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[Anthem] Death from Above ! and Sideways ! sometimes even from Below !

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    tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    IDK, I think it's important to read things from the source and not solely through the lens of secondary commentary. This is precisely what the blog post says about their plans:
    So what’s next for Anthem?

    We hear your concerns on core issues in Anthem and are acting on it. Those systems require a more thorough review and re-working versus quick fixes. We’ve got a team working on that now, and early results are promising.

    In order to address these long-range plans, we are moving away from the Acts structure for updates. Instead, we have additional seasonal updates planned for this year that we think players will enjoy. These events will deliver challenges and chases similar to what you’ve seen, and are built around some fun themes we’re bringing to the game.

    As I’ve said previously, we want to be transparent with you that we know more work needs to be done to make Anthem better. We also want to ensure we’re backing up our words with a great game you can play. So I don’t have any news today to share about the long-term changes we are bringing to Anthem. What I can say is that we will continue to engage with you, our community, through PTS when we can show you what is coming.

    Given how long it took Cataclysm to actually arrive, building and developing new content for Act 2 while simultaneously fixing and adjusting systems isn't sustainable, and would just make a mess of things. It's like building another story on a house with cracked foundation. Or starting that work before the foundation repairs have actually set. Stating upfront that the roadmap that was supplied should be disregarded entirely instead of saying "Act 2 is coming" over and over again to a largely hostile audience would also not help.

    Or maybe this is the end of Anthem and why does its failure even matter? Like, seriously. It's one game of many.

    Source

    tastydonuts on
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    daveNYCdaveNYC Why universe hate Waspinator? Registered User regular
    SyphonBlue wrote: »
    daveNYC wrote: »
    The next two or three weeks will probably be key. BL3 just dropped and Cataclysm is ending, so EA will probably see where their playerbase ends up and make a call on what to do.

    No, them pulling the roadmap is them realizing where the player base was: non-existent. The game is done now.

    It's a shame, I really wanted to like the game pre-release, it was right to my alley in type of game. But they just made so many mistakes right from the get-go, from making an awesome Iron Man game except you can't fly all that far because you overheat constantly, to making you go back to base just to see what loot you got (in a loot game!), to boring mission design, enemies that are tiny and hard to see, basically requiring you group up for all missions unless you put it on Easy - except then you get worse loot. And a whole lot more problems than that.... It's a real shame. It had such potential.

    I don't think it's a good sign, but I don't see it as the final nail in the coffin since the whole roadmap thing had been dead for quite a while already.

    Shut up, Mr. Burton! You were not brought upon this world to get it!
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    ThegreatcowThegreatcow Lord of All Bacons Washington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered User regular
    For me I guess the tricky thing to see is how they can balance still resolving quality of life improvements they're referencing along with actual content updates versus the declining playerbase and the sheer fact that plain just more games are coming out as the year winds on. Borderlands 3 is out, and several more games are coming out for the busy holiday season and they have the dregs of Dragon Age 4's canceled and restarted development to deal with as well.

    Then again, ea does love them some live services and right now they really don't have a live service shooter that's new and fresh. Sure there's the battlefield and Star Wars games, but those are pretty long in the tooth by this point and I gotta imagine the bean counters over there would like something more than FIFA propping them up at this point. Still as others have said, I think at this point in the games life, unless they release a massive overhaul and content update, they're not getting those lost players back and the game will limp along for as long as they're making a positive cash flow versus the server costs.

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    SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    They will balance fixing the game with adding new content at a good pace roughly as well as they have been but with less staff and budget

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    tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    They will balance fixing the game with adding new content at a good pace roughly as well as they have been but with less staff and budget

    Where is it stated that they have less staff or budget?

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
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    darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    We had this back in May - https://www.gamesradar.com/dragon-age-4-becomes-biowares-next-big-focus-as-anthem-loses-its-lead-creators/ though I haven't had much luck finding any other reports that can be confirmed of less people working on it or budget.

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    tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    darkmayo wrote: »
    We had this back in May - https://www.gamesradar.com/dragon-age-4-becomes-biowares-next-big-focus-as-anthem-loses-its-lead-creators/ though I haven't had much luck finding any other reports that can be confirmed of less people working on it or budget.

    Yeah, and that was in May. The only major staffing shift since then has been that Ben Irving is gone. See:



    So... where is the proof that they have reduced staff or budget on the game? That's all I asked. Not following the busted road map is insufficient evidence.

    tastydonuts on
    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
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    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    The only save for Anthem in terms of "bringing back a large playerbase" would be to make the game part of the game COMPLETELY shipshape with FREE updates and then launch a large, heavily marketed (and paid) expansion. This worked for both Destiny and Division. Are EA and Bioware willing to spend the money and time to do this? I think that's down to what their accountants tell them about the cash potential of the game AND if any of the execs over there actually like the game. If they like the game, they'll put in the effort to keep it, look at Sea of Thieves or No Man's Sky.

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    tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Being that Anthem never had a season pass (or planned for paid DLC for that matter) and has subsisted entirely on microtransactions, I would venture to say that playerbase and cashflow is still there, even if the perception from the ground is "nobody plays Anthem."

    tastydonuts on
    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
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    darkmayodarkmayo Registered User regular
    darkmayo wrote: »
    We had this back in May - https://www.gamesradar.com/dragon-age-4-becomes-biowares-next-big-focus-as-anthem-loses-its-lead-creators/ though I haven't had much luck finding any other reports that can be confirmed of less people working on it or budget.

    Yeah, and that was in May. The only major staffing shift since then has been that Ben Irving is gone. See:



    So... where is the proof that they have reduced staff or budget on the game? That's all I asked. Not following the busted road map is insufficient evidence.

    Yea thats why I went looking to see if I could find anything that had some meat to it, cause I didn't remember hearing anything more about the team being slashed or their budget.

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    SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    darkmayo wrote: »
    We had this back in May - https://www.gamesradar.com/dragon-age-4-becomes-biowares-next-big-focus-as-anthem-loses-its-lead-creators/ though I haven't had much luck finding any other reports that can be confirmed of less people working on it or budget.

    Yeah, and that was in May. The only major staffing shift since then has been that Ben Irving is gone. See:



    So... where is the proof that they have reduced staff or budget on the game? That's all I asked. Not following the busted road map is insufficient evidence.

    Sorry your honor but I merely ask the jury to consider the situation and come to a judgement

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    tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    edit: Disengaging.

    tastydonuts on
    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
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    DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    the statement posted on this page is corporate speak for 'we have scaled back our commitment to this project'
    we are moving away from the Acts structure for updates
    is corporate for 'large content chunks that require significant new assets are prohibitively expensive at this time'
    additional seasonal updates
    is corporate for 'halloween and christmas themed events where previously used content is reskinned and altered slightly and given a new reward structure'

    it's possible that I'm completely wrong and that they are going to be pouring the resources that were originally planned to create new content into overhauling the game from the ground up... but um...

    all the cases where that has happened, there's been a reason why the studio simply couldn't accept a massive failure (except for ubisoft, who seem to have refining failed games as part of their business model). There's no reason for EA to send good money after bad in this case.

    also no live service is ever going to announce 'real skeleton crew hours up in here boys' unless they have to

    DodgeBlan on
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    evilbobevilbob RADELAIDERegistered User regular
    Oh hey it's shit up a thread for a game you don't even play with "game is dead" posts time again. Not like anyone was posting about enjoying the current content or anything.

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    ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Seriously. Cataclysm was some great content. I'm excited to see what's next.

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    Cobalt60Cobalt60 regular Registered User regular
    evilbob wrote: »
    Oh hey it's shit up a thread for a game you don't even play with "game is dead" posts time again. Not like anyone was posting about enjoying the current content or anything.

    Yeah, the "I told you so!" crowd is going to be out in force.

    But so what? I had fun and I still have fun playing Anthem.

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    dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    evilbob wrote: »
    Oh hey it's shit up a thread for a game you don't even play with "game is dead" posts time again. Not like anyone was posting about enjoying the current content or anything.

    Literally why I don't actually talk about this game to people or with people anymore.

    "Oh, you're having fun? TIME TO SHIT ON IT!"

    dporowski on
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    BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    I don't want to kneejerk against the negativity because I take these posts on good faith that they're not just spontaneously showing up in the thread to dunk on Anthem whenever some press release can be construed negatively. I browse the socials around Anthem and on videogame journalist websites (against my better judgement) and have seen far worse. And yeah, you know what? Writing on the wall is that we can easily interpret the message as "we're dialing down straight up content" for the immediate short term

    I have a more positive outlook on the long game, though, so my take isn't just "game's dead lol RIP BioWare", because people said it a few weeks into launch, they said it when the developers announced they were ditching the initial deadlines to the roadmap and they said it when Cataclysm content released. Feel free to "I told you so" when it actually happens, but if a smaller publisher like Gearbox can release new content for "dead game lol" titles like Battleborn for 17 months, I'm sure EA can shoulder the financials of doing one better for a game like Anthem.

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    SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    I wish I could have a positive outlook on this game because it's neat but I have a feeling ill be playing the next major content update alongside those Andromeda dlcs

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    dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    Ah, the other game I get shit on for saying I liked!

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    DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    evilbob wrote: »
    Oh hey it's shit up a thread for a game you don't even play with "game is dead" posts time again. Not like anyone was posting about enjoying the current content or anything.

    no one is telling you not to enjoy anthem

    some people like discussing industry news and trying to decipher PR jargon

    why is someone saying 'I interpret this post as Bioware saying they are going to invest less in Anthem in the future' a threat to your ability to play and post about Anthem

    DodgeBlan on
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    morgan_cokemorgan_coke Registered User regular
    I understand the players who are still playing being upset that others come into the thread and dump on the game.
    But here's the thing. Many of us were emotionally invested in this game and studio, and financially invested by buying expensive editions and spent money on microtransactions. And EA/BioWare took that money and faith and screwed us. Realistically, all you can do in that situation to hurt the giant corporation back is to flood their media and mentions and boards with negative feedback, so they know the audience and players are mad at them. Yelling at those folks for being mad they were lied to and let down isn't really productive either.

    I've been checking in here every once in awhile to see if they fixed the game or added content yet. The answer has consistently been no, which is disappointing, but at this point I'm over it and will not be buying DA:4, because I no longer trust the studio, and I will encourage others to make the same decision. You all of course, are free to make your own choices.

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    BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    They came out with an entirely new zone/event challenge with a leaderboard for the purposes of extending the story, gave players more options to straight-up earn the Masterwork/Legendary grade weapons people were pining for (in addition to adding a new class of weapons with new behaviours besides "pew pew") and equalized and improved rarity drops across the board by making them luck-agnostic, things which people had been spamming the socials regarding every single update.

    To suggest they aren't making fixes or adding content is disingenuous at best

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    tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    They came out with an entirely new zone/event challenge with a leaderboard for the purposes of extending the story, gave players more options to straight-up earn the Masterwork/Legendary grade weapons people were pining for (in addition to adding a new class of weapons with new behaviours besides "pew pew") and equalized and improved rarity drops across the board by making them luck-agnostic, things which people had been spamming the socials regarding every single update.

    To suggest they aren't making fixes or adding content is disingenuous at best

    Dude, it's the same maneuvering that you find in any other prejudicial behavioural pattern. It's not in good faith. It's just how civility is abused within the context of gaming discussion. Unless they seriously expect me to believe that grown ass adults, some of which have children, are so attached to a video game and company to not simply move on with your life over a $60 game, if they paid any amount for it at all. Or that their "deep industry discussion" can't even source something, because it's feeling nonsense.

    Miss me with all of this nonsense.

    EdiT: and before somebody says I said you couldn't engage in such stupid behaviour, I'm not. I'm just pointing out how stupid it is.

    tastydonuts on
    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
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    BRIAN BLESSEDBRIAN BLESSED Maybe you aren't SPEAKING LOUDLY ENOUGHHH Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Let's be fair, it wasn't $60 everywhere, even adjusted for exchange. I could easily imagine people forking out 100 or so down here in Australia, or whatever. I mean, would I pay $100 for Anthem? I don't think I would. I mean, I imported one of those stupid box-with-a-codes from New Zealand so I wouldn't have to pay ludicrous prices for a digital copy, but I don't begrudge people feeling disappointed with a purchase.

    On the other hand, people were making a big deal out of being ripped off when they went for the $15 EA Access sub to play the early-access version and today the proportion of people who go "I haven't played it since X/Y/Z but good to know the game is still shit" is not-insignificant. It's nearly impossible to come across anything on the socials regarding Anthem and not find unconstructive toxicity. What constructive criticisms are there are mostly drowned out by the noise of Gamers Rising Up, news websites have gotten comfortable couching any updates in negativity (to say nothing of the 'influencers' out there who need the click revenue), and I've generally made my peace with that.
    Like I said in other BioWare related threads, it's all white noise at this point. People will find something to complain about, informed criticisms or no, people who actually care about the game will submit anything of substance through their official channels, and BioWare will decide whether or not to act on it. Life goes on.

    BRIAN BLESSED on
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    tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    It's okay to not like things, but after a certain point people are just being dicks about it.

    And yeah, true, it wasn't $60 everywhere. But it was how many months ago, too?
    .
    IDK, gonna resume being disengaged with this thread for now.

    “I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
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    SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    people posting negative news in this thread isn't the thing that made cataclysm the final major content update for Anthem dude

    SCREECH OF THE FARG on
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    ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    people posting negative news in this thread isn't the thing that made cataclysm the final major content update for Anthem dude

    Saying things like "Cataclysm [is] the final major content update" is why there are accusations of non-good faith intent. Nowhere did they say there wouldn't be updates of similar size to Cataclysm, just that theyd be more seasonal and they were getting rid of acts. Acting like the game is dead when they are just shifting content strategy to be like literally all other GaaS offerings out there is ridiculous. Especially when they just had their best recieved content addition yet.

    ObiFett on
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    SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    No they didn't say that there wouldn't be, I'm not claiming they did.

    I still think I'm right though. The idea that this is a positive thing for Anthem and great things are coming down the pipeline is naive

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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    It's an unknown. There are reasonable ways to interpret this as Doom and Gloom(tm), or simply a realistic assessment of their priorities, resources, and time lines. Maybe it's good, maybe not, but the posts explicitly saying 'they abandoned the road map, guess it's dead' are neither constructive, nor absolutes. That person's/articles interpretation of the shift in development is negative, but we won't know with anything but hindsight.

    Frankly, I put plenty of hours into the game, got my fill of it, went to play other things. The Cataclysm itself was a larger content drop than the naysayers from a quarter or two ago would have dreamed coming out (the death of Anthem has been foretold since before it came out, any day now they'll be right), but making it a firm statement of fact is where, as is often the case, people get into trouble.

    Treating subjective opinion as objective fact is, honestly, where I think a lot of the ire and frustration comes from.

    It is possible that this will mark the drawing down of whatever resources Bioware is still committing to the game. Or maybe it's the beginning of a proper adjustment of internal resources and expectations. Other games have managed relaunches that wowed players, so however unlikely it might seem or feel, it's not impossible.

    Do I expect to find myself playing 100 hours of Anthem a week in a few months or quarters, such is the stunning quality of their updated game? No. But it's out, hopefully game sales covered enough of the development and ongoing cosmetics cover the cost of server/bandwidth/development, and maybe it just becomes something people come back to for a week or three every couple of months. Yes, from the perspective of a game company that presumably wants "ALL THE DOLLARS" as its profit margin, this isn't ideal, and that EA hasn't canned it outright is a little surprising (and frankly, kind of heartening). They spent the kind of budget a major motion picture gets, they have a vested interest in trying to salvage something from it, and as long as they manage to avoid going Full Evil in doing so, I'm hoping that it's channeled productively into an improved experience.

    So, people are certainly allowed to be critical, to be disappointed, hell they can hate it. But while we don't need to all be blind fanboy cheerleaders in the thread, I think we can safely say that we've all seen more than our fair share of anger, disappointment, and general negativity over the last dozens of pages since release. Proclamations of the game dying are conjecture until they're not.

    When EA/Bioware announces cessation of development/support and/or the shutting down of the servers, then we can all pour one out at the final marker in this story full of missed opportunities and potential. Until that day, is it really worth kicking the few players that remain while they're down, just to eventually be proven right?

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    SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    saying bad things about a game is not attacking the players of the game so I guess, uh, yes

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    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    I mean, this news is better than "yeah we're just not gonna do any more updates at all." But just doing quarterly events is a very risky strategy if the goal is to grow or even maintain the playerbase. Ideally you want a regular pipeline of cool, shiny stuff to keep people engaged and focused on this game. The original road map did that. This plan... well, it's going to give less incentive to the majority of players to stick with this instead of all the other games out there. It sounds to me like the strategy is to continue milking the most dedicated playerbase while abandoning attempts to pull in anyone else. But again, things are vague and slathered in corporate-speak, so we'll just have to see.

    Also, I know industry talk annoys some of you, but knock off the "it's not in good faith" slam. That's not what "not in good faith" is.

    cloudeagle on
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    shoeboxjeddyshoeboxjeddy Registered User regular
    edited September 2019
    Yeah some of you are using the phrase "in good faith" to mean "being nice and optimistic to the game I like", which is ironically a bad faith use of that term.

    shoeboxjeddy on
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    ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    No they didn't say that there wouldn't be, I'm not claiming they did.

    I still think I'm right though. The idea that this is a positive thing for Anthem and great things are coming down the pipeline is naive

    You said it like it was fact that Cataclysm is the final major content update.

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    DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    i mean ... even the most charitable reading of the dev post would seem to suggest there isn't going to be a major content update for like 6 months.

    EDIT: but i get it! you want to have a place to discuss Anthem, and considering the massive wells of negativity found online when talking about anthem any negative speculation about the future feels like it could easily tip into the endless beatdown found in other places online. I just don't think anyone here is doing that - which makes the immediate hyperbolic response to any negative speculation on the future of Anthem seem defensive and weird.

    And frankly, (what follows is speculation) how you could be Someone Who Follows The Video Game Industry Online and not acknowledge that of the two possible outcomes:

    1. the above statement by Bioware indicates a significant decrease in the resources being invested in Anthem
    2. the above statement by Bioware indicates that they are continuing to invest what they originally planned in Anthem with the eventual goal being some sort of Realm Reborn/No Man's Sky rebirth

    and not acknowledge that, WHILE WE HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHICH ONE OF THE ABOVE IS TRUE, the second outcome is waaaaay less likely than the first

    then maybe your definition of 'good faith' is 'blind optimism'?

    I mean, if what you're mad at is the glee you see a lot of places when we move closer to outcome one- yeah, i get that. It sucks to see people cheer the demise of something you think is awesome. But if what you're mad at is people using their basic critical thinking skills and arriving at the idea that #1 is more likely than #2 then it just looks like you want to believe that Anthem is going to be a rich and vibrant live service despite all evidence to the contrary until it is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE to hold that belief anymore.

    (this post is speculation and dodgeblan's opinion)

    DodgeBlan on
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    dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    Or, y'know, we just don't like sitting down to dinner and having someone come to our table and explain how eating chicken is killing the planet. Even if they DID "use basic critical thinking" to arrive at that conclusion.

    Or opening a beer, and having someone volunteer to explain how alcohol is poison.

    Und, as the Germans say, So Weiter.

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    DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    edited September 2019
    well enjoy your murderbird and dead brain cells then, MONSTERS

    DodgeBlan on
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    dporowskidporowski Registered User regular
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    well enjoy your murderbird and dead brain cells then, MONSTERS

    I wanna be mad at you, but that was kinda good.

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    DacDac Registered User regular
    Given how dirty EA did ME:A and its post-launch content tail because of the negative reception of that game, I don't think it's unreasonable to have dismal expectations for Anthem's future.

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    autono-wally, erotibot300autono-wally, erotibot300 love machine Registered User regular
    saying bad things about a game is not attacking the players of the game so I guess, uh, yes

    Yeah... You are not the thing you like. Stop trying to protect giant corporations that only want your money like they're family.

    I even liked Andromeda and am still sad there's no more.. But anthem is on another level entirely. It's jaded, cynical, rushed, lacking love and polish.

    It needs to fail so it's not attempted again. Or at least as often.

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