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[Sysadmin] Routing to null

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    wunderbarwunderbar What Have I Done? Registered User regular
    Yeah I don't think "just buy a new iPhone" is a tact I would have taken either. It's probably a bug in the mail app in iOS13, which has been quite buggy overall. Another mail app might just work, at least in the short term. If you have web access to email that has responsive design could also use that until apple fixes their shit.

    XBL: thewunderbar PSN: thewunderbar NNID: thewunderbar Steam: wunderbar87 Twitter: wunderbar
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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    wunderbar wrote: »
    No, random employee, going to my manager after you and I had a conversation with a result you didn't like three different times will not result in you getting an answer you like.

    But what if it does

    Where I work it will result in to my manager going to their manager and them getting a result they really don't like.

    At my company it results in the IT manager going over to the technician and asking them to grease the squeaky wheel

    Needless to say we get a lot of squeaky wheels. It's almost like my boss incentivizes it. 🤔

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    wunderbar wrote: »
    Yeah I don't think "just buy a new iPhone" is a tact I would have taken either. It's probably a bug in the mail app in iOS13, which has been quite buggy overall. Another mail app might just work, at least in the short term. If you have web access to email that has responsive design could also use that until apple fixes their shit.

    There was a bug in the initial release of I think iOS13 that prevented ActiveSync accounts from working correctly but it was patched pretty quickly, may just be an update missing.

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
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    MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    This server upgrade keeps getting better. Roaming profiles....

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
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    lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    It's cleanup someone else's mess day...again.

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
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    SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    If you want a fucking SysAdmin 2 put that on the job req.

    Don't ask for an engineer.

    Seidkona on
    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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    That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    Seidkona wrote: »
    If you want a fucking SysAdmin 2 put that on the job req.

    Don't as for an engineer.

    Wanted: Jr helpdesk tech
    Req Exp: 5+ years of engineering

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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Seidkona wrote: »
    If you want a fucking SysAdmin 2 put that on the job req.

    Don't as for an engineer.

    Uh oh......

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    "Just buy a new iPhone" should be the new name of the thread.

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    lwt1973 wrote: »
    "Just buy a new iPhone" should be the new name of the thread.

    It's good, but this is more appropriate.
    lwt1973 wrote: »
    It's cleanup someone else's mess day...again.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Seidkona wrote: »
    If you want a fucking SysAdmin 2 put that on the job req.

    Don't as for an engineer.

    Uh oh......

    Highly frustrated right now. I keep getting derailed by scut work and corporate initiatives.

    Was told to back burner logging imporvements today.

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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    SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    lwt1973 wrote: »
    "Just buy a new iPhone" should be the new name of the thread.

    It's good, but this is more appropriate.
    lwt1973 wrote: »
    It's cleanup someone else's mess day...again.

    Open a ticket I'll get to it when I can

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Seidkona wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    lwt1973 wrote: »
    "Just buy a new iPhone" should be the new name of the thread.

    It's good, but this is more appropriate.
    lwt1973 wrote: »
    It's cleanup someone else's mess day...again.

    Open a ticket I'll get to it when I can

    Instructions unclear. Sending another email for help.

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    Seidkona wrote: »
    Shadowfire wrote: »
    lwt1973 wrote: »
    "Just buy a new iPhone" should be the new name of the thread.

    It's good, but this is more appropriate.
    lwt1973 wrote: »
    It's cleanup someone else's mess day...again.

    Open a ticket I'll get to it when I can

    Instructions unclear. Sending another email for help. Calling your boss and complaining about your lack of availability and overall low quality of service.

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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Seidkona wrote: »
    Thawmus wrote: »
    Seidkona wrote: »
    If you want a fucking SysAdmin 2 put that on the job req.

    Don't as for an engineer.

    Uh oh......

    Highly frustrated right now. I keep getting derailed by scut work and corporate initiatives.

    Was told to back burner logging imporvements today.

    Fuck. I was hoping you'd at least get a few more months into the new job before it shit on you again.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    In other news the folks trying to get me to come on board last year, and I declined and stayed, are back again this year with a Network Admin position.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    Seidkona wrote: »
    If you want a fucking SysAdmin 2 put that on the job req.

    Don't ask for an engineer.

    Does the difference actually matter at most orgs?

    IT titles are determined by dartboard.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Seidkona wrote: »
    If you want a fucking SysAdmin 2 put that on the job req.

    Don't ask for an engineer.

    Does the difference actually matter at most orgs?

    IT titles are determined by dartboard.

    I am going to steal Bowen's shank and shank you with it.

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    Seidkona wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Seidkona wrote: »
    If you want a fucking SysAdmin 2 put that on the job req.

    Don't ask for an engineer.

    Does the difference actually matter at most orgs?

    IT titles are determined by dartboard.

    I am going to steal Bowen's shank and shank you with it.

    I honestly do not understand this reaction.

    I've never seen consistency of any kind in IT titles.

    Levels, sure. Level 2 vs level 3, etc sometimes has logic behind it. Sometimes. Not always.

    But engineer vs technician vs administrator vs analyst? Just throw them in a bingo ball hopper and grab one

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    I think you're right, Feral, but I think it's also a huge problem for specialists.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    lwt1973lwt1973 King of Thieves SyndicationRegistered User regular
    I set up a Xref for an import file for one of our customers in the past and it hasn't had any issues. Two days ago about ten of their products error out and I see that they are finally standardizing their product names across all their sites instead of having it be abbreviations and spelling it out. I also see that they misspelled the products at two of their sites. I fix my Xref and tell them about the misspelling and get the we're working on standardizing right now and thanks. Fast forward to today. Whoever is renaming the products went to several other sites and changed the correct spelling to the incorrect spelling so now I have to change the Xref to the incorrect spelling on ten sites which were correct previously.

    "He's sulking in his tent like Achilles! It's the Iliad?...from Homer?! READ A BOOK!!" -Handy
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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I think you're right, Feral, but I think it's also a huge problem for specialists.

    I think this is an intentionally created 'problem'. By constantly shitposting jobs with fucked titles and descriptions they can muddy the definition of a 'systems engineer' or any other position. Both expected job responsibilities and the pay.

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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    Honest question: what would you all consider the difference between a systems engineer and a systems administrator?

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    FeldornFeldorn Mediocre Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    I mean, like, what even is an engineer anymore?

    On a more serious note, I’d expect an engineer to have a deeper understanding of the product they work with but be more focused on said product/technology.

    Feldorn on
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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited October 2019
    I personally think an "engineer" is somebody who designs new products. A network engineer works for Cisco and customizes FPGAs for routers.

    If you're buying Cisco routers and deploying them in a network, you're not an engineer, you're an administrator.

    But my literal title at work is "senior [redacted] engineer" and I don't fit my own definition so *shrug*

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    SeidkonaSeidkona Had an upgrade Registered User regular
    And this is a quintesential problem with this field.

    Mostly just huntin' monsters.
    XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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    AiouaAioua Ora Occidens Ora OptimaRegistered User regular
    I'm a Systems Engineer but I mostly do devopsy stuff that I think actually qualifies me for the title. The rest of the people on my team are proper devs and I do a lot of the legwork making sure their infrastructure is architected and set up properly.
    Plus in my spare time I'm developing little scripts and tools to make our own job easier.


    In ferals example I think you can be a network engineer without having to design the hardware. If you're out there designing and planning new networks I think that counts.

    Basically you gotta be doing more than upkeep/configuration/troubleshooting, need to be making new things in some manner or another.

    Ofc a lot of places it's just the title above admin/analyst sooo 🤷‍♀️

    life's a game that you're bound to lose / like using a hammer to pound in screws
    fuck up once and you break your thumb / if you're happy at all then you're god damn dumb
    that's right we're on a fucked up cruise / God is dead but at least we have booze
    bad things happen, no one knows why / the sun burns out and everyone dies
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    LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Yeah. My thought is that an engineer builds things, be that new applications or new networks or whatever, whereas an administrator administrates existing things. I think our industry could do well with some sort of body that defines the common job titles in broad strokes.

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    MugsleyMugsley DelawareRegistered User regular
    I just want to take the vanilla term 'engineer' back from the software/compsci people. Thanks to the app revolution, apparently mechanical and electrical things just appear.

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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    I think the largest divide really is between a network engineer and a network administrator.

    I would expect a network administrator to know his way around the Microsoft landscape and do basic routing. He'd be in charge of nearly goddamned everything and pretty much everyone in the department answers to him.

    I would expect a network engineer to know goddamn everything about BGP, MPLS, VPLS, VLANs, the works. And I would expect them to be working on routing and communication issues as their 8-5 M-F. The moment they're fucking around with software on a workstation or a server there better be a really good reason for it.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    ThawmusThawmus +Jackface Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    I just want to take the vanilla term 'engineer' back from the software/compsci people. Thanks to the app revolution, apparently mechanical and electrical things just appear.

    To this day, I have no fucking idea what a software engineer is.

    I ask if it's a programmer and I get a response that is akin to how you look at a dog when it bears its fangs.

    Twitch: Thawmus83
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    EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited October 2019
    I wonder about that frequently. Here in Swedistan "engineer" implies a civil engineering degree at bare minimum.

    edit: googling shows that "civil engineer" in English is more infrastructure stuff, but in Swedish it's the general term for that level of education. (edit2: an MSE degree)

    Echo on
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    twmjrtwmjr Registered User regular
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I think the largest divide really is between a network engineer and a network administrator.

    I would expect a network administrator to know his way around the Microsoft landscape and do basic routing. He'd be in charge of nearly goddamned everything and pretty much everyone in the department answers to him.

    I would expect a network engineer to know goddamn everything about BGP, MPLS, VPLS, VLANs, the works. And I would expect them to be working on routing and communication issues as their 8-5 M-F. The moment they're fucking around with software on a workstation or a server there better be a really good reason for it.

    I actually feel uncomfortable calling myself a "Network Engineer" when people ask what I do, even though that's ostensibly what I would be considered (though my current title is Wireless Architect, to throw another word in the mix). Yes, I build networks...but something about the word engineer to me implies a level beyond what I do similar I think to what Echo is referring to.

    That said, I agree with your general delineation between admin / engineer at least in the way we use it. Though network automation for build/deployment will end up blurring the line a bit, to your messing around with software part.

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    MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    This client I'm doing the server upgrade for also needs to replace their Windows 7 VMs with Windows 10 PCs. They bought a bunch of refurb systems as replacements but they came with Windows 7 licenses, so now I have to image something like 10 systems to Windows 7, then upgrade them all so they activate properly.

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
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    a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Echo wrote: »
    I wonder about that frequently. Here in Swedistan "engineer" implies a civil engineering degree at bare minimum.

    edit: googling shows that "civil engineer" in English is more infrastructure stuff, but in Swedish it's the general term for that level of education. (edit2: an MSE degree)

    In theory in the US, capital-E Engineer is a title (like Doctor, etc) that you're not supposed to use unless you go through the PE exams/process. This is more common in some fields than others (Civil especially). I have a MSEE but am not a PE because it just isn't needed for my field.

    In reality, *waves at all of this*.

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    Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    From my understanding of IT so far...

    Admins : day to day running of a system, configuration, setup, tear down.

    Engineers: builds new systems and designs new configurations

    Analyst : Complains about lack of documentation and sends me sla nastygrams.

    Technician: grunt work.

    In all actuality nothing matters except engineers get paid more than admins get paid more than analysts get paid more than technicians.

    I like the new gig but was told to rewrite my powershell as batch scripts because our security team doesn't let service desk run PS scripts.

    "Security"

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    schussschuss Registered User regular
    edited October 2019
    Any opinions on Kubernetes orchestrators for hybrid onprem/multicloud?

    schuss on
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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    I have opinions about referring to assembling servers and networks together as "engineering"

    Our job is not that difficult from a technical perspective. We're playing with Legos. They're prefabricated products that are designed to fit together based on universal standards with instructions for assembly.

    (This doesn't apply to devops or anybody incorporating programming or advanced scripting in their work.)

    For most of the stuff we do, we do it just by reading and following the fucking instructions.

    The challenges in our job are largely human.

    When it doesn't work, most of the time it's because either somebody's being cheap or somebody else is trying to do something that isn't within the scope of our job or the problem is poorly communicated. Either they bought Mega-blox because they didn't want to pay for Legos, or they're trying to construct a highway overpass from Legos instead of concrete, or they keep waffling between whether they want a Lego truck or a Lego spaceship. Sometimes you inherit a Lego castle and then you take off the first layer of bricks and find out that the last kid who played with it shoved french fries and a penny inside.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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    Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    I don't consider out of box products to be in the realm of a systems engineer. If we aren't building something from scratch no engineering necessary.

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    FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    I had an impromptu conference call with three different vendors today to unfuck a situation where one company's product wasn't talking to another company's service through a VPN tunnel managed by a third company

    And somehow, gloriously, I got technical people from all three vendors on the phone at once, they were all knowledgeable and competent, and the four of us worked together to solve the problem

    It's a Christmas fucking miracle

    If this kind of luck is in the air, I need to go down to the racetrack and bet on ponies

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
This discussion has been closed.