[Sysadmin] Windows attempts to mirror late 90's Linux technology.

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  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    Speaking from experience, tech support for old people and their phones is a full time job with its own salary and benefits or GTFO

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    Dizzy DbowenBlackDragon480FeralShadowfireV1mBahamutZEROmcpDarkewolfeAegis
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    I straight up told them I'm not doing tech support for old people and their phones, they're on their own for that.

    I said I'd maybe consider it for double my salary. Maybe.

    I'm in the same boat and I feel bad because the people that they have doing that are getting paid way less than me.
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I am so fucking tired of people using Zoom and Teams and not clicking on the right shit to make video and audio work, and/or ignoring red indicators asking for perms. Especially when they call me 30 minutes after their meetings are over and just simply share that it didn't work.

    Just fucking call me. Also if you're taking like 12 meetings a day and have been doing so for the past 7 months maybe you should have learned by now how to use video conferencing.

    Also gonna say fuck you to the sales guy saying, "It's because we don't have real computers so we don't have Teams."

    1. You have real computers, they just don't have Windows, they have Linux.

    2. MS has a Linux client for Teams that works exactly like the Windows client and I installed it for you 7 months ago. Again, fuck you.

    I feel very grateful. Our org has switched over almost entirely to Teams and it's really been a low burden for support. I think it helps a bit that you can always tell people to just "call the phone number in the meeting if you're having trouble". Even then, 99% of our meeting participants are joining via the actual app on PC or on mobile and we still don't have issues.

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    I straight up told them I'm not doing tech support for old people and their phones, they're on their own for that.

    I said I'd maybe consider it for double my salary. Maybe.

    I'm in the same boat and I feel bad because the people that they have doing that are getting paid way less than me.
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I am so fucking tired of people using Zoom and Teams and not clicking on the right shit to make video and audio work, and/or ignoring red indicators asking for perms. Especially when they call me 30 minutes after their meetings are over and just simply share that it didn't work.

    Just fucking call me. Also if you're taking like 12 meetings a day and have been doing so for the past 7 months maybe you should have learned by now how to use video conferencing.

    Also gonna say fuck you to the sales guy saying, "It's because we don't have real computers so we don't have Teams."

    1. You have real computers, they just don't have Windows, they have Linux.

    2. MS has a Linux client for Teams that works exactly like the Windows client and I installed it for you 7 months ago. Again, fuck you.

    I feel very grateful. Our org has switched over almost entirely to Teams and it's really been a low burden for support. I think it helps a bit that you can always tell people to just "call the phone number in the meeting if you're having trouble". Even then, 99% of our meeting participants are joining via the actual app on PC or on mobile and we still don't have issues.

    @LD50

    Does Teams remember your audio settings from one meeting to the next?

    Our only glitch with Teams is that for myself (and other users), Teams always drops back to the default audio device on the computer, every single time, and you have to start every meeting by telling it explicitly to use your headset.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    Feldorn wrote: »
    @Feral If I wanted to spec out a VMWare Horizon install because I was asked to provide it, what do I even need for licenses?

    This is for the same stuff I was asking about awhile back, it will only be application virtualization for some old web apps that we need to provide external access to. Also yes, I realize this is totally overkill for that purpose.

    @Feldorn

    Jesus christ, overkill is right. What the fuck.

    Anyway... if you just want to deliver an application (like a web browser) and not a full desktop, then you basically have two options:

    Horizon perpetual licensing. This comes in Standard, Advanced, and Enterprise tiers. For what you're doing, you'll want Enterprise. That's $500 per user upfront, plus $150 per user recurring annually for support. (Any halfway decent VAR will get you much lower prices if you're ordering in high volumes.)

    Horizon Universal subscription. I'm honestly not sure how much this costs It's a monthly or annual recurring cost per user, and I do know that it comes out to be more expensive than Enterprise across a 3-year TCO. It gives you both on-prem Enterprise licensing plus additional cloud features for hosting on AWS/Azure/etc.

    In both cases, you have the choice between named user and concurrent user. Based on what you're describing, it'll probably be CCU.

    You'll also need to review the OS and application licensing. If your plan is to deliver a web browser running on Windows to people outside your organization... I'm pretty sure that's going to require VDA licensing, but I would double-check with a Microsoft VAR on that.

    As for VMware licensing, any Horizon license entitles you to run the VMware ESXi hypervisor and VMware VCenter, as long as you're only using those two products to manage the Horizon environment.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    Feldorn
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    LD50 wrote: »
    bowen wrote: »
    I straight up told them I'm not doing tech support for old people and their phones, they're on their own for that.

    I said I'd maybe consider it for double my salary. Maybe.

    I'm in the same boat and I feel bad because the people that they have doing that are getting paid way less than me.
    Thawmus wrote: »
    I am so fucking tired of people using Zoom and Teams and not clicking on the right shit to make video and audio work, and/or ignoring red indicators asking for perms. Especially when they call me 30 minutes after their meetings are over and just simply share that it didn't work.

    Just fucking call me. Also if you're taking like 12 meetings a day and have been doing so for the past 7 months maybe you should have learned by now how to use video conferencing.

    Also gonna say fuck you to the sales guy saying, "It's because we don't have real computers so we don't have Teams."

    1. You have real computers, they just don't have Windows, they have Linux.

    2. MS has a Linux client for Teams that works exactly like the Windows client and I installed it for you 7 months ago. Again, fuck you.

    I feel very grateful. Our org has switched over almost entirely to Teams and it's really been a low burden for support. I think it helps a bit that you can always tell people to just "call the phone number in the meeting if you're having trouble". Even then, 99% of our meeting participants are joining via the actual app on PC or on mobile and we still don't have issues.

    @LD50

    Does Teams remember your audio settings from one meeting to the next?

    Our only glitch with Teams is that for myself (and other users), Teams always drops back to the default audio device on the computer, every single time, and you have to start every meeting by telling it explicitly to use your headset.

    This isn't something we've ran into. I haven't had to think about what audio device teams is using.

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    @Feldorn

    I'm not nearly as familiar with using Horizon for application delivery as I am with using it for desktop delivery.

    For desktops, you generally don't want to exceed 3 vcores per pcore. 2:1 is better. So let's say your host server has 2 CPUs, and each CPU has 16 cores. That gives you 32 pcores total. You give each virtual desktop 2 vcores, and you keep a 2:1 vcore:pcore ratio. That means 32 virtual desktops per host. (Hyperthreading will let you squeeze another 25% out of your CPUs. Don't count a hyperthreaded core as 2 cores; count it as 1.25 cores. Just a rule of thumb.)

    The days when we could count on memory overcommitment and page sharing in a virtual environment are more or less gone. So if you're delivering 32 desktops with 8GB RAM each, you want your server to have 256GB of RAM. So this puts you up around $10k per physical host. That's roughly $300 per user for compute layer costs.

    It's possible that just delivering an application requires a lot less silicon than delivering an entire virtual desktop. I don't have enough hands on experience to know. If so, great!

    I'm just saying that for VDI on Horizon, the compute & virtualization layer have pushed us up to around $800 per user (on the Horizon Enterprise tier) and we haven't yet dealt with storage or OS licensing. For most deployments, we're probably also going to need to think about thin clients and thin client management. And then you're shifting your basic desktop administration away from your (low-paid) helpdesk over to (higher-paid) sysadmins. When we say "don't expect VDI to save you any money", this is why. It never does.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    LD50
  • FeldornFeldorn Mediocre Registered User regular
    @Feral thanks, I think that would be even more crazy than using Citrix. We're aware this more than is needed, but sometimes management asks for specific things and that's what we end up delivering.

    re: Teams, I've haven't had issues with audio devices changing even when I've had my headphones unplugged and then plugged them back in. I've run into it with other things, like Jabber.

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  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Feral, is your environment running windows 10?

  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    BTW sure as fucking shit when they let me remote in it was obvious and apparent what was wrong.

    They needed to click the fucking button that said Join Meeting.

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  • FeldornFeldorn Mediocre Registered User regular
    edited October 2
    Thawmus wrote: »
    BTW sure as fucking shit when they let me remote in it was obvious and apparent what was wrong.

    They needed to click the fucking button that said Join Meeting.

    *WE'VE TRIED NOTHING AND WE'RE ALL OUT OF IDEAS!*

    edit: this is why I'm attempting to teach my kids some problem solving skills (since they like to ask how to do things on platforms I haven't heard of before). "Dad, how do I do this?" - "Well... what have you tried?" - "/surprisedpikachu" - "Ok, look around and see if anything looks like what you want to do." - "/points at the right button" - "That looks like it would make sense..."

    Feldorn on
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  • ThawmusThawmus Registered User regular
    It's a swift reminder that I entered this industry because I was willing to browse application menus.

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    LD50iTunesIsEvilMugsleyFeral
  • NEO|PhyteNEO|Phyte They follow the stars, bound together. Strands in a braid till the end.Registered User regular
    It was that somehow, from within the derelict-horror, they had learned a way to see inside an ugly, broken thing... And take away its pain.
    Warframe/Steam: NFyt
    DrovekCarpyBlackDragon480MugsleyjungleroomxFeldornShadowfireThawmusa5ehrenFeraldjmitchellaAegis
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    Feral, is your environment running windows 10?

    @LD50

    Yes.

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    Manager: "when I go to mail.domain.com, I don't get OWA. I just get the Outlook web interface. Is there a separate URL for OWA?"

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    FeldornCarpyLD50InfidelThawmusDizzy DMugsleyShadowfireBlackDragon480
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Manager: "when I go to mail.domain.com, I don't get OWA. I just get the Outlook web interface. Is there a separate URL for OWA?"

    Just push them off a cliff.

    That_GuyThawmusAiouaiTunesIsEvilDrovekmcpAntoshkaAegis
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    LD50 wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    Manager: "when I go to mail.domain.com, I don't get OWA. I just get the Outlook web interface. Is there a separate URL for OWA?"

    Just push them off a cliff.

    note that this is the same guy who is pushing hard for O365 because he thinks it makes Exchange backups easier

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    It's a shame because overall I honestly really like him, he's just really weird about Outlook and Exchange stuff

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Kick me from the thread I'm officially moving fully out of on keyboard work and full time into managing teams.

    What is this I don't even.
    FeralThawmus
  • FeldornFeldorn Mediocre Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Kick me from the thread I'm officially moving fully out of on keyboard work and full time into managing teams.

    Microsoft Teams?

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    zerzhulDrovekLD50DarkewolfeFeralThawmus
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    Feldorn wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Kick me from the thread I'm officially moving fully out of on keyboard work and full time into managing teams.

    Microsoft Teams?

    If so, Feral has some questions for you re. audio device selection.

    FeldornFeralThawmus
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Feldorn wrote: »
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Kick me from the thread I'm officially moving fully out of on keyboard work and full time into managing teams.

    Microsoft Teams?

    You could go ahead and shoot me were that the case.

    What is this I don't even.
    FeldornThawmusMugsleyBlackDragon480
  • FeldornFeldorn Mediocre Registered User regular
    What do y’all do for MDM and MAM?

    I’m especially interested in combining it with Apple Business Manager and the Android Equivalent to manage the device account.

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  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    Feldorn wrote: »
    What do y’all do for MDM and MAM?

    I’m especially interested in combining it with Apple Business Manager and the Android Equivalent to manage the device account.

    Our MDM solution sucks and I don't recommend it.

    However, the combination of Apple Business Manager plus Device Enrollment Program (DEP) is fantastic. Definitely get your company on DEP as soon as you can, and get your Apple reseller to use your DEP number. It makes working with Apple devices much easier to deal with. Combine Business Manager + DEP + good VAR + halfway decent MDM and you can make Apple devices sing.

    (Also, there is no android equivalent to Apple Business Manager because Android is a much more open platform. There's just no need for it.)

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    Feldorn
  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    Feldorn wrote: »
    What do y’all do for MDM and MAM?

    I’m especially interested in combining it with Apple Business Manager and the Android Equivalent to manage the device account.

    Our company has mostly said "f company phones" and just gone with O365 stuff in native app form.

    LD50
  • LD50LD50 Registered User regular
    schuss wrote: »
    Feldorn wrote: »
    What do y’all do for MDM and MAM?

    I’m especially interested in combining it with Apple Business Manager and the Android Equivalent to manage the device account.

    Our company has mostly said "f company phones" and just gone with O365 stuff in native app form.

    That is exactly what we have done and it's great.

  • schussschuss Registered User regular
    I'll also say as an end user that would never install any of our stuff because of the device control stuff you had to allow, it's also better for me as I can check my email when I need but I don't need to worry about remote wipe/snooping (not that they would anyway, but it's my phone not theirs).

  • FeldornFeldorn Mediocre Registered User regular
    We still have a lot of company phones and people want to utilize them more. We also have a growing GIS presence which can make use of mobiles.

    O365 apps are probably in the future for us, but not yet.

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  • FFFF Once Upon a Time In OaklandRegistered User regular
    Feral wrote: »
    Feldorn wrote: »
    What do y’all do for MDM and MAM?

    I’m especially interested in combining it with Apple Business Manager and the Android Equivalent to manage the device account.

    Our MDM solution sucks and I don't recommend it.

    However, the combination of Apple Business Manager plus Device Enrollment Program (DEP) is fantastic. Definitely get your company on DEP as soon as you can, and get your Apple reseller to use your DEP number. It makes working with Apple devices much easier to deal with. Combine Business Manager + DEP + good VAR + halfway decent MDM and you can make Apple devices sing.

    (Also, there is no android equivalent to Apple Business Manager because Android is a much more open platform. There's just no need for it.)

    We've got Apple Business Manager, plus DEP, and Jamf. We're this close, to full on, no-touch, setup of machines.

    Huh...
    MugsleyFeral
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Feldorn wrote: »
    What do y’all do for MDM and MAM?

    I’m especially interested in combining it with Apple Business Manager and the Android Equivalent to manage the device account.

    What's your use case: Is this enterprise issued and owned devices and you just need to manage them, or is this a BYOD situation and you want to do MAM for specific data/applications?

    What is this I don't even.
  • FeldornFeldorn Mediocre Registered User regular
    Darkewolfe wrote: »
    Feldorn wrote: »
    What do y’all do for MDM and MAM?

    I’m especially interested in combining it with Apple Business Manager and the Android Equivalent to manage the device account.

    What's your use case: Is this enterprise issued and owned devices and you just need to manage them, or is this a BYOD situation and you want to do MAM for specific data/applications?

    Enterprise owned devices. We want to be able to track the assets and manage to account used on them. We want to be able to push out specific applications as well. I don’t think BYOD is currently on the table.

    steam_sig.png
  • That_GuyThat_Guy I don't wanna be that guy Registered User regular
    I think SolarWindws N-Central offers basic MDM.

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  • FeldornFeldorn Mediocre Registered User regular
    Had a cock up retiring a DC which caused a partial outage on an old Citrix farm.

    See, I didn’t consider that when I remove the old DC with DCPromo the it doesn’t clean the NS records out of the forward lookup zones. So I’d left a sub domain with 2 NS records and only one DC. That was a pain to troubleshoot. I also didn’t know it wasn’t set to do zone transfers for that sub.

    Fortunately the guy who set the environment up was looking at it pondering why all the STA servers weren’t responding even though they were online.

    So I learned something today, and it was DNS.

    steam_sig.png
  • RandomHajileRandomHajile Not actually a Snatcher The New KremlinRegistered User regular
    Feldorn wrote: »
    Had a cock up retiring a DC which caused a partial outage on an old Citrix farm.

    See, I didn’t consider that when I remove the old DC with DCPromo the it doesn’t clean the NS records out of the forward lookup zones. So I’d left a sub domain with 2 NS records and only one DC. That was a pain to troubleshoot. I also didn’t know it wasn’t set to do zone transfers for that sub.

    Fortunately the guy who set the environment up was looking at it pondering why all the STA servers weren’t responding even though they were online.

    So I learned something today, and it was DNS.
    Sometimes it does clean up those records! But my experience is that it fully cleans them out around 1/4 of the time, which means it is basically never.

  • Bendery It Like BeckhamBendery It Like Beckham Hopeless Registered User regular
    Sanity Check please; Skype for Bidness implementation of the H264 codec has a max recording resolution 1920x1080. No matter what software you install, you will never be able to record someone elses presentation at a higher resolution than that. Recording a presentation at higher resolution will require a different video recorder used by the presenter.

    True/False?

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    Heh. Our migration to O365 is now on indefinite hold because somebody on our board had sticker shock at the cost

    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
    ThawmusShadowfireMugsleyBlackDragon480
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited October 17
    I'm certain it'll come back up when we start pushing to update Office (currently 2016 volume licensing) maybe in 2024

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • FeldornFeldorn Mediocre Registered User regular
    It ain’t cheap for sure.

    As an org that is ~1500 users we didn’t move to O365 to save money, but it’s a lot of platforms and infrastructure that we don’t need to know how to maintain. We weren’t on Exchange before moving.

    steam_sig.png
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    We have a few people who were randomly selected as sacrifices testers for O365. I know the migration is coming soon. #fedgov

  • Dizzy DDizzy D NetherlandsRegistered User regular
    edited October 22
    That feeling when you have completely done everything on your end for a migration and then the other party didn't even create the source share or put the NTFS rights on that source share that your application is supposed to get its data from despite numerous requests by the project leader.

    Dizzy D on
    Steam/Origin: davydizzy
    FeralFeldorn
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