As someone who plays a ton of Hearthstone, Arena is still significantly more generous even after nerfing rewards twice.
A full set of Standard Hearthstone cards is just under 2,000 non-Basic cards, give or take. The Classic set is 93C/77R/36E/31L, potentially a few more depending on the new cards replacing the Hall of Fame cards. Each new expansion set appears to currently aim for something like 49C/36R/27E/24L. Since a Legendary can only appear once in a deck, the full set should be something like 1,931 cards. Depending on what/how you count MTGA cards, it's something like 7,000+ cards for a full set.
Even if you don't aim for a full set, MTGA tends to have higher Rare/Mythic requirements for top tier decks than Hearthstone does for top tier decks. As an example, Matias Leveratto's winning deck including sideboard at Mythic III had 30 Common, 18 Uncommon, 16 Rare, and 11 Mythic cards - if you translated that into Hearthstone dust costs, it's the equivalent of a 27,000 dust deck. By contrast, Dog's winning deck at the Masters Tour event had 9 Basic, 7 Common, 5 Rare, 10 Epic, and 8 Legendary cards (one of which was Sn1p-Sn4p, but whose dust cost I'm going to count anyways), which would be 17,580 dust.
Basically, MTGA needs to be significantly more generous than Hearthstone, due to the size of the decks and sets involved.
I honestly don't know as to whether the extra generosity in MTGA is sufficient to make being competitive as a F2P player and more or less viable than in Hearthstone, and I'm a little curious if anyone has done serious math on the subject.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
0
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
otoh it makes more intuitive sense for a new(er) player (hello) than "modern" does, it instantly reads as "old cards"
True but I also think it makes it more unified with paper magic, modern and arena modern both have the same general idea but arena modern just has a smaller amount of cards
Legacy or somesuch might be better due to the Dominaria thing though yeah
I'm actually glad they decided to use a new word and not something that could be confusing given the paper formats and using the same word as a keyword for it is cute and flavorful (especially given that Dominaria is one of the first sets in it).
If the mastery track gave rare wildcards instead of mythic rare wildcards it would be over 9000% better.
Really. Those are the ones I always have zero of.
Jank-master identified.
More like a full play set of every rare land is almost strictly necessary.
Nah.
I mean, sure, if you want to play every deck. And I understand that the rare lands are the foundation that lets you do that. But I think that that's a pretty limiting strategy for F2P player. If someone was starting today, I'd suggest building RDW or Tempo Blue or even WW, and then building out from that. Splash green into the RDW for under-costed big creatures and craft those lands, or splash white and build towards a Feather deck and craft those lands, or splash blue and work towards a Phoenix/Drakes deck and craft those lands. Waiting until you've gotten all of the lands before building decks seems like an efficient but impractical use of wild cards.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
+3
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
Well, I can't get into the game. First I got a "use launcher to update" message (you know, the same launcher that was giving me that message), so I uninstalled and installed again, and now it says server down for maintenance. So, you know, yay.
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
I've not spent a single rare on a land and yeah sure it's not 100% optimal to not have all those sweet sweet checklands but I don't really care as I'm not trying to climb the ladder beyond gold at most and I've got enough gates etc to fill any gaps in the mana base.
Agreed that a f2p player doesn't have to go straight for the rare lands since RDW and blue tempo are super viable, but as someone who has been playing magic for over a decade, you will eventually want to own a full play set of every shock land, check land, and fetch land almost invariably.
They're all going to get reprinted again and again and they're all going to be necessary to be competitive for any deck with two colors or more in any format where they're currently legal. They're the single most surefire investment you're ever going to make in MTG.
0
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Alright.
First good step.
They are removing the purchasing of levels. And in turn adding in more spots to get XP along the way as well.
Hopefully they continue to adjust stuff more towards the better from here. Good to see there is already a response from them though.
Also current codes:
LevelUp: 2 levels
PlayM20: 3 packs
+4
ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
edited July 2019
So late last week a friend told me something that caused me to start saving packs I bought, and then when I realized something else about the game, I stopped buying backs altogether and saving my gold.
The first being he got a great performance review and raise at work and decided to celebrate by buying himself, his wife, and me the 2020 preorder. (Since for some reason you can't gift stuff to other players in the game, this boiled down to him Paypalling me the money.) The second being that, aside from me still having a large pile of gems, I had not realized you could buy packs from more than just the most recent expansion in the store. I just didn't see those little symbols in the pack store. I did now, though, so that's all good.
I'm not gonna list everything I got, it ended up being almost 90 packs so that would take forever, but here's my wildcard stash from before.
And here it is after.
The new mastery track is EDIT: a bit annoying fucking horrendous, but on the other hand I can build an entire deck now, so on an individual level I'm not doing too bad. The main problem will be if the new systems drive more casual players away as Wizards goes whaling. (To say nothing of the ethics of more manipulative and addictive systems, because while that's been a criticism that could be aimed at Magic since 1993, adding F2P game mechanics to Magic's already being a pay-to-win loot box system makes it that much worse.)
Apparently the cat pet has a spammable audio thing that you can't disable by disabling emotes?
Oh you can change the color of it
I didn't even think about that, when you hit the button to change the color it goes FWOOSH and changes color. Your opponent also sees it, so you could sit there and go FWOOSHFWOOSHFWOOSHFWOOSH I guess
ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
edited July 2019
Sparky also seems to have become worse. She's no worse (or better) a player, but her decklists have changed, and mostly for the worse. She seems to be more for you to fine-tune your decks to evade or counter removal, not to give even the modicum of challenge she sometimes could.
I was at first aghast that wins only seemed to get you 100 XP (or less) with the first level being 1000 XP, but then quests seem to give you enough XP to level, plus each level only seems to be 1000, not increasing with higher levels.
Mastery system still sucks and is v. horrible and exploitative.
Shadowen on
0
admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
All the levels are 1000XP. Quests are worth 800, first win of the day is 100, second and third are 50. Who knows what the bonus methods of earning XP will be but at least they dropped pay-for-levels.
All the levels are 1000XP. Quests are worth 800, first win of the day is 100, second and third are 50. Who knows what the bonus methods of earning XP will be but at least they dropped pay-for-levels.
Daily quest and ~4 wins has been my usual daily routine just for the gold farming so I went ahead and dropped some extra gems on the mastery pack to squeeze a bit more activity out of this and (let's be honest) get me a kitty. I (most likely) have a "free" draft coming next week anyway.
What is the difference between the 3400 mastery pass and the 5400 mastery pass?
The picture behind the 5400 shows additional things:
4 cards, some gems, and some gold.
What is mastery orb?
The mastery orbs are similar to the old mastery system players had when they started the game, except they don't unlock basic cards and decks anymore, just the alt-art cards.
As for the 5400 pass: because the season pass is limited-time and because you can only gain so many levels per day through wins (you can get more with promo codes they'll be periodically releasing*, as well as events, but as to what those events will be, and if they'll be free to enter like with the WAR ones, they haven't yet been clear), you won't actually be able to make level 100 and complete the track by the time the next set comes out. And once it does, all the rewards you didn't get, cosmetic and otherwise, will be forever inaccessible.
However, you can buy levels directly from the store. The 5400 pass gives you enough of an immediate boost to your level that if you grind you'll make level 100 before the next set comes out. The extra 2000 gems are paying for ten levels. I haven't been able to find where it is, but according to other sources, you'll be able to buy individual levels for 250 gems in the store, so you're "saving 20%" on those ten levels, which in concert with events and promo codes should give you enough to make level 100. That's literally all there is to it. The extra rewards depicted are rewards you should get because you want to complete the track, but can't because of the time gate.
Seem overly fiddly, complex, grindy, and unclear? It is. That's the point: confusing the consumer until they aren't entirely sure what they're getting but have the vague sense they should get the most expensive option and devote their entire life to the game because that will ensure they get everything. The point of games-as-service is to make the player need to play your game like a second job, except they're paying you, to get the most benefit out of it. It's psychological manipulation.
I was willing to grandfather in MtG because, well, it's MtG, if there's one game that gets a pass for being a game with pay to win lootboxes, it's this one. But then this happened. If they keep up with this evil predatory bullshit I'm done. I might still play casual games against friends but I'm not dropping another cent on this.
I'd be a lot less frothing-at-the-mouth mad about this if a. thinking about it hadn't somewhat spoiled my earlier card glut (also I got four more packs over the course of today's play and various promo codes, 90 packs in one day, wheee) and b. Jim Sterling hadn't released the video he that he released yesterday.
*They've already published one, LevelUp, that I think gives two free levels, as well as a code for three free 2020 packs, Play2020.
Jamming a bunch of arena last night gave me the energy to stay out after work at my local game store for modern night. So the drug hook factor is sure still there
7-2 in the Arena 2020 pre-release. Didn't much like my deck, but Ajani and a mix of random white/green cards did some work. There were a lot of weenie flier decks for some reason, which I mostly just smushed into the ground with aggro.
In the jankathon that's post rotation Bo1, the Elementals deck seems pretty solid as a thematic fun deck with a lot of different things to do. Risen Reef is just bonkers when all your cards cantrip (with incidental ramp) and Rare Chandra gives you two cards.
Also, if any of y'all play Risen Reef and you don't have a land drop per turn, don't use it's ability to put a land on the battlefield, put it in your hand so you can play the land untapped (obviously put your second lands onto the battlefield).
What is the difference between the 3400 mastery pass and the 5400 mastery pass?
The picture behind the 5400 shows additional things:
4 cards, some gems, and some gold.
What is mastery orb?
The mastery orbs are similar to the old mastery system players had when they started the game, except they don't unlock basic cards and decks anymore, just the alt-art cards.
What system was that? When I started in September the starter decks were part of the weekly/daily quest system.
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Turn one play ox.
Turn 3 gauntlets of light.
Feels good.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Posts
Jank-master identified.
Not entirely accurate:
A full set of Standard Hearthstone cards is just under 2,000 non-Basic cards, give or take. The Classic set is 93C/77R/36E/31L, potentially a few more depending on the new cards replacing the Hall of Fame cards. Each new expansion set appears to currently aim for something like 49C/36R/27E/24L. Since a Legendary can only appear once in a deck, the full set should be something like 1,931 cards. Depending on what/how you count MTGA cards, it's something like 7,000+ cards for a full set.
Even if you don't aim for a full set, MTGA tends to have higher Rare/Mythic requirements for top tier decks than Hearthstone does for top tier decks. As an example, Matias Leveratto's winning deck including sideboard at Mythic III had 30 Common, 18 Uncommon, 16 Rare, and 11 Mythic cards - if you translated that into Hearthstone dust costs, it's the equivalent of a 27,000 dust deck. By contrast, Dog's winning deck at the Masters Tour event had 9 Basic, 7 Common, 5 Rare, 10 Epic, and 8 Legendary cards (one of which was Sn1p-Sn4p, but whose dust cost I'm going to count anyways), which would be 17,580 dust.
Basically, MTGA needs to be significantly more generous than Hearthstone, due to the size of the decks and sets involved.
I honestly don't know as to whether the extra generosity in MTGA is sufficient to make being competitive as a F2P player and more or less viable than in Hearthstone, and I'm a little curious if anyone has done serious math on the subject.
otoh it makes more intuitive sense for a new(er) player (hello) than "modern" does, it instantly reads as "old cards"
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
The format name amuses me solely because of the Dominaria mechanic existing within it.
AC:NH Chris from Glosta SW-5173-3598-2899 DA-4749-1014-4697
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
True but I also think it makes it more unified with paper magic, modern and arena modern both have the same general idea but arena modern just has a smaller amount of cards
Historic is fine though, its just a minor nitpick
I'm actually glad they decided to use a new word and not something that could be confusing given the paper formats and using the same word as a keyword for it is cute and flavorful (especially given that Dominaria is one of the first sets in it).
More like a full play set of every rare land is almost strictly necessary.
Nah.
I mean, sure, if you want to play every deck. And I understand that the rare lands are the foundation that lets you do that. But I think that that's a pretty limiting strategy for F2P player. If someone was starting today, I'd suggest building RDW or Tempo Blue or even WW, and then building out from that. Splash green into the RDW for under-costed big creatures and craft those lands, or splash white and build towards a Feather deck and craft those lands, or splash blue and work towards a Phoenix/Drakes deck and craft those lands. Waiting until you've gotten all of the lands before building decks seems like an efficient but impractical use of wild cards.
I had a mini-stroke and read Echo's post as if the "Really" had a ? on the end of it, which would've read as if he was talking about Mythic Rare WCs.
Love of jank means crafting a lot more Mythics than most decks.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
They're all going to get reprinted again and again and they're all going to be necessary to be competitive for any deck with two colors or more in any format where they're currently legal. They're the single most surefire investment you're ever going to make in MTG.
First good step.
They are removing the purchasing of levels. And in turn adding in more spots to get XP along the way as well.
Hopefully they continue to adjust stuff more towards the better from here. Good to see there is already a response from them though.
Also current codes:
LevelUp: 2 levels
PlayM20: 3 packs
The first being he got a great performance review and raise at work and decided to celebrate by buying himself, his wife, and me the 2020 preorder. (Since for some reason you can't gift stuff to other players in the game, this boiled down to him Paypalling me the money.) The second being that, aside from me still having a large pile of gems, I had not realized you could buy packs from more than just the most recent expansion in the store. I just didn't see those little symbols in the pack store. I did now, though, so that's all good.
I'm not gonna list everything I got, it ended up being almost 90 packs so that would take forever, but here's my wildcard stash from before.
And here it is after.
The new mastery track is EDIT: a bit annoying fucking horrendous, but on the other hand I can build an entire deck now, so on an individual level I'm not doing too bad. The main problem will be if the new systems drive more casual players away as Wizards goes whaling. (To say nothing of the ethics of more manipulative and addictive systems, because while that's been a criticism that could be aimed at Magic since 1993, adding F2P game mechanics to Magic's already being a pay-to-win loot box system makes it that much worse.)
I can has cheezburger, yes?
I had a total block earlier but I can at least patch now
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Here is where im starting with M20:
8 Island (RIX) 193
4 Healer's Hawk (GRN) 14
2 Rustwing Falcon (M19) 36
3 Cloudkin Seer (M20) 54
3 Plains (RIX) 192
4 Curious Obsession (RIX) 35
3 Siren Stormtamer (XLN) 79
2 Spell Pierce (XLN) 81
3 Rally of Wings (WAR) 27
4 Venerated Loxodon (GRN) 30
4 Glacial Fortress (XLN) 255
4 Hallowed Fountain (RNA) 251
4 Empyrean Eagle (M20) 208
2 Depose // Deploy (RNA) 225
1 Sephara, Sky's Blade (M20) 36
4 Spectral Sailor (M20) 76
1 Hanged Executioner (M20) 22
2 Charge (DAR) 10
2 Sky Tether (RNA) 21
3 Dive Down (XLN) 53
2 Spell Pierce (XLN) 81
2 Dovin's Veto (WAR) 193
1 Unbreakable Formation (RNA) 29
1 Dovin, Grand Arbiter (RNA) 167
That flash, flying pirate seems very good.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Oh you can change the color of it
I didn't even think about that, when you hit the button to change the color it goes FWOOSH and changes color. Your opponent also sees it, so you could sit there and go FWOOSHFWOOSHFWOOSHFWOOSH I guess
SniperGuyGaming on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
I was at first aghast that wins only seemed to get you 100 XP (or less) with the first level being 1000 XP, but then quests seem to give you enough XP to level, plus each level only seems to be 1000, not increasing with higher levels.
Mastery system still sucks and is v. horrible and exploitative.
The picture behind the 5400 shows additional things:
4 cards, some gems, and some gold.
What is mastery orb?
Daily quest and ~4 wins has been my usual daily routine just for the gold farming so I went ahead and dropped some extra gems on the mastery pack to squeeze a bit more activity out of this and (let's be honest) get me a kitty. I (most likely) have a "free" draft coming next week anyway.
AC:NH Chris from Glosta SW-5173-3598-2899 DA-4749-1014-4697
Aggro decks always happen for a few weeks after a new set drops until the meta settles on the most efficient one and control and midrange get solved
The mastery orbs are similar to the old mastery system players had when they started the game, except they don't unlock basic cards and decks anymore, just the alt-art cards.
As for the 5400 pass: because the season pass is limited-time and because you can only gain so many levels per day through wins (you can get more with promo codes they'll be periodically releasing*, as well as events, but as to what those events will be, and if they'll be free to enter like with the WAR ones, they haven't yet been clear), you won't actually be able to make level 100 and complete the track by the time the next set comes out. And once it does, all the rewards you didn't get, cosmetic and otherwise, will be forever inaccessible.
However, you can buy levels directly from the store. The 5400 pass gives you enough of an immediate boost to your level that if you grind you'll make level 100 before the next set comes out. The extra 2000 gems are paying for ten levels. I haven't been able to find where it is, but according to other sources, you'll be able to buy individual levels for 250 gems in the store, so you're "saving 20%" on those ten levels, which in concert with events and promo codes should give you enough to make level 100. That's literally all there is to it. The extra rewards depicted are rewards you should get because you want to complete the track, but can't because of the time gate.
Seem overly fiddly, complex, grindy, and unclear? It is. That's the point: confusing the consumer until they aren't entirely sure what they're getting but have the vague sense they should get the most expensive option and devote their entire life to the game because that will ensure they get everything. The point of games-as-service is to make the player need to play your game like a second job, except they're paying you, to get the most benefit out of it. It's psychological manipulation.
I was willing to grandfather in MtG because, well, it's MtG, if there's one game that gets a pass for being a game with pay to win lootboxes, it's this one. But then this happened. If they keep up with this evil predatory bullshit I'm done. I might still play casual games against friends but I'm not dropping another cent on this.
I'd be a lot less frothing-at-the-mouth mad about this if a. thinking about it hadn't somewhat spoiled my earlier card glut (also I got four more packs over the course of today's play and various promo codes, 90 packs in one day, wheee) and b. Jim Sterling hadn't released the video he that he released yesterday.
*They've already published one, LevelUp, that I think gives two free levels, as well as a code for three free 2020 packs, Play2020.
And I want as many people playing that as I can get, because I have some favorite cards I just don't want to say goodbye to.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Also, if any of y'all play Risen Reef and you don't have a land drop per turn, don't use it's ability to put a land on the battlefield, put it in your hand so you can play the land untapped (obviously put your second lands onto the battlefield).
What system was that? When I started in September the starter decks were part of the weekly/daily quest system.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-digital/mtg-arena-state-beta-march-2019-03-20
Skip down to Mastering Magic.
Turn 3 gauntlets of light.
Feels good.