If it is accepted that players are willing to spend Plat on Prime Parts why not just add a system that makes that simpler. Being able to put a stack of Prime Parts in a player market and then someone buys those parts while I am sleeping would be really nice.
Finally got a Chroma Prime. Time to see what everyone is talking about.
I noticed that his first ability lets you melee attack during it. That's probably a bug? I'm curious whether there are any other similar abilities that were affected by Melee 2.9 like that.
+1
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Finally got a Chroma Prime. Time to see what everyone is talking about.
I noticed that his first ability lets you melee attack during it. That's probably a bug? I'm curious whether there are any other similar abilities that were affected by Melee 2.9 like that.
Hopefully that's not a bug, or if so they'll let if become a feature, because that might actually make that ability useful.
If it is accepted that players are willing to spend Plat on Prime Parts why not just add a system that makes that simpler. Being able to put a stack of Prime Parts in a player market and then someone buys those parts while I am sleeping would be really nice.
A question asked since the dawn of time.
With Maroo's Bazaar and "Trade Pose" we are slowly getting there.
But it will probably never happen because it would pretty much ruin the plat economy.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
0
DaimarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
If it is accepted that players are willing to spend Plat on Prime Parts why not just add a system that makes that simpler. Being able to put a stack of Prime Parts in a player market and then someone buys those parts while I am sleeping would be really nice.
A question asked since the dawn of time.
With Maroo's Bazaar and "Trade Pose" we are slowly getting there.
But it will probably never happen because it would pretty much ruin the plat economy.
I don't see how it would ruin the whole economy. It would definitely be different than it is now which would likely upset a lot of people who are used to how it is now, and delight people who have a lot of time to play the market. That may be what DE may want to discourage since if there was an auction system similar to EVE Online for example there would just be people doing that and not bothering with the actual game, which I imagine there are a few people doing now but they're limited by a daily trade limit and somewhat clunky system.
Finally got a Chroma Prime. Time to see what everyone is talking about.
I noticed that his first ability lets you melee attack during it. That's probably a bug? I'm curious whether there are any other similar abilities that were affected by Melee 2.9 like that.
Valkyr's Hysteria now lets you swap between invincible melee mode and vulnerable gun shooty mode by aiming, though it still drains energy
Useful for building energy back up with Rage / Hunter Adrenaline
If it is accepted that players are willing to spend Plat on Prime Parts why not just add a system that makes that simpler. Being able to put a stack of Prime Parts in a player market and then someone buys those parts while I am sleeping would be really nice.
A question asked since the dawn of time.
With Maroo's Bazaar and "Trade Pose" we are slowly getting there.
But it will probably never happen because it would pretty much ruin the plat economy.
I don't see how it would ruin the whole economy. It would definitely be different than it is now which would likely upset a lot of people who are used to how it is now, and delight people who have a lot of time to play the market. That may be what DE may want to discourage since if there was an auction system similar to EVE Online for example there would just be people doing that and not bothering with the actual game, which I imagine there are a few people doing now but they're limited by a daily trade limit and somewhat clunky system.
Not like they couldn't put limits on how many of some items one can buy per day either, e.g. no more than 2 of one prime part, 10 of a gem/fish, etc.
If it is accepted that players are willing to spend Plat on Prime Parts why not just add a system that makes that simpler. Being able to put a stack of Prime Parts in a player market and then someone buys those parts while I am sleeping would be really nice.
A question asked since the dawn of time.
With Maroo's Bazaar and "Trade Pose" we are slowly getting there.
But it will probably never happen because it would pretty much ruin the plat economy.
I don't see how it would ruin the whole economy. It would definitely be different than it is now which would likely upset a lot of people who are used to how it is now, and delight people who have a lot of time to play the market. That may be what DE may want to discourage since if there was an auction system similar to EVE Online for example there would just be people doing that and not bothering with the actual game, which I imagine there are a few people doing now but they're limited by a daily trade limit and somewhat clunky system.
Not like they couldn't put limits on how many of some items one can buy per day either, e.g. no more than 2 of one prime part, 10 of a gem/fish, etc.
Right. they could do that to try and counter the "day traders", but this would make it suck for everyone else too. I buy bulk prime parts for ducat butter if I don't feel like farming. But any kind of passive sale system would ruin the economy in sense that it would likely hand the market over to those people who have a lot of time to game the system, particularly with prime "junk."
so... idk, it's an inconvenience I can live with because the alternative requires a minutiae of altruism that simply doesn't exist.
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Rerolled my Grakata riven into +202% Damage, +96.7% Multishot, +55.2% Reload Speed, -108% Impact. I can probably do better, but I'm not sure if I care.
0
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Rerolled my Grakata riven into +202% Damage, +96.7% Multishot, +55.2% Reload Speed, -108% Impact. I can probably do better, but I'm not sure if I care.
Okay, so how does the -impact affect the overall damage of the weapon?
Looking at the wiki, impact is it's largest damage type.
Rerolled my Grakata riven into +202% Damage, +96.7% Multishot, +55.2% Reload Speed, -108% Impact. I can probably do better, but I'm not sure if I care.
Okay, so how does the -impact affect the overall damage of the weapon?
Looking at the wiki, impact is it's largest damage type.
It doesn't affect the base damage, so the elemental damage is unchanged. All it does is completely remove the impact component and procs.
Just did a riven challenge to kill 5 dargyns with a bow while aim gliding. It turns out that dargyns that are sitting on the ground don't count for this, but dargyns that you have entered and immediately left do count.
Just did a riven challenge to kill 5 dargyns with a bow while aim gliding. It turns out that dargyns that are sitting on the ground don't count for this, but dargyns that you have entered and immediately left do count.
For ones that don't need a pilot kill, that one mission where you have to blow the door on the kuva fortress has like 6 dargyns that always spawn
NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
Huh, really? Last time the vault was open it blorped the vault relics into the bounty tables which made getting the Mesa prime set a pain until they finally closed it back up.
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Huh, really? Last time the vault was open it blorped the vault relics into the bounty tables which made getting the Mesa prime set a pain until they finally closed it back up.
Yep. It's a Rhino Prime style unvaulting, relics only drop in void. And even then, most of them are at like 10% chances. Loki's systems are a rare on an Axi with a 12% chance of dropping on C rotation interception and survival on max level Void.
Basically, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to platroll this thing. I get enough 75% discount coupons that just going in and buying a Loki prime set right now would cost me like 2 and a half euro. Which seems worth saving myself spending six hours in Interception.
Well, as of today. But it's DE so I'm not going to be shocked if in the next few days they go "Haha, whoops! Forgot about the bounty tables!"
0
NEO|PhyteThey follow the stars, bound together.Strands in a braid till the end.Registered Userregular
Very true. With how often this happens you'd think they'd set up a checklist or something with all their common goofs like "update drop tables" or "add to codex"
It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
0
DaimarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
If it is accepted that players are willing to spend Plat on Prime Parts why not just add a system that makes that simpler. Being able to put a stack of Prime Parts in a player market and then someone buys those parts while I am sleeping would be really nice.
A question asked since the dawn of time.
With Maroo's Bazaar and "Trade Pose" we are slowly getting there.
But it will probably never happen because it would pretty much ruin the plat economy.
I don't see how it would ruin the whole economy. It would definitely be different than it is now which would likely upset a lot of people who are used to how it is now, and delight people who have a lot of time to play the market. That may be what DE may want to discourage since if there was an auction system similar to EVE Online for example there would just be people doing that and not bothering with the actual game, which I imagine there are a few people doing now but they're limited by a daily trade limit and somewhat clunky system.
Not like they couldn't put limits on how many of some items one can buy per day either, e.g. no more than 2 of one prime part, 10 of a gem/fish, etc.
Right. they could do that to try and counter the "day traders", but this would make it suck for everyone else too. I buy bulk prime parts for ducat butter if I don't feel like farming. But any kind of passive sale system would ruin the economy in sense that it would likely hand the market over to those people who have a lot of time to game the system, particularly with prime "junk."
so... idk, it's an inconvenience I can live with because the alternative requires a minutiae of altruism that simply doesn't exist.
I guess I don't see this point well enough. Like, if you keep a X trade limit per day, plus have all the players everywhere feeding the market and lowering prices to offset each other, wouldn't things more or less balance out? We already have an external site so everyone can see what the prices are, its just extra loops to jump through atm.
I could see worries about parts selling for cheaper than currently, so if you primarily sell things to make Plat I'd feel legitimately concerned about the market having lower prices with people undercutting each other. But even then, a trade limit would have to mean a posting limit, and people working too hard to undercut someone would have limited capacity to do so and make any kind of profit. feels like that would be self-defeating ultimately.
But like, things that are currently cheap being more expensive? I don't see that. If everyone still has a trade limit, all the people trying to abuse the system would snatch up the cheap and couldn't sell anything that day. Then more people would post cheap stuff for parts! And those trying to game the system would almost be gaming themselves. At least to a point. But my understanding of all of this is limited.
or are you worried there's a large newbie base that would compete with you to buy up all the cheap parts for more ducats if trade was easier to understand? (cuz if there was an auction house, I could definitely see it getting heated while the void trader's in town). But this would just reward people who think ahead and buy cheap parts in the off weeks. Plus, there'd prolly be an influx of higher numbers of people posting ducat fodder with the trader around, so to be competitive the prices prolly couldn't raise too much.
It would require relearning, which is a pain. But I still think the overall convenience is definitely something people expect and want nowadays. Not a huge issue, just wondering if I'm misreading you.
Edit: i'm not a business person or an economist, but I do find video game online markets fascinating, in their own way. The conventional wisdom is that AH's ruin economies, but I don't quite understand why.
Papagander on
“There are no happy endings, because nothing ends.” ... also, "Ah, turn blue!"
XBOne | LyrKing
Recently made the realization that relic farming exists to allow you to get prime blueprints, so I now have half of the parts necessary to make Equinox Prime. Thanks, randos, for letting me swipe a copy of the thing that you worked so hard to get!
Are there any real strategies for tracking down the other two blueprints, or is it just pure luck?
+1
DaimarA Million Feet Tall of AwesomeRegistered Userregular
Recently made the realization that relic farming exists to allow you to get prime blueprints, so I now have half of the parts necessary to make Equinox Prime. Thanks, randos, for letting me swipe a copy of the thing that you worked so hard to get!
Are there any real strategies for tracking down the other two blueprints, or is it just pure luck?
Find out which relics hold the parts you still need, you can go into the codex in your ship under the relics/arcanes and type in "equinox" which will show you all the relics which hold those parts, ones that are highlighted will be ones you own and if they are greyed out it means you don't have any. If you click on them it'll show you all the locations that you can farm them from so that'll make target farming a little easier.
Once you have some of the relics you need, let's say one is an Axi K5 for the Equinox BP, you can make it radiant which gives you a higher chance of getting the BP since it is an uncommon (silver) drop from the relic. Then you can join the recruiting chat and put in a filter for "axi K5" and watch for people who either have a group or are looking for group for an Axi K5 radshare and ask for an invite. Once there are 4 people with the same relic you run a mission to crack it and have 4 shots at the item you want rather than doing it on your own. Basically trying to concentrate 4 people's luck into getting the one item you want.
I believe all the relics that could lead to Equinox and the weapon BPs were part of the Bounty rotations on Orb Vallis and Cetus. You just have to check in every so often and get lucky in rewards. Or buy relic packs and hope to get lucky in Syndicates.
“There are no happy endings, because nothing ends.” ... also, "Ah, turn blue!"
XBOne | LyrKing
Almost got the Wolf's sledge handle last night, but i used up all my revives right before my group killed the Wolf. They would revive pets and each other with the quickness, but they never revived me once, the assholes.
Clans all have storefronts in their DOJOs that anyone in the clan can put up passive listings to sell stuff through. In addition to the trade tax, the clan takes a cut of the sale as well (so you end up losing more credits than you would on a straight peer to peer trade). The clan gets to keep these credits. Anybody visiting the dojo can go ahead and shop around at these stores.
In addition, alliances can bid on a number of storefronts in each of the "city" areas (relays, Fortuna, Cetus, Maroo's, and Iron Wake. Which would give Iron Wake more of a reason to exist); let's say... 10--20 storefronts per zone. Each individual alliance can only own ONE, though all alliance members can use it. They have to bid again every week, so if some alliance goes inactive, or just doesn't want to keep the front up, others can fill the gap. The per-alliance idea is to keep any one group from trying to monopolize trading -- you can't completely prevent it, especially in a free-to-play game, but this would give them an extra hurdle to jump over. This also means that yeah, you can have up to 4000 people selling stuff through one storefront. In this case, there's THREE sales dings: a cut that goes to the ALLIANCE (a pool used basically for bidding on storefronts, and then maybe for railjack stuff?), a cut that goes to the CLAN that put up the listing, AND a sales tax. Basically, you pay higher "taxes" to get your stuff more visibility.
Unlike a traditional auction house, this makes it a lot more difficult for a small number of individual players to monopolize the market. The fact that you have to be in a clan *alliance* means that you have to have *at least four friends* (personally, I'd even make it so that in order to have a storefront in your dojo, you have to have 10 participants in your clan in the first place), AND you have to have all the credits, AND if you're trying to buy up all of some trade item or whatever (say, all the unveiled primary Rivens) you have to spend the time to check 80--160 stores by *manually going to each of them*, and then you're STILL not seeing the thousands of individual clan stores, AND you have no control over the person-to-person trade.
The reason I'm for putting this many weird barriers in front of an auction house is that I had -- and, frankly, still have -- a very bad experience with Guild Wars 2's Trading Post, where repeatedly some asshole with a billion gold manages to buy up 100% of some necessary crafting material, and then holds the market hostage. I've had a much better experience with Elder Scrolls Online's, which, on the one hand, has a 3rd party tool (it aggregates sales listings whenever with the tool installed looks at said listings, so people can get a general sense of global prices), but it still means that even as an individual, if you're careful and clever you can find really good deals out in the boonies. Plus, it feels more like a community effort than "some lone asshole with all the time in the world and/or a bot sitting around flipping stuff literally all day."
*edit* Essentially, this lets you put up "passive" listings, but makes you have to work for them. People can still game the system -- hell, they game the system NOW -- but it makes them put in a great deal more time and effort to do so effectively.
If it is accepted that players are willing to spend Plat on Prime Parts why not just add a system that makes that simpler. Being able to put a stack of Prime Parts in a player market and then someone buys those parts while I am sleeping would be really nice.
A question asked since the dawn of time.
With Maroo's Bazaar and "Trade Pose" we are slowly getting there.
But it will probably never happen because it would pretty much ruin the plat economy.
I don't see how it would ruin the whole economy. It would definitely be different than it is now which would likely upset a lot of people who are used to how it is now, and delight people who have a lot of time to play the market. That may be what DE may want to discourage since if there was an auction system similar to EVE Online for example there would just be people doing that and not bothering with the actual game, which I imagine there are a few people doing now but they're limited by a daily trade limit and somewhat clunky system.
Not like they couldn't put limits on how many of some items one can buy per day either, e.g. no more than 2 of one prime part, 10 of a gem/fish, etc.
Right. they could do that to try and counter the "day traders", but this would make it suck for everyone else too. I buy bulk prime parts for ducat butter if I don't feel like farming. But any kind of passive sale system would ruin the economy in sense that it would likely hand the market over to those people who have a lot of time to game the system, particularly with prime "junk."
so... idk, it's an inconvenience I can live with because the alternative requires a minutiae of altruism that simply doesn't exist.
I guess I don't see this point well enough. Like, if you keep a X trade limit per day, plus have all the players everywhere feeding the market and lowering prices to offset each other, wouldn't things more or less balance out? We already have an external site so everyone can see what the prices are, its just extra loops to jump through atm.
I could see worries about parts selling for cheaper than currently, so if you primarily sell things to make Plat I'd feel legitimately concerned about the market having lower prices with people undercutting each other. But even then, a trade limit would have to mean a posting limit, and people working too hard to undercut someone would have limited capacity to do so and make any kind of profit. feels like that would be self-defeating ultimately.
But like, things that are currently cheap being more expensive? I don't see that. If everyone still has a trade limit, all the people trying to abuse the system would snatch up the cheap and couldn't sell anything that day. Then more people would post cheap stuff for parts! And those trying to game the system would almost be gaming themselves. At least to a point. But my understanding of all of this is limited.
or are you worried there's a large newbie base that would compete with you to buy up all the cheap parts for more ducats if trade was easier to understand? (cuz if there was an auction house, I could definitely see it getting heated while the void trader's in town). But this would just reward people who think ahead and buy cheap parts in the off weeks. Plus, there'd prolly be an influx of higher numbers of people posting ducat fodder with the trader around, so to be competitive the prices prolly couldn't raise too much.
It would require relearning, which is a pain. But I still think the overall convenience is definitely something people expect and want nowadays. Not a huge issue, just wondering if I'm misreading you.
Edit: i'm not a business person or an economist, but I do find video game online markets fascinating, in their own way. The conventional wisdom is that AH's ruin economies, but I don't quite understand why.
I'm not a seller as I don't see the point of wasting my time selling parts when I can just buy more plat to get what I want. I do try to farm for things in-game because the chase or pursuit is more interesting to me than simply having though. Unless the chase requires something stupid like those Nightwave mods, and at this rate the Wolf sledge. Uncommon mods or hammer head for lyf. While I make a reasonable effort to price check—and Warframe.Market is nice, but is not infallible—if I decide that something isn't worth investing further time into trying to chase through the game, I've spent hundreds of plat on items that I know I can get for less simply because that time is more valuable, even over GP. I would argue that the most valuable currency in this game isn't plat, but time.
Prime "junk" as a concept is fairly subjective as its definition lies not in the value of the individual items, but the time investment to sell them. A common component for a vaulted prime that you have lots of because the RNG really hated you back then technically wouldn't be junk for people today, while a non-vaulted rare can be considered junk if the RNG decided to not give you that uncommon prime part you needed because RNG is RNG. Either way a person is sitting on parts that they don't need, nor do they care to invest the time in selling based off its intrinsic value, because getting the plat is worth more to them... or simply not having "wasted" space in their inventory. I've had people toss extra items into a trade because they simply don't want the part. I've bought in bulk from people who just wanted to rush a prime build. While I think that's absurd, rushing builds is a thing that people do too. Anyhoo, some junk sellers may take portions of value into account in that they'll only sell common parts, and others don't... but the main thing that makes a prime item "junk" is the seller's desired time investment... (in that they have to be present for the sale). Removing that presence requirement, a Warframe AH would likely be flooded with Prime "junk."
With that said, I feel that it would ruin the economy in the sense that it would cause a significant uptick in the predatory habits seen in most games that have auction houses. While it was extreme of me to say that minutiae of altruism "simply doesn't exist" in my previous post, the very nature of our society just makes that predation come naturally... it's the "reward" for "thinking ahead and buying cheap parts in the off weeks," as you say. Controlling the market isn't really about winning that day, it's about future opportunity. In a situation where the prime "junk" is just there for the taking at any time it's going to go. One can sort through it, put together sets and sell those together for more. The "junk" gets sold for more because there's less effort involved in its sale, either via extreme hikes or the classic buy all the lowest priced stuff and raise it by a fraction of its price snowball. But the consumer generally loses in an AH scenario, as prime junk doesn't really exist for the folks not glued to their PC. Why would you sell something for say, 2p knowing full well that it will be resold for 5p and it literally costs you minimal time and personal effort to sell a thing?
So while I definitely think it's inconvenient, the economy of Warframe without an AH is way more desirable to me than the economies of the F2P games with currency that I've played with an AH... so IDK?
edit: also should add this is definitely a "feel free to disagree" topic, as it's such a dead horse. They haven't done it, and they don't seem to have any intentions of adding an AH beyond what they've done (Maroo) either, so... yeah.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
+1
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
Put me down for having an automated AH type thing.
I just don't engage with the current system. So any "rare" pieces I have will either turn into ducats or just languish in my inventory until someone in chat asks (and I see it, that chat window is not noticible) or I try to give it away like when I run out of riven space.
Same with getting that last part for a prime that got vaulted before I completed it, I just do without.
My main issues with the current system is that arranging trades takes me out of the actual game. I either have to wait for other people to finish their missions while I putter around in a dojo or orbiter, they do the same for me, or both devote time doing nothing but browsing listings, sending messages, and waiting for responses. Having to spend half an hour or so when I'm shopping or trying to sell of not actually playing the game to get sales done in a reasonable amount of time just isn't very fun.
That actually makes more sense to me, hearing it from the gaze of pro-seller vs pro-consumer. But I think overall there are still parallels. People will still sell for 2 pp because they know that's likely to sell in minutes, as opposed to hours. Like you, it doesn't make much sense to me, but people's time is their own to value as they will. For sure.
And yeah, I'm definitely of the mindset of agree to disagree. I just couldn't fathom what about the process makes it better for players/what really should be valued about the current system. Honestly, I kind of just see the current system as a forced barrier to keep RNG on the relics in place. Making the players come up with their own solutions to circumvent it. The only issue I'd have assumed DE had against an AH was keeping arbitrary steps in place to make ppl inclined to buy plat or buy frames to get around it.
Not trying to be anti-DE, just every additional gate or at least hurdle to getting what you want in a game like this extends the game's life-expectancy for the individual player. like you say, retaining something to chase. At least until a player gets frustrated with the system and moves on.
Thank you for explaining further!
“There are no happy endings, because nothing ends.” ... also, "Ah, turn blue!"
XBOne | LyrKing
My main issues with the current system is that arranging trades takes me out of the actual game. I either have to wait for other people to finish their missions while I putter around in a dojo or orbiter, they do the same for me, or both devote time doing nothing but browsing listings, sending messages, and waiting for responses. Having to spend half an hour or so when I'm shopping or trying to sell of not actually playing the game to get sales done in a reasonable amount of time just isn't very fun.
Yup, how many load screens/waits do you hit in the course of a normal trade? 2-4 load screens, and probably multiple minutes of waiting, because either you or the dude you're gonna trade with is in the middle of a mission. Can't think of anything less engaging than that experience. To me, it's definitely one of those things that bothers me - when I have to make the choice between actually playing the game, or trading.
This is the future. This is what we built. This is what we wanted. It must have been. Because we all had the fucking choice, didn't we? It is only our money that allows commercial culture to flower. If we didn't want to live like this, we could have changed it at any time, by not fucking paying for it.
So let's celebrate by all going out and buying the same burger. -transmet
The real reason trading isn't easier is because prime access makes them most of their money and lowering the burden for trading too much would put a serious dent in their bottom line.
That actually makes more sense to me, hearing it from the gaze of pro-seller vs pro-consumer. But I think overall there are still parallels. People will still sell for 2 pp because they know that's likely to sell in minutes, as opposed to hours. Like you, it doesn't make much sense to me, but people's time is their own to value as they will. For sure.
And yeah, I'm definitely of the mindset of agree to disagree. I just couldn't fathom what about the process makes it better for players/what really should be valued about the current system. Honestly, I kind of just see the current system as a forced barrier to keep RNG on the relics in place. Making the players come up with their own solutions to circumvent it. The only issue I'd have assumed DE had against an AH was keeping arbitrary steps in place to make ppl inclined to buy plat or buy frames to get around it.
Not trying to be anti-DE, just every additional gate or at least hurdle to getting what you want in a game like this extends the game's life-expectancy for the individual player. like you say, retaining something to chase. At least until a player gets frustrated with the system and moves on.
Thank you for explaining further!
haha, no problem.
Also would point out that an automated system of trade given the current way Warframe's dual-currency economy works would likely alter other aspects of the game. As it is, you cannot trade with credits, only plat. This is why the argument that it'd be "like RMAH in Diablo, don't do it DE" doesn't really work out. It could present a very strong the sentiment of "pay to win" though. Trade chat has bot monitoring already... so that bit wouldn't change much. I guess more of them? IDK.
So, do they add another non-premium currency type just for this system to prevent such a perception? For the sake of fairness, it wouldn't be viable for credits to be used, as some of us have millions, and others don't. Another discrepancy years in the making. Then, how would people acquire this new currency? As it would -have- to tie into plat, what would the exchange rates for this currency be?
If it's credits, given the disparity of how much credits people have and how that would play into this trade economy, those rates would need to be adjusted too in order to avoid skewing the population even further into doing some things just for credits all day and ignoring other content because it doesn't give as much credit. Either more credits to help people "catch-up" or less credits for activities. Or they cap credit gains? Assuming the introduction of a new currency, you'd also run into the problem of activity skew in the population toward more profitable ventures... unless its tied into time somehow or has its own caps.
If one assumes it's still just plat, naturally more platinum would enter the markets (good for DE), but with more platinum available, inflation would likely occur because the plat would be considered worth less than before. This system would also result in a increase of transactions too, making the perception of rarer as being less rare, as it were. To account for those, drop rates would also have to be tweaked. Just making an AH in a game that's been around this long really isn't a simple thing, it's a game changer at both a cultural (player) and technical level.
Prime Access likely supplies a large amount of the plat that enters the market. It also removes the need to trade for a given prime, and provides more prime parts via making the current cycle of relics redundant for the player. On console, it's cheaper to buy prime access for the plat than it is to outright buy plat. PC has the coupons, but you get months worth of plat every prime access drop. DE not doing AH because it would "make trades easier" and impact their sales of Prime Access isn't likely to be a thing.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Speaking of all this I managed to sell a prime blueprint I didn't want for 20p last night, and I have Nova cooking in the oven and almost done.
Going to play with her, try and sell more parts, and then decide whether to spend the plat I make on either Nova or Mag prime. Maybe try and get ahold of Volt prime as well, though I don't like him as much.
I really like Nova's copra skin, and if I like how she plays I'm willing to whale it up, buy some plat, and go prime with a skin.
PoE uses a similar trade system to Warframe, minus the trade cap per day. As a buyer, trade bots are the dream trading partner. They don't want to chat, they get the item right every time, they don't spend a minute looking through their stash for the item, they don't have to finish doing whatever gameplay stuff they were involved in, they're not AFK forcing me to message 30 people until one respond. It's a much better experience than trading with people.
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I noticed that his first ability lets you melee attack during it. That's probably a bug? I'm curious whether there are any other similar abilities that were affected by Melee 2.9 like that.
Hopefully that's not a bug, or if so they'll let if become a feature, because that might actually make that ability useful.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
The simple solution to keeping the framerate solid was...
A question asked since the dawn of time.
With Maroo's Bazaar and "Trade Pose" we are slowly getting there.
But it will probably never happen because it would pretty much ruin the plat economy.
I don't see how it would ruin the whole economy. It would definitely be different than it is now which would likely upset a lot of people who are used to how it is now, and delight people who have a lot of time to play the market. That may be what DE may want to discourage since if there was an auction system similar to EVE Online for example there would just be people doing that and not bothering with the actual game, which I imagine there are a few people doing now but they're limited by a daily trade limit and somewhat clunky system.
Valkyr's Hysteria now lets you swap between invincible melee mode and vulnerable gun shooty mode by aiming, though it still drains energy
Useful for building energy back up with Rage / Hunter Adrenaline
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Not like they couldn't put limits on how many of some items one can buy per day either, e.g. no more than 2 of one prime part, 10 of a gem/fish, etc.
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Right. they could do that to try and counter the "day traders", but this would make it suck for everyone else too. I buy bulk prime parts for ducat butter if I don't feel like farming. But any kind of passive sale system would ruin the economy in sense that it would likely hand the market over to those people who have a lot of time to game the system, particularly with prime "junk."
so... idk, it's an inconvenience I can live with because the alternative requires a minutiae of altruism that simply doesn't exist.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
Thank god. Let this never happen again.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Okay, so how does the -impact affect the overall damage of the weapon?
Looking at the wiki, impact is it's largest damage type.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
It doesn't affect the base damage, so the elemental damage is unchanged. All it does is completely remove the impact component and procs.
For ones that don't need a pilot kill, that one mission where you have to blow the door on the kuva fortress has like 6 dargyns that always spawn
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Yep. It's a Rhino Prime style unvaulting, relics only drop in void. And even then, most of them are at like 10% chances. Loki's systems are a rare on an Axi with a 12% chance of dropping on C rotation interception and survival on max level Void.
Basically, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to platroll this thing. I get enough 75% discount coupons that just going in and buying a Loki prime set right now would cost me like 2 and a half euro. Which seems worth saving myself spending six hours in Interception.
Warframe/Steam: NFyt
Just to nitpick, they also drop from syndicate relic packs.
I guess I don't see this point well enough. Like, if you keep a X trade limit per day, plus have all the players everywhere feeding the market and lowering prices to offset each other, wouldn't things more or less balance out? We already have an external site so everyone can see what the prices are, its just extra loops to jump through atm.
I could see worries about parts selling for cheaper than currently, so if you primarily sell things to make Plat I'd feel legitimately concerned about the market having lower prices with people undercutting each other. But even then, a trade limit would have to mean a posting limit, and people working too hard to undercut someone would have limited capacity to do so and make any kind of profit. feels like that would be self-defeating ultimately.
But like, things that are currently cheap being more expensive? I don't see that. If everyone still has a trade limit, all the people trying to abuse the system would snatch up the cheap and couldn't sell anything that day. Then more people would post cheap stuff for parts! And those trying to game the system would almost be gaming themselves. At least to a point. But my understanding of all of this is limited.
or are you worried there's a large newbie base that would compete with you to buy up all the cheap parts for more ducats if trade was easier to understand? (cuz if there was an auction house, I could definitely see it getting heated while the void trader's in town). But this would just reward people who think ahead and buy cheap parts in the off weeks. Plus, there'd prolly be an influx of higher numbers of people posting ducat fodder with the trader around, so to be competitive the prices prolly couldn't raise too much.
It would require relearning, which is a pain. But I still think the overall convenience is definitely something people expect and want nowadays. Not a huge issue, just wondering if I'm misreading you.
Edit: i'm not a business person or an economist, but I do find video game online markets fascinating, in their own way. The conventional wisdom is that AH's ruin economies, but I don't quite understand why.
XBOne | LyrKing
And some idea of it taking away "Community" and making the game Easier are the only reasons I've run into. Bring on an AH I say.
Are there any real strategies for tracking down the other two blueprints, or is it just pure luck?
Find out which relics hold the parts you still need, you can go into the codex in your ship under the relics/arcanes and type in "equinox" which will show you all the relics which hold those parts, ones that are highlighted will be ones you own and if they are greyed out it means you don't have any. If you click on them it'll show you all the locations that you can farm them from so that'll make target farming a little easier.
Once you have some of the relics you need, let's say one is an Axi K5 for the Equinox BP, you can make it radiant which gives you a higher chance of getting the BP since it is an uncommon (silver) drop from the relic. Then you can join the recruiting chat and put in a filter for "axi K5" and watch for people who either have a group or are looking for group for an Axi K5 radshare and ask for an invite. Once there are 4 people with the same relic you run a mission to crack it and have 4 shots at the item you want rather than doing it on your own. Basically trying to concentrate 4 people's luck into getting the one item you want.
XBOne | LyrKing
Clans all have storefronts in their DOJOs that anyone in the clan can put up passive listings to sell stuff through. In addition to the trade tax, the clan takes a cut of the sale as well (so you end up losing more credits than you would on a straight peer to peer trade). The clan gets to keep these credits. Anybody visiting the dojo can go ahead and shop around at these stores.
In addition, alliances can bid on a number of storefronts in each of the "city" areas (relays, Fortuna, Cetus, Maroo's, and Iron Wake. Which would give Iron Wake more of a reason to exist); let's say... 10--20 storefronts per zone. Each individual alliance can only own ONE, though all alliance members can use it. They have to bid again every week, so if some alliance goes inactive, or just doesn't want to keep the front up, others can fill the gap. The per-alliance idea is to keep any one group from trying to monopolize trading -- you can't completely prevent it, especially in a free-to-play game, but this would give them an extra hurdle to jump over. This also means that yeah, you can have up to 4000 people selling stuff through one storefront. In this case, there's THREE sales dings: a cut that goes to the ALLIANCE (a pool used basically for bidding on storefronts, and then maybe for railjack stuff?), a cut that goes to the CLAN that put up the listing, AND a sales tax. Basically, you pay higher "taxes" to get your stuff more visibility.
Unlike a traditional auction house, this makes it a lot more difficult for a small number of individual players to monopolize the market. The fact that you have to be in a clan *alliance* means that you have to have *at least four friends* (personally, I'd even make it so that in order to have a storefront in your dojo, you have to have 10 participants in your clan in the first place), AND you have to have all the credits, AND if you're trying to buy up all of some trade item or whatever (say, all the unveiled primary Rivens) you have to spend the time to check 80--160 stores by *manually going to each of them*, and then you're STILL not seeing the thousands of individual clan stores, AND you have no control over the person-to-person trade.
The reason I'm for putting this many weird barriers in front of an auction house is that I had -- and, frankly, still have -- a very bad experience with Guild Wars 2's Trading Post, where repeatedly some asshole with a billion gold manages to buy up 100% of some necessary crafting material, and then holds the market hostage. I've had a much better experience with Elder Scrolls Online's, which, on the one hand, has a 3rd party tool (it aggregates sales listings whenever with the tool installed looks at said listings, so people can get a general sense of global prices), but it still means that even as an individual, if you're careful and clever you can find really good deals out in the boonies. Plus, it feels more like a community effort than "some lone asshole with all the time in the world and/or a bot sitting around flipping stuff literally all day."
*edit* Essentially, this lets you put up "passive" listings, but makes you have to work for them. People can still game the system -- hell, they game the system NOW -- but it makes them put in a great deal more time and effort to do so effectively.
https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
I'm not a seller as I don't see the point of wasting my time selling parts when I can just buy more plat to get what I want. I do try to farm for things in-game because the chase or pursuit is more interesting to me than simply having though. Unless the chase requires something stupid like those Nightwave mods, and at this rate the Wolf sledge. Uncommon mods or hammer head for lyf. While I make a reasonable effort to price check—and Warframe.Market is nice, but is not infallible—if I decide that something isn't worth investing further time into trying to chase through the game, I've spent hundreds of plat on items that I know I can get for less simply because that time is more valuable, even over GP. I would argue that the most valuable currency in this game isn't plat, but time.
Prime "junk" as a concept is fairly subjective as its definition lies not in the value of the individual items, but the time investment to sell them. A common component for a vaulted prime that you have lots of because the RNG really hated you back then technically wouldn't be junk for people today, while a non-vaulted rare can be considered junk if the RNG decided to not give you that uncommon prime part you needed because RNG is RNG. Either way a person is sitting on parts that they don't need, nor do they care to invest the time in selling based off its intrinsic value, because getting the plat is worth more to them... or simply not having "wasted" space in their inventory. I've had people toss extra items into a trade because they simply don't want the part. I've bought in bulk from people who just wanted to rush a prime build. While I think that's absurd, rushing builds is a thing that people do too. Anyhoo, some junk sellers may take portions of value into account in that they'll only sell common parts, and others don't... but the main thing that makes a prime item "junk" is the seller's desired time investment... (in that they have to be present for the sale). Removing that presence requirement, a Warframe AH would likely be flooded with Prime "junk."
With that said, I feel that it would ruin the economy in the sense that it would cause a significant uptick in the predatory habits seen in most games that have auction houses. While it was extreme of me to say that minutiae of altruism "simply doesn't exist" in my previous post, the very nature of our society just makes that predation come naturally... it's the "reward" for "thinking ahead and buying cheap parts in the off weeks," as you say. Controlling the market isn't really about winning that day, it's about future opportunity. In a situation where the prime "junk" is just there for the taking at any time it's going to go. One can sort through it, put together sets and sell those together for more. The "junk" gets sold for more because there's less effort involved in its sale, either via extreme hikes or the classic buy all the lowest priced stuff and raise it by a fraction of its price snowball. But the consumer generally loses in an AH scenario, as prime junk doesn't really exist for the folks not glued to their PC. Why would you sell something for say, 2p knowing full well that it will be resold for 5p and it literally costs you minimal time and personal effort to sell a thing?
So while I definitely think it's inconvenient, the economy of Warframe without an AH is way more desirable to me than the economies of the F2P games with currency that I've played with an AH... so IDK?
edit: also should add this is definitely a "feel free to disagree" topic, as it's such a dead horse. They haven't done it, and they don't seem to have any intentions of adding an AH beyond what they've done (Maroo) either, so... yeah.
I just don't engage with the current system. So any "rare" pieces I have will either turn into ducats or just languish in my inventory until someone in chat asks (and I see it, that chat window is not noticible) or I try to give it away like when I run out of riven space.
Same with getting that last part for a prime that got vaulted before I completed it, I just do without.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
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And yeah, I'm definitely of the mindset of agree to disagree. I just couldn't fathom what about the process makes it better for players/what really should be valued about the current system. Honestly, I kind of just see the current system as a forced barrier to keep RNG on the relics in place. Making the players come up with their own solutions to circumvent it. The only issue I'd have assumed DE had against an AH was keeping arbitrary steps in place to make ppl inclined to buy plat or buy frames to get around it.
Not trying to be anti-DE, just every additional gate or at least hurdle to getting what you want in a game like this extends the game's life-expectancy for the individual player. like you say, retaining something to chase. At least until a player gets frustrated with the system and moves on.
Thank you for explaining further!
XBOne | LyrKing
Yup, how many load screens/waits do you hit in the course of a normal trade? 2-4 load screens, and probably multiple minutes of waiting, because either you or the dude you're gonna trade with is in the middle of a mission. Can't think of anything less engaging than that experience. To me, it's definitely one of those things that bothers me - when I have to make the choice between actually playing the game, or trading.
So let's celebrate by all going out and buying the same burger. -transmet
haha, no problem.
Also would point out that an automated system of trade given the current way Warframe's dual-currency economy works would likely alter other aspects of the game. As it is, you cannot trade with credits, only plat. This is why the argument that it'd be "like RMAH in Diablo, don't do it DE" doesn't really work out. It could present a very strong the sentiment of "pay to win" though. Trade chat has bot monitoring already... so that bit wouldn't change much. I guess more of them? IDK.
So, do they add another non-premium currency type just for this system to prevent such a perception? For the sake of fairness, it wouldn't be viable for credits to be used, as some of us have millions, and others don't. Another discrepancy years in the making. Then, how would people acquire this new currency? As it would -have- to tie into plat, what would the exchange rates for this currency be?
If it's credits, given the disparity of how much credits people have and how that would play into this trade economy, those rates would need to be adjusted too in order to avoid skewing the population even further into doing some things just for credits all day and ignoring other content because it doesn't give as much credit. Either more credits to help people "catch-up" or less credits for activities. Or they cap credit gains? Assuming the introduction of a new currency, you'd also run into the problem of activity skew in the population toward more profitable ventures... unless its tied into time somehow or has its own caps.
If one assumes it's still just plat, naturally more platinum would enter the markets (good for DE), but with more platinum available, inflation would likely occur because the plat would be considered worth less than before. This system would also result in a increase of transactions too, making the perception of rarer as being less rare, as it were. To account for those, drop rates would also have to be tweaked. Just making an AH in a game that's been around this long really isn't a simple thing, it's a game changer at both a cultural (player) and technical level.
Prime Access likely supplies a large amount of the plat that enters the market. It also removes the need to trade for a given prime, and provides more prime parts via making the current cycle of relics redundant for the player. On console, it's cheaper to buy prime access for the plat than it is to outright buy plat. PC has the coupons, but you get months worth of plat every prime access drop. DE not doing AH because it would "make trades easier" and impact their sales of Prime Access isn't likely to be a thing.
Going to play with her, try and sell more parts, and then decide whether to spend the plat I make on either Nova or Mag prime. Maybe try and get ahold of Volt prime as well, though I don't like him as much.
I really like Nova's copra skin, and if I like how she plays I'm willing to whale it up, buy some plat, and go prime with a skin.