab whatever is strong and get some frontline+damage, and try to keep your options open. Some pieces fit better in many comps, while others kind of pigeonhole you. Tiny for example works with warriors, mages or assassins since the elemental tag makes him real tanky when paired with another elemental. Goblins are very versatile since you get a lot of tankiness from having 3 of them. See what combinations others are playing and try different things yourself.

    Early on you want to focus on getting upgrades, but not rerolling. Rerolling early is only worth it if you have 4 or more pairs, otherwise it's too expensive. Common combinations are mages+frontline, knights+dragons, goblins+damage/CC (goblins are insane earlygame, weak midgame and incredible lategame if you get all 6), hunters+frontline, assassins+frontline and pure warrior. There are of course way more ways to play than these, but they are some of the easier comps to build. Taking what you get is important, but most of the time you can aim for a composition and get there unless you get real unlucky. I often play assassins for example, as long as I can get 3 assassins early on ( assassin bonuses are based on 3/6 pieces). Sometimes I get real unlucky and don't see any of the 3* and above assassins for a long time, but I get to 50 gold with some kind of frontline of whatever 2* I get with three earlygame assassins as my main dps. Once I get above 50 and can start rerolling heavily I almost always eventually get to 6 assassins with treant/lone druid frontline.

    And that brings me to the most opaque part of the game, economy. Every 10 money you have until 50 gives +1 interest at the end of round. The goal is getting to 50+ as early as possible and rerolling/leveling up while keeping above that. Sometimes you want to sell pieces on your bench to get to the next interest treshold since you can just roll for them later if you have a good economy. But another huge part of economy is winstreaking/losestreaking. If you are winstreaking you get more gold after each win, going from +1 at 2 consecutive wins to +3 at 8 wins and onwards or so. If you are winstreaking you want to aggressively level/reroll to keep the streak going, getting +3 every round early will snowball your economy incredibly hard. But to keep winstreaking is always slightly luckbased, you can get screwed hard with rolls and fall behind due to bad luck. This brings us to losestreaking, which works identical to winstreaking except with losses. The goal with a bad start unitwise is often losing at least every round until 10, where you kill the creeps for items. Winning against creeps does not break a lose streak, so you can keep the money bonus and still get item drops. When losestreaking you want to avoid leveling and not buying pieces unless they fit your plan and whatever you will go for when you want to start winning. If you get a dazzle early (reduces damage taken from losing) you can losestreak to 15 while still being above 30% most of the time, which can set you up for a win if you can get a good comp going after that.

    The final important aspect of the game is positioning, but that mainly plays in for the lategame. Thinking about where your pieces stand in relation to the enemies can get very complicated and often decides games. The only real positioning thing to know early on is to keep your squshy high dps units in the back and tanky units up front. Assassins kind of mess this up and can force you to put one frontliner behind your backline to bait their jumps. The round 15 creeps are all assassins, and this for that round only you want to put your damage up front and your tanks behind.

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    KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Auto Chess Standalone coming to PC announced at the PC Games E3 Presser.

    It's Epic Store Exclusive, which kind of makes sense because Valve is making their own, and Dota 2 is on Steam for Auto Chess anyways.

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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    Riot also announced their own Auto Chess clone.

    This game does require playing it for a pretty good amount to really get what's going on; each game does have a rough cadence that you'll need to learn to read. One other aspect is deciding when to level. Experience comes 1/turn and each level past 4 comes out to a multiple of 4 experience to achieve. The ideal rounds to level on are 5, 9, and 17. It's usually best to skip leveling on round 12; level 6-7 only gives you a +3% chance to get a 4* unit and is usually not worth the gold that early. Past that, going to level 8/9/10 is more about your current board, economy, and health, but the levels that are on a multiple of 4 above 17 are ideal places to level (21, 25, 29, 33, 37).

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    CyrenicCyrenic Registered User regular
    Riot also announced their own Auto Chess clone.

    This game does require playing it for a pretty good amount to really get what's going on; each game does have a rough cadence that you'll need to learn to read. One other aspect is deciding when to level. Experience comes 1/turn and each level past 4 comes out to a multiple of 4 experience to achieve. The ideal rounds to level on are 5, 9, and 17. It's usually best to skip leveling on round 12; level 6-7 only gives you a +3% chance to get a 4* unit and is usually not worth the gold that early. Past that, going to level 8/9/10 is more about your current board, economy, and health, but the levels that are on a multiple of 4 above 17 are ideal places to level (21, 25, 29, 33, 37).

    Pretty excited about this. I'm interested in any big company throwing some weight behind a version of auto chess and I like the League characters so this is a slam dunk for me.

    Where'd you get that particular info? There's a lot of scattered information around (mostly from streamers who play tested and made videos). Scarra had a decent video but I haven't found many others talking about mechanics.

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    StupidStupid Newcastle, NSWRegistered User regular
    First, super thanks to @Frozenzen for the primer!

    I tried this again and I think this is just not a game for me. I finally came in third in a match but by the time it wasa down to the final three of us I had no clue what to do to be "better" than the other two players. In fact, even though I was winning many fights, I really couldn't tell you -why- I was winning. It feels completely random and inscrutable to me. I'm sure it's not and I'm just not "getting it" and that's fine. Not every game is for every player.


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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    Honestly I would say a huge barrier to the game is that a lot of good decisionmaking is borderline invisible, once you get past obvious ones like "race/class bonuses are very good!"

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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    Cyrenic wrote: »
    Riot also announced their own Auto Chess clone.

    This game does require playing it for a pretty good amount to really get what's going on; each game does have a rough cadence that you'll need to learn to read. One other aspect is deciding when to level. Experience comes 1/turn and each level past 4 comes out to a multiple of 4 experience to achieve. The ideal rounds to level on are 5, 9, and 17. It's usually best to skip leveling on round 12; level 6-7 only gives you a +3% chance to get a 4* unit and is usually not worth the gold that early. Past that, going to level 8/9/10 is more about your current board, economy, and health, but the levels that are on a multiple of 4 above 17 are ideal places to level (21, 25, 29, 33, 37).

    Pretty excited about this. I'm interested in any big company throwing some weight behind a version of auto chess and I like the League characters so this is a slam dunk for me.

    Where'd you get that particular info? There's a lot of scattered information around (mostly from streamers who play tested and made videos). Scarra had a decent video but I haven't found many others talking about mechanics.

    Sorry; the second bit wasn't related to League autochess; it was just additional newbie advice for Dota Auto Chess.

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    411Randle411Randle Librarian Oook.Registered User regular
    Came back to this game after some time away and completely forgot any strategies that work.

    Finally realized that if you can get them, druids still work. Thank god, that's an easy one

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    HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    Mages/Dragons is a fun combo. That is all.

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    UrQuanLord88UrQuanLord88 Registered User regular
    the mobile version needs to get up to the latest mod version. The current mod version just has more combinations, which makes late game more interesting because positioning matters more at that point

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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    I feel this game was a flash in the pan, and most people went back to their old YouTube/Twitch games after a month. But publishers just HAVE to chase that trend, so I guess we’ll be seeing a lot of cancellation news in like six months.

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    Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    autochess on dota 2 alone has 80 thousand people playing right now. would put it at the 4th most popular game on steam.

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    PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    I assume that there's a bit of uncertainty in the air with all the announcements.

    What with four different versions that you're going to be able to play. (The DOTA Mod, the mobile standalone, PC Standalone, the Riot version.)

    Wouldn't be surprised if some people are waiting for everything to shake out before they go hard on one again.

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    CyrenicCyrenic Registered User regular
    Sterica wrote: »
    I feel this game was a flash in the pan, and most people went back to their old YouTube/Twitch games after a month. But publishers just HAVE to chase that trend, so I guess we’ll be seeing a lot of cancellation news in like six months.

    I could see this genre/subgenre having some legs. If an unpolished mod could get hundreds of thousands of players like Dota Autochess did, a more polished and accessible version could do much better. Sure some of these new versions will end up getting canceled but I think someone's going to make a version of the game that keeps a big player base for a year or two.

    Auto chess does a lot of interesting things but probably the biggest draw is how it improves common GACHA mechanics. Instead of predatory, pay to win micro transactions; auto chess makes GACHA rolling into something actually fun and competitive. There's a lot of room to make the game design better, too. Even if these first spin offs don't do too well I think some developer's going to make a more accessible version of the game and make a lot of money off it.

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    DracilDracil Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    I feel the DOTA mod is effectively a dead game walking at this point. Once the EGS version and Valve version come out there's pretty much no reason for Drodo to support it anymore.

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    schussschuss Registered User regular
    It's a great archetype for just chilling out and playing. There's no real skill floor to use, the game is pretty readable as you experiment, losses are pretty quick early (get more games in, try more things), and RNG and structure make it pretty newbie friendly as a pro generally can't fully dumpster everyone to the point they don't have fun.

    It's also highly conducive to watching other stuff while you play if you're one of those split attention people like me.

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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    Riot has some interesting ideas for sanding off the edges of the dota 2 mod; I'm particularly intrigued by the carousel round as a catch-up mechanic. Periodically during the game, there will be a buying round where a shared pool of powerful units are made available for purchase, with players drafting from that pool in reverse order of the standings.

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    UrQuanLord88UrQuanLord88 Registered User regular
    Dracil wrote: »
    I feel the DOTA mod is effectively a dead game walking at this point. Once the EGS version and Valve version come out there's pretty much no reason for Drodo to support it anymore.

    it can probably be used to beta test stuff, just like how the dota mod in WC3 is/was still being updated AFAIK.

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    KoopahTroopahKoopahTroopah The koopas, the troopas. Philadelphia, PARegistered User regular
    Oh. Underlords is in closed beta. If you have the Dota 2 Battle Pass you can play it right now, but they're going to open it up to open beta later next week. Here's Kripp talking about it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Mle4rbaog

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    CyrenicCyrenic Registered User regular
    I'm loving the implicit competition between the 3 auto chess games right now and I hope it makes each one better.

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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    well, the races are on i guess

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    UrQuanLord88UrQuanLord88 Registered User regular
    Underlords UI looks bad, definitely seems like a mobile port
    I can't believe they didn't keep the character models with the same fidelity as the actual game. I mean, think of all the customization options
    everything else seems ok, we'll have to wait for Riot's version

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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    honestly, i think the game might just be early enough in alpha that they haven't done anything to differentiate UIs between target platforms yet

    and you make the mobile one first because if you make the PC one first your mobile game is unplayable, while if you start with the mobile one your PC game is just clunky

    similarly, i'm guessing that they built the game in something different from Source entirely so they could seamlessly build mobile/desktop versions, which is why the models all are different

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    November FifthNovember Fifth Registered User regular
    Sterica wrote: »
    I feel this game was a flash in the pan, and most people went back to their old YouTube/Twitch games after a month. But publishers just HAVE to chase that trend, so I guess we’ll be seeing a lot of cancellation news in like six months.

    I kinda agree with this, but the dev costs have to be next to nothing. Same engine, same models, same animations, etc.

    It probably makes sense just as a mobile game that MOBA fans can play on the go.

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    FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    Sterica wrote: »
    I feel this game was a flash in the pan, and most people went back to their old YouTube/Twitch games after a month. But publishers just HAVE to chase that trend, so I guess we’ll be seeing a lot of cancellation news in like six months.

    I kinda agree with this, but the dev costs have to be next to nothing. Same engine, same models, same animations, etc.

    It probably makes sense just as a mobile game that MOBA fans can play on the go.

    I mean, the dota version of auto chess is seeing 50-100k playing whenever I pop on for a game. It certainly seems to have a decent population.

    I am curious about the other versions of the game and what they will try to be different. The league one is likely to be pretty boring unless they make abilities way stronger than they are ingame.

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    PeewiPeewi Registered User regular
    honestly, i think the game might just be early enough in alpha that they haven't done anything to differentiate UIs between target platforms yet

    and you make the mobile one first because if you make the PC one first your mobile game is unplayable, while if you start with the mobile one your PC game is just clunky

    similarly, i'm guessing that they built the game in something different from Source entirely so they could seamlessly build mobile/desktop versions, which is why the models all are different

    I'm pretty sure it's on Source 2. They were already working on a mobile version of Source 2 for Artifact before that came out and flopped.

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    UrQuanLord88UrQuanLord88 Registered User regular
    edited June 2019
    Just a note on the meta of Underlords:
    - Drow is absolutely OP in this version. Giving her a passive damage increase that affects adjacent allies + Heartless -armor bonus + Hunter chainshot bonus makes her damage output kinda disgusting and almost a must have piece
    - Likewise, Medusa somehow manages to retain multishot on top of all her other racial/abilities and so is very much stronger now
    - Hunter combo is really too good. I think it probably has something to do with all the items you can get that relies on % chance proc
    - QoP is really weak. It seems like her mana generation is much lower in this version. In fact, most demons seem to be weaker than their AutoChess counterparts
    - Goblin/Mechs seem untouched
    - Seems like a lot of the late game CC options like Tide/Kunkka/Disruptor have their mana generation reigned in, which makes other CC (Humans/Witch Doctor) that much stronger
    - Druids seem pretty strong especially with the new racial item
    - Trolls seem pretty lackluster
    - Knights racial is also nerfed since it requires your Knights to be adjacent
    - Radiance on my frontline Techies gave half of his MP bar on the first tick
    - Razor's/Gyrocopter's AoE radius seems very small
    - Income seems to be calculated at the start of battle, which means you can't make any last minute sales to get additional round income. Lame!

    I like the guarantee of item choices after a neutral round but I also miss the ability to craft items. Even with all the similarities, just changing a couple of units/items/attributes makes the game so different. This only means that the design space for this kind of game is still pretty wide open. The dota2 version of Auto Chess seems to be the best version for now in terms of gameplay and player choice but who knows what will happen in the future.

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    SpawnbrokerSpawnbroker Registered User regular
    I played Underlords a good bit last night. As a complete auto chess newbie, I found it pretty fun, if a bit confusing! I had no idea what to build for the first few games.

    Last game, I lucked in to Scrappy + Inventors and realized I was doing a lot of damage and got 3 mages for the negative magic resist debuff. Then I finished it off with 3 dragons and wew boy, that was a good combo! I easily manhandled my competition.

    Yeah, the UI is clearly mobile first here, but that's fine. This looks like it's just out of alpha, it's pretty rough in a lot of ways. But the basics are here and it's fun!

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    UrQuanLord88UrQuanLord88 Registered User regular
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    StericaSterica Yes Registered User, Moderator mod
    Peewi wrote: »
    honestly, i think the game might just be early enough in alpha that they haven't done anything to differentiate UIs between target platforms yet

    and you make the mobile one first because if you make the PC one first your mobile game is unplayable, while if you start with the mobile one your PC game is just clunky

    similarly, i'm guessing that they built the game in something different from Source entirely so they could seamlessly build mobile/desktop versions, which is why the models all are different
    I'm pretty sure it's on Source 2. They were already working on a mobile version of Source 2 for Artifact before that came out and flopped.
    This would imply Valve is working on games for reasons besides selling us micro transactions, so I have to assume it’s false.

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    schussschuss Registered User regular
    Some ui updates to underlords this morning that make it much better. I like it, though it needs more effects/cosmetics as it's not that readable at the moment for different levels

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    gigawatt666gigawatt666 Registered User regular
    I......can’t.......stop.........playing: Underlords....help......

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    RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    Ok I tried this. It was weird, but fun. Looking forward to Riots version as I know the characters more. I had no clue what I was doing or what characters did. I managed to not come in last in my second game!

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    RickRudeRickRude Registered User regular
    I've read through this whole thread before playing. So I had no clue what I was reading about lol. Maybe I need to read it. all again, but basically, how do I not suck at this? I keep thinking I get it but I'm doing bad

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