So Washington is now in 7th place behind Florida in terms of cases.
Also, I'm really worried about expedia. They employ 22,000 people and they have pretty much no customers for the time being.
And they had just laid off 3000 people even before this virus stuff started.
Their campus is just down the hill from my apartment. I saw their shuttles going to and fro like clockwork, every day before Inslee gave the lockdown order.
They never should have moved over to Seattle. I don't know what the fuck they were thinking. Not only is it more expensive here, but most of their workforce lives on the East Side. Those people planned their lives around working for companies that were never supposed to leave the company town that is Bellevue.
Seattle City Council just unanimously passed a resolution urging state and feds to cancel all rent and mortgage payments in Seattle during the crisis
Cancel as in... cancel? As in once this ends people won't be hit with a bill for 3 months of rent at once or something? I know it's just "urging" or whatnot, but I'm curious what the City Council is thinking.
Seattle City Council just unanimously passed a resolution urging state and feds to cancel all rent and mortgage payments in Seattle during the crisis
Cancel as in... cancel? As in once this ends people won't be hit with a bill for 3 months of rent at once or something? I know it's just "urging" or whatnot, but I'm curious what the City Council is thinking.
Cancel yes and its a good idea. Everyone should feel the pain of things shutting down. Else we simply transfer wealth to land owners. There should be nationwide rent cancelations, as well as mortgage, and debt holds (ie no payments necessary, no interest accrues during the period)
Seattle City Council just unanimously passed a resolution urging state and feds to cancel all rent and mortgage payments in Seattle during the crisis
Cancel as in... cancel? As in once this ends people won't be hit with a bill for 3 months of rent at once or something? I know it's just "urging" or whatnot, but I'm curious what the City Council is thinking.
Cancel yes and its a good idea. Everyone should feel the pain of things shutting down. Else we simply transfer wealth to land owners. There should be nationwide rent cancelations, as well as mortgage, and debt holds (ie no payments necessary, no interest accrues during the period)
If the working class doesn't get to work the owning class has no right to rents.
Seattle City Council just unanimously passed a resolution urging state and feds to cancel all rent and mortgage payments in Seattle during the crisis
Just in Seattle?
Just read the resolution; they call for it everywhere. Here's the text (minus all the whereases and preambling):
BE IT RESOLVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL OF THE CITY OF SEATTLE THAT:
Section 1. The Seattle City Council calls on Governor Inslee:
A. To use emergency powers to impose an immediate moratorium on residential and commercial rent payments, such that no Seattleite should be required to pay rent during this health emergency or accumulate debt for unpaid rent; and
B. To call on federal legislators and President Trump’s administration to impose an immediate moratorium on residential and commercial mortgage payments, such that no owner of Seattle property should be required to pay mortgage during this health emergency or accumulate additional debt for unpaid mortgage payments.
Section 2. The Seattle City Council calls on members of the United States Congress, specifically Representatives Pramila Jayapal, Adam Smith, and Financial Services Committee Chair Maxine Waters, and Senators Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell, to impose an immediate moratorium on residential and commercial mortgage payments and rents, such that no owner of property in the nation should be required to pay mortgage during this health emergency or accumulate additional debt for unpaid mortgage payments, and no renter in the nation should be required to pay rent during this health emergency or accumulate debt for unpaid rent.
Section 3. The Seattle City Council calls on President Trump to issue an executive order to impose an immediate moratorium on residential and commercial mortgage payments and rents, such that no owner of property in the nation should be required to pay mortgage during this health emergency or accumulate additional debt for unpaid mortgage payments, and no renter in the nation should be required to pay rent during this health emergency or accumulate debt for unpaid rent.
Section 4. The City Council requests that the Office of Intergovernmental Relations deliver copies of this resolution, upon adoption, to Governor Jay Inslee, United States Representatives Pramila Jayapal, Adam Smith, and Maxine Waters, United States Senators Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell, and President Donald Trump.
If I'm renting out a house that I have a mortgage on, they'll tell me to go fuck myself, right?
They're also asking for a pause in mortgage payments. The same mortgage amount will still be due after, but it would equivalently lighten your load if the recommendations were acted on
If I'm renting out a house that I have a mortgage on, they'll tell me to go fuck myself, right?
They're also asking for a pause in mortgage payments. The same mortgage amount will still be due after, but it would equivalently lighten your load if the recommendations were acted on
From the resolution:
B. To call on federal legislators and President Trump’s administration to impose an immediate moratorium on residential and commercial mortgage payments[...]
It would have been easier and more clear to write "yes, they'll tell you to go fuck yourself."
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WeaverWho are you?What do you want?Registered Userregular
Well unless they act on that super quick I'm just gonna pay my rent like normal in two days.
Specifically because it's asking the federal government to do something good when it sucks? I want to make sure you aren't implying something about the legalese which I don't trust myself on :P
Specifically because it's asking the federal government to do something good when it sucks? I want to make sure you aren't implying something about the legalese which I don't trust myself on :P
I have no faith that the Republican Senate and Donald Trump will do something to help people at the expense of banks, and pretending like they will is acting entirely in bad faith.
Doc on
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
I hate to shit in the punchbowl but is there even a legal method for canceling rent?
I realize we live in interesting times but every time something new like “let’s just cancel rent” comes up in this thread everyone gets all excited like it’s gonna happen right away with no pushback or repercussions.
Even under an emergency proclamation we do not live in a socialist dictatorship. The state, if not the federal government, is bound by the strictures of the State Constitution and laws passed subsequently by the legislature.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I hate to shit in the punchbowl but is there even a legal method for canceling rent?
I realize we live in interesting times but every time something new like “let’s just cancel rent” comes up in this thread everyone gets all excited like it’s gonna happen right away with no pushback or repercussions.
Even under an emergency proclamation we do not live in a socialist dictatorship. The state, if not the federal government, is bound by the strictures of the State Constitution and laws passed subsequently by the legislature.
Our state constitution isn't a suicide pact.
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Nice and pithy but it doesn’t address my point.
So far everything Inslee has done can be covered under the emergency powers he’s been granted.
If you start getting into wealth transfer and unilaterally breaking contracts that’s a whole other ballgame.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
Pandemics are whole other ballgames. The governor should do everything he can to make sure people don't end up on the street at the end of this crisis because a bunch of banks are demanding there be blood for the blood god.
According to the seattle times, hospitalizations for diseases with Covid19 like symptoms are down 20% week over week.
Cross our fingers that people (and more importantly, businesses and politicians) realize that the flat part of the curve still means the line is way above zero and we cannot go back to business-as-usual until it’s very close to zero.
knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
This whole time my brother and his wife and my 2.5 year old niece have been safely isolated in the Marshall Islands for work but they have to come back in July for a month and a half.
This is still going to be a problem in July, isn’t it.
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
This whole time my brother and his wife and my 2.5 year old niece have been safely isolated in the Marshall Islands for work but they have to come back in July for a month and a half.
This is still going to be a problem in July, isn’t it.
This whole time my brother and his wife and my 2.5 year old niece have been safely isolated in the Marshall Islands for work but they have to come back in July for a month and a half.
This is still going to be a problem in July, isn’t it.
I think the most likely outcome is that the quarantine is lifted, but we assume that everyone is already infected and you have to wear a mask and hand sanitizer.
We can't do that now because the supplies aren't available.
This whole time my brother and his wife and my 2.5 year old niece have been safely isolated in the Marshall Islands for work but they have to come back in July for a month and a half.
This is still going to be a problem in July, isn’t it.
I think the most likely outcome is that the quarantine is lifted, but we assume that everyone is already infected and you have to wear a mask and hand sanitizer.
We can't do that now because the supplies aren't available.
This whole time my brother and his wife and my 2.5 year old niece have been safely isolated in the Marshall Islands for work but they have to come back in July for a month and a half.
This is still going to be a problem in July, isn’t it.
I think the most likely outcome is that the quarantine is lifted, but we assume that everyone is already infected and you have to wear a mask and hand sanitizer.
We can't do that now because the supplies aren't available.
Also lots of testing. Like millions a day testing
Testing is great, but it assumes a best case scenario where everyone is responsible. All it takes is one jackass who doesn't take it seriously and who infects everyone who thought they had a clean bill of health. And I would say that 40% of the population are jackasses.
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MeeqeLord of the pants most fancySomeplace amazingRegistered Userregular
There are really only two end states: herd immunity or mass vaccinations. We eventually get to herd immunity when enough people have had it. Given how nasty this thing appears to be, thats inhumane. We should stay on social distancing with mass testing to contain spread long enough for vaccinations to eventually be developed. Effective therapy would also be an acceptable point to start opening things up, but thats only if they are widely available.
What we are actually going to get is anyone's guess. The second bounce model after an inadequete period of shutdown has me worried, but what the govt is going to order, and what people will do in response, are hard to predict.
There are really only two end states: herd immunity or mass vaccinations. We eventually get to herd immunity when enough people have had it. Given how nasty this thing appears to be, thats inhumane. We should stay on social distancing with mass testing to contain spread long enough for vaccinations to eventually be developed. Effective therapy would also be an acceptable point to start opening things up, but thats only if they are widely available.
What we are actually going to get is anyone's guess. The second bounce model after an inadequete period of shutdown has me worried, but what the govt is going to order, and what people will do in response, are hard to predict.
I don't think we can sustain the current situation for the year+ a vaccine is going to need. What we probably can do, given enough testing, is wait for it to get to a low level. Then back off the restrictions slowly. Keep them at the level that lets you do contact tracing + isolation of exposed people and we're good.
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
I don't think he disagrees with the premise, merely that it's at least pushing legality of the governor's powers.
Well Inslee needs to get on it. His half-assed solution to this crisis will put people on the street at the end of things. An eviction moratorium without a corresponding rent and mortgage holiday is nothing more than a temporary delay on guaranteed homelessness for countless individuals--most especially my friends and co-workers who still haven't received their first unemployment benefit checks.
I hate to shit in the punchbowl but is there even a legal method for canceling rent?
I realize we live in interesting times but every time something new like “let’s just cancel rent” comes up in this thread everyone gets all excited like it’s gonna happen right away with no pushback or repercussions.
Even under an emergency proclamation we do not live in a socialist dictatorship. The state, if not the federal government, is bound by the strictures of the State Constitution and laws passed subsequently by the legislature.
And the State and federal government has broad powers to regulate commerce. For which debt is just one form. Just like you can make weed illegal you can make charging interest on loans illegal and make collecting rent and mortgage payments illegal. Which means that yes. The legislature can indeed unilaterally cancel contracts. For instance. If you had a contract to deliver 1 lb of weed to a store in 1 week and then the legislature made weed illegal your contract would now be void (since it was for an illegal purpose).
Are we going to suggest that the government would be unable to show a proximate reason for the measures? That a court would suggest that the govt did not have a reasonable belief that it would be valuable/
I don't think they're going to do it. But they can, absolutely 100% its within their power.
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knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
edited March 2020
So it’s not currently under their legal power. I’ll concede that it could theoretically happen in the future.
How you gonna have the legislature pass a law when everyone’s under quarantine?
knitdan on
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I hate to shit in the punchbowl but is there even a legal method for canceling rent?
I realize we live in interesting times but every time something new like “let’s just cancel rent” comes up in this thread everyone gets all excited like it’s gonna happen right away with no pushback or repercussions.
Even under an emergency proclamation we do not live in a socialist dictatorship. The state, if not the federal government, is bound by the strictures of the State Constitution and laws passed subsequently by the legislature.
And the State and federal government has broad powers to regulate commerce. For which debt is just one form. Just like you can make weed illegal you can make charging interest on loans illegal and make collecting rent and mortgage payments illegal. Which means that yes. The legislature can indeed unilaterally cancel contracts. For instance. If you had a contract to deliver 1 lb of weed to a store in 1 week and then the legislature made weed illegal your contract would now be void (since it was for an illegal purpose).
Are we going to suggest that the government would be unable to show a proximate reason for the measures? That a court would suggest that the govt did not have a reasonable belief that it would be valuable/
I don't think they're going to do it. But they can, absolutely 100% its within their power.
They can do that, but they can't then demand that you still give the other party the weed. (Edit: without compensating you for it.)
At some point you run into 5th Amendment issues. I could see a judge agreeing that this amounts to the taking of privately owned property in service of the public welfare, because that's precisely what it is.
Doc on
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
At some point you run into 5th Amendment issues. I could see a judge agreeing that this amounts to the taking of privately owned property in service of the public welfare, because that's precisely what it is.
Eminent domain is a thing. We've never tested it in regards to the public need for house and healthcare in a pandemic, but there's really nothing stopping us from giving it a shot. The alternative is, as I've said, a lot more people out of a home at the end of all this.
Yeah, I'm not making an argument against it, exactly. I just suspect the state is going to be shy about putting a two-month hold on rents if it has the potential for wiping out state/county taxes for the year on those properties due to ending up having to compensate the owners.
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
You ain't gotta compensate the owners if you tell the banks to take a hike for however long this lasts. Ain't like they won't get dollars from The Fed anyhow.
You ain't gotta compensate the owners if you tell the banks to take a hike for however long this lasts. Ain't like they won't get dollars from The Fed anyhow.
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that only the federal government could make that deal.
And good luck with that when Kushner has 20,000 rental properties.
Posts
And they had just laid off 3000 people even before this virus stuff started.
Their campus is just down the hill from my apartment. I saw their shuttles going to and fro like clockwork, every day before Inslee gave the lockdown order.
They never should have moved over to Seattle. I don't know what the fuck they were thinking. Not only is it more expensive here, but most of their workforce lives on the East Side. Those people planned their lives around working for companies that were never supposed to leave the company town that is Bellevue.
Cancel as in... cancel? As in once this ends people won't be hit with a bill for 3 months of rent at once or something? I know it's just "urging" or whatnot, but I'm curious what the City Council is thinking.
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Cancel yes and its a good idea. Everyone should feel the pain of things shutting down. Else we simply transfer wealth to land owners. There should be nationwide rent cancelations, as well as mortgage, and debt holds (ie no payments necessary, no interest accrues during the period)
Just in Seattle?
If the working class doesn't get to work the owning class has no right to rents.
Just read the resolution; they call for it everywhere. Here's the text (minus all the whereases and preambling):
http://seattle.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=4408123&GUID=277DAD89-CED5-43B9-8480-62EEED2C8907&Options=ID|Text|&Search=&FullText=1
They're also asking for a pause in mortgage payments. The same mortgage amount will still be due after, but it would equivalently lighten your load if the recommendations were acted on
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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From the resolution:
It would have been easier and more clear to write "yes, they'll tell you to go fuck yourself."
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
I have no faith that the Republican Senate and Donald Trump will do something to help people at the expense of banks, and pretending like they will is acting entirely in bad faith.
I realize we live in interesting times but every time something new like “let’s just cancel rent” comes up in this thread everyone gets all excited like it’s gonna happen right away with no pushback or repercussions.
Even under an emergency proclamation we do not live in a socialist dictatorship. The state, if not the federal government, is bound by the strictures of the State Constitution and laws passed subsequently by the legislature.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Our state constitution isn't a suicide pact.
So far everything Inslee has done can be covered under the emergency powers he’s been granted.
If you start getting into wealth transfer and unilaterally breaking contracts that’s a whole other ballgame.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Cross our fingers that people (and more importantly, businesses and politicians) realize that the flat part of the curve still means the line is way above zero and we cannot go back to business-as-usual until it’s very close to zero.
This is still going to be a problem in July, isn’t it.
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Yep.
I think the most likely outcome is that the quarantine is lifted, but we assume that everyone is already infected and you have to wear a mask and hand sanitizer.
We can't do that now because the supplies aren't available.
Also lots of testing. Like millions a day testing
Testing is great, but it assumes a best case scenario where everyone is responsible. All it takes is one jackass who doesn't take it seriously and who infects everyone who thought they had a clean bill of health. And I would say that 40% of the population are jackasses.
What we are actually going to get is anyone's guess. The second bounce model after an inadequete period of shutdown has me worried, but what the govt is going to order, and what people will do in response, are hard to predict.
I don't think we can sustain the current situation for the year+ a vaccine is going to need. What we probably can do, given enough testing, is wait for it to get to a low level. Then back off the restrictions slowly. Keep them at the level that lets you do contact tracing + isolation of exposed people and we're good.
Well Inslee needs to get on it. His half-assed solution to this crisis will put people on the street at the end of things. An eviction moratorium without a corresponding rent and mortgage holiday is nothing more than a temporary delay on guaranteed homelessness for countless individuals--most especially my friends and co-workers who still haven't received their first unemployment benefit checks.
And the State and federal government has broad powers to regulate commerce. For which debt is just one form. Just like you can make weed illegal you can make charging interest on loans illegal and make collecting rent and mortgage payments illegal. Which means that yes. The legislature can indeed unilaterally cancel contracts. For instance. If you had a contract to deliver 1 lb of weed to a store in 1 week and then the legislature made weed illegal your contract would now be void (since it was for an illegal purpose).
Are we going to suggest that the government would be unable to show a proximate reason for the measures? That a court would suggest that the govt did not have a reasonable belief that it would be valuable/
I don't think they're going to do it. But they can, absolutely 100% its within their power.
How you gonna have the legislature pass a law when everyone’s under quarantine?
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
They can do that, but they can't then demand that you still give the other party the weed. (Edit: without compensating you for it.)
At some point you run into 5th Amendment issues. I could see a judge agreeing that this amounts to the taking of privately owned property in service of the public welfare, because that's precisely what it is.
Eminent domain is a thing. We've never tested it in regards to the public need for house and healthcare in a pandemic, but there's really nothing stopping us from giving it a shot. The alternative is, as I've said, a lot more people out of a home at the end of all this.
But if it is then so is the eviction hold. Its the hold and not the commerce restriction that is the emminent domain issue
Either way. If they sue and win we can tax them the amount back
Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that only the federal government could make that deal.
And good luck with that when Kushner has 20,000 rental properties.
That'd be tough without getting every non-landlord property owner in the crossfire.
Theyre already in the crossfire, being unable to kick out current tennents.