This is going to come off a bit harsh, because, well it is. But I don't feel any reason to be particularly differential to Blizzard: They took my money long ago, so they already won. As a paying customer I am within my rights to be pissed at them.
I absolutely in the "Role queue turns the game into something I'm not very interested in" camp. It seems awfully late in the game's life to be making these kind of fundamental, core-concept changes. Not that the game is dying or anything, just that it is already settled and mature and just didn't have any problems serious enough to need this kind of structural change. It feels very much like they're taking what is at best an e-sports only problem and forcing a ham fisted, poorly thought through solution onto the rest of the game's population without considering how that will effect people that have been playing this game the entire time and don't give two damns about this esports nonsense.
It is their game, so they can break it if they want to. But I reserve the right to think this is a huge mistake that will only end in tears and a dwindling, disinterested player base.
Respectfully I really disagree, I think it's finally a solution for a fundamental problem in pub matches: team comps are usually a joke, and the game isn't fun to play when you have a bad team comp. It just doesn't work, Overwatch is a very VERY team comp oriented game and it always has been. That's why I quit playing, pub games were just really frustrating. This change will bring me back to the game. The fact that skill rating is now done per-role helps as well to make higher quality games. I couldn't care less about OWL for any of this.
I don't think it's ever too late to make big changes to a live game. They need to do what they think is best for the years to come - they can't always be tied to preserving the launch day experience. That's how a game fades into irrelevance. I'm way more excited to play a game that continues to see big changes than one that has been the same for years.
That's just it. Part of my beef with all this is it actively encourages the clowns in lower tiers that are CERTAIN that the reason we lost a game is that we were not running 222. Never mind that the tanks never pushed, the healers spent the entire round in respawn, and the dps were all snipers. No, that can't be it. The only reason we didn't curb stomp them is obviously that we didn't run the one true composition.
Composition just doesn't matter much until the higher tiers. Not enough to warrent everyone's, including Blizzards, obsession with it. I've won multiple ~1900 comp matches with say 5 DPS, 1 Healer, and we won because the other team didn't adapt to it. Would better players have taken advantage of our weird comp, exploiting its weakneses? Sure. But if they were capabable of that kind of higher level coordination and awareness, they'd probably already be in a higher tier anyway.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
+1
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
the game that got me back in gm this season was a 6dps on rialto 3min full push
in the end nobody knows anything and we are all just servants of the mmr goblins
+7
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Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited July 2019
Though now that I think about it, one advantage of this is that "we lost because we're not 222" can never again be used as an excuse. Maybe people will actually gain a bit of awareness; that these issues are always deeper than just "we have less than two heroes present with some arbitrary role label".
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
Though now that I think about it, one advantage of this is that "we lost because we're not 222" can never again be used as an excuse. Maybe people will actually gain a bit of awareness; that these issues are always deeper than just "we have less than two heroes present with some arbitrary role label".
I haven't been playing long, but 'have to play an anchor tank every match because no one else will' is half of my frustration with Overwatch, which will be at least partially resolved by 222 (I still may not get to play D.Va when I want to).
Not sure anything can solve my other problem, 'no one will push forward'.
+1
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Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
I haven't been playing long, but 'have to play an anchor tank every match because no one else will' is half of my frustration with Overwatch, which will be at least partially resolved by 222 (I still may not get to play D.Va when I want to).
Not sure anything can solve my other problem, 'no one will push forward'.
So many tanks are just ... timid. They hem and haw and stand around waiting for the stars to align and maybe then they will deign to make a single push. If that push fails we'll be lucky to pull off a second push before the round is over. First node of Hanamura is notorious for this issue.
So many times when my team caps a point, it's in overtime. Why? Because overtime forces a push, and that was all we needed the entire time.
I don't complain much about this because, well, I don't tank, because I'm just really bad at it. So I'm not suggesting I'd do any better. Only a vague surprise that someone who chooses to play tank regularly wouldn't figure out how to do the one thing they are specifically there to do; break through chokepoints.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Though now that I think about it, one advantage of this is that "we lost because we're not 222" can never again be used as an excuse. Maybe people will actually gain a bit of awareness; that these issues are always deeper than just "we have less than two heroes present with some arbitrary role label".
yes finally teams will realise they lost because they didnt have the good australian hero
+3
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BethrynUnhappiness is MandatoryRegistered Userregular
As a species we might one day get past "we lost because we didn't play the way the pros play."
This is going to come off a bit harsh, because, well it is. But I don't feel any reason to be particularly differential to Blizzard: They took my money long ago, so they already won. As a paying customer I am within my rights to be pissed at them.
I absolutely in the "Role queue turns the game into something I'm not very interested in" camp. It seems awfully late in the game's life to be making these kind of fundamental, core-concept changes. Not that the game is dying or anything, just that it is already settled and mature and just didn't have any problems serious enough to need this kind of structural change. It feels very much like they're taking what is at best an e-sports only problem and forcing a ham fisted, poorly thought through solution onto the rest of the game's population without considering how that will effect people that have been playing this game the entire time and don't give two damns about this esports nonsense.
It is their game, so they can break it if they want to. But I reserve the right to think this is a huge mistake that will only end in tears and a dwindling, disinterested player base.
Respectfully I really disagree, I think it's finally a solution for a fundamental problem in pub matches: team comps are usually a joke, and the game isn't fun to play when you have a bad team comp. It just doesn't work, Overwatch is a very VERY team comp oriented game and it always has been. That's why I quit playing, pub games were just really frustrating. This change will bring me back to the game. The fact that skill rating is now done per-role helps as well to make higher quality games. I couldn't care less about OWL for any of this.
I don't think it's ever too late to make big changes to a live game. They need to do what they think is best for the years to come - they can't always be tied to preserving the launch day experience. That's how a game fades into irrelevance. I'm way more excited to play a game that continues to see big changes than one that has been the same for years.
That's just it. Part of my beef with all this is it actively encourages the clowns in lower tiers that are CERTAIN that the reason we lost a game is that we were not running 222. Never mind that the tanks never pushed, the healers spent the entire round in respawn, and the dps were all snipers. No, that can't be it. The only reason we didn't curb stomp them is obviously that we didn't run the one true composition.
Composition just doesn't matter much until the higher tiers. Not enough to warrent everyone's, including Blizzards, obsession with it. I've won multiple ~1900 comp matches with say 5 DPS, 1 Healer, and we won because the other team didn't adapt to it. Would better players have taken advantage of our weird comp, exploiting its weakneses? Sure. But if they were capabable of that kind of higher level coordination and awareness, they'd probably already be in a higher tier anyway.
For sure, people are bad at the game and don't understand the true purpose of the team comps. But just because you can win with an awful comp doesn't mean it wasn't an awful comp. Team composition being so wildly inconsistent is a big reason why people don't bother to try hard in QP, they just goof off. It makes a difference when the game is actually putting you into a real team from the start. It changes perceptions, like the broken window theory: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory
Maybe if all of their games have reasonable comps, they'll start to learn the things that actually matter. It's hard to pick up those skills when you only get a decent team one in five times.
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Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited July 2019
I should be clear; Not only am I opposed to hard coding a composition generally, but even accepting the premise that a composition should be hard coded, I strongly disagree with having that choice be 222. I've never liked 222, and having the game be all "Tough, it is now 222 from hell to breakfast" is frustrating on its own.
Also, yes, people goof off in QP, because that is its purpose. If you want to take the game seriously, there's an entire mode for that. There's also Arcade, which sits in a nice half-way point being the glorified practice mode that is QP and the absolute seriousness that is Comp.
That being said I would have very much liked a permanent off-season-comp like experience. I love the Comp ruleset, but I don't always love the stress. I want a mode with the structure of Comp combined with the who-cares attitude of QP.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
+2
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mightyjongyoSour CrrmEast Bay, CaliforniaRegistered Userregular
I feel like I picked up on comps and synergy and overall game sense much faster when I played with a consistent group - you get so much more information when you can strategize in a non-toxic fashion and everyone is tracking ults, calling positions, making plays, etc.
(in QP -- I think in comp people generally will go in voice so you get a lot of the same info although usually more toxic, but in QP almost no-one is in voice)
I should be clear; Not only am I opposed to hard coding a composition generally, but even accepting the premise that a composition should be hard coded, I strongly disagree with having that choice be 222. I've never liked 222, and having the game be all "Tough, it is now 222 from hell to breakfast" is frustrating on its own.
Also, yes, people goof off in QP, because that is its purpose. If you want to take the game seriously, there's an entire mode for that. There's also Arcade, which sits in a nice half-way point being the glorified practice mode that is QP and the absolute seriousness that is Comp.
That being said I would have very much liked a permanent off-season-comp like experience. I love the Comp ruleset, but I don't always love the stress. I want a mode with the structure of Comp combined with the who-cares attitude of QP.
Arcade is the goof off mode, that's like its entire purpose from day one. I'm puzzled as to which mode you're referring to that is more serious than QP. I see QP as the middle ground suitable for most players, where you play the real game but don't have to stress about it too much. Arcade is where I go when I don't care at all and just want to practice aim in DM or something. And that's where classic QP will live now, which I'm sure will have an audience at least for a while. And I fully expect it to be just the raw nonsense of people running around shooting stuff, since it will now have self-selected out the people who are put off by strict QP.
So, rewatching the trailer, I noticed something about the in-game model: I don't think Sigma is actually huge. I think he's floating. Possible levitation abilities? It would fit his gravity theme.
My favorite musical instrument is the air-raid siren.
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Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited July 2019
Doesn't Arcade have its own ranking system? That would in itself makes it more "serious", though I guess it depends on which sub-mode we're talking about. Obviously some modes like No-Limits is just pure silliness. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they're both equally casual modes. I don't think I've even clicked the Arcade tab in over a year.
Arcade aside, what I'm trying to get at is expecting people to take QP seriously is not a great use of one's energy, because it simply isn't going to happen. QP is not Comp. If you get both a Tank and a Healer at the same time, you should consider yourself fortunate. Given leavers and backfills, actually winning or losing is completely beside the point of QP. It's about the journey, not the destination.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
Doesn't Arcade have its own ranking system? That would in itself makes it more "serious", though I guess it depends on which sub-mode we're talking about. Obviously some modes like No-Limits is just pure silliness. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they're both equally casual modes. I don't think I've even clicked the Arcade tab in over a year.
Arcade aside, what I'm trying to get at is expecting people to take QP seriously is not a great use of one's energy, because it simply isn't going to happen. QP is not Comp. If you get both a Tank and a Healer at the same time, you should consider yourself fortunate. Given leavers and backfills, actually winning or losing is completely beside the point of QP. It's about the journey, not the destination.
I don't think Arcade has skill based matchmaking, the player pools are too small. QP does have skill rating though, the same as Competitive but just invisible. My point is that QP was never supposed to be pure stupidity, it's meant to be the default game mode for most players. It's literally all the game had at first, then in the beta they added Brawls which were Arcade's predecessor and just pure horseshit: https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Brawl Competitive only came after that when people complained about the lack of visible ranks, Blizzard hadn't even intended to do it originally.
Anyway the reason QP is so stupid now is because it's completely uncontrolled. It's broken, and these changes are meant to fix it. QP will always be less serious than Competitive, but the people who have zero interest in objectives and just want to shoot stuff will hopefully bounce off of QP and go to Arcade which is meant for that. And I think some people who only played Competitive because they wanted a modicum of sanity in their games will now drop down to QP because it better suits them.
Perhaps Sigma's shields are very powerful but he himself is weak. No more than say, 350 hp...
Anywho I was playin QP and practicing Zen but I was getting trashed by flankers so went Moira. Halfway through round 2 that's not enough. We get a leaver, I switch to Tracer, the backfill is a 2,000 hr player with 100 SR on me who goes Sombra v their Hog, Doom, Lucio and Bap and it's a crazy fight but we win.
To reiterate - it was an insane fight. It took like 2+ minutes for one of us to take the third point. But we did and a few stumbles aside we kept it. And one of the reds adds me to a chat group. And I wince. And I look at the name. Something_The_Sith.
Not a good sign.
And hopeful, I pre-emptively type out "Crazy game" on my phone, to start saying gg, and the message pops.
And it's like... someone wants to be in a video ^.^
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
So, rewatching the trailer, I noticed something about the in-game model: I don't think Sigma is actually huge. I think he's floating. Possible levitation abilities? It would fit his gravity theme.
kind of sick if he has a passive that makes him constantly float, making him immune to env kills
I know this character lore trick works to builds hype, because it absolutely kills me every time. Which is exactly why I hate it.
I wanna plaaaaaay hiiiiiim!
Or at least know his abilities so I can theorycraft!
Definitely get the impression he's meant to be a high skill cap, big brain hero.
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Or at least know his abilities so I can theorycraft!
That's all I want. I need dem numbers. And at least 2 of my games tonight including Mr. Suicide don't appear in my replays. What gives?
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
+2
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
They really need to add damage falloff to Mei and Genji's attacks, it's such cheese spamming bullshit. Only Widow and a fully charged Hamzo shot should be falloff free.
They really need to add damage falloff to Mei and Genji's attacks, it's such cheese spamming bullshit. Only Widow and a fully charged Hamzo shot should be falloff free.
With the fix to Mei, all projectile shots are no-damage-falloff. It's a balance to the whole not-hitscan thing.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
In the meantime, please enjoy me discovering the power of amplification matrix and headshots. Literally the only good 2 seconds of this video are the squishy double tap. I was intending to hit them in the head, but it's a little unusual that it actually happened.
Monkey Ball WarriorA collection of mediocre hatsSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
edited July 2019
I have a hard time taking any game mode where people can drop in and out too seriously. I think other people in QP feel the same way, because they never stick around for the other sides of maps. It is one of the frustrating things about QP; even if you have a great, well balanced game, the chances enough of the players will stay to keep it from resetting the server is kind of low. So you almost never get to play both halves of a map with the same teams.
I'm not going to uninstall or anything. I just wish Blizzard was taking a different approach with all this.
Monkey Ball Warrior on
"I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
Not sure why people feel like 222 is gonna stop double sniper picks on attack or double dive tank on defense or make your battle mercy/moira realize their errors.
Not sure why people feel like 222 is gonna stop double sniper picks on attack or double dive tank on defense or make your battle mercy/moira realize their errors.
There will be bad comps within the boundaries of 2-2-2, but they'll still be far better than the bad comps from before.
Not sure why people feel like 222 is gonna stop double sniper picks on attack or double dive tank on defense or make your battle mercy/moira realize their errors.
There will be bad comps within the boundaries of 2-2-2, but they'll still be far better than the bad comps from before.
Understandable, though less ways to fix bad comps too. Time will tell. I do hope it works out for the betterment of the game as a whole since it's gonna happen.
Not sure why people feel like 222 is gonna stop double sniper picks on attack or double dive tank on defense or make your battle mercy/moira realize their errors.
Not sure why people feel like 222 is gonna stop double sniper picks on attack or double dive tank on defense or make your battle mercy/moira realize their errors.
There's nothing wrong with dive tanks on defense or having double snipers attacks?
Just get picks and roll enemy over.
Yeah i was just randomly thinking of things people have complained about in the past. I should've just stuck with "bad comps" as a general idea rather than specifics as the specifics weren't great.
Posts
wtf
SIGMA is one of the biggest trends on german twitter!!
That's just it. Part of my beef with all this is it actively encourages the clowns in lower tiers that are CERTAIN that the reason we lost a game is that we were not running 222. Never mind that the tanks never pushed, the healers spent the entire round in respawn, and the dps were all snipers. No, that can't be it. The only reason we didn't curb stomp them is obviously that we didn't run the one true composition.
Composition just doesn't matter much until the higher tiers. Not enough to warrent everyone's, including Blizzards, obsession with it. I've won multiple ~1900 comp matches with say 5 DPS, 1 Healer, and we won because the other team didn't adapt to it. Would better players have taken advantage of our weird comp, exploiting its weakneses? Sure. But if they were capabable of that kind of higher level coordination and awareness, they'd probably already be in a higher tier anyway.
in the end nobody knows anything and we are all just servants of the mmr goblins
Not sure anything can solve my other problem, 'no one will push forward'.
So many tanks are just ... timid. They hem and haw and stand around waiting for the stars to align and maybe then they will deign to make a single push. If that push fails we'll be lucky to pull off a second push before the round is over. First node of Hanamura is notorious for this issue.
So many times when my team caps a point, it's in overtime. Why? Because overtime forces a push, and that was all we needed the entire time.
I don't complain much about this because, well, I don't tank, because I'm just really bad at it. So I'm not suggesting I'd do any better. Only a vague surprise that someone who chooses to play tank regularly wouldn't figure out how to do the one thing they are specifically there to do; break through chokepoints.
yes finally teams will realise they lost because they didnt have the good australian hero
Until that day, there's always DM thank god.
For sure, people are bad at the game and don't understand the true purpose of the team comps. But just because you can win with an awful comp doesn't mean it wasn't an awful comp. Team composition being so wildly inconsistent is a big reason why people don't bother to try hard in QP, they just goof off. It makes a difference when the game is actually putting you into a real team from the start. It changes perceptions, like the broken window theory: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory
Maybe if all of their games have reasonable comps, they'll start to learn the things that actually matter. It's hard to pick up those skills when you only get a decent team one in five times.
Also, yes, people goof off in QP, because that is its purpose. If you want to take the game seriously, there's an entire mode for that. There's also Arcade, which sits in a nice half-way point being the glorified practice mode that is QP and the absolute seriousness that is Comp.
That being said I would have very much liked a permanent off-season-comp like experience. I love the Comp ruleset, but I don't always love the stress. I want a mode with the structure of Comp combined with the who-cares attitude of QP.
(in QP -- I think in comp people generally will go in voice so you get a lot of the same info although usually more toxic, but in QP almost no-one is in voice)
Arcade is the goof off mode, that's like its entire purpose from day one. I'm puzzled as to which mode you're referring to that is more serious than QP. I see QP as the middle ground suitable for most players, where you play the real game but don't have to stress about it too much. Arcade is where I go when I don't care at all and just want to practice aim in DM or something. And that's where classic QP will live now, which I'm sure will have an audience at least for a while. And I fully expect it to be just the raw nonsense of people running around shooting stuff, since it will now have self-selected out the people who are put off by strict QP.
Arcade aside, what I'm trying to get at is expecting people to take QP seriously is not a great use of one's energy, because it simply isn't going to happen. QP is not Comp. If you get both a Tank and a Healer at the same time, you should consider yourself fortunate. Given leavers and backfills, actually winning or losing is completely beside the point of QP. It's about the journey, not the destination.
I don't think Arcade has skill based matchmaking, the player pools are too small. QP does have skill rating though, the same as Competitive but just invisible. My point is that QP was never supposed to be pure stupidity, it's meant to be the default game mode for most players. It's literally all the game had at first, then in the beta they added Brawls which were Arcade's predecessor and just pure horseshit: https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Brawl Competitive only came after that when people complained about the lack of visible ranks, Blizzard hadn't even intended to do it originally.
Anyway the reason QP is so stupid now is because it's completely uncontrolled. It's broken, and these changes are meant to fix it. QP will always be less serious than Competitive, but the people who have zero interest in objectives and just want to shoot stuff will hopefully bounce off of QP and go to Arcade which is meant for that. And I think some people who only played Competitive because they wanted a modicum of sanity in their games will now drop down to QP because it better suits them.
Anywho I was playin QP and practicing Zen but I was getting trashed by flankers so went Moira. Halfway through round 2 that's not enough. We get a leaver, I switch to Tracer, the backfill is a 2,000 hr player with 100 SR on me who goes Sombra v their Hog, Doom, Lucio and Bap and it's a crazy fight but we win.
To reiterate - it was an insane fight. It took like 2+ minutes for one of us to take the third point. But we did and a few stumbles aside we kept it. And one of the reds adds me to a chat group. And I wince. And I look at the name. Something_The_Sith.
Not a good sign.
And hopeful, I pre-emptively type out "Crazy game" on my phone, to start saying gg, and the message pops.
And it's like... someone wants to be in a video ^.^
kind of sick if he has a passive that makes him constantly float, making him immune to env kills
I wanna plaaaaaay hiiiiiim!
Or at least know his abilities so I can theorycraft!
Definitely get the impression he's meant to be a high skill cap, big brain hero.
That's all I want. I need dem numbers. And at least 2 of my games tonight including Mr. Suicide don't appear in my replays. What gives?
With the fix to Mei, all projectile shots are no-damage-falloff. It's a balance to the whole not-hitscan thing.
In the meantime, please enjoy me discovering the power of amplification matrix and headshots. Literally the only good 2 seconds of this video are the squishy double tap. I was intending to hit them in the head, but it's a little unusual that it actually happened.
and sometimes the stars align
I feel like that's true but it wouldn't be true if I were a half decent sniper.
looking throuhg the random clips i found this and the yelp from the widow as the tracer dies in front of her scope makes me laff every time
nah, clicking heads is cool and all but the rhythm of his shots and the poses he strikes are key
I'm not going to uninstall or anything. I just wish Blizzard was taking a different approach with all this.
humiliates widow and stuffs three ults in thirty seconds
Have I won with meme teams...yeah(literally won with 6 supports once).
Was it fun...yes.
Was it worth the other 9 out of 10 times matches with bad comps go exactly the way you think they will...no.
There will be bad comps within the boundaries of 2-2-2, but they'll still be far better than the bad comps from before.
Understandable, though less ways to fix bad comps too. Time will tell. I do hope it works out for the betterment of the game as a whole since it's gonna happen.
Just get picks and roll enemy over.
Hey wait those first two are actually fine.
Yeah i was just randomly thinking of things people have complained about in the past. I should've just stuck with "bad comps" as a general idea rather than specifics as the specifics weren't great.