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[Overwatch] Workshop now included.

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Posts

  • SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    It doesn't really apply to us plebs, but it's been funny seeing people getting focused down through trance in OWL. Maybe all the moar deeps patches weren't the best idea

    Nah that's just good focus fire. Trance shouldn't be able to stop 6 players from killing 1.

    KanaBionicPenguin
  • mightyjongyomightyjongyo Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Apparently if Mei walls under herself or an ally, she takes less damage after the fall.

    ...must test.

    I do know that if true this is almost definitely a bug. Jeff and the other dev folks on Seagull's reveal stream were pretty clear on you taking exactly 50% of max health, no way to boost or mitigate (although it can be canceled with escape/nullify abilities like ice block, bubble, fade, fortify, etc.)

    If Mei wall is reducing damage I'm like 90% sure that's not supposed to be happening

    Was it a bug? My recollection is that if they manage to float to the high ground they don't take the 50% fall damage. Therefore, the mei wall mitigation is not a bug since it stops you from falling the whole way.

    There was that bug with the bots in PTR where they died instantly when they got lifted, though.

  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Apparently if Mei walls under herself or an ally, she takes less damage after the fall.

    ...must test.

    I do know that if true this is almost definitely a bug. Jeff and the other dev folks on Seagull's reveal stream were pretty clear on you taking exactly 50% of max health, no way to boost or mitigate (although it can be canceled with escape/nullify abilities like ice block, bubble, fade, fortify, etc.)

    If Mei wall is reducing damage I'm like 90% sure that's not supposed to be happening

    Was it a bug? My recollection is that if they manage to float to the high ground they don't take the 50% fall damage. Therefore, the mei wall mitigation is not a bug since it stops you from falling the whole way.

    There was that bug with the bots in PTR where they died instantly when they got lifted, though.

    I'm assuming that's a bug too, since they were pretty specific about taking exactly 50% damage, with no qualifications or mitigating factors. There aren't any other instances of environmental damage mitigation in the game, and it just feels out of step with Blizzard's general design philosophy. Mechanics in Overwatch are generally pretty cut and dried. Which isn't to say they're simple or straightforward, but the "if -> then" process is usually pretty all or nothing (let's ignore the mystery of Rein's ult hitbox for now).

    If relative height can mitigate damage, then the ult damage becomes a calculation of starting height versus ending height. And the game has more than just high ground/low ground so there'd be a lot of potential variation, at which point the "50% health" may as well go out the window, and I don't think that's what Blizzard intended with him.

    I could be totally wrong and it could be intentional, or it could be unintentional but they'll decide to keep it. But my gut says it's not how Blizzard wants it to work and it'll get changed at some point (but it's kind of an edge case so it might not happen for a while).

  • sanstodosanstodo Registered User regular
    Rather than compare numbers to teammates, the stats in game should compare to role on the other team. That way, players can contextualize when they're underperforming in the relevant context.

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    So am I crazy or is Baptiste maybe too much as a healer? He can reliably heal a TON from a long distance due to the splash from his healing, and it's not hard to slap that immortality field down behind obstacles that block it from getting shot up easily. On top of that, he can get to awesome spots with that crazy jump of his, letting him protect safely from a million miles away while still being able to pop people with his rifle.

    I love the toolset for the guy, just seems like there are a number of places that really really favor him, maybe too heavily.

  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    edited August 24
    Just started playing again, first time since they put in role queue...

    ...ugh. Please tell me they're going to declare this a failed experiment and undo it at the end of the season? I get the feeling they won't though...

    I don't get why they put it in in the first place, other than to satisfy players with only the most superficial understanding of the bad teammate problem. You don't need a constant 2/2/2 to perform best (no pro player would ever tell you 2/2/2 is always the ideal setup), you need roles for the present situation and players who actually fulfill them. A Moira who never heals isn't a healer. A Rein who never shields isn't a tank. A Widow who can't hit anything is a wasted slot. If you had a weak link on your team who refused to switch, you needed a flex to switch and pick up their slack. The locked queue doesn't stop bad players who never switch, it only stops flexes from doing their best to fix the situation.

    Like my last match where the enemy team was triple shield and our 2 dps refused to switch off of McCree and Ashe. In a case like that, it was the right call to drop a tank or support for a 3rd shield-busting dps.

    About the only positive thing I can say about role queue is that if you get bad luck during your placement matches, you can now abandon that role for the season and try fresh placement matches in the other roles (but even that locks you out of a role for the entire season).

    MrBody on
    BRIAN BLESSEDPhoenix-D
  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    Lol thanks blizzard
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    N4ay4HD.jpg

  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat Brave Sir Robin Registered User regular
    MrBody wrote: »
    Just started playing again, first time since they put in role queue...

    ...ugh. Please tell me they're going to declare this a failed experiment and undo it at the end of the season? I get the feeling they won't though...

    I don't get why they put it in in the first place, other than to satisfy players with only the most superficial understanding of the bad teammate problem. You don't need a constant 2/2/2 to perform best (no pro player would ever tell you 2/2/2 is always the ideal setup)

    This was exactly the issue. There was no reason to run less than 3 tanks and they couldn't figure out how to balance that, so they tossed a hard limit on it. That 2/1/3 got caught is the crossfire is unfortunate, but goats had been around too long and had to be dealt with.

    Losing flexing to deal with underperformers is also a negative, but I've always said this game is great in a 4+ stack you can rely on and awful otherwise and that still holds up.

    3clipse wrote: »
    God is dead and life has no purpose.
  • jammujammu Never-Ending, Never Alone Registered User regular
    Pro-players hated the neverending goats meta.

    DPS-players complained about being in Brig-jail, because that's all they were good for, even if they were the best headclickers in the world.

    Ww8FAMg.jpg
  • Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    Yeah the reason for 222 isn't that it's necessarily the best comp, it's just the most stable and consistent comp and it makes it easier to balance (in theory).

    Like I say every time it comes up, for me what you gain thanks to role queue/role lock is waaaay more meaningful and valuable than what you lose. It sucks that some people get caught in the crossfire due to their preferred playstyle, and hopefully some of the longer queue times I've seen get sorted out by the time it's out of beta, but for me personally queue is an extremely welcome addition. And there's no way they revert it, they spent like a full year on it and if they weren't committed to it they wouldn't have pushed it to public testing. They don't even revert minor character tweaks, role queue isn't going anywhere.

  • jammujammu Never-Ending, Never Alone Registered User regular
    Public service announcement:

    Mystery deathmatch is the best game mode.

    Ww8FAMg.jpg
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    MrBody wrote: »
    Just started playing again, first time since they put in role queue...

    ...ugh. Please tell me they're going to declare this a failed experiment and undo it at the end of the season? I get the feeling they won't though...

    I don't get why they put it in in the first place, other than to satisfy players with only the most superficial understanding of the bad teammate problem. You don't need a constant 2/2/2 to perform best (no pro player would ever tell you 2/2/2 is always the ideal setup)

    This was exactly the issue. There was no reason to run less than 3 tanks and they couldn't figure out how to balance that, so they tossed a hard limit on it. That 2/1/3 got caught is the crossfire is unfortunate, but goats had been around too long and had to be dealt with.

    Losing flexing to deal with underperformers is also a negative, but I've always said this game is great in a 4+ stack you can rely on and awful otherwise and that still holds up.

    I've been finding match results to be enormously more stable now that there's simply zero options for bad DPS players to poison teams by being third or fourth DPS instead of tank or healer. Overcoming one crappy Widow is waaaaaay more doable than overcoming a crappy Widow plus a crappy Genji plus a crappy Tracer.

    As somebody who almost exclusively plays tank or healer, it's the biggest improvement to the game I've seen in a long while. There's usually something I can do to shore up one bad DPS play as tank or healer.

  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited August 24
    There are so many other benefits of 2-2-2 besides killing GOATS, and we've discussed it so many times I don't want to go over them again, but be sure to watch Jeff's video about it. He provides a lot of good reasons and never references a desire to control the meta.

    Zek on
    SirToasty
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    The "it made pro tournaments boring with GOATS" is yet more "balance the entire game around the top 1%" mentality that leaves the overwhelming majority of players in the dust.
    I've been finding match results to be enormously more stable now that there's simply zero options for bad DPS players to poison teams by being third or fourth DPS instead of tank or healer. Overcoming one crappy Widow is waaaaaay more doable than overcoming a crappy Widow plus a crappy Genji plus a crappy Tracer.

    Games where you happen to get 3 or 4 hopeless, no-switch dps were way more rare than getting 2 hopeless, no-switch dps. Now we have 2 guaranteed no-switch dps, no one else can cover for them, and the poison dps players are never going to queue for anything else thanks to good old Dunner-Kruger. You just can't recover from all your dps being terrible (at sub-GOATS level play) and the locked role queue just means there's only 2 slots that terrible dps players have to clog up to sink a team rather than 3.

    BRIAN BLESSED
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    I keep focusing Sigma, just because he doesn't look like a tank. He's by far the smallest tank and I keep mistaking him for some crazy skinned Zenyatta.

  • CoinageCoinage The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter Registered User regular
    edited August 24
    If your dps is bad, eventually you won't be matched with them anymore because the game can actually know that they're bad at dps. Unless...you're bad too

    Coinage on
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    KamarjammuThe Escape GoatKanaBionicPenguinDevoutlyApatheticKoopahTroopah
  • ZekZek Registered User regular
    Nobody's been left in the dust, as a pub player I vastly prefer 2-2-2 and that's why I'm playing the game again now.

    Kana
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited August 24
    Hmm...I played a bit of role queue beta but went to player match for a while cause I don't have a mic and I hate playing ranked without one.

    Going from the 2-2-2 environment then back to the old environment and I am now certain that I much prefer 2-2-2.

    The only think I will miss is the Hammond Hyper Dive but who know they maybe could release a tank that pairs well with him in the future.

    Dragkonias on
  • CoinageCoinage The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter Registered User regular
    MrBody wrote: »
    I keep focusing Sigma, just because he doesn't look like a tank. He's by far the smallest tank and I keep mistaking him for some crazy skinned Zenyatta.
    That's a funny comparison since Zen has a crazy huge hitbox. I'm pretty sure Sigma's hitbox is big too

    l5pfwe2qivac.jpg
  • SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    edited August 24
    Coinage wrote: »
    MrBody wrote: »
    I keep focusing Sigma, just because he doesn't look like a tank. He's by far the smallest tank and I keep mistaking him for some crazy skinned Zenyatta.
    That's a funny comparison since Zen has a crazy huge hitbox. I'm pretty sure Sigma's hitbox is big too

    Yeah Sigma is enormous. He is the tallest character in the game.

    SirToasty on
  • SirToastySirToasty Registered User regular
    We've been over the discussion on 2-2-2 a lot and if the only reason you think it happened was because of OWL then you are super off base.

    KanaNobodymightyjongyoBionicPenguin
  • MrBodyMrBody Registered User regular
    Sorry I wasn't around for a discussion you had months ago?

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    I mean 2-2-2 has been a greater community discussion for like...at least 1-2 years at this point.

    KanaSirToastymightyjongyo
This discussion has been closed.