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[The Legend of Zelda] Breath of the Wild sequel in development!

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    physi_marcphysi_marc Positron Tracker In a nutshellRegistered User regular
    When I first played that part with the shock arrows, I assumed I was supposed to use stealth to collect them and not engage the Lynel.

    250+ hours later, I still suck at fighting Lynels, but now I can just brute force the encounters. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    I am fascinated by the variety of responses to BotW. We all have Videogame Rules, carved into us by countless hours and experience and they inform how we interact with BotW. That the game is simultaneously so open and still playable, not to mention good, is amazing.

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    BetsuniBetsuni UM-R60L Talisker IVRegistered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    You can also sneak around the lynel to collect all the arrows, if you were trying to fight it.

    If you have the DLC you can get Majora's Mask which is a disguise the works on all enemies save guardians and giant ones like Hinox. This let's you walk right up to lynels and not get attacked.

    Also chuchus and keese see through the mask as well (and alert everything around them).

    oosik_betsuni.png
    Steam: betsuni7
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    NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    So I’m making an effort to do Miphas domain.
    First, that little story about Link and Mipha is adorable.

    Second, fuck Lynels. Can I just buy the shock arrows I need?

    You can buy shock arrows at
    one of the shops inside the great deku tree.

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    StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    Kalnaur wrote: »
    ravioli gale is so good, and the climb up to fishtown is one of my favorite gaming moments ever
    the unstoppable rain and the fact i was so newb and weak, even the lizalfos were a challenge.

    and ouch finishing all shrines before going after the first beast does sound like a way to make the game less fun, I'd guess doing a bit of everything mixed up is a better way of not getting burned out.

    I was mainly doing the shrines to get enough hearts to be able to last more than two hits against enemies, but the enemies just seemed to still hit me the same, so I kept going. It took me more than half the shrines to actually understand that the bastards were basically leveling with me.

    Hell, I upgraded most of my armors before doing the beasts because I wanted survivability higher than the game seemed to want me to have. I've said it multiple times that this game's difficulty ramp is way steeper than I like my Zelda games to have, and I honestly don't see how the beast powers would have helped much with that at all. Then again, I didn't have them until the end, which I didn't even remember I had them after I got them, so maybe that's because of how I played.

    I was just trying not to be so damn squishy. Dying isn't fun or interesting, it was just . . . another hike back to wherever I was last saved.

    you kinda ended up making the game particularly bad for your style of play by trying to compensate for it. Not your fault or anything, just an observation. This is pretty much a "avoiding damage is better than mitigating damage" game, too, and Mipha's and Daruk's abilities are particularly useful for those of us not great at dodging and parrying.

    Also, many times going all out aggressive is safer than doing the Dark Souls shield dance. The best way to kill guardians, for instance, is charging at them and cutting the legs, or keeping away and parrying lasers (which I HAD to force myself to learn). Stasis also help.

    Sometimes learning to be water and go with the flow is better than trying too hard to shore up a perceived weakness; by trying not to be squishy you made the game a lot harder and full of friction.

    Again, i'm not criticizing you or saying you played wrong, just musing about games and gameplay design

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
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    KalnaurKalnaur I See Rain . . . Centralia, WARegistered User regular
    Kalnaur wrote: »
    ravioli gale is so good, and the climb up to fishtown is one of my favorite gaming moments ever
    the unstoppable rain and the fact i was so newb and weak, even the lizalfos were a challenge.

    and ouch finishing all shrines before going after the first beast does sound like a way to make the game less fun, I'd guess doing a bit of everything mixed up is a better way of not getting burned out.

    I was mainly doing the shrines to get enough hearts to be able to last more than two hits against enemies, but the enemies just seemed to still hit me the same, so I kept going. It took me more than half the shrines to actually understand that the bastards were basically leveling with me.

    Hell, I upgraded most of my armors before doing the beasts because I wanted survivability higher than the game seemed to want me to have. I've said it multiple times that this game's difficulty ramp is way steeper than I like my Zelda games to have, and I honestly don't see how the beast powers would have helped much with that at all. Then again, I didn't have them until the end, which I didn't even remember I had them after I got them, so maybe that's because of how I played.

    I was just trying not to be so damn squishy. Dying isn't fun or interesting, it was just . . . another hike back to wherever I was last saved.

    you kinda ended up making the game particularly bad for your style of play by trying to compensate for it. Not your fault or anything, just an observation. This is pretty much a "avoiding damage is better than mitigating damage" game, too, and Mipha's and Daruk's abilities are particularly useful for those of us not great at dodging and parrying.

    Also, many times going all out aggressive is safer than doing the Dark Souls shield dance. The best way to kill guardians, for instance, is charging at them and cutting the legs, or keeping away and parrying lasers (which I HAD to force myself to learn). Stasis also help.

    Sometimes learning to be water and go with the flow is better than trying too hard to shore up a perceived weakness; by trying not to be squishy you made the game a lot harder and full of friction.

    Again, i'm not criticizing you or saying you played wrong, just musing about games and gameplay design

    It's funny you call it the Dark Souls shield dance, as I think of it as the Ocarina of Time shield dance. Like, a default part of Zelda games. And I'm always defensive, it's in my nature, which is why for example Bloodborne is much more difficult for me. I can't force myself to "risk it all" because it's just not worth it, and I'm not confident enough to believe I know what I'm doing, even in games that I've played for hundreds of hours, unless I'm obviously so overleveled and maxed on skills that nothing can really hurt me.

    I do feel like the myriad of comparisons of this game to Dark Souls is another part of my problem; I very much prefer my Zelda games to not be high lethality games like Dark Souls, or damage avoidance games like Dark Souls, or punishingly difficult "git gud" games like Dark Souls. And that's from someone who actually likes playing Dark Souls games, and souls-likes, because I know what I'm getting into when I play them and I only play those when I'm in the mood to. I couldn't ever just play only Souls games because they demand far too much far too often of me. Also, I could never do enough damage to Guardian legs quickly enough to make it worth my while, so I straight up had to avoid them or learn to reflect the laser, so I looked it up and found out there's a sound and a visual cue right before the laser fires that, if you're about mid-range, you'll reflect it every time. That helped a lot.

    As for the abilities, because I got them near the end of my playthrough I hardly used them, so I don't have any idea of how useful they'd be in the beginning of the game, because at the end of the game I didn't see a point in using them. Probably in large part because I hadn't been using them all that time, so I already was set in my ways of how to do them.

    And I'm sure I made the game more difficult for myself, because I played it like I'd usually play an open world game and felt more and more like I was being punished for that. I went and got all the shrines, then started to upgrade my armor, then expanded my inventory all the way, then did the DLC guardian dungeons, then beat Ganon.

    Side note, how is anyone fast enough to pull out a stasis move on a Lynel before getting just clobbered by them? I had to carefully aim stasis even at rolling boulders and would constantly get creamed by them.

    I make art things! deviantART: Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Kalnaur wrote: »
    Side note, how is anyone fast enough to pull out a stasis move on a Lynel before getting just clobbered by them? I had to carefully aim stasis even at rolling boulders and would constantly get creamed by them.

    Big target directly in front of me because i'm meleeing so the reticle is always immediately on top of them, only during their chargeup for the big aoe attack so they aren't actually trying to hit me at that moment, and i'm actively planning for it to happen in my head so that cuts down the reaction time to pull out the ability and activate it.

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    KalnaurKalnaur I See Rain . . . Centralia, WARegistered User regular
    I straight up don't have the reaction time to use any of the rune stuff in battle quick enough, and that includes bombs. I'm slow on the draw because "mild panic" is generally where I live at all times, and that's also so with games. :wink:

    I make art things! deviantART: Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
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    CalicaCalica Registered User regular
    Kalnaur wrote: »
    I straight up don't have the reaction time to use any of the rune stuff in battle quick enough, and that includes bombs. I'm slow on the draw because "mild panic" is generally where I live at all times, and that's also so with games. :wink:

    @Kalnaur this is so very relatable. I'm in my 30s and couldn't play games with any sort of real-time combat until maybe 10 years ago. Any time I was threatened by enemies in a game, no matter how silly, I'd immediately freeze up and forget what all the controls did. If BotW had existed when I was a teen, and I'd tried to play it, I would have given up after my first bokoblin chuchu.

    YMMV, but I eventually figured out that what I was afraid of wasn't failure/game over per se, but of being startled. I hate jump scares with a burning passion, and enemies are scary! Not knowing exactly what they were going to do made me anxious to the point of paralyis. Solution (for me): save game, approach scary fight, and just... stand there. Watch what happens. Rinse and repeat as necessary until the tension of uncertainty is gone and the fight becomes a puzzle to be solved instead of a terrifying mystery. Sometimes just being able to observe what the enemy looks like, without the distraction of trying not to die, is enough.

    Also: bringing up the rune menu pauses the game, iirc, so you don't actually have to select a specific rune on the fly :smile:

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    KalnaurKalnaur I See Rain . . . Centralia, WARegistered User regular
    Calica wrote: »
    Kalnaur wrote: »
    I straight up don't have the reaction time to use any of the rune stuff in battle quick enough, and that includes bombs. I'm slow on the draw because "mild panic" is generally where I live at all times, and that's also so with games. :wink:

    @Kalnaur this is so very relatable. I'm in my 30s and couldn't play games with any sort of real-time combat until maybe 10 years ago. Any time I was threatened by enemies in a game, no matter how silly, I'd immediately freeze up and forget what all the controls did. If BotW had existed when I was a teen, and I'd tried to play it, I would have given up after my first bokoblin chuchu.

    YMMV, but I eventually figured out that what I was afraid of wasn't failure/game over per se, but of being startled. I hate jump scares with a burning passion, and enemies are scary! Not knowing exactly what they were going to do made me anxious to the point of paralyis. Solution (for me): save game, approach scary fight, and just... stand there. Watch what happens. Rinse and repeat as necessary until the tension of uncertainty is gone and the fight becomes a puzzle to be solved instead of a terrifying mystery. Sometimes just being able to observe what the enemy looks like, without the distraction of trying not to die, is enough.

    Also: bringing up the rune menu pauses the game, iirc, so you don't actually have to select a specific rune on the fly :smile:

    Honestly, this is about what happens when I play Dark Souls games though in my case it's figuring out how to cheese the enemy effectively, and it's exhausting. Like, I have a way to do this in games that expect some twitchy dodgy wait for an opening combat, but it's so tiring I have to really be in the mood to play them. Where I more or less forced myself to play BotW because "ZELDA" and "EVERYONE SAYS IT'S AWESOME" and I was expecting an open world Zelda title, though I knew that there weren't traditional dungeons as I'd come to think of them. What I didn't know is that so much would change so heavily in the series. I count on it to be consistent with basically the formula since Link to the Past. I don't celebrate challenge in games, I like just enough to remind me there's danger without killing me much (because it presents all the items and ideas and paths clearly) but not enough to require me to study the game.

    But this is all retread of what I've said before. Basically, I was expecting a chill, simple, easy battle and combat experience and exploration and that's not what I got.

    I make art things! deviantART: Kalnaur ::: Origin: Kalnaur ::: UPlay: Kalnaur
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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    The best advice I can give you is:

    1. Prioritize armor upgrades. Leveling up your armor drastically reduces the amount of damage enemies deal. Some of the esoteric armors are tough to boost due to rare materials, but the hylian set and the knight set are both pretty straightforward.
    2. Hearty food. Cook a single Hearty food item, and it will become a dish that fully replenishes your hearts and gives 1-3 bonus hearts on top. There's some places where you can get a bunch of Hearty foodstuffs (Hearty Durians in the southeast jungle, for example) and cook one at a time to give you multiple "red potions." You can cheese just about anything with this.

    The Hearty Food trick is so strong that on a subsequent playthrough I only allowed myself to craft a single dish of any one kind (so for example, only one "Simmered Fruit" even if I can make ones that restore different amounts of hearts). That had the added bonus of forcing me to engage more thoroughly with the recipe system.

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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    Pfft, of course, that's a good idea. I always go for 5 fruit durian meals. Oh well.

    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    I did the Water Divine Beast, and upgraded the Zora armour to level 3. If I knew you got this armour and what the special ability was I’d have done this much earlier.

    The armour itself is just so good. I can finally swim decently and not risk drowning in small ponds looking for fish.

    Started on the Desert Divine Beast but that stealth mission. Ugh. I hate auto fail stealth sections.

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    I did the Water Divine Beast, and upgraded the Zora armour to level 3. If I knew you got this armour and what the special ability was I’d have done this much earlier.

    The armour itself is just so good. I can finally swim decently and not risk drowning in small ponds looking for fish.

    Started on the Desert Divine Beast but that stealth mission. Ugh. I hate auto fail stealth sections.

    if you are patient enough to endure that stealth section until the end, you are a greater gamer than I am

    I completed 75% of the shrines and 75% of the divine beasts

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    I did the Water Divine Beast, and upgraded the Zora armour to level 3. If I knew you got this armour and what the special ability was I’d have done this much earlier.

    The armour itself is just so good. I can finally swim decently and not risk drowning in small ponds looking for fish.

    Started on the Desert Divine Beast but that stealth mission. Ugh. I hate auto fail stealth sections.

    If you don't already have the stealth armor, definitely buy it, and if you're getting stuck on the parts with the climbing you may also want to track down the full climbing set. I know this sounds like a lot, and it is. I always to that Beast last for many reasons, not the least of which being because it's the hardest one.

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    I have the full stealth and full climbing sets already, at level 3.

    -Loki- on
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    BetsuniBetsuni UM-R60L Talisker IVRegistered User regular
    If you want to really cheese the Yiga hideout you can go with enough ancient arrows and shoot them all.

    oosik_betsuni.png
    Steam: betsuni7
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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    Betsuni wrote: »
    If you want to really cheese the Yiga hideout you can go with enough ancient arrows and shoot them all.

    I have a few. Will they kill the big guard guys in one hit?

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    edited September 2020
    I never did find the third piece of climbing gear. Ah well.

    The Escape Goat on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Betsuni wrote: »
    If you want to really cheese the Yiga hideout you can go with enough ancient arrows and shoot them all.

    I have a few. Will they kill the big guard guys in one hit?

    It's entirely possible to bust in with a 5 shot bow or 3 shot bow and blow everything up using bomb arrows.

    It's also hilarious to do so

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    AlphagaiaAlphagaia Registered User regular
    Or just use a few bananas and stick to the ceiling. It's two rooms?

    Wanna try my Mario Maker levels?

    Shoot m to BITS (hold Y) [hard] C109-0000-014D-4E09
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    I like to move it, move it FCE2-0000-00D7-9048

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    How do you actually use the bananas? I couldn't find a way to throw them any good distance, and just dropping it where I want them to look isn't great if... well, I'm standing there

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    BetsuniBetsuni UM-R60L Talisker IVRegistered User regular
    -Loki- wrote: »
    Betsuni wrote: »
    If you want to really cheese the Yiga hideout you can go with enough ancient arrows and shoot them all.

    I have a few. Will they kill the big guard guys in one hit?

    Yep, they will kill anything with one hit.

    oosik_betsuni.png
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    They do however destroy loot as well Unless the target is a guardian. In which case they only one hit kill with an eye shot

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    BetsuniBetsuni UM-R60L Talisker IVRegistered User regular
    They do however destroy loot as well Unless the target is a guardian. In which case they only one hit kill with an eye shot

    Right, I forgot you have to hit Guardians in the eye. But for the Yiga one hour to the body and they're gone. I also second the recommendation of bomb arrows from the rafters is hilarious.

    oosik_betsuni.png
    Steam: betsuni7
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    NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    How do you actually use the bananas? I couldn't find a way to throw them any good distance, and just dropping it where I want them to look isn't great if... well, I'm standing there

    You can make noise to attract guards. Swinging your wept or sprinting should work for that end.

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    BetsuniBetsuni UM-R60L Talisker IVRegistered User regular
    How do you actually use the bananas? I couldn't find a way to throw them any good distance, and just dropping it where I want them to look isn't great if... well, I'm standing there

    It took me a while, but I also realized that you can throw "far" which helped toss it further into their cone of vision. You can also make a trail for them to follow. It took me a a long time to practice. I used the first room to practice, the second guard was the hardest for me to not mess up.

    oosik_betsuni.png
    Steam: betsuni7
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    NobeardNobeard North Carolina: Failed StateRegistered User regular
    Betsuni wrote: »
    How do you actually use the bananas? I couldn't find a way to throw them any good distance, and just dropping it where I want them to look isn't great if... well, I'm standing there

    It took me a while, but I also realized that you can throw "far" which helped toss it further into their cone of vision. You can also make a trail for them to follow. It took me a a long time to practice. I used the first room to practice, the second guard was the hardest for me to not mess up.

    Left joycon, down on the d-pad buttons to adjust throw range when you are holding things.

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    IcemopperIcemopper Registered User regular
    Holy shit I am realizing I went through the last parts of the hideout without using bananas to distract them. No wonder it took me so long to get through that.

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    BetsuniBetsuni UM-R60L Talisker IVRegistered User regular
    To be honest my first run through it was sneak past the first guard, then somehow get lucky and sneak behind the second guard, go up and snag all the bananas, then accidentally fall down and have to fight a bunch of Yiga by freaking out, freezing and shooting with shock arrows (I thought of trying to keep them in an immobile state), bomb arrows, ancient arrows, eating a lot of meals, then just casually walk around the place.

    oosik_betsuni.png
    Steam: betsuni7
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    TelMarineTelMarine Registered User regular
    I resumed playing Breath of the Wild yesterday after 3 years. I'm near the end, I had 84 shrines completed, I have the Master Sword, but I was missing 5 memories and wanted to get them all. Having great difficulty finding the rest of the memories was a big reason why I put the game down. While trying to re-learn all the controls and how to play again, I found 2 of the memory locations and 2 more shrines. Sometimes you just need long breaks from a game to remove your roadblocks. Now one day I'll have to see if I can complete Metroid Prime 2 after 15+ years...85% completion and I couldn't figure out where to go.

    3ds: 4983-4935-4575
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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    If I remember right, one of the things that helped me with that stealth section was figuring out the sight lines of the yiga. They are ridiculously sensitive and wide, and they can spot you out the corner of their eye if you try any approach that isn't 100% behind them. Just a small flick of their head can do it. Conversely, their sight line drops to near 0 when they're ogling a banana. I don't know if you can go at them head on, but it's safe to go at them from the side.

    So just... don't even try to Metal Gear Solid the section. Play it safe and use the bananas. There's an enormous pile in the hideout for a reason.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    TerrendosTerrendos Decorative Monocle Registered User regular
    TelMarine wrote: »
    I resumed playing Breath of the Wild yesterday after 3 years. I'm near the end, I had 84 shrines completed, I have the Master Sword, but I was missing 5 memories and wanted to get them all. Having great difficulty finding the rest of the memories was a big reason why I put the game down. While trying to re-learn all the controls and how to play again, I found 2 of the memory locations and 2 more shrines. Sometimes you just need long breaks from a game to remove your roadblocks. Now one day I'll have to see if I can complete Metroid Prime 2 after 15+ years...85% completion and I couldn't figure out where to go.

    Oh hey, I got stuck about that same point in MP2 and never finished it. I think I needed to backtrack and find a whole bunch of pieces of a key or something to get to the final boss, and I just kinda got bored or something. Which is odd, because love the MP games and I've beaten 1 and 3 several times each. But something about 2... I dunno. I guess you're retrieving the artifacts you need throughout Prime 1, so it's not as big of a hassle to track down the rest, and I don't recall 3 doing the "collect 10 Macguffins to unlock final boss" thing at all, though TBF I don't recall much of the endgame of that one.

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    The Escape GoatThe Escape Goat incorrigible ruminant they/themRegistered User regular
    Nobeard wrote: »
    Betsuni wrote: »
    How do you actually use the bananas? I couldn't find a way to throw them any good distance, and just dropping it where I want them to look isn't great if... well, I'm standing there

    It took me a while, but I also realized that you can throw "far" which helped toss it further into their cone of vision. You can also make a trail for them to follow. It took me a a long time to practice. I used the first room to practice, the second guard was the hardest for me to not mess up.

    Left joycon, down on the d-pad buttons to adjust throw range when you are holding things.

    This is what I was missing!
    Betsuni wrote: »
    To be honest my first run through it was sneak past the first guard, then somehow get lucky and sneak behind the second guard, go up and snag all the bananas, then accidentally fall down and have to fight a bunch of Yiga by freaking out, freezing and shooting with shock arrows (I thought of trying to keep them in an immobile state), bomb arrows, ancient arrows, eating a lot of meals, then just casually walk around the place.

    I tried this, sneak attacking as many as I could before being spotted and then going loud. Then I got one-shot by one of the big guards and I died.

    This is a problem. I had Mipha's Grace active and had four fairies in my bag. Why the fuck did I die and not rez? I suppose that's one random clause they put in to make going harder louder, but it's just such a nonsensical exclusion that isn't mentioned at all beforehand. I'm still mad that they consciously made that decision when designing the encounter.

    9uiytxaqj2j0.jpg
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    AistanAistan Tiny Bat Registered User regular
    Links fights giant monsters on the regular why are these normal-ass people able to kill him in one hit.

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    BetsuniBetsuni UM-R60L Talisker IVRegistered User regular
    Well they are ex Sheikah so their weapons have more tech in there to counter the world of Hyrule.

    Just kidding, yeah I have no idea why they made it an one hit kill in there when the same weapons outside don't do that.

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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    edited September 2020
    Nobeard wrote: »
    I am fascinated by the variety of responses to BotW. We all have Videogame Rules, carved into us by countless hours and experience and they inform how we interact with BotW. That the game is simultaneously so open and still playable, not to mention good, is amazing.

    I'm gonna say Nintendo nailed the most important aspect: Movement in this game can be fun.

    Everything else kind of flows organically from that point. It's why the weapon system isn't my thing, but I still adore the game.

    jungleroomx on
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    The Zombie PenguinThe Zombie Penguin Eternal Hungry Corpse Registered User regular
    It's not just that it's fun, it's that it adds a huge amount of texture to the game. You don't have Skyrim horse situations to climb a mountain, or being waylaid by a waist high fence. Trees are not a mystery to your monkey brain.

    This goes a long way!

    Ideas hate it when you anthropomorphize them
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    jungleroomxjungleroomx It's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovels Registered User regular
    It's not just that it's fun, it's that it adds a huge amount of texture to the game. You don't have Skyrim horse situations to climb a mountain, or being waylaid by a waist high fence. Trees are not a mystery to your monkey brain.

    This goes a long way!

    You can charge up a huge stone plate, hop on, fly half a mile in a second, hit the glider, and land on your shield to snowboard down a mountain.

    Just awesome.

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    -Loki--Loki- Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining. Registered User regular
    I still haven’t done much shield surfing, because I’m always worried I’ll need one and I used it.

This discussion has been closed.