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[US Foreign Policy] A Generation of War

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  • TaramoorTaramoor Registered User regular


    It would seem we’ve officially chosen a side.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    The degree to which even her own party is throwing Rep. O,mar under the bus is depressing.

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  • RedTideRedTide Registered User regular
    Taramoor wrote: »


    It would seem we’ve officially chosen a side.

    This is probably timed to help Bibi shore up his support amidst his scandals.

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  • JaysonFourJaysonFour Classy Monster Kitteh Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »


    It would seem we’ve officially chosen a side.

    This is probably timed to help Bibi shore up his support amidst his scandals.

    Or it's the chickens coming home to roost. One scandal-plagued president throwing his support behind a scandal-plagued prime minister isn't exactly the picture I'd want to show. Let's face it, the U.S. government is in a crisis right now, and this is getting the Israelis pulled into that, too. Bibi better be careful, because Mueller might turn up that his government is somehow involved in the mess because of Jared and Ivanka and I'm sure having several of his officials named in a report isn't going to do him much of any favors.

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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »


    It would seem we’ve officially chosen a side.

    This is probably timed to help Bibi shore up his support amidst his scandals.

    Or it's the chickens coming home to roost. One scandal-plagued president throwing his support behind a scandal-plagued prime minister isn't exactly the picture I'd want to show. Let's face it, the U.S. government is in a crisis right now, and this is getting the Israelis pulled into that, too. Bibi better be careful, because Mueller might turn up that his government is somehow involved in the mess because of Jared and Ivanka and I'm sure having several of his officials named in a report isn't going to do him much of any favors.

    Bibi isn't doing so hot himself

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  • daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    JaysonFour wrote: »
    RedTide wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »


    It would seem we’ve officially chosen a side.

    This is probably timed to help Bibi shore up his support amidst his scandals.

    Or it's the chickens coming home to roost. One scandal-plagued president throwing his support behind a scandal-plagued prime minister isn't exactly the picture I'd want to show. Let's face it, the U.S. government is in a crisis right now, and this is getting the Israelis pulled into that, too. Bibi better be careful, because Mueller might turn up that his government is somehow involved in the mess because of Jared and Ivanka and I'm sure having several of his officials named in a report isn't going to do him much of any favors.

    Bibi looks to be going pretty hard right for the upcoming election, so the US turning the screws on the Palestinians will probably help him. Probably won't do much to damage American relations with the Palestinians, those are already trashed with the move of the Embassy to Jerusalem and the cutting of aid.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    RedTide wrote: »
    Taramoor wrote: »


    It would seem we’ve officially chosen a side.

    This is probably timed to help Bibi shore up his support amidst his scandals.

    I don't think this administration is that good at coordinating things. It just took this long to get the new embassy up and running enough to setup the Palestinian desk.

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • monikermoniker Registered User regular
    Trump blames Cohen testimony for collapse of summit with Kim Jong-un
    Donald Trump has blamed the Democrats’ decision to interview his former lawyer Michael Cohen on the same day as a meeting with Kim Jong-un for the fact that the North Korea summit ended with no deal.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/04/trump-blames-cohen-testimony-for-collapse-of-summit-with-kim-jong-un

    Turns out you shouldn't pull an all nighter rage tweeting in your 70's when something important happens the next day.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    It took a later interview with USA Today for our Secretary of State to learn about North Koreas press release in Vietnam.

    Brad Heath of USA Today: Pompeo appeared to learn of North Korea's diplomatic response to the halted summit during the interview. His first reaction was to tell the reporter: "Don't say things that aren't true." She showed him the quote from Ri Yong Ho.
    Pompeo reacted angrily when asked about the North Korean foreign minister's statement, made hours after the talks dissolved, that the offer Kim made in Hanoi was final.

    “That’s not what the North Koreans said,” Pompeo responded. “Don’t say things that aren’t true. ... Show me the quote from the North Koreans that said this was their one and only offer. Where’d you get that?”

    After he was read a quote from Foreign Minister Ri Yong Ho – in which he said “our proposal will never be changed” – Pompeo fell silent for about six seconds. Then he countered, “What they said is they’re prepared to continue conversations with us and that’s what we intend to do.”

    I am really tired of this bullshit complete reinterpretation of words thing this administration does.

    Reporter: " Direct Quote of X who said "1+1=2"
    Trump Administration : "What X is saying is 1+1= Potato"

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • VeagleVeagle Registered User regular
    I will say that, "Don't say things that aren't true. Show me the quote. Where'd you get that," has some amazing comedic impact for a written transcript.

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  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Trump blames Cohen testimony for collapse of summit with Kim Jong-un
    Donald Trump has blamed the Democrats’ decision to interview his former lawyer Michael Cohen on the same day as a meeting with Kim Jong-un for the fact that the North Korea summit ended with no deal.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/04/trump-blames-cohen-testimony-for-collapse-of-summit-with-kim-jong-un

    Turns out you shouldn't pull an all nighter rage tweeting in your 70's when something important happens the next day.

    So he’s saying personal issues impacted his job performance?

    I mean back when I worked for county gov if they were sending me to the state capital and providing travel and lodging for a week long meeting and conference and I shitcanned it after Tuesday because someone I had been connected with was testifying in criminal proceedings and I was stressed out and didn’t want to attend, and I stated that publicly as a reason, and my department was negatively impacted because of it(say denied federal grants or private partner funding), I am pretty sure I would get fired.

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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Trump blames Cohen testimony for collapse of summit with Kim Jong-un
    Donald Trump has blamed the Democrats’ decision to interview his former lawyer Michael Cohen on the same day as a meeting with Kim Jong-un for the fact that the North Korea summit ended with no deal.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/04/trump-blames-cohen-testimony-for-collapse-of-summit-with-kim-jong-un

    Turns out you shouldn't pull an all nighter rage tweeting in your 70's when something important happens the next day.

    If you’re innocent and the testimony is all lies, I’m not sure why you’d be so effected by it.

    I guess we should be glad it led to just a breakdown of talks and not anything worse.

    Gnome-Interruptus
  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    Viskod wrote: »
    It took a later interview with USA Today for our Secretary of State to learn about North Koreas press release in Vietnam.

    Brad Heath of USA Today: Pompeo appeared to learn of North Korea's diplomatic response to the halted summit during the interview. His first reaction was to tell the reporter: "Don't say things that aren't true." She showed him the quote from Ri Yong Ho.
    Pompeo reacted angrily when asked about the North Korean foreign minister's statement, made hours after the talks dissolved, that the offer Kim made in Hanoi was final.

    “That’s not what the North Koreans said,” Pompeo responded. “Don’t say things that aren’t true. ... Show me the quote from the North Koreans that said this was their one and only offer. Where’d you get that?”

    After he was read a quote from Foreign Minister Ri Yong Ho – in which he said “our proposal will never be changed” – Pompeo fell silent for about six seconds. Then he countered, “What they said is they’re prepared to continue conversations with us and that’s what we intend to do.”

    I am really tired of this bullshit complete reinterpretation of words thing this administration does.

    Reporter: " Direct Quote of X who said "1+1=2"
    Trump Administration : "What X is saying is 1+1= Potato"

    Somebody really needs to isolate "don't say things that aren't true" and replay the audio through a bullhorn any time someone from this administration makes a statement.

    Richy wrote: »
    But I think the resistance I’m getting more has to do with “rawr! Loklar said it! Rage!” than anything else.

    No, it has to do with the fact that you're done nothing but throw lies, blatant flasehoods, and downright dumb statements at us so far.
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    moniker wrote: »
    Trump blames Cohen testimony for collapse of summit with Kim Jong-un
    Donald Trump has blamed the Democrats’ decision to interview his former lawyer Michael Cohen on the same day as a meeting with Kim Jong-un for the fact that the North Korea summit ended with no deal.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/04/trump-blames-cohen-testimony-for-collapse-of-summit-with-kim-jong-un

    Turns out you shouldn't pull an all nighter rage tweeting in your 70's when something important happens the next day.

    This is one of those "He just tweeted it out" moments. It's like a direct admission he's unfit for the job on a basic level.

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  • ViskodViskod Registered User regular
    I don't think that's actually it. I think he wants to blame it on that because in his mind that makes it the democrats fault for... distracting him? I don't know.

    The real reason is obviously because his ego got hurt when his grand bargain offer was soundly rejected just like everyone was trying to tell him it was going to be.

    Artereis wrote: »
    It's not your fault, Viskod. 1 out of every 10 people just happens to be a monster.
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  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    It’s just his narcissistic tendencies. Nothing is his fault, always someone else’s.

    Not much more than that.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    The degree to which even her own party is throwing Rep. O,mar under the bus is depressing.

    For instance, this is a Democrat from California

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  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    The degree to which even her own party is throwing Rep. O,mar under the bus is depressing.

    For instance, this is a Democrat from California

    Additionally, questioning support for the U.S.-Israel relationship is unacceptable
    This statement makes me angry.

    What's unacceptable is suggesting that the nature of our foreign policy toward Israel is off limits for discussion.

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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Yeah. I really hope that progressives tear apart Democrats who spew that. Yes, I know that there is a huge backbone of bipartisan support for Israel. But that shouldn't be a shield for questioning why we do things.

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  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    now they're gonna put a resolution on the floor to chastise her

    very, very craven

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
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  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    now they're gonna put a resolution on the floor to chastise her

    very, very craven

    Is Pelosi allowing this?

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    Yeah. I really hope that progressives tear apart Democrats who spew that. Yes, I know that there is a huge backbone of bipartisan support for Israel. But that shouldn't be a shield for questioning why we do things.

    Tlaib and others are speaking out for her publicly but leadership seems content to let her twist in the wind. I wouldn't be surprised to see her get chastised in some way.

  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    now they're gonna put a resolution on the floor to chastise her

    very, very craven

    Is Pelosi allowing this?

    it is going to the floor. Pelosi isn't "allowing" it, she is the one who is doing it.

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
    Commander ZoomTicaldfjam
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Athenor wrote: »
    Yeah. I really hope that progressives tear apart Democrats who spew that. Yes, I know that there is a huge backbone of bipartisan support for Israel. But that shouldn't be a shield for questioning why we do things.

    They won't. Omar and congresspeople with views like hers are massively massively outnumbered. Just within the Democratic Party, let alone within the US political system as a whole (both elected and unelected hangers on).

    This is the power the Israeli lobby has over US politics.

    [Expletive deleted]
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Shorty wrote: »
    Athenor wrote: »
    Shorty wrote: »
    now they're gonna put a resolution on the floor to chastise her

    very, very craven

    Is Pelosi allowing this?

    it is going to the floor. Pelosi isn't "allowing" it, she is the one who is doing it.

    Yeah, don't kid yourself here about where the Democratic Party officially stands on this issue.

    Metzger MeisterShortyCommander ZoomTetraNitroCubaneTicaldfjamchrishallett83
  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    They're absolutely going to burn her in favor of some used car dealer or something next cycle.

    ShortyKaputaSmrtnikchrishallett83
  • AthenorAthenor Battle Hardened Optimist The Skies of HiigaraRegistered User regular
    Which is a horrid image. Like, this is the future they should be embracing. That is why I hope people mobilize in defense of Rep. Omar.

    Hope alone won't make it happen, though.

    Official member of the Grilling Gentry
    "Brevity is the soul of getting your shit read." - Tube
    Rarely-updated Collecting blog
    He/Him
    FencingsaxGnome-Interruptus
  • I ZimbraI Zimbra Registered User regular
    The house still hasn't censured Steve King for being a white nationalist, just in case you were curious about their priorities.

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  • ShortyShorty JUDGE BROSEF Registered User regular
    thankfully she's probably bulletproof in her district, so congress is stuck with her for a good long while

    Tube wrote: »
    I was legit hoping that Shorty was somehow mistaken and the world wasn't that fucked
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  • Element BrianElement Brian Peanut Butter Shill Registered User regular
    cool if this is what we get when democrats win then maybe i'll just never fucking vote ever again

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  • SyphonBlueSyphonBlue Registered User regular
    The degree to which even her own party is throwing Rep. O,mar under the bus is depressing.

    For instance, this is a Democrat from California

    Additionally, questioning support for the U.S.-Israel relationship is unacceptable
    This statement makes me angry.

    What's unacceptable is suggesting that the nature of our foreign policy toward Israel is off limits for discussion.

    What's REALLY unacceptable is people like this asshat telling me, a Jew, how I'm supposed to (or not supposed to) question things, and how I'm supposed to feel about the people who do.

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  • PhasenPhasen Let's Disrupt the 2020 ElectionRegistered User regular
    This Omar situation is why Pelosi has to go. I don't know how or why these people are so beholden to Israel and why any criticism of Israel means you're an Antisemite.

    Why is that the centrist politician position? Completely baffling.

    psn: PhasenWeeple
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    cool if this is what we get when democrats win then maybe i'll just never fucking vote ever again

    Yeah, cause this is the only thing going on today...

    Like, come on. This is what the party position on Israel is. And the Republican position is even more extreme and even crazier. The only way anything is gonna change is to keep sending people like Omar into government at various levels and just waiting for shit to slowly roll over.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited March 4
    shryke wrote: »
    cool if this is what we get when democrats win then maybe i'll just never fucking vote ever again

    Yeah, cause this is the only thing going on today...

    Like, come on. This is what the party position on Israel is. And the Republican position is even more extreme and even crazier. The only way anything is gonna change is to keep sending people like Omar into government at various levels and just waiting for shit to slowly roll over.

    "Wait until we die because we'll never change" is a hell of a way to go about foreign policy, but true.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
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  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    edited March 4
    cool if this is what we get when democrats win then maybe i'll just never fucking vote ever again

    This thing (how they are treating Rep. Omar) is shitty and wrong. We should all be outraged by it and make that voice heard.

    Taking your ball and going home does nothing to ensure this doesn't happen again and does everything to ensure nothing changes. Be active in the primaries, write your congressperson about how you feel. Don't withdraw with your anger, use it.

    Enc on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    Phasen wrote: »
    This Omar situation is why Pelosi has to go. I don't know how or why these people are so beholden to Israel and why any criticism of Israel means you're an Antisemite.

    Why is that the centrist politician position? Completely baffling.

    The idea that this is just Pelosi is baffling. Again, this is the position of the vast majority of the party itself. This isn't even just a centrist position. You'll find basically all your more left-wing democrats running the same line.

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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    This Omar situation is why Pelosi has to go. I don't know how or why these people are so beholden to Israel and why any criticism of Israel means you're an Antisemite.

    Why is that the centrist politician position? Completely baffling.

    The idea that this is just Pelosi is baffling. Again, this is the position of the vast majority of the party itself. This isn't even just a centrist position. You'll find basically all your more left-wing democrats running the same line.

    She could actually not move to censure her or whatever it is they end up deciding on. She's leadership, this is her party. If they slap down Omar its on her.

    ShortyYamiB.
  • Metzger MeisterMetzger Meister Registered User regular
    Then the party line needs to change. Holding the party line held up the civil rights movement in the name of "not rocking the boat" and "having more important things to worry about."

    The company you keep reflects you, and by my count, America's got some pretty shitty friends in a lot of ways. If my friend or co-worker was being a disgusting racist I'd say something. Silence is complicity, and complicity in an apartheid state cannot be sanctioned.

    ShortyJohn C. TurbineMagellDevlin_Dragonus
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited March 4
    shryke wrote: »
    Phasen wrote: »
    This Omar situation is why Pelosi has to go. I don't know how or why these people are so beholden to Israel and why any criticism of Israel means you're an Antisemite.

    Why is that the centrist politician position? Completely baffling.

    The idea that this is just Pelosi is baffling. Again, this is the position of the vast majority of the party itself. This isn't even just a centrist position. You'll find basically all your more left-wing democrats running the same line.

    She could actually not move to censure her or whatever it is they end up deciding on. She's leadership, this is her party. If they slap down Omar its on her.

    Sure, she could oppose the majority of her party. But, like, why? That's not what the party as a whole actually wants to do so what purpose is there to it? What's the gain here? Why is this a priority right now?

    shryke on
  • EncEnc A Fool with Compassion The Land of Flowers (and Dragons)Registered User regular
    It is worth noting that the Israel question is a concern that, while critically and lethally important, perhaps isn't the most important to the party leadership at this point in time and spending political capital on it when there are so many other, more immediate concerns is likely why we are seeing this response as so bizarrely disproportionate right now. Pelosi et al are using it as a whip to keep the party focused upon their current immediate party goals.

    And while strategically correct, as fracturing the democratic base over this issue is a really bad thing to do right now (and nothing is quite as divisive on the left as Israel), morally this is reprehensible.

    I feel Omar picked a right fight at the wrong time, and will likely lose her political support from the DNC for it.

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