“Twinspell
Destroy a minion. Summon 2 minions of the same Cost (up to 10) to replace it.”
Probably still too good, but it would remove the degenerate 8/8 or 7/8 only loop
Destroy a minion. Summon 2 minions costing one mana less.
sadly this wouldn't actually do anything, not really
there aren't any 11 cost minions (well, there's that shaman giant in wild, but), so it'd still just, duplicate the mountain giant. it'd get rid of the 7/8 taunt, but wouldn't do anything about a 3 mana carnivorous cube that also doesn't require an activator
better than being beating by a lowrolling pogo rogue who won through the grim certainty of 4 shuffle effects, (at least) 6 bounce effects and a tutor for the pogohopper
i played Yogg in Dalaran Heist today after playing a WHOOOOLE shitton of spells and the first fucking spell he casts is Conjurer's Calling on himself and the battlecry ended
For some reason they decided that killing your own minions either wasn't a cost or maybe was a benefit?
that's because mark of the lotus was one of the most busted buff cards they've ever printed and there's no way in hell they were going to simply reprint a 1:1 version for the defacto board flood class
i mean grim rally is still fucking insane honestly because more than half the time you're destroying a shitty token or a 1/1 or something
A huge problem with the design of the warlock sacrifice cards is that they're copies of spells from other classes PLUS an additional cost. From a class identity perspective, it makes sense that classes don't get things equally, and what costs one class very little would cost another class much more. HOWEVER, part of the core warlock class fantasy is POWER AT ANY COST...so when the effect is the exact same as another class plus a sacrifice, you don't look like someone transgressing secret magics but instead like someone who's a dumb idiot who should've just studied how to shoot a bow. They would feel better if they were more expensive and had more of an effect, even if they were worse cards.
Isn't that a highroll? Sounds like it's a Rogue having things go exactly as the deck hopes.
my point is that the deck has enough reliability/redundancy that it's not really a highrolly deck. at least compared to some.
edit: unless you got hit by a T1 pogo into shadowstep into pogo into coin into pogo. in which case yeah that's a highroll
In my case it involved him bounce-replaying a Pogohopper on 3 separate occasions to put it just outside of my ability to clear it on my turn, along with him going the entire game without drawing a single one of my bombs, including a Myra's that managed to miss 3-4 bombs.
Officially the unluckiest CCG player ever.
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UnbrokenEvaHIGH ON THE WIREBUT I WON'T TRIP ITRegistered Userregular
Guess I’m not playing this for a bit - when I try to log in on my phone with SMS protect 2-factor it sends me the code just fine, and then returns me to the original login screen to start again without anywhere to actually enter the code
A huge problem with the design of the warlock sacrifice cards is that they're copies of spells from other classes PLUS an additional cost. From a class identity perspective, it makes sense that classes don't get things equally, and what costs one class very little would cost another class much more. HOWEVER, part of the core warlock class fantasy is POWER AT ANY COST...so when the effect is the exact same as another class plus a sacrifice, you don't look like someone transgressing secret magics but instead like someone who's a dumb idiot who should've just studied how to shoot a bow. They would feel better if they were more expensive and had more of an effect, even if they were worse cards.
It's not a problem, it's a deliberate choice that ties into game balance and class themes. Warlocks "power at any cost" comes in no small part from having the best hero power in the game; giving them weaker cards helps balance the game. There's also a "cruelty for the sake of cruelty" aspect to Warlocks that thematically plays into ways that they can weaken cards. It's not that Warlocks are dumb idiots, it's that the sacrifices are the point. And then from a deckbuilding perspective, it feels awesome to find ways to turn those sacrifices into benefits - for example, playing Egg decks that blow up their own minions to improve the overall board state.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
At the end of the day if you don't want broken giant strategies you have to take the giants out.
Or, hear me out here, stop resetting their costs when they hit the board. If you played them for 3 mana, they should be a 3-mana minion. Reset the costs if they get bounced.
Again, this is something Magic actually handles well with variable cost minions, and it doesn't have the benefit of being a video game that can alter numbers on the fly.
A huge problem with the design of the warlock sacrifice cards is that they're copies of spells from other classes PLUS an additional cost. From a class identity perspective, it makes sense that classes don't get things equally, and what costs one class very little would cost another class much more. HOWEVER, part of the core warlock class fantasy is POWER AT ANY COST...so when the effect is the exact same as another class plus a sacrifice, you don't look like someone transgressing secret magics but instead like someone who's a dumb idiot who should've just studied how to shoot a bow. They would feel better if they were more expensive and had more of an effect, even if they were worse cards.
It's not a problem, it's a deliberate choice that ties into game balance and class themes. Warlocks "power at any cost" comes in no small part from having the best hero power in the game; giving them weaker cards helps balance the game. There's also a "cruelty for the sake of cruelty" aspect to Warlocks that thematically plays into ways that they can weaken cards. It's not that Warlocks are dumb idiots, it's that the sacrifices are the point. And then from a deckbuilding perspective, it feels awesome to find ways to turn those sacrifices into benefits - for example, playing Egg decks that blow up their own minions to improve the overall board state.
yeah but power at any cost is a stupid theme when you pay a big cost then don't really get any power.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
“Twinspell
Destroy a minion. Summon 2 minions of the same Cost (up to 10) to replace it.”
Probably still too good, but it would remove the degenerate 8/8 or 7/8 only loop
Destroy a minion. Summon 2 minions costing one mana less.
Why does Conjurer’s Calling need a change if that deck is only T3?
for the same reason that Quest Rogue got nerfed a bazillion times, or Ice Block got HoF'd, or Molten Giants being HoF'd
it's not a matter of power level, it's a matter of "feel". and it FEELS BAD to have an 8/8 Mountain Giant jammed down on Turn 3/4 with zero counterplay outside of JAMMING ALL YOUR MINIONS IN which even then might not be enough but even if you do that you probably just lose anyway on the spot but you need to
because otherwise the 7/8 or 8/8 train starts next turn and you lose for real
A huge problem with the design of the warlock sacrifice cards is that they're copies of spells from other classes PLUS an additional cost. From a class identity perspective, it makes sense that classes don't get things equally, and what costs one class very little would cost another class much more. HOWEVER, part of the core warlock class fantasy is POWER AT ANY COST...so when the effect is the exact same as another class plus a sacrifice, you don't look like someone transgressing secret magics but instead like someone who's a dumb idiot who should've just studied how to shoot a bow. They would feel better if they were more expensive and had more of an effect, even if they were worse cards.
It's not a problem, it's a deliberate choice that ties into game balance and class themes. Warlocks "power at any cost" comes in no small part from having the best hero power in the game; giving them weaker cards helps balance the game. There's also a "cruelty for the sake of cruelty" aspect to Warlocks that thematically plays into ways that they can weaken cards. It's not that Warlocks are dumb idiots, it's that the sacrifices are the point. And then from a deckbuilding perspective, it feels awesome to find ways to turn those sacrifices into benefits - for example, playing Egg decks that blow up their own minions to improve the overall board state.
yeah but power at any cost is a stupid theme when you pay a big cost then don't really get any power.
For example?
I mean, look at the big cost Warlock cards in Standard right now, the 5+ cost cards with drawbacks:
Dread Infernal: The drawback also can help clear a board and enable trades.
Darkest Hour: There are decks in Wild built around this effect.
Lord Godfrey: One of the most powerful board clears in the game.
Blood Troll Sapper: Arena card. Not designed to be a Standard powerhouse in the current meta game.
Twisting Nether: Wrath of God was a good card.
Void Contract: Powerful effect that they've never really balanced around before. I might give you this one.
Lord Jaraxxus: This was once one of the most powerful cards in the game.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Quest Rogue was extremely powerful and the entire deck worked to meet its goal. Cyclone Mage is four cards, and it relies entirely on luck to survive.
It’s not as if they haven’t nerfed cards because they feel bad, but that’s a terrible reason to do it. There are answers to the deck and people are already playing them.
A huge problem with the design of the warlock sacrifice cards is that they're copies of spells from other classes PLUS an additional cost. From a class identity perspective, it makes sense that classes don't get things equally, and what costs one class very little would cost another class much more. HOWEVER, part of the core warlock class fantasy is POWER AT ANY COST...so when the effect is the exact same as another class plus a sacrifice, you don't look like someone transgressing secret magics but instead like someone who's a dumb idiot who should've just studied how to shoot a bow. They would feel better if they were more expensive and had more of an effect, even if they were worse cards.
It's not a problem, it's a deliberate choice that ties into game balance and class themes. Warlocks "power at any cost" comes in no small part from having the best hero power in the game; giving them weaker cards helps balance the game. There's also a "cruelty for the sake of cruelty" aspect to Warlocks that thematically plays into ways that they can weaken cards. It's not that Warlocks are dumb idiots, it's that the sacrifices are the point. And then from a deckbuilding perspective, it feels awesome to find ways to turn those sacrifices into benefits - for example, playing Egg decks that blow up their own minions to improve the overall board state.
i think you're giving Team 5 too much credit here honestly
i don't think it's a deliberate balance choice they make based on Warlock's HP, i think they just print cards like that because they "think it's cool"
like, you're vastly underestimating just how many Timmies and Johnnies are on the design team compared to Spikes
hell, we're talking about the same dev team that printed fucking Possessed Lackey thinking "oh man what a cool card! sometimes it'll grab a 1 or 2 drop, but other times it'll grab that beefy 9 drop and it'll make for really cool moments!!!" and the community went "what if we only put big demons in our deck" and blizzard went "*suprised Pikachu face*"
giving them way too much credit. they make bad cards because they think they're cool.
Posts
?? ??? ?? ? ?
bunch of stealth/charge minions, board wide buffs, stormwind champ/mulka's champ, and 4 swipes
oh
(probably another 12? but i'm jinxing it by saying that now)
This is the line of thinking that gets you zero Mechs after the first pick.
i haven't seen a single piloted shredder offered in my last 3 arena runs
Destroy a minion. Summon 2 minions costing one mana less.
sadly this wouldn't actually do anything, not really
there aren't any 11 cost minions (well, there's that shaman giant in wild, but), so it'd still just, duplicate the mountain giant. it'd get rid of the 7/8 taunt, but wouldn't do anything about a 3 mana carnivorous cube that also doesn't require an activator
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
can we fucking unnerf Yogg already
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
my point is that the deck has enough reliability/redundancy that it's not really a highrolly deck. at least compared to some.
edit: unless you got hit by a T1 pogo into shadowstep into pogo into coin into pogo. in which case yeah that's a highroll
that's because mark of the lotus was one of the most busted buff cards they've ever printed and there's no way in hell they were going to simply reprint a 1:1 version for the defacto board flood class
i mean grim rally is still fucking insane honestly because more than half the time you're destroying a shitty token or a 1/1 or something
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Warlock has the best hero power and the worst class cards.
It's not a problem, it's a deliberate choice that ties into game balance and class themes. Warlocks "power at any cost" comes in no small part from having the best hero power in the game; giving them weaker cards helps balance the game. There's also a "cruelty for the sake of cruelty" aspect to Warlocks that thematically plays into ways that they can weaken cards. It's not that Warlocks are dumb idiots, it's that the sacrifices are the point. And then from a deckbuilding perspective, it feels awesome to find ways to turn those sacrifices into benefits - for example, playing Egg decks that blow up their own minions to improve the overall board state.
Or, hear me out here, stop resetting their costs when they hit the board. If you played them for 3 mana, they should be a 3-mana minion. Reset the costs if they get bounced.
Again, this is something Magic actually handles well with variable cost minions, and it doesn't have the benefit of being a video game that can alter numbers on the fly.
yeah but power at any cost is a stupid theme when you pay a big cost then don't really get any power.
It’s always been the reason warlock cards are generally shit. Though they’ve certainly had their fair share of broke ass stuff.
PSN: Threeve703
Why does Conjurer’s Calling need a change if that deck is only T3?
PSN: Threeve703
did we ever consider that
for the same reason that Quest Rogue got nerfed a bazillion times, or Ice Block got HoF'd, or Molten Giants being HoF'd
it's not a matter of power level, it's a matter of "feel". and it FEELS BAD to have an 8/8 Mountain Giant jammed down on Turn 3/4 with zero counterplay outside of JAMMING ALL YOUR MINIONS IN which even then might not be enough but even if you do that you probably just lose anyway on the spot but you need to
because otherwise the 7/8 or 8/8 train starts next turn and you lose for real
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
For example?
I mean, look at the big cost Warlock cards in Standard right now, the 5+ cost cards with drawbacks:
Dread Infernal: The drawback also can help clear a board and enable trades.
Darkest Hour: There are decks in Wild built around this effect.
Lord Godfrey: One of the most powerful board clears in the game.
Blood Troll Sapper: Arena card. Not designed to be a Standard powerhouse in the current meta game.
Twisting Nether: Wrath of God was a good card.
Void Contract: Powerful effect that they've never really balanced around before. I might give you this one.
Lord Jaraxxus: This was once one of the most powerful cards in the game.
It’s not as if they haven’t nerfed cards because they feel bad, but that’s a terrible reason to do it. There are answers to the deck and people are already playing them.
PSN: Threeve703
i think you're giving Team 5 too much credit here honestly
i don't think it's a deliberate balance choice they make based on Warlock's HP, i think they just print cards like that because they "think it's cool"
like, you're vastly underestimating just how many Timmies and Johnnies are on the design team compared to Spikes
hell, we're talking about the same dev team that printed fucking Possessed Lackey thinking "oh man what a cool card! sometimes it'll grab a 1 or 2 drop, but other times it'll grab that beefy 9 drop and it'll make for really cool moments!!!" and the community went "what if we only put big demons in our deck" and blizzard went "*suprised Pikachu face*"
giving them way too much credit. they make bad cards because they think they're cool.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
"Put the book down, four-eyes, and go outside."
"Pick some apples."
"Shoot a bow."
"You're gonna need to know how when the storms come."