[The Legend of Zelda] Breath of the Wild sequel in development!

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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat but not a real green dress, that's cruel Registered User regular
    Also Tingle has a machine gun.

    tony danza cuts in line
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  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    I fixed it.

    The Escape Goat
  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    I’m sure he’ll be there somewhere. Link Between Worlds is the only Zelda game since MM to not feature some kind of Tingle reference.

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  • The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    Felt pretty out of place there too. That was absolutely to pad out Ganon’s Tower.

    Know what isn’t out of place for the next Zelda game?

    Unlocking a sealed coffin deep beneath the earth half way through BotW2, and out pops Tingle. With a machine gun.

    Cut to link pushing him back into the coffin and dumping the coffin in the ocean.

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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  • TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    Rehab wrote: »
    I think that I would very much object to the original intent with Majora's Mask because that sounds rather exhausting.

    An boss rush dungeon in Ocarina of Time though? That feels out of place for a Zelda game, but I bet that would be fun.

    I assume each day would have passed faster so it would probably only take as long as the three-day world with the Song of Half Time or whatever it's called.

  • AlphagaiaAlphagaia Registered User regular
    Are there any more games like Groundhogday or is MM the only one?

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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat but not a real green dress, that's cruel Registered User regular
    Alphagaia wrote: »
    Are there any more games like Groundhogday or is MM the only one?

    In the Zelda series or in general? Recently there was an acclaimed game called Outer Wilds that worked on a similar concept

    within Zelda though, naw

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  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
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    Daggers in my heart.

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  • Endless_SerpentsEndless_Serpents Registered User regular
    edited August 2
    Yes, we must be sure.

    Edit: I actually don’t have a problem with Tingle, but he should get a comeuppance for his behaviour. In MM was just a harmless nerd, but in WW he was like, a kidnapper maybe?

    Endless_Serpents on
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  • Jam WarriorJam Warrior Registered User regular
    Alphagaia wrote: »
    Are there any more games like Groundhogday or is MM the only one?

    There’s an actual Groundhog Day game. No idea if it’s any good.

    Outer Wilds is a big contemporary user of the idea.

    Minit is a much smaller scale recent one as well.

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    AlphagaiaEndless_Serpents
  • klemmingklemming Registered User regular
    Alphagaia wrote: »
    Are there any more games like Groundhogday or is MM the only one?
    I've ended up thinking that the levels in Hitman are their own Groundhog Days. By the time I've mastered one I can tell you the schedules and routines of a dozen people in them, including what happens when you take some of them out at key intervals.

    Nobody remembers the singer. The song remains.
    AlphagaiaBrodyDelduwath
  • SteevLSteevL What can I do for you? Registered User regular
    Alphagaia wrote: »
    Are there any more games like Groundhogday or is MM the only one?

    The first game I always think of is Dead Rising.

  • HenroidHenroid Seize the Memes Registered User regular
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  • RehabRehab Registered User regular
    Nathan Explosion must have known that when he claimed it was the bleakest and most brutal place to record an album.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    edited August 2
    SteevL wrote: »
    Alphagaia wrote: »
    Are there any more games like Groundhogday or is MM the only one?

    The first game I always think of is Dead Rising.

    Yeah, Dead Rising and Dead Rising 2: Off the Record (the main character for the original DR2 sucks, DR2 is so much better with Frank West) are both similar to Majora's Mask in that really "finishing" the game involves multiple playthroughs to explore various areas and events. Depending on who you find to save and fight can get you things like mall shortcuts, blueprints, story bits, etc.

    However, there are a LOT of events, you have no ability to control the passage of time, and you can only save in restrooms, which some people find frustrating.

    Personally, I love the shit out of the recursive nature of the game and how they're actively designed for the player to explore and discover things on repeated playthroughs instead of attempting to 100% things the first time through.

    Ninja Snarl P on
  • EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    i had seen a randomizer game of alttp on a gdq stream and decided to give that a shot last night. that stuff is hard...

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    i had seen a randomizer game of alttp on a gdq stream and decided to give that a shot last night. that stuff is hard...

    If you want to dip your toes in, I'd start with an 'Ambrosia' type seed, which gives you a sword straight away and gives you a hint about the boots location at the very start.

    There's also tons of resources to help out if you're not completely comfortable with the various item logics. There are item trackers that let you track which items you have, and which dungeons are crystals/pendants, and map trackers which highlight a part of the map once you have the requisite items to check that location.

  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    klemming wrote: »
    Alphagaia wrote: »
    Are there any more games like Groundhogday or is MM the only one?
    I've ended up thinking that the levels in Hitman are their own Groundhog Days. By the time I've mastered one I can tell you the schedules and routines of a dozen people in them, including what happens when you take some of them out at key intervals.

    Insofar as Groundhog Day is about the concept of repeating the same events over and over until you get everything absolutely perfect and are allowed to move on, a lot of games fit that bill, but the series that comes to my mind first is early Tony Hawk!

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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    edited August 3
    I've decided to play through from the very beggining with the intent to analyze the game design. In particular, I'm interested in why some folk bounce hard of this game. I'm not trying to convince anyone the game they should like a game they don't like. I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm just very interested in this game's design and the psychology behind individual's response.

    At the very start there is no menu. No selection of new game. Just small, plain white lettering in a black background:
    Nintendo presents
    The Legend of Zelda
    Breath of the Wild

    Next we get a bright light and faint voice calling us. Telling us to open our eyes. The first thing we see is a weird techno think apparently above us. It's reminiscent of the old trope of waking up in a hospital looking at a thingy above you. Then we get Link laying in his back, half nekkid in glowy water that is draining. Link wakes up fully and climbs out of his bath, visibly dripping wet. We get a wide shot of this room with glowy bits. It ain't a natural cave. It's clear Link was in some artificial machine. This naturally begs the question: what is this and why was I in it? Then we get a close up of a podium, clearly made of the same glowy blue tech. Then we are given control of Link. We have no clue what is going on. The only direct instruction we are given is a command to open our eyes.

    Right of the bat the themes of the game are presented to us. We are dropped in media res (am I using this term right?) into the story, no "once upon a time" here. "Open your eyes" is the very first and only thing we are told. It's the very core of this game: exploration for it's own sake, looking around, looking at things, looking for things.

    Nobeard on
    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    edited August 3
    (Wall of text, I know, but I want to describe the very first moments as every detail sets the tone of the game)

    Next we are shown some unobtrusive instructions at the bottom of the screen on how to move Link and the camera and the Button to access the menu. The podium is the only other thing in the room and we just had a close up of it. When we walk up to it we are given a button prompt to press a to examine it. It whirs and spins, presenting us with a thingy. The voice tells us it's a shiekah slate and to take it. "It will help guide you after your long slumber". We pick it up and it melodically beeps at us. In classic Zelda fashion, "you got a special thing" music plays (a new, different tune, something we've never heard before) and a window pops up telling us we got. It's says we've never seen anything like it before, but it's somehow familiar.

    The podium whirs back into place and in the same scene a door opens. It doesn't swing in a hinge, it slides up in individual bars. Clearly we are meant the go through it. Beyond is a hallway made of the same tech as the room we were just in. We pass by some old crates, broken barrels, and some chest and are prompted to open them. We get some clothes and are then shown how to access the menu to equip them. Thier description mentions the clothes are comfortable but kinda old and a bit too small. Further on is another podium. We are to to use the Shieka Slate on it, "That will show you the way". We do so and the podium says something. It says "authenticating... Sheikah Slate confirmed". Another strange door opens, this time appearing to unlock some mechanism. Real sunlight streams in, partially blinding link. It looks very much like the light we saw at the beggining. The voice (clearly female, I forgot to mention) tells us "Link, you are the light-our light- that must shine upon Hyrule once again... now go." We go through the door. There is a small wall we have to climb, given all the control instructions on how to.

    We exit the strange cave. The game takes control as Link runs to a jutting ledge. The camera pulls back and we are presented with a sweeping view of the landscape while also sweeping music plays. The title and logo if the game is shown in the bottom right. We see nearby forest, distant mountains, and a volcano. The only man made structure is a far of castle. The camera then pans to another structure, much closer. It kinda looks like some ruins. Our attention is drawn to a person who is looking g right at us, as if expecting us. They turn and walk towards a campfire in a small alcove. Then we are given back control.


    Here we have classic Nintendo hand holding. Want to make sure everybody, even if they have never played any video games at all, can play. That's not a bad thing, I just find it amusing. It's hammered to us SHIEKAH SLATE IMPORTANT, just in case we didnt get that. Climbing is a huge mechanic in this game, and it makes sure we are introduced to it as we have to climb to get out of the cave. Also we are given hints to the mystery.

    For someone who knows about Zelda but avoided all spoilers, this is a whole lotta what the hell? Even if you know the overall theme of the game and what happened, it's still very different from any other Zelda opening. Up front the game is telling you you're not in Kansas anymore.

    Nobeard on
    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    edited August 3
    TLDR

    We are dropped in with no preamble. The first few minutes are spent telling and showing us the theme of the game: Looking around. The game takes control for a minute to do that. "Open your eyes". We are presented with a mystery. An opener very much unlike any other Zelda game. In that context it's downright strage. Key gameplay mechanics are introduced.

    As a looooong time gamer I went through this without thinking. Breaking it down I see there is a lot going on here, both subtle and unsubtle. It's top notch game design.

    Nobeard on
    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
    OneAngryPossum
  • BetsuniBetsuni Insert Disk 4 and Press Any Key to Continue Registered User regular
    So, proof that writers make mistakes.

    https://kotaku.com/new-history-novel-somehow-includes-breath-of-the-wild-r-1844589799

    I describe the information behind the spoiler for those who can't read kotaku at work or don't feel like clicking the link to give them a hit.
    Apparently John Boyne, writer, was writing his newest book "A Traveler at the Gates of Wisdom" and in it he described how to make blue and red dye for dressmaking. Apparently he writes historical novels. A reddit reader found this in a passage:

    "The dyes that I used in my dressmaking were composed from various ingredients, depending on the color required, but almost all require nightshade, sapphire, keese wing, the leaves of the silent princess plant, Octorok eyeball, swift violet, thistle and hightail lizard. In addition, for the red I used for Abrila's dress, I employed spicy pepper, the tail of the lizalfos and four Hylian shrooms. Despite the abundance of component parts, the resultant mixture was as inoffensive to the nose as it is damaging to the body."

    So apparently he not only writes about historical events, but events that happen only in the Breath of the Wild. The Kotaku article then has another author journalist, Dana Shwartz, posting her twitter feed pointing out the mistake. John Boyne responds laughing at his own mistake and mentions that he'll have to give credit for Breath of the Wild in the paperback printing.

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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    (I promise that soon every detail won't be noted. It'd just that at the very start everything is significant.)

    The setting is typical forest. We hear birds chirping, insects buzzing, that kinda thing. Small birds flutter away as we approach.
    Maybe a lizard scurries off. We can climb trees, we can climb the cliff behind us. Sticks and mushrooms glint, prompting us to investigate. We are given a button prompt to pick them up. Hylian mushrooms heal, sticks are weapons. We are told how to equip the stick and swing it. Our stamina wheel is explained.


    Here we have our freedom. We don't have to go to the old man. I climbed the cliff, scared a boar at the top, and some bokoblins chased it ad it ran by their camp. No fully scripted event, just emergent happenings.

    After a minute or two if we don't go to the old man, the voice tells us how to access the map on the Shiekah Slate and it sets an objective and waypoint for us. It leads us to the old man. The path to him is partially paved, old and broken bricks mostly overgrown. There are bits of old fence. Just outside his alcove we see apples. We can jump and grab one.

    At the alcove we meet the old man in front of (presumably) his campfire. Righ on our side of it is a thing we can pick up. It's an apple that has been baked, in reading it's health restoration. If we pick it up before we talk to the old man he scolds us for taking his baked apple, but he's only joking. He tells up the apple was baked by the campfire. He ask what we are doing here. If we try to leave, he cajoled us into staying. We have to talk to him. If we talk to him before taking the baked apple, we get ask him who he is. He brushes off that question, calling himself an old fool who has lived here a long time. After that he ask what we are up too. We ask him where we are. He tells us our meeting is no coincidence. He tells we are on the Great Plateau, which legends say is the birthplace of the kingdom of hyrule.

    He directs our attention to the nearby structure, calling it a temple. He tells us long ago ancient ceremonies were held there. He says that since the decline if the kingdom 100 years ago it has sat empty. He calls it a ghost of it's former self. After that he tells us he will be here awhile and offers us help if we need it.


    Here we get a tiny bit of backstory. Also we are indirectly instructed how to use campfires to cook stuff. Behind him is a torch. Pick it up and he ask you what you plan to do with it. If we tell him to fight, he advises us to take his axe. If we say to light fires, he days that's unnerving. We can day it's a secret (callback to first game) and he says whatever but you can use it as a weapon. Whatever the answer, the game tells how to lock on to enemies.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • CruorCruor Registered User regular
    Glad to see John Boyne can add plagiarist to his list of other ignoble traits - transphobe, Auschwitz Museum antagonist.

    Kalnaur
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Out of the cave we are given total freedom. We are nudged and outright instructed to go to the iod man. We don't have to, though. We can run off and do the shrines straight away. However, I imagine the vast majority of folks follow the script the first go round, novices and vets alike. I did. The game peaks our curiosity to nudge us to the old man. Then it commands us to.
    For vets, we have for years been trained by games to follow the script because we have to. The goes triple for every one of the tightly sequenced Zelfa games (save for the first). I bet for some folks the idea that we can ignore what the game apparently wants us to do did not even cross thier mind.

    I consider this a bold move for control freak Nintendo, especially for one of it's most hallowed (and bankable) franchises. This major departure from formula risk turning off many fans. It also risk offending die hard Nintendo fans, who can be a bit... particular. This risk did in fact turn off some longtime Zelda fans, some in this forum. Some wanted a traditional Zelda and were very disappointed. That's fine. Us here are above judging people for not liking the new hotness, but its undeniable the gamble paid off.

    I'm ver curious to know how folk here played this first part. Please tell me!

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • BetsuniBetsuni Insert Disk 4 and Press Any Key to Continue Registered User regular
    Cruor wrote: »
    Glad to see John Boyne can add plagiarist to his list of other ignoble traits - transphobe, Auschwitz Museum antagonist.

    Good to know that he sucks. Thanks! I was wondering who the heck he is (and added to the stupid list).

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    Nobeard
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    edited August 3
    Sorry guys I drank a bunch if caffeine to do some outdoor work but it's thunderstorming and this stuff has been bubbling for a long time. I don't expect this to be super interesting or anything but maybe it will generate some discussion that is.

    Also I only have a phone for internets so please excuse the typos.

    Nobeard on
    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
    BetsuniMNC DoverOneAngryPossumNightslyr
  • OneAngryPossumOneAngryPossum Registered User regular
    I think a critical analysis of most games opening sections is a pretty worthwhile endeavor, honestly. Especially in this industry those opening minutes often get the most developer attention, so you can assume a certain level of intentional design that gets more tricky the further you go along, especially in an open world.

    I’d forgotten that “Open your eyes” bit and think it’s really a brilliant touch given how well the game provides direction with color and landscape design.

    NobeardCalica
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    I think a critical analysis of most games opening sections is a pretty worthwhile endeavor, honestly. Especially in this industry those opening minutes often get the most developer attention, so you can assume a certain level of intentional design that gets more tricky the further you go along, especially in an open world.

    I’d forgotten that “Open your eyes” bit and think it’s really a brilliant touch given how well the game provides direction with color and landscape design.

    Also light, both literal and metaphorical, is a major motif. Light is used to guide and nudge the player. That pitch black northern forest is one of my fave game things ever.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    edited August 3
    Right after the old man there is a pond. It has a jutting rock just begging to be leapt off of. Do so and Link unexpectedly dives. Right into a korok ring. The game rewards your inquisitiveness and plain old playing around, both materially and with a neat thingy, the diving. On an island in the pond there is a sword sticking out of the ground. It must be special. Maybe the master sword! However, unlike the unexpected reward of dive and korok, this turns out to be just an old rusted sword, a piece of junk.

    Right here in this little pond is the entire game. The just for fun stuff is where the action is. The traditional style of gaming that you've learned by heart won't get you much. The old rules don't apply. Playing, not gaming, is the point.

    Nobeard on
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  • Senna1Senna1 Registered User regular
    edited August 3
    Which reminds me, I need to go back and do that dark forest...

    I only encountered it late in my playthrough, when I already had my eyes on gearing up for Hyrule Castle, and didn't do much with it.

    Love the analysis of the opening, BTW. I played it pretty much as described, following the cues of what the player is "supposed" to do, only slightly distracted by the ability to actually do *whatever*.

    Really interested to see this compared to other games' openings, like The Witcher 3:
    Also an open-world experience, but which opens as a dream sequence, depicting the key characters in a (false) memory of events which never occurred - but nonetheless work to tutorialize the gameplay and narrative hook.

    Senna1 on
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    edited August 3
    I was mistaken about the waypoint Zelda gave us. It leads to the plateau tower. Along the direct rout are some bokoblins. Some with bows, on high ground. A bit of a challenge, even for vets, when Link is so weak. When I played hard mode they definitely required skill and planning to take down.

    However, if you investigated the temple, you find some pots to smash which contain arrows and a chest with a traveler's bow, which definitely evens the playing field with the bow-koblins. The lesson is clear: detours and exploration reward you and make you stronger. Going straight for the glowing goal is the hard way.

    Or you can just go around the bow-koblins. Think outside the box!

    Now, how many people poked around the temple first? Again, I bet most people did. It gets a special camera shot and the old man talks about ancient ceremonies. How could you not be tempted to explore? But it doesn't have an official, mark of quest. It's not a mandatory. It's not even officially noted as an optional sidequests as literally every other game would. It's just there.

    Nobeard on
    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • UncleSporkyUncleSporky Registered User regular
    Senna1 wrote: »
    Which reminds me, I need to go back and do that dark forest...

    I only encountered it late in my playthrough, when I already had my eyes on gearing up for Hyrule Castle, and didn't do much with it.

    I remember getting up somewhere high and "mapsteering" essentially to glide directly to the only thing of interest in there. I think it was a shrine. I probably missed some korok seeds in there but I wasn't being a completionist about those.

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  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Good Link characterization: At the tower, he is a little suspicious of the podium. He gingerly places the slate on the podium. Shows he's still not sure about all this. I'm sure it doesn't help that the podium literally warns him to look out for falling rocks.

    Ominous music plays. The ground shakes.
    Bokos and wildlife quake. The tower slowly rises through old stone. We briefly glimpse other towers in far off lands rising well. Once finished, the tower drips info onto the slate.

    And holy shit I just now realized that piano as the drip forms is the tune where Link gets a special treasure from a chest. Then the map populates on the slate and the tune there is the dun-dun-dun-dun when Link lifts up the treasure but in a different key.

    Then we get a cutscene of a bright yet far off point of light. It's in that castle we saw. Zelda implores Link to remember. He's been asleep for 100 years and "the beast" threatens to regain it's full power. As we see this dark shadowy with glowing eyes circle the castle she tells us to hurry before it's too late.

    We have our end goal, even if we don't understand it.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    I fell off the tower and died. I wonder how many people did that?

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Interesting note: heroes path does show the moment when the game takes control and runs to that vista after leaving the shrine if ressurection.

    I'm not saying we are going to have an autocratic dystopia, but things keep happening that look like they come from an autocratic dystopia.
  • flamebroiledchickenflamebroiledchicken Registered User regular
    Found all the shrines, got the
    classic Link outfit
    God almighty, more fucking dragon parts to upgrade this thing? The busywork involved in upgrading the armor really puts a damper on the endgame when all I want to do is storm the castle (I know, I know, I don't need to upgrade the armor and could totally storm the castle right now, but for some reason my stupid brain won't let me do that.)

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  • UrsusUrsus Registered User regular
    Eh farming dragon parts is easy though

    Andy Joe
  • KalnaurKalnaur I See Heat Waves . . . Centralia, WARegistered User regular
    Ursus wrote: »
    Eh farming dragon parts is easy though

    Easy but boring. Like, epically boring. I do think my push to upgrade all the armor was part of what pulled back the curtain on just what a grind it could be if you left all the upgrades to the end.

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  • The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat but not a real green dress, that's cruel Registered User regular
    I should be able to negotiate a long-term bulk deal with the dragons.

    tony danza cuts in line
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