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Corpses and Coteries: The Tabletop Games Thread Rises

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Posts

  • SCREECH OF THE FARGSCREECH OF THE FARG #1 PARROTHEAD margaritavilleRegistered User regular
    edited April 8
    I remembered, cyberpunk 3.0

    xzqk5iasb7yb.jpg


    It's certainly a unique aesthetic!

    SCREECH OF THE FARG on
    SYhhzZG.jpg?2?8605
    BahamutZERORingotzeentchlingironsizide
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    I think the decision to go with photography rather than illustrations is one of the big missteps of V5.

    I have yet to see photographs of people (or, more commonly, heavily filtered/edited photographs that are supposed to no longer look like photographs) work in a board or roleplaying game

    I'm not entirely sure why it doesn't work, but it sets off some sort of uncanny valley switch for me or something

    I think it's more difficult to put yourself in the role when it's photography, and we're more acutely aware that it's a real thing that's really happening and it heightens the sense of "it's all pretend".

    Like the art at the top of this thread, for instance, whether you like it or not it's easy to go "yeah I'll be one of those motherfuckers", whereas if that were a photograph it would... look like a LARP. LARPs are fun, I'm sure! They also, from the outside, often look kind of goofy.

    There's actually some pretty cool art in the book! It's a shame they didn't use more of it! This kind of nsfw image is pretty evocative for instance! What's that lady's deal? Seems like she's living a life!

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

    SCREECH OF THE FARGJacobkoshchrishallett83H3KnucklesElldren
  • StraightziStraightzi Here we may reign secure, and in my choice, To reign is worth ambition though in HellRegistered User regular
    Yeah, that's why I evoked uncanny valley

    I think we think about RPG characters as these big stylized comic book types, even if we don't necessarily vocalize that design

    Seeing someone actually wearing an all leather outfit with fangs, or even someone actually in a suit of armor

    It pulls you out of that stylization

    GrogH3Knuckles
  • expendableexpendable Silly Goose Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    I think the decision to go with photography rather than illustrations is one of the big missteps of V5.

    I have yet to see photographs of people (or, more commonly, heavily filtered/edited photographs that are supposed to no longer look like photographs) work in a board or roleplaying game

    I'm not entirely sure why it doesn't work, but it sets off some sort of uncanny valley switch for me or something

    I think it's more difficult to put yourself in the role when it's photography, and we're more acutely aware that it's a real thing that's really happening and it heightens the sense of "it's all pretend".

    Like the art at the top of this thread, for instance, whether you like it or not it's easy to go "yeah I'll be one of those motherfuckers", whereas if that were a photograph it would... look like a LARP. LARPs are fun, I'm sure! They also, from the outside, often look kind of goofy.

    There's actually some pretty cool art in the book! It's a shame they didn't use more of it! This kind of nsfw image is pretty evocative for instance! What's that lady's deal? Seems like she's living a life!

    What the fuck is going on with the top of her dress?

    Djiem wrote: »
    Lokiamis wrote: »
    So the servers suddenly decide to cramp up during the last six percent.
    Man, the Director will really go out of his way to be a dick to L4D players.
    Steam
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    I think the decision to go with photography rather than illustrations is one of the big missteps of V5.

    I have yet to see photographs of people (or, more commonly, heavily filtered/edited photographs that are supposed to no longer look like photographs) work in a board or roleplaying game

    I'm not entirely sure why it doesn't work, but it sets off some sort of uncanny valley switch for me or something

    I think it's more difficult to put yourself in the role when it's photography, and we're more acutely aware that it's a real thing that's really happening and it heightens the sense of "it's all pretend".

    Like the art at the top of this thread, for instance, whether you like it or not it's easy to go "yeah I'll be one of those motherfuckers", whereas if that were a photograph it would... look like a LARP. LARPs are fun, I'm sure! They also, from the outside, often look kind of goofy.

    There's actually some pretty cool art in the book! It's a shame they didn't use more of it! This kind of nsfw image is pretty evocative for instance! What's that lady's deal? Seems like she's living a life!

    she has a real cool fashion sense

    BahamutZERO.gif
    GrogH3Knuckles
  • ArdentArdent extra Registered User regular
    Tube wrote: »
    There's actually some pretty cool art in the book! It's a shame they didn't use more of it! This kind of nsfw image is pretty evocative for instance! What's that lady's deal? Seems like she's living a life!
    My guess is that buying quality illustration art is getting really, really expensive. They're looking at mixed media as a way of controlling art costs, which is cool.

    When I look at that image it seems poorly composed for use in an RPG supplement. But if it's supposed to be evocative of the environment or setting (and without knowing the instructions the artist was given, it's just speculating), I guess that's alright. Although if it's sized like that in the actual book that feels like a layout mistake to me.

    Steam ID | Origin ID: ArdentX | Uplay ID: theardent | Battle.net: Ardent#11476
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Bad Opinion Haver Registered User regular
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    I think the decision to go with photography rather than illustrations is one of the big missteps of V5.

    I have yet to see photographs of people (or, more commonly, heavily filtered/edited photographs that are supposed to no longer look like photographs) work in a board or roleplaying game

    I'm not entirely sure why it doesn't work, but it sets off some sort of uncanny valley switch for me or something

    I feel like it works pretty well in Unknown Armies.

    But that games whole deal is being an ever increasing dog whistle in your ears that settles in the uncanny valley part of your psyche.

    Mostly I think it's that people use photography to save money when, in reality, evoking the kind of stuff you want for most RPG settings in a photo costs more money than the art. Not less.

    Straightzi
  • Hexmage-PAHexmage-PA Registered User regular
    edited April 8
    So in my next session the party is going to be in Malsheem, Asmodeus' palace at the very bottom of Nessus, the final layer of the Nine Hells.

    They're level 14.

    I want to sell that they need to be clever to survive here, that they're in a place where they are not the top dogs. Just running into combat encounters willy nilly will end with a TPK as there's gonna be a number of pit fiend guards. Clever tactics, spells, "tactical retreats", and ways to cut-off pursuit are vital. The focus should be to get in, accomplish their goal, and get out.

    I've given them a lillend ally (which I'm going to base on a planetar with some of the innate spells replaced with bard spells) and a homebrew magic item that allows a 1 minute short rest and a 4 hour long rest (both once per day). They also have multiple sources of healing, including two paladins, a druid/ranger with a staff of healing, and several healing potions.

    I don't know exactly who will be able to attend next session, but the entirety of PCs looks like this:

    - Oath of Ancients Paladin
    - Oath of Vengeance Paladin (this one has revivify, not sure about the other)
    - Berserker Barbarian
    - Druid/Ranger
    - Diviner Wizard
    - Enchanter Wizard
    - Illusionist Wizard

    Any suggestions?

    Hexmage-PA on
    Friend Code: 1590-5696-7916
    Friend Safari Type: Rock
  • RingoRingo Out of things to say Heartbreak HillRegistered User regular
    captaink wrote: »
    Glazius wrote: »
    captaink wrote: »
    I've got to make a late-TOS era Engineer for my upcoming Star Trek campaign. Need to have a look at the book and see what my options are.

    Star Trek nerds: How long has the Federation been a thing at the end of TOS?

    ...man, that's not in the rulebook?

    Founded 2161, original series ran 2265-2269.

    Original series was also written without precise time declarations so nobody would push their glasses up and actually according to Moore's Law technical advancement couldn't possibly have

    I didn't have it handy, it may be. So ~100 years. Any starfleet crew would probably be third generation federation members at this point.

    It's sort of a Voyager long, deep mission concept. I was thinking of a human that has only just gotten used to the existing Federation species, and is reluctant to meet even more new ones, but even at this point things are probably pretty cosmopolitan.

    @Captaink "I was raised on a xenophobic colony world"

    It dosen't even have to be racist/awful, could be predominantly people wanting to homestead out in the galactic wilderness, or humans that were bummed that alien tech and culture had left them so little left to explore and discover the decide to rough it on their own

    Could be a natural pull to Starfleet too, exploring the unknown, being "first"

    Sterica wrote: »
    I know my last visit to my grandpa on his deathbed was to find out how the whole Nazi werewolf thing turned out.
    Edcrab's Exigency RPG
    captaink
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    Tube wrote: »
    Straightzi wrote: »
    Tube wrote: »
    I think the decision to go with photography rather than illustrations is one of the big missteps of V5.

    I have yet to see photographs of people (or, more commonly, heavily filtered/edited photographs that are supposed to no longer look like photographs) work in a board or roleplaying game

    I'm not entirely sure why it doesn't work, but it sets off some sort of uncanny valley switch for me or something

    I think it's more difficult to put yourself in the role when it's photography, and we're more acutely aware that it's a real thing that's really happening and it heightens the sense of "it's all pretend".

    Like the art at the top of this thread, for instance, whether you like it or not it's easy to go "yeah I'll be one of those motherfuckers", whereas if that were a photograph it would... look like a LARP. LARPs are fun, I'm sure! They also, from the outside, often look kind of goofy.

    There's actually some pretty cool art in the book! It's a shame they didn't use more of it! This kind of nsfw image is pretty evocative for instance! What's that lady's deal? Seems like she's living a life!

    she has a real cool fashion sense

    They got a fashion designer to run up a bunch of concepts for each clan. If you're into fashion it's probably pretty cool! They're all heavy on the runway look though, which isn't my thing.

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

  • MorivethMoriveth ESCA FLOWNERegistered User regular
    My parents are (hopefully) taking the kids out on Sunday so... We might actually get to play a board game? Or we'll just sleep.

    chrishallett83never dieSlacker71Shadowen
  • BahamutZEROBahamutZERO Registered User regular
    my conception of vampires is that they would be into wearing impractical runway stuff

    BahamutZERO.gif
    Endless_SerpentsGrogSlacker71ShadowenElldren
  • captainkcaptaink TexasRegistered User regular
    Ringo wrote: »
    captaink wrote: »
    Glazius wrote: »
    captaink wrote: »
    I've got to make a late-TOS era Engineer for my upcoming Star Trek campaign. Need to have a look at the book and see what my options are.

    Star Trek nerds: How long has the Federation been a thing at the end of TOS?

    ...man, that's not in the rulebook?

    Founded 2161, original series ran 2265-2269.

    Original series was also written without precise time declarations so nobody would push their glasses up and actually according to Moore's Law technical advancement couldn't possibly have

    I didn't have it handy, it may be. So ~100 years. Any starfleet crew would probably be third generation federation members at this point.

    It's sort of a Voyager long, deep mission concept. I was thinking of a human that has only just gotten used to the existing Federation species, and is reluctant to meet even more new ones, but even at this point things are probably pretty cosmopolitan.

    @Captaink "I was raised on a xenophobic colony world"

    It dosen't even have to be racist/awful, could be predominantly people wanting to homestead out in the galactic wilderness, or humans that were bummed that alien tech and culture had left them so little left to explore and discover the decide to rough it on their own

    Could be a natural pull to Starfleet too, exploring the unknown, being "first"

    Hmmm, maybe the colony was like that. A basically humans-only colony that's kind of a small backwater. People that didn't want to engage with the Federation. But my character rejects that upbringing and wants to experience the galaxy. Then I get the most extreme version of that on our 10 year mission.

    Ringo
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    my conception of vampires is that they would be into wearing impractical runway stuff

    The normal lore thing is that they blend in most of the time and wear crazy shit at vampire only parties

    Hobnail wrote: »
    This forum has taken everything from me
    This hurts but I deserve it

    Auralynx
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    One thing I will always appreciate about White Wolf and Vampire is that it's a major game line that actually cares - in ways ranging from thoughtful to goofy - about stuff like fashion and subcultures (especially goth and metal, of course, but other ones too) that tend to fall outside of the traditional geek-culture sphere. If it had never come along, every modern-day RPG would have one clothing option: khaki cargo pants with a calculator holster ("because why would you ever need anything else?").

    descBrainleechMahnmut3clipseElddrikSolarAuralynxnever dieKristmas KthulhuShadowenElldren
  • PlatyPlaty anything but regular Registered User regular
    V5 the way Tube talks about it sounds really really cool

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    One thing I will always appreciate about White Wolf and Vampire is that it's a major game line that actually cares - in ways ranging from thoughtful to goofy - about stuff like fashion and subcultures (especially goth and metal, of course, but other ones too) that tend to fall outside of the traditional geek-culture sphere. If it had never come along, every modern-day RPG would have one clothing option: khaki cargo pants with a calculator holster ("because why would you ever need anything else?").

    I feel like this is ignoring Shadowrun which has its own version of this, albeit different subcultures. I also don't know 1st edition of SR very well so I'm not sure if those focuses were there then. I also think that the percent that were completely oblivious to that part of the game was way higher in SR.

  • PlatyPlaty anything but regular Registered User regular
    edited April 9
    I feel like a way to get around the "you can't really affect the world" problem of Vampire would be to make the game more personal, more about the stories of the PCs - smaller-scale conflicts get emotionally magnified when they're about you or your character. For example, trying to find a thief who stole from a shop can get boring quickly, but it's different when that thief stole from you.

    The hunger thing seems to enable this to some degree

    I might be wrong since I've never personally played any edition of Vampire

    Platy on
  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    New player is joining the party before the heist starts. They want to play a warlock, so I'm looking for ways to translate the feel of a D&D warlock into this homebrew system. Some thoughts I'm having, in no particular order:
    1) XP is the meta currency in this game. I could utilize it to represent the tempo of "curry favor with patron" vs. "spend favor to use powers" by giving the player XP triggers related to their patron, and strong moves that require XP to activate. The problem with this is that there are obviously other ways to gain XP, so the player could straight-up ignore their patron's demands and still fuel their abilities, mechanically speaking. I could introduce a second meta currency for this player specifically, but I don't want to get too far down the book-keeping rabbit hole here. XP-as-favor is also a problem because other players will eventually be gaining XP-fueled abilities and equipment, so over time the Warlock would stop feeling like their own thing and just like everybody else.

    2) I want to lean into the PbtA ability for more narrative abilities here by allowing the patron's intervention and support to be a little more freeform, but I want to put limitations on it so that it's not just, "Roll +Charisma to delete any problem." I'm thinking I may give the player a list of possible domains, and let them select 3 as their patron's portfolio. Then, all of the Warlock's powers, interventions, and requests must be related to that portfolio. So for example, your patron's portfolio doesn't include healing, which means you can't replace that arm you lost no matter how much favor you have with your patron. However, you did select the artifice domain, so maybe you can get a prosthetic limb. Or maybe you selected the grave domain, so now your severed arm tags along with you as a zombie minion. Or maybe you chose the animal domain, so if you please your patron enough they may send a monkey companion to help you with tasks that require two hands. Basically, limit the kinds of solutions the patron can provide, and thereby limit the problems those solutions can address. My main worries with this approach are that it might be too powerful (why would you ever need another move besides patron intervention, if you chose your portfolio carefully?), and that it may be too cleric-y and not warlock-y enough. I could limit direct patron intervention to once per chapter to address the power level, I guess, and have them rely on specific spell effects like the Psychic does the rest of the time, but with a more limited effect list than the Psychic.

    3) I could take a procedural approach to generating the patron, by asking the player a series of questions that lay out different elements of the patron mechanically. For instance:

    What does your patron expect of you? (This defines an XP trigger)
    What boon does your patron grant you? (Choose a domain, get a spell or piece of equipment related to that domain)
    How does your patron reveal their glory? (Choose a domain, any direct interventions by your patron will fall within that domain)
    How does your patron make their will known? (Choose a domain, any explicit communications from your patron will be characterized by that domain)

    And so on. A gradual expansion of the narrative elements that in turn defines the mechanics.

    Grog
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    Platy wrote: »
    V5 the way Tube talks about it sounds really really cool

    Not to short-sell what Tube is doing, but V5 or any White Wolf game played by adults with a social conscience and self-awareness is way better than a White Wolf game played by people who haven't fully developed those things. There's a lot of potential in what White Wolf lays out, but people who only see a tiny "I get to beat guys up as a Werewolf," / "I get to be a sweet edgelord vampire," fraction of it are a poor ensemble to realize it with. They're also the average audience for the games, which is problematic.

    Space... what is the point of it? You have no idea.
    OSvv7zs.png


  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited April 9
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    One thing I will always appreciate about White Wolf and Vampire is that it's a major game line that actually cares - in ways ranging from thoughtful to goofy - about stuff like fashion and subcultures (especially goth and metal, of course, but other ones too) that tend to fall outside of the traditional geek-culture sphere. If it had never come along, every modern-day RPG would have one clothing option: khaki cargo pants with a calculator holster ("because why would you ever need anything else?").

    I feel like this is ignoring Shadowrun which has its own version of this, albeit different subcultures. I also don't know 1st edition of SR very well so I'm not sure if those focuses were there then. I also think that the percent that were completely oblivious to that part of the game was way higher in SR.

    Shadowrun's weird. It kind of zigs and zags between the fact that it's a cyberpunk game, and street culture is an essential part of the cyberpunk formula (or else you just have "cyber"), but it's also a game made by FASA, who had a very old-school grognardy, "I have a wall full of Alastair MacLean and Frederick Forsyth military thrillers with swastikas on the spine and I play 50-hour wargames" corporate culture and I feel like the latter kind of won out as the editions went on.

    The first edition is more like a cyberpunk game and is like oh hey, maybe you're a celebrity! Maybe you're a punk rocker! and it feels like the line just kind of gradually morphed from plucky ragtag groups of heisters and street criminals and revolutionaries into this futuristic spec-ops thing where leather-clad cyborged-out corporate tools go on Matrix-style lobby massacres. To the point where it felt like a lot of fans, or at least a lot of the vocal fans, were kind of mad at the HBS video games for being too humane and letting you make too much positive change in the gameworld.

    I do think the game was probably more conscious of fashion and subcultures and trends than most but it seems to keep them at arms' length, like it's background flavor, where White Wolf felt like it embraced (har) it more.

    Jacobkosh on
    3clipse
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    WACriminal wrote: »
    New player is joining the party before the heist starts. They want to play a warlock, so I'm looking for ways to translate the feel of a D&D warlock into this homebrew system. Some thoughts I'm having, in no particular order:
    1) XP is the meta currency in this game. I could utilize it to represent the tempo of "curry favor with patron" vs. "spend favor to use powers" by giving the player XP triggers related to their patron, and strong moves that require XP to activate. The problem with this is that there are obviously other ways to gain XP, so the player could straight-up ignore their patron's demands and still fuel their abilities, mechanically speaking. I could introduce a second meta currency for this player specifically, but I don't want to get too far down the book-keeping rabbit hole here. XP-as-favor is also a problem because other players will eventually be gaining XP-fueled abilities and equipment, so over time the Warlock would stop feeling like their own thing and just like everybody else.

    2) I want to lean into the PbtA ability for more narrative abilities here by allowing the patron's intervention and support to be a little more freeform, but I want to put limitations on it so that it's not just, "Roll +Charisma to delete any problem." I'm thinking I may give the player a list of possible domains, and let them select 3 as their patron's portfolio. Then, all of the Warlock's powers, interventions, and requests must be related to that portfolio. So for example, your patron's portfolio doesn't include healing, which means you can't replace that arm you lost no matter how much favor you have with your patron. However, you did select the artifice domain, so maybe you can get a prosthetic limb. Or maybe you selected the grave domain, so now your severed arm tags along with you as a zombie minion. Or maybe you chose the animal domain, so if you please your patron enough they may send a monkey companion to help you with tasks that require two hands. Basically, limit the kinds of solutions the patron can provide, and thereby limit the problems those solutions can address. My main worries with this approach are that it might be too powerful (why would you ever need another move besides patron intervention, if you chose your portfolio carefully?), and that it may be too cleric-y and not warlock-y enough. I could limit direct patron intervention to once per chapter to address the power level, I guess, and have them rely on specific spell effects like the Psychic does the rest of the time, but with a more limited effect list than the Psychic.

    3) I could take a procedural approach to generating the patron, by asking the player a series of questions that lay out different elements of the patron mechanically. For instance:

    What does your patron expect of you? (This defines an XP trigger)
    What boon does your patron grant you? (Choose a domain, get a spell or piece of equipment related to that domain)
    How does your patron reveal their glory? (Choose a domain, any direct interventions by your patron will fall within that domain)
    How does your patron make their will known? (Choose a domain, any explicit communications from your patron will be characterized by that domain)

    And so on. A gradual expansion of the narrative elements that in turn defines the mechanics.

    I recently did some digging through the Complete Arcane 3.5 Warlock to get a feel for where it actually started, and things like pact and patron are actually massively over emphasized in later versions (especially because in 4e that was how they gave them character options).

    Here's the blurb:
    Born of a supernatural bloodline, a warlock seeks to master the perilous magic that suffuses his soul. Unlike sorcerers or wizards, who approach arcane magic through the medium of spells, a warlock invokes powerful magic through nothing more than an effort of will. By harnessing his innate magical gift through fearsome determination and force of will, a warlock can perform feats of supernatural stealth, beguile the weak-minded, or scour his foes with blasts of eldritch power.
    Adventures: Many warlocks are champions of dark and chaotic powers. Long ago, they (or in some cases, their ancestors) forged grim pacts with dangerous extraplanar powers, trading portions of their souls in exchange for supernatural power. While many warlocks have turned away from evil, seeking to undo the wrongs of their former colleagues, they are still chained by the old pacts through which they acquired their powers. The demand to further the designs of their dark patrons, or to resist them, drives most warlocks to seek the opportunities for power, wealth, and great deeds (for good or ill) offered by adventuring.
    Characteristics: Warlocks harbor great reserves of mystical energy. The font of dark magic burning in their souls makes them resistant to many forms of attack and arms them with dangerous power. Warlocks do not wield spells, but they do learn to harness their power to perform a small number of specific attacks and tricks called invocations. Warlocks make up for their lack of versatility by being tougher and more resilient than sorcerers or wizards.

    * * *

    Background: Warlocks are born, not made. Some are the descendants of people who trafficked with demons and devils long ago. Some seek out the dark powers as youths, driven by ambition or the desire for power, but a few blameless individuals are simply marked out by the supernatural forces as conduits and tools. The exact nature of a warlock’s origin is up to the player to decide; just as a sorcerer is not beholden to the magic-wielding ancestor that bequeathed his bloodline with arcane power, a warlock is not bound to follow the source that gifted him with magic.
    Warlocks are not half-fiends or tieflings by default (although many creatures of those kinds become some of the most powerful and terrifying representatives of the class). The mark that the supernatural powers leave on their servants is often a mark in the soul, not the flesh. In fact, many warlocks are created by nonevil powers— wild or fey forces that can be every bit as dangerous as demons or devils. Whatever their origin, warlocks are widely feared and misunderstood. Most are wanderers who rarely stay in one place for long

    Underlined emphasis mine.

    I think for a PbtA style Warlock, I would actually give them very few actual moves. And then to mimic Invocations I would give them the ability to pick up more and more "I do magic at it" type moves that basically allow them to use one of the few moves they have in a new and interesting way. I might even call it "Do magic at it" or maybe something a bit goofier like "I do horrible, dark, eldritch magics at it"

    Wishlists! General | Gaming | Comics | Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
    WACriminal
  • ToxTox I kill threads Punch DimensionRegistered User regular
    Basically Warlocks be like:
    SBS345345-BLACK-POST.jpg

    But with magic instead of science.

    Wishlists! General | Gaming | Comics | Twitter! | Dilige, et quod vis fac
    AuralynxWACriminalSlacker71Shadowen
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    Platy wrote: »
    I feel like a way to get around the "you can't really affect the world" problem of Vampire would be to make the game more personal, more about the stories of the PCs - smaller-scale conflicts get emotionally magnified when they're about you or your character. For example, trying to find a thief who stole from a shop can get boring quickly, but it's different when that thief stole from you.

    The hunger thing seems to enable this to some degree

    I might be wrong since I've never personally played any edition of Vampire

    making the game more personal and small-scale is basically Requiem's whole thing. You can absolutely do that with Masquerade (first edition Masquerade, before the Sabbat, was absolutely this - it was a game of city politics and night-to-night survival) and V5 makes it easier by kind of stepping back from some of the worldspanning stuff like Gehenna and the Jyhad, but after years of supplements and novels the global conspiracy stuff is pretty well baked into its DNA at this point, for good and bad.

    Requiem takes the core ideas from 1st edition Masquerade - cities, Ventrue, Nosferatu, revolutionaries vs the establishment - and wipes the slate clean of the rest. It's just that for some people it's too clean.

    MsAnthropy
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    Warlocks are more like paying off their sugar daddy demons for power

  • WACriminalWACriminal Dying Is Easy, Young Man Living Is HarderRegistered User regular
    Tox wrote: »
    WACriminal wrote: »
    New player is joining the party before the heist starts. They want to play a warlock, so I'm looking for ways to translate the feel of a D&D warlock into this homebrew system. Some thoughts I'm having, in no particular order:
    1) XP is the meta currency in this game. I could utilize it to represent the tempo of "curry favor with patron" vs. "spend favor to use powers" by giving the player XP triggers related to their patron, and strong moves that require XP to activate. The problem with this is that there are obviously other ways to gain XP, so the player could straight-up ignore their patron's demands and still fuel their abilities, mechanically speaking. I could introduce a second meta currency for this player specifically, but I don't want to get too far down the book-keeping rabbit hole here. XP-as-favor is also a problem because other players will eventually be gaining XP-fueled abilities and equipment, so over time the Warlock would stop feeling like their own thing and just like everybody else.

    2) I want to lean into the PbtA ability for more narrative abilities here by allowing the patron's intervention and support to be a little more freeform, but I want to put limitations on it so that it's not just, "Roll +Charisma to delete any problem." I'm thinking I may give the player a list of possible domains, and let them select 3 as their patron's portfolio. Then, all of the Warlock's powers, interventions, and requests must be related to that portfolio. So for example, your patron's portfolio doesn't include healing, which means you can't replace that arm you lost no matter how much favor you have with your patron. However, you did select the artifice domain, so maybe you can get a prosthetic limb. Or maybe you selected the grave domain, so now your severed arm tags along with you as a zombie minion. Or maybe you chose the animal domain, so if you please your patron enough they may send a monkey companion to help you with tasks that require two hands. Basically, limit the kinds of solutions the patron can provide, and thereby limit the problems those solutions can address. My main worries with this approach are that it might be too powerful (why would you ever need another move besides patron intervention, if you chose your portfolio carefully?), and that it may be too cleric-y and not warlock-y enough. I could limit direct patron intervention to once per chapter to address the power level, I guess, and have them rely on specific spell effects like the Psychic does the rest of the time, but with a more limited effect list than the Psychic.

    3) I could take a procedural approach to generating the patron, by asking the player a series of questions that lay out different elements of the patron mechanically. For instance:

    What does your patron expect of you? (This defines an XP trigger)
    What boon does your patron grant you? (Choose a domain, get a spell or piece of equipment related to that domain)
    How does your patron reveal their glory? (Choose a domain, any direct interventions by your patron will fall within that domain)
    How does your patron make their will known? (Choose a domain, any explicit communications from your patron will be characterized by that domain)

    And so on. A gradual expansion of the narrative elements that in turn defines the mechanics.

    I recently did some digging through the Complete Arcane 3.5 Warlock to get a feel for where it actually started, and things like pact and patron are actually massively over emphasized in later versions (especially because in 4e that was how they gave them character options).

    Here's the blurb:
    Born of a supernatural bloodline, a warlock seeks to master the perilous magic that suffuses his soul. Unlike sorcerers or wizards, who approach arcane magic through the medium of spells, a warlock invokes powerful magic through nothing more than an effort of will. By harnessing his innate magical gift through fearsome determination and force of will, a warlock can perform feats of supernatural stealth, beguile the weak-minded, or scour his foes with blasts of eldritch power.
    Adventures: Many warlocks are champions of dark and chaotic powers. Long ago, they (or in some cases, their ancestors) forged grim pacts with dangerous extraplanar powers, trading portions of their souls in exchange for supernatural power. While many warlocks have turned away from evil, seeking to undo the wrongs of their former colleagues, they are still chained by the old pacts through which they acquired their powers. The demand to further the designs of their dark patrons, or to resist them, drives most warlocks to seek the opportunities for power, wealth, and great deeds (for good or ill) offered by adventuring.
    Characteristics: Warlocks harbor great reserves of mystical energy. The font of dark magic burning in their souls makes them resistant to many forms of attack and arms them with dangerous power. Warlocks do not wield spells, but they do learn to harness their power to perform a small number of specific attacks and tricks called invocations. Warlocks make up for their lack of versatility by being tougher and more resilient than sorcerers or wizards.

    * * *

    Background: Warlocks are born, not made. Some are the descendants of people who trafficked with demons and devils long ago. Some seek out the dark powers as youths, driven by ambition or the desire for power, but a few blameless individuals are simply marked out by the supernatural forces as conduits and tools. The exact nature of a warlock’s origin is up to the player to decide; just as a sorcerer is not beholden to the magic-wielding ancestor that bequeathed his bloodline with arcane power, a warlock is not bound to follow the source that gifted him with magic.
    Warlocks are not half-fiends or tieflings by default (although many creatures of those kinds become some of the most powerful and terrifying representatives of the class). The mark that the supernatural powers leave on their servants is often a mark in the soul, not the flesh. In fact, many warlocks are created by nonevil powers— wild or fey forces that can be every bit as dangerous as demons or devils. Whatever their origin, warlocks are widely feared and misunderstood. Most are wanderers who rarely stay in one place for long

    Underlined emphasis mine.

    I think for a PbtA style Warlock, I would actually give them very few actual moves. And then to mimic Invocations I would give them the ability to pick up more and more "I do magic at it" type moves that basically allow them to use one of the few moves they have in a new and interesting way. I might even call it "Do magic at it" or maybe something a bit goofier like "I do horrible, dark, eldritch magics at it"

    This is good stuff. I think the player is specifically wanting to play a later-version style of warlock, with emphasis on the pact/patron, but I hadn't even considered the possibility of this being a pact that was made by an ancestor rather than by them specifically. I need to hash out the details on this with my player a bit more.

  • gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    Oh, the tactical wizardry that is my players.

    Orc raiding pattern drops three spheres of darkness, completely covering the four way undersection of the Underdark tunnels where this encounter takes place. Their war party tactician then orders them to back up. I figure the players will realize the fact they're about to get hammered and retreat up the tunnel until the darkness fades.

    Nope! Straight into the magical darkness to confront the orc assassins who can see in said magical darkness. Each assassin gets 2 attacks a round, and the tactician gives them an extra one as a reaction.

    Then they wonder why they run out of healing after combats so fast...


    GrogPolaritienever dieSlacker71Shadowen
  • ElddrikElddrik Registered User regular
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    One thing I will always appreciate about White Wolf and Vampire is that it's a major game line that actually cares - in ways ranging from thoughtful to goofy - about stuff like fashion and subcultures (especially goth and metal, of course, but other ones too) that tend to fall outside of the traditional geek-culture sphere. If it had never come along, every modern-day RPG would have one clothing option: khaki cargo pants with a calculator holster ("because why would you ever need anything else?").

    This is a thing that I did not appreciate about Cyberpunk 2020 as a kid, but do appreciate now.

    Roughly the second half of the Chromebook 4 supplement is all about fashion, different styles (complete with full-page art examples of multiple people wearing different instances of the style), pricing and descriptions for basically every kind of clothing your character could possibly want. (And of course, as a nerd kid, my reaction was "why would anyone care about this, but at least I guess there's prices for armored clothing".)

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  • astrobstrdastrobstrd So full of mercy... Registered User regular
    I liked the 13th Age Dark Pact and Ancient Secrets line about Warlocks. Wizards study hard for the test and memorize everything, Sorcerors show up 10 minutes late and ace it without trying, and Warlocks just sleep with the teacher.

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  • MrMonroeMrMonroe Registered User regular
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Platy wrote: »
    V5 the way Tube talks about it sounds really really cool

    Not to short-sell what Tube is doing, but V5 or any White Wolf game played by adults with a social conscience and self-awareness is way better than a White Wolf game played by people who haven't fully developed those things. There's a lot of potential in what White Wolf lays out, but people who only see a tiny "I get to beat guys up as a Werewolf," / "I get to be a sweet edgelord vampire," fraction of it are a poor ensemble to realize it with. They're also the average audience for the games, which is problematic.

    honestly I thought the main audience for VtM was people who had grown bored with their usual kink Meetup groups

    MatevGrey GhostDer Waffle MousKwoaru
  • Crimson KingCrimson King Registered User regular
    patrick stuart's silent titans, an osr game set in a time-fractured version of northwest england where the players have to dig through the crystallised brains of slumbering machine gods, is out this month i think

    the only kickstarter i have ever subscribed to

  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    I really love the Shadowrun PC games but the more I look into the tabletop game the less I think I would enjoy it

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  • Grey GhostGrey Ghost Registered User regular
    Also this group that I've played like 4 sessions with, that I was hoping could be a long term campaign, will now have 7 more sessions and then be done because the DM is moving away

    He's compressing the arc he planned out to get to some of our big character stuff at least, but I'm feeling a bit like I got the rug pulled out here

    QRK7dOP.gif
    PSN: GrahamCR | 3DS Friend Code: 4399-2068-5090 | Switch Friend Code: SW-7440-9863-2027
  • Albino BunnyAlbino Bunny Bad Opinion Haver Registered User regular
    Elddrik wrote: »
    Jacobkosh wrote: »
    One thing I will always appreciate about White Wolf and Vampire is that it's a major game line that actually cares - in ways ranging from thoughtful to goofy - about stuff like fashion and subcultures (especially goth and metal, of course, but other ones too) that tend to fall outside of the traditional geek-culture sphere. If it had never come along, every modern-day RPG would have one clothing option: khaki cargo pants with a calculator holster ("because why would you ever need anything else?").

    This is a thing that I did not appreciate about Cyberpunk 2020 as a kid, but do appreciate now.

    Roughly the second half of the Chromebook 4 supplement is all about fashion, different styles (complete with full-page art examples of multiple people wearing different instances of the style), pricing and descriptions for basically every kind of clothing your character could possibly want. (And of course, as a nerd kid, my reaction was "why would anyone care about this, but at least I guess there's prices for armored clothing".)

    It also was just a huge boost to playing a less overt solo.

    Like my combat bad ass wears a long coat and a kevlar weave scarf she can pull up over her face rather than anything approaching combat gear. Similar to Chromebook 1 having a section that is just 'here's the combat furries and people who body mod to look like orcs' it's a great mixture of blending sub culture stuff in with some actually valuable mechanical options.

    JacobkoshElddrikElldren
  • AuralynxAuralynx Darkness is a perspective Watching the ego workRegistered User regular
    MrMonroe wrote: »
    Auralynx wrote: »
    Platy wrote: »
    V5 the way Tube talks about it sounds really really cool

    Not to short-sell what Tube is doing, but V5 or any White Wolf game played by adults with a social conscience and self-awareness is way better than a White Wolf game played by people who haven't fully developed those things. There's a lot of potential in what White Wolf lays out, but people who only see a tiny "I get to beat guys up as a Werewolf," / "I get to be a sweet edgelord vampire," fraction of it are a poor ensemble to realize it with. They're also the average audience for the games, which is problematic.

    honestly I thought the main audience for VtM was people who had grown bored with their usual kink Meetup groups

    Historically this is probably at least partially-true!

    Space... what is the point of it? You have no idea.
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  • expendableexpendable Silly Goose Registered User regular
    edited April 9
    gavindel wrote: »
    Oh, the tactical wizardry that is my players.

    Orc raiding pattern drops three spheres of darkness, completely covering the four way undersection of the Underdark tunnels where this encounter takes place. Their war party tactician then orders them to back up. I figure the players will realize the fact they're about to get hammered and retreat up the tunnel until the darkness fades.

    Nope! Straight into the magical darkness to confront the orc assassins who can see in said magical darkness. Each assassin gets 2 attacks a round, and the tactician gives them an extra one as a reaction.

    Then they wonder why they run out of healing after combats so fast...

    I mean, many doctrines say that when you're ambushed a solid tactic is to attack into the ambush with as much fervor as you can muster in the hopes that it'll force them to break off.

    But the tacit assumption in the tactic is that you're under an active ambush right at that moment. I can think of no military doctrine that suggest seeing an ambush coming and gleefully walking onto the dying ground to engage the enemy on their own terms.

    expendable on
    Djiem wrote: »
    Lokiamis wrote: »
    So the servers suddenly decide to cramp up during the last six percent.
    Man, the Director will really go out of his way to be a dick to L4D players.
    Steam
    3clipse
  • WheatBun01WheatBun01 Face It, Tiger Registered User regular
    I'm still kinda running into the issue where I know dozens of people who love to play tabletop games but very few willing to DM. I've ended up DM'ing again, but I have my eyes open for any games that start up locally I could hop in on. I tried joining a couple of Discord based games but the experience was honestly pretty unpleasant or they'd just burn out really fast.

  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero Registered User regular
    Three sessions in on the Starter 5e campaign, and im doing so, so poorly as a DM. I'm just having the worst time RPing the NPCs. Also i think the beginning of combat is a little dicey for me, particularly when one side is trying to surprise the other.

    Steam
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  • MatevMatev Cero Miedo Registered User regular
    These things take practice. You’ll get more comfortable with it with time.

    "Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
    Hail Hydra
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  • 3clipse3clipse I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    DMing is very much a learned skill. No one starts off as a great DM.

    Biggest piece of advice? The rules, particularly with D&D, are guidelines. Don't let yourself get hemmed in by them!

    I mean, I'd take Nick Offerman's spikey cat dick willingly
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