he doesn't seem wildly hard except that there's like two moves i haven't figured out how to avoid and there's one sweep i never jump over because i still have this problem after almost 40 hours
I'm burned out trying to learn the Final Boss or the elites holding optional Prayer Beads. I might start a New Game, glued to wiki so I can fix sidequests while I'm at it. I'm siding with the Easy Mode crowd right now.
Cantido on
3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
0
knitdanIn ur baseKillin ur guysRegistered Userregular
Question for PS4: if you start a new game on PS4 does it overwrite your current game, or can you have multiple play-throughs going at once?
“I was quick when I came in here, I’m twice as quick now”
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
I'm burned out trying to learn the Final Boss or the elites holding optional Prayer Beads. I might start a New Game, glued to wiki so I can fix sidequests while I'm at it. I'm siding with the Easy Mode crowd right now.
I'm burned out trying to learn the Final Boss or the elites holding optional Prayer Beads. I might start a New Game, glued to wiki so I can fix sidequests while I'm at it. I'm siding with the Easy Mode crowd right now.
Who are your troublesome prayer bead bosses?
The Spear guy with a wingman near the Ashina Resivoir shrine for starters.
I open with stealth candy and kill the wingman, but the spear guy always seems to get a lethal shot on me.
I found the hidden battle in the Ashina Depths that yielded two beads, so my morale is back up.
Question for PS4: if you start a new game on PS4 does it overwrite your current game, or can you have multiple play-throughs going at once?
You can have multiple save files.
+1
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
The only "easy" thing I definitely want in the game isn't an easy item, it's a no-brainer straight-up game improvement: give the different unblockables a different fucking glyph. I'm fine with how unforgiving the game is but I'm up the final boss now and I'm at the limit of my patience with having to do a dice roll on reacting to unblockables. They just do way too fucking much damage to having to hope for the best when pulling out a counter.
Case in point, right now I've died multiple times because this boss has a huge-ass thrust attack and a huge-ass sweep attack. The thrust is actually a combo and will straight kill you if the first part lands because there's also a backswing for more damage. The sweep will almost kill you. If you dash forward to counter the thrust or dash sideways to evade, you get murdered by the sweep. If you jump to avoid the sweep and it's the thrust, you get killed. The fight is full of grass that obscures the opponent, so trying to figure out which attack he's doing based on his stance with about half a second before the attack is just bad design.
And then in his final phase, he rolls out a new type of unblockable that requires being in the air, so making the wrong call on the glyph when it appears means getting blasted by one of the two other unblockables he does or getting blasted by a hugely dangerous attack.
With piles of enemies that can kill the player in 1-2 hits, it's just not defensible to obscure this kind of info.
Yeah, the symbol was always too distracting for me, even after over 50 hours. The game just screams DANGER at you and processing it just eats up too many milliseconds. The only time I could react with the proper counter was when I memorized the enemy's patterns and knew what was coming, patterns that could branch into multiple types of unblockables were always a crapshoot and required an option-select response.
It would be so much easier if the enemy's weapon just glowed red so you never got distracted from their animations.
about the death of your father when hes killed you so many times that when you finally succeed you are vendictive enough to want to shit in his corpses mouth.
God i fucking hate Owl. actually i think the main problem is the same problem with Genchiro...that arena is way too fucking small for the fights. Owl's range is insane, and those two damn suits of invisible armor by the doorway you can walk into while luring your target around can fuck you over every single time.
I did the best against Owl when I could back him into a corner. His moves were way more punishable.
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I've stopped looking for it so much as listening for it (the sound is pretty distinctive), but yeah, it definitely needed to be an on-weapon indicator versus something that distractingly floats over an enemy. Further, the visual style of the game REALLY does not match well with a one-size-fits-all warning for big unblockable attacks. On a human-sized enemy, the visual difference between them crouching back before a thrust attack versus pulling a weapon back for a sweep is NOT distinctive at all.
Even with making sure to address colorblind individuals, it would NOT have been hard to make sure there are distinct, immediate visual cues for each unblockable attack, placed in ways that let the player avoid taking their eyes off an enemy's pose that they're also supposed to be analyzing to react to. The game could've done the job just fine with smaller, but visually distinct, cues that come off from what the opponent is using to attack; it would fit the game just as well as a big, dumb danger glyph, without muddling extremely crucial gameplay info.
I had my worst experience with that on Corrupted Monk 2: The Monkening. For some reason the trees in the background would just constantly fuck up my view of the fight and when combined with the Perilous Attack glyph, I was having way more trouble than I reasonably should have. I would always try to keep the fight away from the middle of the bridge but I wasn’t always able to.
I really, really hate the shared glyph and I wish that at the very least, the audio cues were different for the different attacks. Ideally, the window for reacting to different animations (and therefore attacks) would be as forgiving as the deflect timing.
I say this as someone who is extremely happy with the game’s difficulty and power curves.
Is anyone else surprised at how Souls control habits can still sneak in after all these hours? I’ve been taking my time with Sekiro so I might not be doing myself any favors by not binging it, but especially when things get tense I still want to dodge away most of the time.
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Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited April 2019
I tended to do plenty of blocking in the Souls games so those habits aren't hurting me as long as I feel an enemy has blockable attacks, but even after 40 hours I still find myself dodging too much now and again like I'm playing Bloodborne. Blocking actually works more often than not so dodging is often actually a bad idea since you can get hit on a screwup, but I'm still trying to shake the habit.
Even against hits that damage through blocking, the damage is still reduced. Better a failed parry into a block and take reduced damage than a failed dodge that takes full damage.
I strongly disagree that they need separate kanjis. I think it would ruin the system. Enemies tend to take huge, silhouette-changing stances for each different attack, often with a really big windup, and many perilous attacks only happen after a specific sequence of other attacks.
The final boss is a good example: he has about half a dozen kanji thrusts that are combo enders, and really just one that could happen at the same time as a sweep. The final phase's new kanji attack is hugely different and, if anything, is easiest to mess up by jumping too early because the window is so long.
The game is not asking you for symbol recognition, which is trivial. It's asking you to look at tells and stances and patterns deliberately and predict/control enemy behaviour. Those stances and patterns are there, and whenever the boss used an attack that is genuinely ambiguous, I found that either it wasn't and I just hadn't really grasped the moveset, or it happened because I allowed it to instead of forcing a response and controlling the fight.
The tall grass is a terrible decision, though, inarguably.
I would also argue that a real fix to make the kanji attacks less oppressive would be to simply reduce miniboss and boss damage per hit. Having so little time to learn the fight and having one mistake easily spiral into death means you tend to learn by dying a bunch of times, rather than learning the fight on the fly and adapting over a longer period. By the time I beat the last boss I could control his behaviour in almost every phase, but I died dozens of times to learn that, which feels a lot less "kickass ninja" and a lot more "unstoppable lumbering zombie."
You’re supposed to be paying attention to the boss’ animations and attack patterns. Having a giant different warning for Thrusts, Sweeps, Terrors, and Grabs would be playing the game for you. You wouldn’t have to pay attention.
I felt really really good when I nailed the Corrupted Monks Sweeps and Thrusts if each one had its own color I wouldnt have had that same sense of accomplishment.
Honestly, I would disagree that most red attacks are easy to identify. Some are, due to very distinct silhouettes (Corrupted monk comes to mind), but for example whether Genichiro was going to sweep or thrust was very hard to identify with his armor obscuring his silhouette especially at the distance that fight happens (ie right in his goddamn face).
My answer was simply to back the hell off and don't even try to identify those, and instead focusing on punishing his actually readable and parryable moves. Which let me take him out in about seven or eight deaths tops (five or so were sacrificed to me coming to the conclusion that just avoiding his red attacks was a better plan, sadly), which I think was pretty okay.
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
Alright, Demon down. Only the final boss is left.
Demon took 3 tries but it really shoulda been 2.
On the second try I got a little too aggro because I thought the 3rd phase was going to be a bit more different and I didn't wanna learn new moves but got him halfway through the last health bar anyway.
Honestly, I would disagree that most red attacks are easy to identify. Some are, due to very distinct silhouettes (Corrupted monk comes to mind), but for example whether Genichiro was going to sweep or thrust was very hard to identify with his armor obscuring his silhouette especially at the distance that fight happens (ie right in his goddamn face).
My answer was simply to back the hell off and don't even try to identify those, and instead focusing on punishing his actually readable and parryable moves. Which let me take him out in about seven or eight deaths tops (five or so were sacrificed to me coming to the conclusion that just avoiding his red attacks was a better plan, sadly), which I think was pretty okay.
I definitely don't think they're easy to identify, but it's a skill most games don't demand of their players to this level. But that challenge is the core of the game's combat, and not just for kanji attacks. Knowing the boss's attack strings and how to identify them early and respond optimally is the whole thing!
It's also, crucially, a really thematic thing. A frozen moment where you're both tensed, about to act, and your whole brain is clenched around this enemy to predict or identify their attack and respond perfectly - that's right out of classic samurai films. I've never played a game that produced that feeling so well.
+4
cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Unless he's griping about Pool, in which case lol, it's barely one room.
cj iwakura on
0
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
As someone who is bad at reading attacks I actually really love the kanji thing. Because it lets me get that feeling of reading attacks while still not being to good at it on a greater scale.
If it just told you more directly what each one was it wouldn't have that feeling. It would purely be responding to an interface instead of the enemy. I always prefer games that have me looking more at the action and the actual game than staring at the interface.
Honestly, I would disagree that most red attacks are easy to identify. Some are, due to very distinct silhouettes (Corrupted monk comes to mind), but for example whether Genichiro was going to sweep or thrust was very hard to identify with his armor obscuring his silhouette especially at the distance that fight happens (ie right in his goddamn face).
My answer was simply to back the hell off and don't even try to identify those, and instead focusing on punishing his actually readable and parryable moves. Which let me take him out in about seven or eight deaths tops (five or so were sacrificed to me coming to the conclusion that just avoiding his red attacks was a better plan, sadly), which I think was pretty okay.
I definitely don't think they're easy to identify, but it's a skill most games don't demand of their players to this level. But that challenge is the core of the game's combat, and not just for kanji attacks. Knowing the boss's attack strings and how to identify them early and respond optimally is the whole thing!
It's also, crucially, a really thematic thing. A frozen moment where you're both tensed, about to act, and your whole brain is clenched around this enemy to predict or identify their attack and respond perfectly - that's right out of classic samurai films. I've never played a game that produced that feeling so well.
One of the things about the perilous attacks is that if your reaction is starting when the symbol shows up you are already behind the curve. Often because you are looking at stuff but not actually seeing them for the indicators that they are. I can muddle through fights on my own most of the time, learning as I go, but I like the research aspect where looking up informations about the fights and not just cheesy stuff but the actual fights and then seeing what I can incorporate into my routine.
Genichiro has some instances of looking without seeing and FightingCowboy did a nice vid on the fight that really shows them. Spoiler due some info about the fight.
When he does his jumping overhead slash he follows it up with a perilous attack it can be either the sweep or the thrust and that is the one I would have to do some guesswork on in the beginning. But after a while I was able to predict the type of a attack with a reasonable degree of certainty but I couldn't really tell you how I knew, was it the stance, the blade, the movement etc. The video gives a rather clearer answer in that Genichiros blade will do a reflection and the movement of the blade during that glint shows the type of attack that is coming.
The light is closer to the ground and not moving: Incoming thrust so get that mikiri ready.
The light moves up and to the left: Incoming sweep so jump on his head or drop a high monk on him.
I still do love a bit of cheese though and the best ones are the ones you find out by complete accident. Like how to turn Lady B into a one round fight.
Nightjar slash can be spammed to keep her stunlocked for the entire first phase which I found out by being a little to overeager when buttonmashing.
For perilous attacks I've found you pretty much just need to watch the enemy's weapon.
If the weapon's tip is on your left, the enemy's right, it's a thrust.
If the weapon's tip is on your right, the enemy's left, it's a sweep.
If there's a long wind-up with no apparent weapon stance, it's a grab.
I can think of very, very few examples that didn't conform for this. In fact I'm having trouble thinking of any at all - someone's gotta' have an example, though?
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
I still do love a bit of cheese though and the best ones are the ones you find out by complete accident. Like how to turn Lady B into a one round fight.
Nightjar slash can be spammed to keep her stunlocked for the entire first phase which I found out by being a little to overeager when buttonmashing.
I found a sequence that would usually do the same to Genichiro, but is less spammy:
One attack > deflect > one attack > deflect > at this point he'll do one of his special attacks, if it's the jump that's an easy deflect > mikiri. Otherwise he'll usually roll away, shoot you, and then roll in to attack. You block or deflect the shot and then swing, which will land a hit and break him out of the attack. Go back to attack > deflect and repeat until dead.
I strongly disagree that they need separate kanjis. I think it would ruin the system. Enemies tend to take huge, silhouette-changing stances for each different attack, often with a really big windup, and many perilous attacks only happen after a specific sequence of other attacks.
The final boss is a good example: he has about half a dozen kanji thrusts that are combo enders, and really just one that could happen at the same time as a sweep. The final phase's new kanji attack is hugely different and, if anything, is easiest to mess up by jumping too early because the window is so long.
The game is not asking you for symbol recognition, which is trivial. It's asking you to look at tells and stances and patterns deliberately and predict/control enemy behaviour. Those stances and patterns are there, and whenever the boss used an attack that is genuinely ambiguous, I found that either it wasn't and I just hadn't really grasped the moveset, or it happened because I allowed it to instead of forcing a response and controlling the fight.
The tall grass is a terrible decision, though, inarguably.
I would also argue that a real fix to make the kanji attacks less oppressive would be to simply reduce miniboss and boss damage per hit. Having so little time to learn the fight and having one mistake easily spiral into death means you tend to learn by dying a bunch of times, rather than learning the fight on the fly and adapting over a longer period. By the time I beat the last boss I could control his behaviour in almost every phase, but I died dozens of times to learn that, which feels a lot less "kickass ninja" and a lot more "unstoppable lumbering zombie."
I will admit, that I do watch videos of people fighting bosses when I have a bit of a trouble with them. First genichiro, armored knight, and long arm centipedes were laughably easy, because I roamed and got my ass handed like 40 times to me by seven spear, snake eyes, and every other mini boss.
I had 15vitality, 3 weapon skill and 7 gourd drinks when I decided to fight genichiro the first time. Only died twice, because... Learned the tells by surviving a couple hits the first go around.
Just getting up in a boss's face and forcing them to start parrying you is the key to almost every troublesome boss fight in the game. They begin responding with predictable patterns, and from there you can really start to grind 'em down.
'Chance, you are the best kind of whore.' -Henroid
Just getting up in a boss's face and forcing them to start parrying you is the key to almost every troublesome boss fight in the game. They begin responding with predictable patterns, and from there you can really start to grind 'em down.
And actually that's kind of fun, because with this new parry emphasis by From Software, it feels like a cinematic sword fight instead of jumping in picking a couple cuts and rolling out like previous games. I also like sekiro's lean gear selection, this go around. I don't need to hunt specific gear to make a viable character, it's about item prep (granted, I have some issues with divine confetti being so goddamn rare), which I usually have at least 20 of... And ash is more useful than one would think, even late game.
Nothing wrong with the first souls and blood-borne styles, but sekiro has its own nuances instead of being just soulsborne in Japan
For perilous attacks I've found you pretty much just need to watch the enemy's weapon.
If the weapon's tip is on your left, the enemy's right, it's a thrust.
If the weapon's tip is on your right, the enemy's left, it's a sweep.
If there's a long wind-up with no apparent weapon stance, it's a grab.
I can think of very, very few examples that didn't conform for this. In fact I'm having trouble thinking of any at all - someone's gotta' have an example, though?
I followed this for a while up until there was an exception, then I stopped relying on it. I can’t recall what specific boss that was though. It was a thrust/sweep confusion though. Grabs by far seem the most obvious.
Also there’s Lady B who charges straight in for either a thrust or sweep, can’t remember now what it is, but she’s dual wielding and charging up in a straight line.
Posts
No
he doesn't seem wildly hard except that there's like two moves i haven't figured out how to avoid and there's one sweep i never jump over because i still have this problem after almost 40 hours
and also his health pool is midir tier
-Indiana Solo, runner of blades
Who are your troublesome prayer bead bosses?
I open with stealth candy and kill the wingman, but the spear guy always seems to get a lethal shot on me.
I found the hidden battle in the Ashina Depths that yielded two beads, so my morale is back up.
You can have multiple save files.
Case in point, right now I've died multiple times because this boss has a huge-ass thrust attack and a huge-ass sweep attack. The thrust is actually a combo and will straight kill you if the first part lands because there's also a backswing for more damage. The sweep will almost kill you. If you dash forward to counter the thrust or dash sideways to evade, you get murdered by the sweep. If you jump to avoid the sweep and it's the thrust, you get killed. The fight is full of grass that obscures the opponent, so trying to figure out which attack he's doing based on his stance with about half a second before the attack is just bad design.
And then in his final phase, he rolls out a new type of unblockable that requires being in the air, so making the wrong call on the glyph when it appears means getting blasted by one of the two other unblockables he does or getting blasted by a hugely dangerous attack.
With piles of enemies that can kill the player in 1-2 hits, it's just not defensible to obscure this kind of info.
It would be so much easier if the enemy's weapon just glowed red so you never got distracted from their animations.
Even with making sure to address colorblind individuals, it would NOT have been hard to make sure there are distinct, immediate visual cues for each unblockable attack, placed in ways that let the player avoid taking their eyes off an enemy's pose that they're also supposed to be analyzing to react to. The game could've done the job just fine with smaller, but visually distinct, cues that come off from what the opponent is using to attack; it would fit the game just as well as a big, dumb danger glyph, without muddling extremely crucial gameplay info.
I really, really hate the shared glyph and I wish that at the very least, the audio cues were different for the different attacks. Ideally, the window for reacting to different animations (and therefore attacks) would be as forgiving as the deflect timing.
I say this as someone who is extremely happy with the game’s difficulty and power curves.
Is anyone else surprised at how Souls control habits can still sneak in after all these hours? I’ve been taking my time with Sekiro so I might not be doing myself any favors by not binging it, but especially when things get tense I still want to dodge away most of the time.
Even against hits that damage through blocking, the damage is still reduced. Better a failed parry into a block and take reduced damage than a failed dodge that takes full damage.
The final boss is a good example: he has about half a dozen kanji thrusts that are combo enders, and really just one that could happen at the same time as a sweep. The final phase's new kanji attack is hugely different and, if anything, is easiest to mess up by jumping too early because the window is so long.
The game is not asking you for symbol recognition, which is trivial. It's asking you to look at tells and stances and patterns deliberately and predict/control enemy behaviour. Those stances and patterns are there, and whenever the boss used an attack that is genuinely ambiguous, I found that either it wasn't and I just hadn't really grasped the moveset, or it happened because I allowed it to instead of forcing a response and controlling the fight.
The tall grass is a terrible decision, though, inarguably.
I would also argue that a real fix to make the kanji attacks less oppressive would be to simply reduce miniboss and boss damage per hit. Having so little time to learn the fight and having one mistake easily spiral into death means you tend to learn by dying a bunch of times, rather than learning the fight on the fly and adapting over a longer period. By the time I beat the last boss I could control his behaviour in almost every phase, but I died dozens of times to learn that, which feels a lot less "kickass ninja" and a lot more "unstoppable lumbering zombie."
I felt really really good when I nailed the Corrupted Monks Sweeps and Thrusts if each one had its own color I wouldnt have had that same sense of accomplishment.
My answer was simply to back the hell off and don't even try to identify those, and instead focusing on punishing his actually readable and parryable moves. Which let me take him out in about seven or eight deaths tops (five or so were sacrificed to me coming to the conclusion that just avoiding his red attacks was a better plan, sadly), which I think was pretty okay.
Demon took 3 tries but it really shoulda been 2.
On the second try I got a little too aggro because I thought the 3rd phase was going to be a bit more different and I didn't wanna learn new moves but got him halfway through the last health bar anyway.
Charlton Heston actually.
Time to explore!
enjoy his
PSN: Corbius
General spoilers, do not watch while chewing or drinking
I definitely don't think they're easy to identify, but it's a skill most games don't demand of their players to this level. But that challenge is the core of the game's combat, and not just for kanji attacks. Knowing the boss's attack strings and how to identify them early and respond optimally is the whole thing!
It's also, crucially, a really thematic thing. A frozen moment where you're both tensed, about to act, and your whole brain is clenched around this enemy to predict or identify their attack and respond perfectly - that's right out of classic samurai films. I've never played a game that produced that feeling so well.
I'm... not sure I even found that swamp...
Unless he's griping about Pool, in which case lol, it's barely one room.
If it just told you more directly what each one was it wouldn't have that feeling. It would purely be responding to an interface instead of the enemy. I always prefer games that have me looking more at the action and the actual game than staring at the interface.
One of the things about the perilous attacks is that if your reaction is starting when the symbol shows up you are already behind the curve. Often because you are looking at stuff but not actually seeing them for the indicators that they are. I can muddle through fights on my own most of the time, learning as I go, but I like the research aspect where looking up informations about the fights and not just cheesy stuff but the actual fights and then seeing what I can incorporate into my routine.
Genichiro has some instances of looking without seeing and FightingCowboy did a nice vid on the fight that really shows them. Spoiler due some info about the fight.
The light is closer to the ground and not moving: Incoming thrust so get that mikiri ready.
The light moves up and to the left: Incoming sweep so jump on his head or drop a high monk on him.
I still do love a bit of cheese though and the best ones are the ones you find out by complete accident. Like how to turn Lady B into a one round fight.
I can think of very, very few examples that didn't conform for this. In fact I'm having trouble thinking of any at all - someone's gotta' have an example, though?
This is especially good if they don't have any grabs
Deflecting a huge boss's attacks as you leap towards them is always amazeballs superaction funtime.
I found a sequence that would usually do the same to Genichiro, but is less spammy:
its hilarious.
Also, why does everyone always pick the damn axe as the starting weapon for bloodborn. cane is justice.
I will admit, that I do watch videos of people fighting bosses when I have a bit of a trouble with them. First genichiro, armored knight, and long arm centipedes were laughably easy, because I roamed and got my ass handed like 40 times to me by seven spear, snake eyes, and every other mini boss.
I had 15vitality, 3 weapon skill and 7 gourd drinks when I decided to fight genichiro the first time. Only died twice, because... Learned the tells by surviving a couple hits the first go around.
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
And actually that's kind of fun, because with this new parry emphasis by From Software, it feels like a cinematic sword fight instead of jumping in picking a couple cuts and rolling out like previous games. I also like sekiro's lean gear selection, this go around. I don't need to hunt specific gear to make a viable character, it's about item prep (granted, I have some issues with divine confetti being so goddamn rare), which I usually have at least 20 of... And ash is more useful than one would think, even late game.
Nothing wrong with the first souls and blood-borne styles, but sekiro has its own nuances instead of being just soulsborne in Japan
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
Spin to win basically. You can crush most of the game using that one move and nothing else really comes close.
I followed this for a while up until there was an exception, then I stopped relying on it. I can’t recall what specific boss that was though. It was a thrust/sweep confusion though. Grabs by far seem the most obvious.
Also there’s Lady B who charges straight in for either a thrust or sweep, can’t remember now what it is, but she’s dual wielding and charging up in a straight line.