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Posts

  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited July 9
    Chance wrote: »
    Hmmm so Vs. a headshotting Widow, this Theoretical Supersombra has 800 effective HP. I'm not sure I like that. Theoretical Supersombra is out here tanking Rip-Tires and D.Va bombs with her sassy refraction, laughing at Reinhardts as they charge her into walls, and here I am on Tracer blowing my all-important 12-sec Recall cooldown just to stay in the fight (when not simply getting instagibbed by a single Mei icicle). And McCree's over there in the corner just sobbing, brushing the hair on a doll called "Combat Roll" and insisting it's still pretty.

    Will no one think of McCree?

    Also since when is Sombra's TTK so high that she can't kill an enemy sniper in a second? As I recall it takes 3.5 seconds for Sombra to empty her clip, Sombra's clip is so ample she can headshot 4 squishies to death before she has to reload, so that's around 0.85 seconds to kill a Widow or Hanzo with theoretically perfect aim - quick enough that the Sniper only has a half second or less to react, which is a narrow but reasonable band of counterplay.

    Third, while I like the idea of Hack getting nerfed in any direction, part of the reason for its duration is you need to give a moment for Sombra to declare "Hog hacked!" and for her team to pile on. If the hack lasts 2 seconds, the team will hear about the hack around the time it expires. Sombra's mobility is second only to Hammond, she's profoundly survivable compared to any other DPS not named Mei and has one the single best ults in the game which also happens to be incredibly quick to charge - I'm not sure we need to give her a hugely powerful defensive ability, even at an expense to Hack's effectiveness.

    Sombra: "All I can do is turn invisible and easily access high ground whenever I want and burn through over 800 HP with a single clip of my SMG - I definitely need a buff to help me deal with snipers!"

    The Entire Rest of the Cast, specifically the 50% with zero vertical mobility: "Omg stfu."

    Also I love Fitzy. I think I watch him more than any other streamer. Him & Harb are so positive, I love 'em. Fitzy's over here explaining that he plays Overwatch 'cause it's a great game and he loves it, meanwhile Wraxu is putting out videos explaining that he doesn't understand why anyone would ever play Overwatch if they weren't getting paid for it because it's just shitty shitty shit.

    Fitzy rocks.

    Is it the numbers you have a problem with or the idea?

    Hey if the numbers are too much you can tinker with the numbers. Personally, I think you're assuming that the enemy Widow is dumb as rocks - like a Widow with a brain would shoot a burst or two with her SMG and then go back to looking for a one-shot, and I don't think it's a bad thing on the higher end that you're basically increasing the TTK for a Widow against just one more squishy besides the samll handful of options that exist so far - but ok, it's a fair point, some heroes really will struggle to push out 4 damage instances. Like poor Rein. I'm assuming a Zarya offtank, but ok, Reins like to feel like pain trains not clown cars. So just make it two instances. That way Hanzo can also flick on his stormbow and still have a chance instead of wasting 80% of it just to burn the refraction charges. Make each refraction charge worth 2 seconds of hack instead of 1. She's still anti-sniper and anti-one-shot generally, but not insane.

    And if others worry that maybe she loses too much of Hack's value too quickly, keep the max duration at 6 but reduce the duration-loss per charge. So maybe 3 or 4 seconds is the minimum on a Hack. Because yeah, maybe 2 seconds is unfairly low, but if you needed all 6 seconds on a Hack or EMP to secure a kill, you didn't really deserve the kill. One of the problems with Sombra is that the difference between a Hack that gets off and a Hack that doesn't is so very massive. So let's let players mitigate the strength (duration) of Hack and we can start balancing the game around the idea that hacks will happen and that's ok.

    Also yeah, Fitzy's a fun guy.

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
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    Chance
  • CoinageCoinage The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter Registered User regular
    If you interrupt Hack, Sombra just dies

    l5pfwe2qivac.jpg
    Chance
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Musicool wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Hmmm so Vs. a headshotting Widow, this Theoretical Supersombra has 800 effective HP. I'm not sure I like that. Theoretical Supersombra is out here tanking Rip-Tires and D.Va bombs with her sassy refraction, laughing at Reinhardts as they charge her into walls, and here I am on Tracer blowing my all-important 12-sec Recall cooldown just to stay in the fight (when not simply getting instagibbed by a single Mei icicle). And McCree's over there in the corner just sobbing, brushing the hair on a doll called "Combat Roll" and insisting it's still pretty.

    Will no one think of McCree?

    Also since when is Sombra's TTK so high that she can't kill an enemy sniper in a second? As I recall it takes 3.5 seconds for Sombra to empty her clip, Sombra's clip is so ample she can headshot 4 squishies to death before she has to reload, so that's around 0.85 seconds to kill a Widow or Hanzo with theoretically perfect aim - quick enough that the Sniper only has a half second or less to react, which is a narrow but reasonable band of counterplay.

    Third, while I like the idea of Hack getting nerfed in any direction, part of the reason for its duration is you need to give a moment for Sombra to declare "Hog hacked!" and for her team to pile on. If the hack lasts 2 seconds, the team will hear about the hack around the time it expires. Sombra's mobility is second only to Hammond, she's profoundly survivable compared to any other DPS not named Mei and has one the single best ults in the game which also happens to be incredibly quick to charge - I'm not sure we need to give her a hugely powerful defensive ability, even at an expense to Hack's effectiveness.

    Sombra: "All I can do is turn invisible and easily access high ground whenever I want and burn through over 800 HP with a single clip of my SMG - I definitely need a buff to help me deal with snipers!"

    The Entire Rest of the Cast, specifically the 50% with zero vertical mobility: "Omg stfu."

    Also I love Fitzy. I think I watch him more than any other streamer. Him & Harb are so positive, I love 'em. Fitzy's over here explaining that he plays Overwatch 'cause it's a great game and he loves it, meanwhile Wraxu is putting out videos explaining that he doesn't understand why anyone would ever play Overwatch if they weren't getting paid for it because it's just shitty shitty shit.

    Fitzy rocks.

    Is it the numbers you have a problem with or the idea?

    I think it's the idea. Sombra is very popular and sees consistent plays at all ranks (doesn't she?) off the strength of EMP alone. She's incredibly flexible compared to other DPS and other flankers, and in no way, shape or form needs a survivability buff. And yeah a Widow who understands will turn and spray her with the SMG, but it's still a survivability buff to the only DPS whose survivability already rivals Mei's and a hugely powerful ability when you consider burst damage ults, Rein pins, tank Bastion shots...

    Like imagine being that Hanzo or Widow. You hear the Sombra uncloak behind you, whip around and loose a perfect headshot through her dome but ohhhh nooo you landed a perfect headshot on that one DPS hero who can survive four of them in a row before she teleports back to a health pack - why didn't you outplay her with your Storm Arrow, Hanzo? Yeah you were mechanically perfect but you didn't read the small print.

    That's cold.

    Nah, man. Sombra doesn't need a buff in that direction. Or maybe any direction. Her gun is still undervalued, hack is frankly an OP skill in general in a game that's all about hero abilities and Sombra is very, very rarely caught out and just screwed like a low-mobility hero is.

    The very thought that she needs some supershield that can eat a Widow headshot or a D.Va's ult is... yeah I got a problem with that lol. Nobody was talking about how bad Tracer needed buffs when Brig 1.0 was curbstomping me all over Junkertown or when Brig's continued existence unceremoniously ejected me completely from the meta.

    I got 150 HP and you wanna' give her four free spins. Fuuuuck that lol

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited July 9
    Chance wrote: »
    Musicool wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Hmmm so Vs. a headshotting Widow, this Theoretical Supersombra has 800 effective HP. I'm not sure I like that. Theoretical Supersombra is out here tanking Rip-Tires and D.Va bombs with her sassy refraction, laughing at Reinhardts as they charge her into walls, and here I am on Tracer blowing my all-important 12-sec Recall cooldown just to stay in the fight (when not simply getting instagibbed by a single Mei icicle). And McCree's over there in the corner just sobbing, brushing the hair on a doll called "Combat Roll" and insisting it's still pretty.

    Will no one think of McCree?

    Also since when is Sombra's TTK so high that she can't kill an enemy sniper in a second? As I recall it takes 3.5 seconds for Sombra to empty her clip, Sombra's clip is so ample she can headshot 4 squishies to death before she has to reload, so that's around 0.85 seconds to kill a Widow or Hanzo with theoretically perfect aim - quick enough that the Sniper only has a half second or less to react, which is a narrow but reasonable band of counterplay.

    Third, while I like the idea of Hack getting nerfed in any direction, part of the reason for its duration is you need to give a moment for Sombra to declare "Hog hacked!" and for her team to pile on. If the hack lasts 2 seconds, the team will hear about the hack around the time it expires. Sombra's mobility is second only to Hammond, she's profoundly survivable compared to any other DPS not named Mei and has one the single best ults in the game which also happens to be incredibly quick to charge - I'm not sure we need to give her a hugely powerful defensive ability, even at an expense to Hack's effectiveness.

    Sombra: "All I can do is turn invisible and easily access high ground whenever I want and burn through over 800 HP with a single clip of my SMG - I definitely need a buff to help me deal with snipers!"

    The Entire Rest of the Cast, specifically the 50% with zero vertical mobility: "Omg stfu."

    Also I love Fitzy. I think I watch him more than any other streamer. Him & Harb are so positive, I love 'em. Fitzy's over here explaining that he plays Overwatch 'cause it's a great game and he loves it, meanwhile Wraxu is putting out videos explaining that he doesn't understand why anyone would ever play Overwatch if they weren't getting paid for it because it's just shitty shitty shit.

    Fitzy rocks.

    Is it the numbers you have a problem with or the idea?

    I think it's the idea. Sombra is very popular and sees consistent plays at all ranks (doesn't she?) off the strength of EMP alone. She's incredibly flexible compared to other DPS and other flankers, and in no way, shape or form needs a survivability buff. And yeah a Widow who understands will turn and spray her with the SMG, but it's still a survivability buff to the only DPS whose survivability already rivals Mei's and a hugely powerful ability when you consider burst damage ults, Rein pins, tank Bastion shots...

    Like imagine being that Hanzo or Widow. You hear the Sombra uncloak behind you, whip around and loose a perfect headshot through her dome but ohhhh nooo you landed a perfect headshot on that one DPS hero who can survive four of them in a row before she teleports back to a health pack - why didn't you outplay her with your Storm Arrow, Hanzo? Yeah you were mechanically perfect but you didn't read the small print.

    That's cold.

    Nah, man. Sombra doesn't need a buff in that direction. Or maybe any direction. Her gun is still undervalued, hack is frankly an OP skill in general in a game that's all about hero abilities and Sombra is very, very rarely caught out and just screwed like a low-mobility hero is.

    The very thought that she needs some supershield that can eat a Widow headshot or a D.Va's ult is... yeah I got a problem with that lol. Nobody was talking about how bad Tracer needed buffs when Brig 1.0 was curbstomping me all over Junkertown or when Brig's continued existence unceremoniously ejected me completely from the meta.

    I got 150 HP and you wanna' give her four free spins. Fuuuuck that lol

    I have a ton of problems with your analogy. But just to pick one.

    Imagine you're that Widow and you hear the uncloak.

    And you turn around and headshot her.

    Then you've already proved that you're a fucking idiot with nothing but great aim, because your response should have been to turn around and blast her with an SMG burst. To cancel the hack, and to reduce her maximum hack, two seconds later at best, to two seconds. Then you grapple away because you cancelled her hack.

    What you've done, bys howing the slightest good sense, is made the game mote interactive than in the current game where you could just have whipped round and headshot the Sombra. And this is a legit complaint that the best players have with Widow: nothing you do counters the fact that she can just click your head.

    This is kinda the root of the problem I have with discussing balance in this game. People often mistake scenarios where they shot real good but didn't think very hard with "I must have deserved the win then!"

    Sorry to imply the you're stupid Chance. I don't mean that. I just don't think you thought this particular scenario through. I think that a Widow would be fine in this scenario. I could be wrong, but I think the meta would reshape around the idea that a Widow has to burst fire and THEN scope a Sombra, which would change things in nice ways.

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
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    Chance
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    I've thought it through in various directions and Vs. various heroes beyond Widowmaker. Sombra is suddenly a Hard Counter to Junkrat and an even-harder counter to Doomfist, Ashe gets to burn a full quarter of her clip or have Coach Gun of CD before she can begin doing meaningful damage to this Sombra, Hanzo had better have Storm Arrow off cooldown or he's just screwed, and Sombra's sitting on the point doing her adorable Sombra shuffle while Riptires blow up in her face and Doomfists Meteor Strike on top of her and that's somehow good balance?

    I disagree lol. I do. If you want a hero who can just absorb 4 damage sources, you've started building a tank. If you then want to let them teleport, remove enemy abilities, lock out enemy abilities from an entire team while disabling all barriers and turrets, see low-health enemies through walls, turn invisible and run twice as fast as anyone else in the game, I'm gonna' suggest your hero might be a bit overtuned, and requires some more time on the PTR.

    This specific buff is crazyballs. And I feel like you're trying to convince me it's not a buff because it damages the effectiveness of Hack. Damaging Sombra already stops her from hacking, and that damage reduces the Sombra's life bar - which is a meaningful consideration when a flanker is jumping you - especially one you can expect to safely teleport away if you don't kill her within 1 second. With this buff, we instead get the opportunity to damage her hack while her hit points remain unaffected - but she just gets to shoot us in the face and enjoys the luxury of it actually depleting our hit points without the built-in downsides of a tank's massive hit box or reduced immobility.

    Sombra's kit is already pretty ridiculous, and you want to give her a low-grade version of Genji's deflect, except it's effective Vs. AoE damage and damage coming from behind.

    I like the idea of Hack being a skillshot. I don't think it should be hitscan - it should be a delay-fire projectile like Ana's sleep dart.

    Bam. Fixed. Sombra can only land it with high skill or good positioning, enemies don't have to feel shitty about being hacked around corners or through walls and we can actually let it go on cooldown when she whiffs it, but it doesn't allow a (nearly) full second for an enemy to react, allowing the Sombra to hack a sniper and instantly transition to damage.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    BionicPenguinmightyjongyoMusicoolmiscellaneousinsanityjoshofalltradesKwoaru
  • CoinageCoinage The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter Registered User regular
    edited July 9
    Sombra rework:
    E is now EMP on a 30 second cooldown with the radius of concussion mine.
    Q has no cooldown and translocates back to spawn.

    Coinage on
    l5pfwe2qivac.jpg
    Chance
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Musicool wrote: »
    Sorry to imply the you're stupid Chance. I don't mean that.

    I didn't even see an implication of that, s'all good, Baby.
    Musicool wrote: »
    I just don't think you thought this particular scenario through. I think that a Widow would be fine in this scenario. I could be wrong, but I think the meta would reshape around the idea that a Widow has to burst fire and THEN scope a Sombra, which would change things in nice ways.

    I think I have lol. Widow would be the strongest of the snipers against this new Sombra, but that doesn't mean Sombra needs this buff at all. Or any buff. My God she already hard-counters Zen on a normal day and now Zen has to have volley 80% charged before she appears or he's gotta' wait 2 full seconds while he fires off primary fires - enough time for Sombra to empty half her clip into him - before he can even start doing damage to her?

    Why the Zen hate, Musicool? Zen's all about peace. This buff is a hate crime.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited July 9
    THose are some fairer points and I'll have to think about them. The widow analogy didn't make sense though.

    But again, you're saying you're against the idea and then occasionally still tilting into the problem of 4 damage instances.

    I'm not sure where Junk would be in this situation. But given that Sombra is already a hard counter to so very many heroes, if ther'es a change we could make that massively reudces that number, even if it changes which heroes they are...isn't that better? And it takes less than Hack duration to blow yourself away with a mine. So what, she hacks you while you're flying away and then...? What? The answer is: depends on the situation. And making Sombra's best match-ups against heroes who have near-instant responses is good because those are the heroes who can react to the sound of Hack. All anyone bitching about Sombra wants is a way to react to Hack. And Junkrat would have that.

    As to Ashe burning a full quarter of her clip. Like I said, that's a numbers complaint and I've just said the numbers could be changed. And if she decides to commit Coach Gun...is that a problem? A flanker spent several seconds to get in close and force a mid-range hitscan to use their mobility move, but not kill them, in order to not be hacked. And the mobility move might still get them to safety, if they positioned and reacted well. And the flanker is now CC'd away from effective range. This seems like a situationally fair 1v1 outcome. That could lead to interesting follow-up from either team. That isn't a hard counter by any means. Either side could have gained the advantage here.

    But you're also totally forgetting the effect of Ashe's firebomb. Because it gives Ashe two very different options. She can whip around and Coach Gun away, escaping the fight if she's well positioned. OR she can whip round and throw her firebomb and detonate it with a shot, thereby accepting the duel. She has time before hack to throw the bomb, but not to throw it and coach gun and detonate the bomb before she's hacked. Unless she's a total aimbot in which case, fair play. But assuming she's not: firebomb will break refraction AND do the necessary damage that her next headshot or two body shots will kill. And Coach gun will give her a likely escape if she stood in a good position. But she can't have both.

    So again, if we say that Refraction is only 2 charges, it makes another match-up more interactive and interesting, not less.

    Hanzo might need Storm Arrow off cd but, well...plenty of heroes need to save a cd vs certain match-ups. This isn't a new thing. Genji needs dash to survive Winston. McCree needs flash to survive basically any dive hero if he isn't an aimbot. Torb needs to save overcharge for all kinds of threats. This is the nature of saving and punishing cooldowns. Plus he still has leap and wallclimb to immediately bamboozle any likely waiting Sombra. If he can't play with his team or play dodgeball for a few seconds well, I dunno, I want to check the replay before I decide the match-up is inherently unfair. And tbh, if the presence of a Sombra makes a Hanzo think twice about spamming Storm Arrow in the first place, isn't that already an interesting soft counter effect to the match-up? Suddenly by picking Sombra you massively reduce the effective barrier break of the double-sniper comp because their Hanzo doesn't feel safe anymore to relentlessly storm arrow your barrier until he knows where Sombra is or that he has peel ready for him. That is interesting.

    And if her Refraction charges counter certain ults, but only for her specifically, not like a Mei wall might for the whole team or something...

    So what? Don't we all have a problem with the strength of ults in this game? Don't plenty of base abilities counter ults situationally. Shouldn't more?

    And again, even if it really is a problem that a certain dps hero survives DVA bomb or Junk tyre (cough, Reaper, cough, Mei, cough, most mobility when used well) you could fix the idea with a basic numbers change: it doesn't reduce the damage to zero, it reduces the damage by X. Say 200, or 150. So she dies to a DVa bomb and a Junk tire all the same. She just doesn't die to a head click.

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
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  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    I wanna' know what dirt Sombra's got on you that you're willin' to go to the mats for her on this.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    Kwoaru
  • mightyjongyomightyjongyo Registered User regular
    Musicool wrote: »
    But given that Sombra is already a hard counter to so very many heroes, if ther'es a change we could make that massively reudces that number, even if it changes which heroes they are...isn't that better?

    Your idea makes her a hard counter to basically everything because you're giving her a shield on top of her already insane survivability. It's rivaled only by Mei who arguably gets away with it because she has no escape options like translocate or blink or dash.
    Chance wrote: »
    If you want a hero who can just absorb 4 damage sources, you've started building a tank. If you then want to let them teleport, remove enemy abilities, lock out enemy abilities from an entire team while disabling all barriers and turrets, see low-health enemies through walls, turn invisible and run twice as fast as anyone else in the game, I'm gonna' suggest your hero might be a bit overtuned, and requires some more time on the PTR.

    Yeah basically this ^

    Chance
  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Why the Zen hate, Musicool? Zen's all about peace. This buff is a hate crime.

    I hate Zen because he's OP.

    Balance in all things.

    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
  • MusicoolMusicool Registered User regular
    edited July 9
    Musicool wrote: »
    But given that Sombra is already a hard counter to so very many heroes, if ther'es a change we could make that massively reudces that number, even if it changes which heroes they are...isn't that better?

    Your idea makes her a hard counter to basically everything because you're giving her a shield on top of her already insane survivability. It's rivaled only by Mei who arguably gets away with it because she has no escape options like translocate or blink or dash.
    Chance wrote: »
    If you want a hero who can just absorb 4 damage sources, you've started building a tank. If you then want to let them teleport, remove enemy abilities, lock out enemy abilities from an entire team while disabling all barriers and turrets, see low-health enemies through walls, turn invisible and run twice as fast as anyone else in the game, I'm gonna' suggest your hero might be a bit overtuned, and requires some more time on the PTR.

    Yeah basically this ^

    I'd be open to somehow nerfing her Trans if that's necessary. I agree that her playstyle of "do something, Trans out when there's even the slightest danger" is kinda...ehhhh. But it exists because she can't afford to do very much otherwise. Giving her the Refraction charges opens up interesting side-nerf options like giving Trans-out a cast time. Suddenly Sombra can afford to do things, but she's also open to going too deep and being punished when she tries, because her escape isn't instant speed and it no longer needs to be because of Refraction. This is a positive feedback loop.

    Musicool on
    Burtletoy wrote: »
    I disagree completely.

    hAmmONd IsnT A mAin TAnk
    unbelievablejugsphp.png
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Musicool wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Why the Zen hate, Musicool? Zen's all about peace. This buff is a hate crime.

    I hate Zen because he's OP.

    Balance in all things.

    Yes. That large, slow-moving, perfectly-round hit box with zero escape abilities and a lower effective DPS than Sombra sure is... sure is a beast.

    ****THIS WAS ALL SARCASM BUT IT WAS FRIENDLY, WELL-MEANING SARCASM. SO REALLY IT'S MORE FACETIOUS THAN SARCASTIC****

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Delete Torb.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • Element BrianElement Brian Peanut Butter Shill Registered User regular
    the thing with Sombra is that she is really good in team fights and not just for her ult and if your problem with her is that your losing a lot of 1x1s then maybe you should help your team by hacking the people they are fighting

    Switch FC code:SW-2130-4285-0059

    Arch,
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    Chance
  • TexiKenTexiKen Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Delete Torb.

    I think when they patched him recently they reverted the turret firing on consoles to what it is on PC, and not the 85% speed I think it was reduced to. It is was too punchy when playing as Pharah compared to what it's felt before.

    Also just make its field of vision/ engagement 240 degrees max to allow for sneaky snake attacks.

    eb3XA8M.png
  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I always though health pack hacking was the most interesting thing about Sombra, but they've de-emphasised it so much, and buffed player hacking so much, that I wonder why it's still an option. Temporarily taking away people's buttons just doesn't seem like it is fun for anyone, but if that's what she is there for, then just, you know, commit to it and stop confusing the situation.

    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited July 11
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Delete Torb.

    I think when they patched him recently they reverted the turret firing on consoles to what it is on PC, and not the 85% speed I think it was reduced to. It is was too punchy when playing as Pharah compared to what it's felt before.

    Idk if that's true - as I remember it, Torb and Sym turret damage was once adjusted for console, but it's been the same across console and PC for at least a year now, I think. Likely because it's just easier for 'em.

    And it's bullshit.
    TexiKen wrote: »
    Also just make its field of vision/ engagement 240 degrees max to allow for sneaky snake attacks.

    YES. But then they'll just always put it in corners...

    @Monkey Ball Warrior to me the most interesting thing about Sombra is the fact that she's a DPS with no secondary or burst fire ability, she's got her odd and totally lethal gun and nothing else to hurt you with - and Hack forces any 1v1 into an aim contest on equal terms - her M1 against yours.

    In that, she's a lot like Tracer. In fact I believe Sombra's potential sustained DPS is higher than Tracer's - but Tracer has Pulse.

    Also, beyond health packs not giving ult charge, they've literally buffed her health pack hacking - it only produces half the cooldown when you hack one, now. She gets her ult pretty damn fast as-is, and was getting it ridiculously fast when her healing was tied to it.

    S'all good with Sombra. If anything EMP and hack are OP.

    Chance on
    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited July 10
    Neat!



    I had no idea where to find replays until yesterday._.

    Chance on
    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited July 10
    Chance wrote: »
    @Monkey Ball Warrior to me the most interesting thing about Sombra is the fact that she's a DPS with no secondary or burst fire ability, she's got her odd and totally lethal gun and nothing else to hurt you with - and Hack forces any 1v1 into an aim contest on equal terms - her M1 against yours.

    In that, she's a lot like Tracer. In fact I believe Sombra's potential sustained DPS is higher than Tracer's - but Tracer has Pulse.

    Also, beyond health packs not giving ult charge, they've literally buffed her health pack hacking - it only produces half the cooldown when you hack one, now. She gets her ult pretty damn fast as-is, and was getting it ridiculously fast when her healing was tied to it.

    S'all good with Sombra. If anything EMP and hack are OP.

    That's a good point about the aim-battle. I guess since my aim is so poor I hadn't thought of it that way.

    I just didn't know about the half-cooldown health pack hack buff. That's a big deal. I still doubt I will really see that "Health Pack Healer" gameplay I'd hoped for back when I played her a lot.

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
    Chance
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited July 10
    Chance wrote: »
    @Monkey Ball Warrior to me the most interesting thing about Sombra is the fact that she's a DPS with no secondary or burst fire ability, she's got her odd and totally lethal gun and nothing else to hurt you with - and Hack forces any 1v1 into an aim contest on equal terms - her M1 against yours.

    In that, she's a lot like Tracer. In fact I believe Sombra's potential sustained DPS is higher than Tracer's - but Tracer has Pulse.

    Also, beyond health packs not giving ult charge, they've literally buffed her health pack hacking - it only produces half the cooldown when you hack one, now. She gets her ult pretty damn fast as-is, and was getting it ridiculously fast when her healing was tied to it.

    S'all good with Sombra. If anything EMP and hack are OP.

    That's a good point about the aim-battle. I guess since my aim is so poor I hadn't thought of it that way.

    I just didn't know about the half-cooldown health pack hack buff. That's a big deal. I still doubt I will really see that "Health Pack Healer" gameplay I'd hoped for back when I played her a lot.

    Sombra's gun is Solid. It's solid in that its sustained damage per second falls somewhere in the 115-140 range, which is standard for nearly every DPS in the game. Look at the per-second sustained DPS of Hanzo, Ashe, Soldier, McCree, Tracer, Junk, Pharah (if we're considering single-target damage) - it all falls into about those ranges (though NuCree actually exceeds them). Notable outlier: Reaper does 260 sustained DPS. 130 damage per shot, 2 shots per second with the obvious weakness of his low range.

    But Sombra's gun is also almost impossible to use to WTFPWN someone. Like a McCree can double-tap you in the head - it'll take him less than a second to kill you. Two headshots from an Ashe, same deal, a spray of headshots and a Helix from Soldier, et cetera. Sombra's gun does the same sustained DPS as Tracer, but while Tracer spends literally half of her time reloading so she's incredibly dangerous for one second before being completely harmless for another full second, Sombra just sprayyyys it out over like 4 seconds - so while a Tracer can put her guns to your head and delete you in 0.5, it's gonna' take Sombra a full second or more of perfect headshots to achieve the same result.

    So if her gun is actually kinda poor at the gank, what bloody advantage does she have against a guy with a headshotting bow or a sick-ass hand cannon, once she's evened things up with hack?

    The element of surprise. Only surprise. That's all she's got. That, and the range on her SMG allows her to continue to pressure or pick low-health targets at like 30 yards, and unlike her victim she can use translocator to bail out when things get dicey.

    That's why when you're going to 1v1 someone in the backline, hacking them can often be kinda' counterproductive. You're giving up that surprise to strip them of their abilities, and now it's just aim V. aim. I'd rather have the surprise, more often than not. Like there's no reason to ever hack a Zen when you're going to gank him unless you think he's going to Trance to escape it. He will land Discord on you faster than you execute the hack, probably, and it's way, way easier for you to hit him than it is for him to hit you - may as well take the benefit of the surprise.

    Edit: I guess I should note all the above is primarily concerned with the thought process behind a 1v1 gank. In a teamfight all of the above becomes (largely) irrelevant, and Sombra should behave more like hyper-mobile Zenyatta, and her Discord is called Hack.

    Chance on
    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    PailryderBRIAN BLESSED
  • KwoaruKwoaru Registered User regular
    Getting hacked should make you have to reload

    2x39jD4.jpg
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    Getting hacked should make you have to reload

    77g3w5lmms6p.jpeg

    Also has anyone else really dove into their replays? I'm loving this.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • mightyjongyomightyjongyo Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Kwoaru wrote: »
    Getting hacked should make you have to reload

    77g3w5lmms6p.jpeg

    Also has anyone else really dove into their replays? I'm loving this.

    Weirdly I find it more confusing to watch the replay! I do use it to analyze my deaths and see if there was anything better I could have done w.r.t. positioning, shots, teamwork, etc, but I don't think I have it in me to do a deep dive into the overall match and analyze how each team did.

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular


    @mightyjongyo I am loving it. Certainly not every or most games - just a few special ones. I just watched a McCree die to my Winston, get rezzed, immediately go High Noon and see me instantly blink into his face and slap him with Pulse before recalling just as he pulls the trigger.

    It was beautiful.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    QoL changes I'd suggest
    Make Sombra's phase out from invis faster, it feels sluggish as fuck
    Make it so Sombra can hack and shoot at the same time. Plenty of heroes do multiple things near simultaneously, DVa especially comes to mind when she can throw up protection and apply damage at the same time and time spent hacking is time just... Not applying what meagre damage Sombra does already

  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Someone on the official Blizz forums laid out a bunch of Ashe techs today. Turns out Coach gun cancels into hip-fire, which can be instantly cancelled into a scoped shot. Hanzo and Genji have their little techs - heck, Rein can animation cancel his melee swing into a firestrike for an instant 175 damage.

    But not Sombra. Not Tracer.

    Nope. Not us. Also Sombra not being able to shoot while phasing out from invis is a bit like OG Shadowstep, I suppose - she can be hurt but she can't deal damage or do anything beyond translocating, really.

    So that is at least inconsistent - but Sombra also never became the Blizzard Rework Flavor of the Month. Let her become as useless as Reaper was prior to the lifesteal buff and maybe she'll get some love :(

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • CoinageCoinage The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter Registered User regular
    edited July 11
    QoL changes I'd suggest
    Make Sombra's phase out from invis faster, it feels sluggish as fuck
    Make it so Sombra can hack and shoot at the same time. Plenty of heroes do multiple things near simultaneously, DVa especially comes to mind when she can throw up protection and apply damage at the same time and time spent hacking is time just... Not applying what meagre damage Sombra does already
    What kind of depraved perversion could drive you to say something like this

    Coinage on
    l5pfwe2qivac.jpg
    BionicPenguin
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    QoL changes I'd suggest
    Make Sombra's phase out from invis faster, it feels sluggish as fuck
    Make it so Sombra can hack and shoot at the same time. Plenty of heroes do multiple things near simultaneously, DVa especially comes to mind when she can throw up protection and apply damage at the same time and time spent hacking is time just... Not applying what meagre damage Sombra does already
    What kind of depraved perversion could drive you to say something like this

    We already know that anything can be hacked, but I didn't believe her when she said anyone.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • CoinageCoinage The Naming of Cats is a difficult matter Registered User regular
    My 100% sincere balance suggestion is: no invisible characters in multiplayer games, ever. If you've already fucked up and created one, the least you can do is make them so bad that nobody picks them unironically

    l5pfwe2qivac.jpg
    Chance
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Rework: Sombra is now Canadian and thus has no firearm. Upon de-stealthing, she devastates the enemy team with painfully timid apologies and earnest but pointless suggestions that we all just try to get along.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • McMoogleMcMoogle Registered User regular
    Chance wrote: »
    Rework: Sombra is now Canadian and thus has no firearm. Upon de-stealthing, she devastates the enemy team with painfully timid apologies and earnest but pointless suggestions that we all just try to get along.

    Says the dual gun wielding Brit. :-p

    steam_sig.png
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    McMoogle wrote: »
    Chance wrote: »
    Rework: Sombra is now Canadian and thus has no firearm. Upon de-stealthing, she devastates the enemy team with painfully timid apologies and earnest but pointless suggestions that we all just try to get along.

    Says the dual gun wielding Brit. :-p

    Green Berets!

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
  • Element BrianElement Brian Peanut Butter Shill Registered User regular
    edited July 11
    someday im gonna take all these lucio clips and put them together to a highlight reel and it will be done to soft cell's tainted love and every time the beat does that 'tainted looove ooohohh *DUN DUN* Tainted love now i know i've got to *DUN DUN*' but on every *DUN DUN* im gonna replace it with my lucio punching tracers to death and i'll replace the *DUN DUN* with the beep from tracer dying so its like tainted love oohoohh *BEEP BEEP*.

    but until then heres me terrorizing people the only way i know how, by skating very aggressively in their face, punching and shouting BOOP over and over

    potg boops
    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76992957

    being mean to zenyatta boops

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993075

    being really mean to zenyattas

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993221

    teaming up with hanzo to fuck up snipers

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993305

    playing doomfist like a fucking matador, killing nana and then taking out the snipers by myself

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993341

    not being afraid of monkeys or purple ladies

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993401

    not scared of mcrees either

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993424

    aggressively wasting my ults and then aggressively helping a mei jump off the attestupa

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993451

    fuck it lets hunt down phara too

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993495

    mccree, hanzo, bridgett..

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993544

    god i fucking love lucio

    Element Brian on
    Switch FC code:SW-2130-4285-0059

    Arch,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
    Chancemiscellaneousinsanity
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited July 11
    someday im gonna take all these lucio clips and put them together to a highlight reel and it will be done to soft cell's tainted love and every time the beat does that 'tainted looove ooohohh *DUN DUN* Tainted love now i know i've got to *DUN DUN*' but on every *DUN DUN* im gonna replace it with my lucio punching tracers to death and i'll replace the *DUN DUN* with the beep from tracer dying so its like tainted love oohoohh *BEEP BEEP*.

    but until then heres me terrorizing people the only way i know how, by skating very aggressively in their face, punching and shouting BOOP over and over

    potg boops
    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76992957

    being mean to zenyatta boops

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993075

    being really mean to zenyattas

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993221

    teaming up with hanzo to fuck up snipers

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993305

    playing doomfist like a fucking matador, killing nana and then taking out the snipers by myself

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993341

    not being afraid of monkeys or purple ladies

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993401

    not scared of mcrees either

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993424

    aggressively wasting my ults and then aggressively helping a mei jump off the attestupa

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993451

    fuck it lets hunt down phara too

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993495

    mccree, hanzo, bridgett..

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/elementbrian/video/76993544

    god i fucking love lucio

    Upload these to Mega as MP4s and I will make this video on your behalf.

    Edit: These are 1080p MP4s and there's a download option right on that gamedvr site.

    ...gimmie maybe 'till midnight tomorrow. I've gotta' do a thing tonight but we'll see what I can get done ^.^

    Edit edit: there's almost no way I can do that audio editing though lol.

    Chance on
    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    Element Brian
  • Element BrianElement Brian Peanut Butter Shill Registered User regular
    lol don worry about that, the soft cell thing might be a bigger project i work on later, will need a good archive of lucio punch kills, but its always nice to have a good highlight reel either way

    i got a message last night from one of the mccrees or hanzos asking what my deal was

    no deal dude just love skating and booping

    Switch FC code:SW-2130-4285-0059

    Arch,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
    Chance
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    Still gonna' do it.

    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    Element Brian
  • Element BrianElement Brian Peanut Butter Shill Registered User regular
    you're a real one Chance

    Switch FC code:SW-2130-4285-0059

    Arch,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_goGR39m2k
    Chance
  • ChanceChance Registered User regular
    edited July 11


    -summer games coming sooner than usual.
    -hero 31 is Male and we'll see then later than usual
    -3 new epic skins to unlock via weekly challenges during Summer Games
    -enhanced cheat detection is coming.

    Chance on
    OuFrYk0.jpg
    'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
    KoopahTroopahPailryder
  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    Coinage wrote: »
    My 100% sincere balance suggestion is: no invisible characters in multiplayer games, ever. If you've already fucked up and created one, the least you can do is make them so bad that nobody picks them unironically

    So, uh, TF2 spy wants to have a word with you. At night. In a dark alley.

    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
This discussion has been closed.